I know this is meant to be a casual conversation and this topic can get deep fast, but I’d love to hear everyone’s elevator pitch for their religion or lack thereof. peace and love<3
No. I don’t understand why anyone is, really. The whole idea is so weird.
No, but I try hard not to be an asshole about it. People can believe what they want as long as it isn’t directly hurting someone.
Personally I find religious studies fascinating simply because of the influence it has had on culture both locally and worldwide.
No, I’m not religious. There’s no elevator pitch, because it doesn’t need one.
Yes. I was raised in an agnostic family (I’m French, and in France agnosticism is very dominant) but the idea of the existence of a creator always seemed like a certainty for me. I searched myself for a time, and I’m now very active in my (French equivalent of mainline Protestant) community. I’m not sure it’s the “right” religion, I’m not even sure there’s such thing as the “right” religion, but it gives me a framework to developp my spirituality while giving me the freedom to question everything. It’s a sweet spot that makes me happy.
Wow! That’s so interesting! Have you ever thought about what would need to happen to confirm or deny that what you believe is the “right” religion?
Unless I radically change my mind, I don’t believe I’ll ever consider any religion to be the true, one and only. For me, religions are like languages; none is necessarily truer than the others. A chair is no more a chair than a chaise, or a silla, or a 椅子. Languages don’t capture reality, but each allows us to interact with it. However, it’s important to master at least one, and for that, you have to practice it diligently, work on it, and study it.
For me, spirituality is one of the essential needs of human beings. It’s therefore important that everyone seeks the spirituality that resonates most deeply with them. There are non-religious spiritualities, and there are even spiritualities that deny being spiritualities or religions when they are in fact (as I move also in Leftist circles, I don’t see much difference between Marxism and a religion…). If we deny ourselves our need for spirituality, then we risk giving a religious character to something that shouldn’t be. It’s often not a big deal, but it can become one, and I see in this one of the roots of political extremism (my nation is a god, my race is a god, my favorite politician is a messiah, this book of political theory is sacred, this other nation is a devil, this other politician is a demon…).
The ideal, then, is to find a spirituality that suits us without ever essentializing it. We don’t all have the same level of spiritual need, and some fulfill their need by following a sports team. Good for them! But if we have a stronger need, then I think we should turn to a religion. Religions offer unparalleled depth, an opening to the unseen that makes the spiritual aspect of other human realities seem bland: someone very active in a religion can then go into politics, for example, keeping politics separate from religion.
Of course, the opposite is unfortunately also possible. Some movements are explicitly or implicitly both religious and political, but that’s a very bad idea. I ground my political action in theology, and I apply my political ideals to the way I participate in my church’s governing bodies, but I keep my affiliations separate. What must be avoided is thinking that one’s spiritual current holds the truth. But by practicing one’s religion as a truth, by practicing its full depth, then one can improve one’s life and the lives of others.
I was born in China, I remember very early on, I was taught the concept of 命運 (fate), 投胎 (reincarnation), 上天 (the heavens) 睇住你 (are watching you), and 報應 (karma)… lot of that stuff.
My mom told me that if I “waste food”, i’d 畀雷公劈 (get stuck by lightning by the “god of thunder”; or some bullshit like that)
A lot of Chinese drama has those spiritual themes
One time I was like: “so what religion are we?”
Then my mom was like 道教 (Taoism), but I was so confused like I thought it was 佛教 (Buddhism)?
So idk what ever the fuck their “religion” is?
My mom always said “唔可以全信但唔可以唔信” (you can’t believe it all, but you also can’t no believe any)
And she also told me the story about the tale of man that was “waiting for god to save him” when it was flooding" and said that guy was stupid
I used to believe in Santa, then I found out my uncle was the “Santa”, so yea I just stopped believing. I used to believe in ghosts cuz all the Chinese ghost stories in media, but then I stopped believing.
I read a lot of Western Atheism stuff… Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins… so I believed less and less…
I still sort of hang on to the reincarnation thing as a sort of copism, well not the karma stuff, but more as in “matter cannot be created or destroyed” so it must be recycled, that sort of way…
We weren’t able to see atoms for a long time, maybe there’s a “soul” that we cannot yet measure? (I know atheists are gonna say I’m being silly xD)
Like the “fate” thing is just so bizzare. I wasn’t supposed to be born as a second child during One Child Policy, so I feel like “maybe ‘god’ intervened and saved me?”. So bizzare, I wasn’t even supposed to exist.
edit: typos
Religion is abuse.
Do you actually believe that all religion is abusive?
It’s mind rot
Indeed.
No. I used to be agnostic but it relied on this idea that humanity was overall essentially sensible and large groups would not just believe some bs and then pass it on to their kids and it would keep going. I kept up this belief besides the evidence of obvious cults and such. The real nail in the coffin was the internet age and things like qanon, flat earthers, anti vaxers, anti maskers, etc. etc. Just how easily and quickly people whole heartadly believe bulltrump has brushed away any fence sitting I had left and I now recognize that the universe is wysiwyg.
No. I convinced myself I was until I was 16 or 17. It wasn’t compatible with my worldview and it was completely unscientific.
