- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
[ifixit] We Are Retroactively Dropping the iPhone’s Repairability Score::We need to have a serious chat about iPhone repairability. We judged the phones of yesteryear by how easy they were to take apart—screws, glues, how hard it was…
You must log in or register to comment.
“Why don’t you buy Apple products?”
Me: Gestures broadly at this:
Ever the innovators, Apple introduced a new dimension to repair that our scorecard simply didn’t account for: namely, that you could take a highly repairable design like the iPhone 14, install a genuine Apple replacement screen or battery, and then… it fails to work. Following the correct procedure was no longer enough.
Today, you need one more thing: a software handshake, using Apple’s System Configuration tool. It contacts Apple’s servers to “authenticate” the repair, then “pairs” the new part to your system so it works as expected. Of course, it can only authenticate if Apple knows about your repair in advance, because you gave them the exact serial number of your iPhone, and they’ve pre-matched it to a display or battery. This is only possible if you buy the screen or battery directly from Apple. Forget harvesting parts—which is a huge part of most independent repair and recycling businesses. It’s also impossible to pair any aftermarket parts—which means only Apple-authorized repairs can truly restore the device to full functionality.
deleted by creator
Ever the innovators. Just not how we the consumers envisioned it.
Innovation on how to make consumers more miserable
I think calling it DRM is incorrect. I think Apple and its audience belief you should be able to tell if a replacement part could be counterfeit, and possibly have a security vulnerability as a result. However, it should be a one-time notice that a user can dismiss and continue using the phone’s complete functionality.
For example, if someone replaces a camera module, Face ID could technically be compromised. That said, the security for Face ID is on the device itself, and replacing the module with a third-party one, as long as they was made aware it may not be as secure as the original part, let them do what they want with their own device.
EDIT: If it were me, I would want to know a part in my phone is not directly from Apple, but I would still want the ability to determine if I want to continue using the phone like that or straight up replace it. It should be the user’s decision.
However, it should be a one-time notice that a user can dismiss and continue using the phone’s complete functionality.
Hmm, I broadly agree with the idea that users should be able to dismiss these warnings and repair their devices however they want, but I’d imagine a dodgy repair shop would just press ‘OK’ on the counterfeit part warning before handing it back to the client.
Not sure what the solution is - maybe a screen in the settings that can list all parts warnings so an owner can view it after a repair? That relies on people actually checking, but at some point users need to show some responsibility for verifying a repair was done correctly if they’d care.
Not sure what the solution is
Email the warning to the user’s Apple account? Put the warning behind the faceid lock?
Why does the notification have to be on the device and/or accessible by the repair shop?
Great idea - I like yours better than mine.
I was just using an example, but I was thinking something closer to a device “security status” section in the settings app.
Apple actually already sort of have it — you can go to settings and check whether any repairs/tampering happened on your device. That is I believe a correct approach - you can always check after a repair/second hand buy whether their claims are true, yet it is maximally usable.
Do what Google does when trying to grant far reaching permissions to another account. Show a non-dismissible banner or nag notification constantly for 10 days, and then allow the user to dismiss permanently. It’s the best of both worlds. It makes it impossible for the user to miss, even if a shady repair shop tries to cheat them with aftermarket parts, but it gives the user a reasonable course to permanently dismiss any warnings.
We almost need a new term for this, because Digital Rights Management (DRM) is usually for digital media. I’d almost want to call this Physical Rights Management, since it’s controlling our right to physically repair and swap parts.
It’s called “right to repair”, if I’m not mistaken.
Right to repair is the term from the consumer perspective. I’m talking about a term for the anti-repair locks that Apple is putting in their products (since DRM doesn’t quite fit, though it’s close)
deleted by creator
Well at least now we get to feel the same way John Deere customers feel
Come on, say it with me
“You will own nothing,”
I can understand Apple refusing to do repairs under warranty, or even invalidating a warranty, if someone has broken their phone after digging around inside without knowing what they are doing, but bricking a phone the person owns through a software lock is absolutely insane and stinks of attempts at service capture and fighting right to repair laws.
Yet another reason I’ll never give them a penny.
Fairphone gang rise up!
I can’t even imagine that. Modifying your device DOES NOT void your warranty. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that the modification caused the failure.
I get that, and I don’t want to use cars as a good example because they aren’t, but even car manufacturers have less restrictive policies than Apple is pushing here.
It would still be wrong to invalidate the warranty for the reasons you give, but it’s still better than this.
In EU, there’s a separate warranty on software and hardware.
deleted by creator
Completely understandable.
The way I often describe it is if I was wanting to buy a mid-range phone with the technical specs of a fairphone, I’d buy something cheaper with the same specs.
But if I’m happy to spend over £600 on a phone - which imo is absolutely at the luxury end of pricing - then I’m looking more at overal quality, and the combination of repairability, fair(er) sourced materials, etc, makes it better.
However why anyone would spend a grand plus on a phone is absolutely beyond me.
For a lot of people, their phone is the most useful and frequently used device they encounter in their day. Forking over a lot of money for a luxury version is less insane when seen from that context.
Yep, spend your money where you spend your time. This applies to basically everything.
I’m also a big believer in investing in quality items for anything that touches your body all the time—clothes, chairs, sheets. It is one of the most effective strategies I know for self care.
You’re missing the point completely.
This hardware DRM shit is just plain evil. Was considering an Iphone next year for the first time, but going to nope right out of there.
Almost everything apple does nowadays is a marketing front, repairability, privacy, not including chargers, accessories and removing the headphone jack for the sake of the environment, and more to come.
Apple isn’t alone in not providing chargers. My S23 Ultra didn’t have one in the box.
But your S23 Ultra also uses the most common cable type for a charger. That isn’t proprietary. That you likely already have a good several of.
-
If by “charger” you mean the brick that plugs into the wall, which I hope you do because it’s the only thing that Apple omits from the box, then Apple also uses that same cable type (USB type C). It’s only the other end of the cable that is proprietary. And the cable itself is included with the phone.
-
All of this is moot for the iPhone 15 pro and non-pro which are fully USB type C.
Wait… Wait, what? The new apple type-c cable has a proprietary end to it?
What the actual fuck? It’s not just the standard USB-A? WHY?
No, it is usb-c - usb-c, like literally every phone produced in the last few years.
Sorry if my post was confusing. The first point was referring to cables for iPhones before the latest iPhone 15 models — previously, you’d get a cable that was standard USB-C on one end, and Lightning (the proprietary connector) on the other. You could use those cables along with any standard USB-C charging brick to charge the phone. My point was that the charging brick does not need to be proprietary, and the proprietary part (the cable) was included with the phone.
All iPhone 15 models use completely standard USB-C and come with a C to C cable in the box.
-
I think it’s a bit dishonest to imply this is the only reason they do things.
Privacy? I’d like to think that’s more than a marketing front considering how much data is actually worth.
Otherwise I totally agree with you
Actually, the whole Privacy part is one of the biggest gimmicks Apple has ever pulled.
Sure, it doesn’t allow Meta and Google to not allow data collection, but research indicates Apple continues to collect the same amount of data. In the long run, I’m sure that Apple would also use this data to serve ads in their own way, just that they’ll call it “iAds”, and fanboys would cream their pants
just that they’ll call it
AiDS
Bullshit - what “research”? Apple is in no way comparable to goddamn Google and Facebook here. Their ad sector is pretty much “display my app in the AppStore search if they search for similar things” and things like that, that only uses the actual search term, and very basic stuff about the user. They can make relatively much money on that, because they artificially own the whole “Apple market”, so they don’t have any competition there. They don’t fingerprint you across the whole internet, that’s for sure.
Before calling Bullshit on people, you could’ve done a simple Web search.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2204.03556
I don’t think Apple is comparable to Google and Meta, yet. Allow them sole ownership of data on the phones, I don’t expect that to hold true in a few years.
You don’t think apple sells and uses your data?
Source for the love of fuck oh my god
God forbid someone ask for the factual backing to a claim being made.
Stay mad lolololol
I mean it was a simple search engine away.
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-privacy-data-collection/
I’m sorry you bought into Cupertino’s bullshit. I know it was very expensive.
Yeah, google will return something for “covid is a hoax” as well, that doesn’t constitute a proof.
Also, from your very own article: “Broadly speaking, it collects a lot less information than Google or Facebook and has backed up its claims that it is privacy-focused”
Sorry I require people to back up their claims with evidence. Surely encouraging a culture of not backing anything up with proof will help with being the masses not knowing about these things.
Sorry you’ve been taught that you can just say thing and be believed. What’s the authoritarian lifestyle like?
Anyway, did you even read your own evidence lmfao. I’m gunna guess not and refrain from rebuttal so you can find a different source. If you did read it, lmk and I’d be glad to debate why this article outlines exactly why apple handles privacy the best and with very little concern when compared to any other phone provider barring custom builds and OS’s and what little information it does capture is less than what’s being exfiltrated during credit reporting bureau data breaches. Of which 2 of the major world providers have now been hit, one of which impacting 2/3 of Americans.
sImPlE sEaRCh AWaY bRo
That’s why I used “Almost”
Privacy wise, Apple marketed its move as preventing apps from tracking you, when in reality what it did was make the Unique advertising id they have Made themselves Available to Apps Null if you opt out of tracking. It is like removing the harm they put in place by themselves .
(+) it doesn’t prevent app tracking as it can be done using other means and unique identifiers. They have lied about the scope and potency of this measure. while average Joe doesn’t care to verify their claims.
I’m gonna need some source for that last point, but I concede on what you’re saying for the first bit. When you say Privacy instead of “the advertising id debacle” it’s a bit confusing as privacy is a very large category and covers many other topics which they did not create but do protect against if we’re going to be fair and unbiased in our criticism.
It’s as much a “harm they put in place themselves” as website cookies are - these are technical artifacts that were maliciously used. It is just not arguing in good faith to claim they made it for tracking purposes - it’s like basic software development practice to create some unique IDs, and it has plenty useful roles.
And consumers “punish” Apple for these unrepairable devices by buying new iphones in record numbers.
Until consumers hurt Apple in the ONE place it cares - it’s pocketbook - hope is lost on changing them.
But consumers are like lemmings. We see this in pre-orders for videogames and folks who proudly are buying the latest crop of obnoxiously priced videocards, or in the car industry where some consumers paying way over sticker just so they can have the latest new model.
And then we wonder why companies seem to have us bent over.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
apple people buy every new phone because they have massive FOMO and don’t want to be “shamed” by appearing poor by having an “old” phone.
Apple has created a cult of weirdos obsessed with spending thousands in service of their company for imaginary status and clout.
That might be true for some.
I genuinely just love iOS.
I got the 2nd iPhone, then the 5, got a 6 plus used, then got an SE2, gave that to my daughter, now I’m rocking a 12. This 12 was a gift from a friend or I wouldn’t be using it.
I won’t upgrade until I absolutely have to.
I honestly just genuinely prefer iOS to android.
And then their computers. If you were using a Mac with system 7, you can use a Mac today. Old folks suffer with change. Every new windows they move stuff around and make it impossible for old people (like my poor uncle who is still looking for “my computer” constantly).
My daily driver is Linux, but I love MacOS as well. I still use my 2012 power mac to record music because it’s what I know and love. If I needed to do more I’d get a newer used Mac.
Some people just like how it works and the fact that it’s been consistent for decades.
The average person buys a new device every 3 years.
It’s the new keeping up with the Joneses. We can’t afford houses or new cars so what’s next?
To be fair, I’d have no idea why you’d want a brand new car anyways. They are inferior to older cars and just help with creating more waste.
A few years ago it was major safety upgrades for me. I do agree generally that buying new just because is not a good thing. In the next few years though I suspect it’s going to be a gas cost thing with a large switch to electrics. (Where I live the cost of gas has risen 60 cents in the last 2 months against a national average increase of 10 cents.)
Asian makes and models have always gotten great gas mileage to begin with though, especially within the last thirty years. Hybrids for the most part have only brought good gas mileage to american manufacturers, but even then the Asian ones are still better than this.
That being said though, there’s no real evidence that hybrids are significantly better for the environment considering many drivers still use combustion for propulsion along with the fact that the electricity in the battery tends to be charged on coal power.
Electric cars are the future, but the state of electric cars right now are a serious mess due to manufacturer greed.
Oh yeah I’m not going to pretend electrics are perfect. Just that it’s going to go that way.
Your two options are a repair ability nightmare with worrying privacy problems, and another repairability nightmare that may be slightly more repairable but is still a nightmare. Oh, and it is a privacy hellhole. The Fairphone is great, though, & seems to check all boxes
I really wanted to use the Fairphone to replace my old model, but unfortunately eOS doesn’t play well with the corporate apps I need to run for a daily driver phone. I tried Lineage just to see what I could do with it and had similar issues, all due to Google “security”. Not at all unexpected but I was hoping I could work around it all. Ended up having to send it back at the end of my return window and settle on having all my data harvested on a phone that while not as bad as Apple isn’t super easy to get parts for or get into the thing (Zenfone 10). Which sucks.
Maybe when I don’t need to rely on work stuff in my personal phone I can find a solution here, but until then I’m just the loud annoying guy yelling at clouds.
Curious what kind of apps can’t you run? Are we talking 2FA apps? Banking apps? NFC stuff?
Everything is bundled, and you have to choose the bundle that works the best for you. For many people, that’s Apple devices.
I’ve owned Apple laptops for the last 10 years or so, because I find that they work for my needs. Do I wish they’d open source (or at least document) their non-standard hardware choices, so that their hardware would have easy Linux compatibility? Sure, that’d be nice.
But in the meantime, I like their trackpads, their audio hardware can’t be beat (at least on MacOS, I wish we could get this stuff working right in Linux), and I like their HiDPI displays, low-power CPUs/GPUs, and form factor. Yes, I have to trade off a lot of things to get here. But going with another device would involve other tradeoffs. So I think Apple is worth the tradeoffs for my laptops, not worth the tradeoffs for a phone (although every year I get more and more dissatisfied by the Android offerings).
When other consumers don’t weight the same tradeoffs the same way you do, it’s not because they’re “lemmings” or whatever.
I’m all for breaking up some of these bundles by law (requiring greater interoperability/repair, etc.). But until they do, consumers will need to make their decisions in the circumstances that exist, not the ones that they wish existed.
They’re actually quite easily repairable, with the right tools and knowledge. I quite enjoyed working on them while I worked in that industry. You don’t need all the heavy tools Apple send you as part of their odd program, you can use a regular spudge to get the phone open, IPA to dissolve the adhesives, and there are third party suppliers from which you can source parts.
And if you don’t want to go through all of that, that’s entirely understandable. That’s why you can also go to third-party repair shops that have these tools and supplies to be able to perform these repairs.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize these things and Apple proper without stretching the truth. “Unrepairable” is not an applicable term here.
Edit: you’ll have to forgive me. I’m used to people in my life bitching that the things they don’t understand being “unrepairable”, everything from smartphones to Volkswagens, when in reality it just requires some know-how and the right tools. The VIN locking is new to me, and it’s really shitty.
Except they VIN lock everything. If you execute a screen swap on 2 brand new phones perfectly, the result is a crippled phone.
There’s plenty of underhanded tactics Apple employs.
Check out Hugh Jeffreys’ content on this.
Yep… and they put those weird DRM locks on more and more components every new release.
I’d wager 80% of all new product design costs are purely apple researching how to make them even more consumer unfriendly and DRM laden.
Did you read the article?
for now, we are only rescoring the iPhone 14. We are not retroactively rescoring earlier iPhones at this time. If we did, their scores would also likely decline.
I don’t get it. They finally recognized that the score does not reflect reality, leads to wasted money and frustration, and then they don’t apply there newfound insight to products already affected? To me that seems somewhat dishonest.
Seems to me that it took a huge amount of time and resources to reach the new score, and I’m guessing they don’t have the budget to do the same for every model
I’m guessing they don’t feel the time to do a fair re-review is worth it on older devices with less, but higher than 0, new users.
Most people who are interested in those devices already have them, so a change in score doesn’t really make a difference.
This should be illegal. We legislation that force repairability and open repair methods (anti-drm).
So what’s the new solution in place of DRM to make sure that the things you make aren’t ripped off by China or any other rich competitor?
What’s to stop the big players that are already seated in their thrones from abusing and stealing shit from the peasants?
How does forcing a company like Apple or John Deere to allow their customers to repair their own products lead you to think China isn’t already ripping off every bit of tech they come across?
Listen, I’m pro right to repair, but I’m against solutions that cause more problems for the average Joe.
I also did not say what you’re claiming, that’s your interpretation. Of course China commits mass IP theft left and right, but do you think it would be easier or harder for them to do it with DRM removed?
That’s my point. We cannot afford to make hasty solutions, there is plenty already at stake for regular ass people in this world run by the rich and powerful.
Your mistake here is in assuming removing DRM isn’t trivial. As someone who’s pirated games for literal decades I have enjoyed many a DRMed game on launch day. DRM is security theater just like the chumps at the airport who routinely are found to be missing 99% of contraband.
This is really interesting to me, how easy is it to remove drm? How reliable? Just lookin for some convo, not arguing as I don’t really know much about cracking games, movies etc
Generally DRM removal tools are written by hackers dedicated to hacking DRM or pirating software. So for people who specialize in that field, they are very good at it and can defeat basically any DRM system.
For an end user, that means all you need to do is to download the specific tools for your use application, run it and presto the DRM has been removed.
An analogy would be you buy a product that is locked inside a box. You can learn how to pick locks yourself, or you can take it to a locksmith and have them remove it for you, which is trivial because that’s all they do.
If you are expecting a bunch of Lemmy users to explain to you in ELI5 terms the technical underpinnings of how a lock works and how to defeat one, well lol that ain’t going to happen.
Yes I am aware that hackers are the ones who crack and make tools and then sell to users.
Thanks anyway, shouldn’t be that hard to explain if it’s trivial to do
Should also know pretty easily how reliable the technique is if it’s done so often, I’d let the original person I was talking to reply instead of interjecting your smart ass response.
So what’s the new solution in place of DRM to make sure that the things you make aren’t ripped off by China or any other rich competitor?
This you?
Yes those are my words but the interpretation was wrong.
Of course China has high IP theft rates, everybody knows that. Look at how hard they keep pushing this god damn shopping app I keep seeing.
My point (that you’ve probably read over and over and willfully chose to ignore at this point so you could make a pedantic argument) was that removing DRM would only make it easier for them.
However one person brought up removing DRM was super trivial - still waiting to hear back on those details to confirm if that was “just talk” or not.
If it’s already trivial to remove, then yeah getting rid of DRM wouldn’t make things easier for them, and thus we wouldn’t be making things worse.
…which brings us back to the quoted material - what solutions in place of DRM, that would be more protective and less trivial to remove thus making things HARDER to be stolen from.
People forget what stage of the game we’re in. The rich are now ULTRA rich. You can’t stuff that cat back in the bag less you literally tank the economy. You have to protect the little seedling people and chain the rich up (so to speak of course) to slow down their endless growth.
We have a runaway reaction going on in my opinion and we all know what happens to “closed systems” and their entropy levels (metaphor, yes that has to do with physics specifically, but I find the parallels to be interesting)
DRM does not prevent them stealing the technology they are only there to maximize profit. Everything is basically manufactured in China so the know-how is already overseas. Copyright laws already exist to prevent complete rip-offs.
If a shock absorber of my car breaks I have the freedom to choose the quality/type of the spare part (Genuine/OEM/used or aftermarket supplier) and who performs the repair (Dealer/local repair shop or myself). That’s healthy competition and it should be the same for electronics.
Agreed but again, I ask my question.
Do you think the removal of DRM would make things easier or harder for China.
That is my point. If you can’t answer the question that’s fine but I don’t wish to discuss side topics or metaphors. Making things easier for thieves is bad mkay.
This is like asking if using left handed threaded screws would make it easier or harder for China. They’re already the ones manufacturing all the components and the device itself. Removing/adding a step in the process doesn’t change anything.
DRM hampers legitimate customers / repair without actually doing anything against piracy.
You’re making sweeping generalizations
Asks a sweeping general question
Gets a sweeping general answer
pikachu shocked face
I asked if it would be easier or harder for China to steal content with DRM removed from the beginning.
That’s a pretty specific question but alright.
Somehow a yes or no answer is acceptably answered with “they already do that all the time” which completely avoids the original question which was, again, if it would be easier to do so or not.
Uhhhh, it wasn’t already zero?
It was at 7/10 because the iPhone 14 introduced a repair-friendly design that made it, in theory, easier to repair than most competing high-end smartphones. However, the fact that there is a software DRM on the parts you install makes this repairable design completely useless for the end user, it just makes repairs cheaper for Apple themselves, thus adding insult to injury.
That about wraps it up
Apple puts weird DRM on everything.
They even have DRM on the Hall