What about your worldview was incompatible with religion? Secondarily, do you think there is any religion that might be compatible with your worldview?
I’m not, but I kind of miss the community connection and discussion of life wisdom that religion serves.
I’ve thought about trying to go to a universalist Unitarian service sometime, since I’ve heard they dont really care if you are a more secular person, they’re not a Christian church, and welcome folks of all sorts of world views
What type of community were you a part of before you chose to walk away?
Oh eons ago I was raised nondenominationally christian. My missing those things is less a reflection of having had them in the past, and more a reflection of having much less access to community in the present. I dont think I really appreciated those things about church when I was a kid, and while it wasn’t a bad experience (except when I joined for adult service, which bored me to tears), I don’t really want back the same kind of church experience I has when I was little. It was lots of kids activities that snuck in ideals about how to be a good person and worship practices.
But I have a circadian rhythm disorder that limits my ability to get together with other people cause everyone’s asleep for the bulk of time I’m awake, so connection to other people is precious to me. I’d love to find a way to participate in that kind of fellowship and discuss how we strive to be people we can take pride in and build good lives and communities for ourselves
I understand why human connection would feel so important when it’s scarce like that. have you been able to find any groups to join that have filled that need?
Nope… I dont buy into modern mythology.
I consider myself Buddhist. Im not a particularly good Buddhist and im not an asshole so I generally keep it to myself.
When I was a teenager 20+ years ago I learned as much as I could about it. I wasnt ready to commit to anything so I carried on as an atheist, but I always felt that if anyone got it right, it was Buddha. If youre going to have a spiritual/religious philosophy, being devoted to the elimination of suffering seems like pretty much the best central concept you could go from IMO.
Im particularly drawn to Soto Zen. Theres a straightforwardness to it and zazen that makes sense to me. I really do need to sit zazen more regularly though.
Reincarnation seems interesting except I hate the “you shouldn’t desire anything” aspect…
like… what if its wrong? Why the fuck shouldn’t I get to enjoy my current incarnation?
There’s nothing to say you can’t enjoy life. Buddhism teaches mindfulness, which encourages you to appreciate where you are. There is joy to find in simply appreciating your circumstances, rather than striving for things like material wealth endlessly. It teaches escaping the treadmill of accumulation which ends up controlling us. By grasping interconnectedness, possession is left behind, and we liberate ourselves from suffering.
Thats my understanding, anyhow. Ive got a long way to go still.
Would you be willing to share why you feel so drawn to Soto Zen?
I read Hardcore Zen by Brad Warner at a fairly young age and liked his characterization of it. Like I said, it has a straightforward, practical quality to it that I appreciate. Most of what ive read on it since (im currently reading The Three Pillars of Zen, which is also from a Soto perspective) emphasizes discipline more than “religious” practices, which appeals to me. Im not much for religious ceremony or ritual, but i can understand discipline and practice. Even if I often fall short.
Yeah. I didn’t use to be but now I am, and I’m very happy about it. And why? Because God guides whom He wills, I guess. 😅
Because God guides whom He wills, I guess. 😅
And fuck everyone else, right? Including literal children with terminal cancer.
Sorry kids, God didn’t will it. You gotta die painfully at 4 years old.
? God guided me so I have an opportunity not to damn myself and end up in Hell. Cancer is just another feature of this imperfect universe (if you want it differently, you have to go to Heaven), and these kids have pure souls and will meet the Creator and enjoy peace. Of course we mourn them because they left us, but just like in the case of adults, we have to make peace with the fact that every day is a gift and without God making this entire universe we wouldn’t even have had a second of consciousness, so be grateful. And haven’t you heard the story of Abraham? There’s a way to process the death of your child better, but it’ll take faith in God.
Also, everyone else? My man, all the information is freely available and you even have silly folks like me online trying to direct people to a better path… you’re already being helped, you’re already bombarded with calls to be mindful of God. When the Day comes and you stand in front of Him, don’t say you were not warned. 🤷
It’s funny that you think shit like this is convincing.
It’s like telling an adult that one day Santa Claus is going to judge us.
Just stop. Grow up. Put away your childish beliefs and join the real world.
🤷
That’s Awesome! How long have you believed in God and how did he meet you?
Eh, I would say about 4 or so years in earnest but by then I was already a big fan of the words of Jesus and Solomon, I just disregarded the parts that talked about God, lol. And through my now wife, although it was more circumstantial: she’s Muslim but not like a preacher who “convinced me”, we had even reached the middle ground of me doing the rites but not believing… and then one day it clicked. 👍
No.
When I was a kid my mom send my sister and I to bible camp. I spent time with friends and I didn’t shun the one kid with a developmental disability like everyone else. Not for any particular reason I just got along with him as well as my other friends.
Those motherfuckers gave me a TROPHY.
Looking back it was the beginning of the end of my religious journey. Now I just make the best of it with my fellow normies.
😳
Nope. Wasn’t raised religious. It’s pretty common where I come from.
Nah, catholic church was very boring and always seemed like a scam to me as long a I can remember. Also Occam’s razor. I’m not an evangelical atheist though: that seems like a waste of time and effort.











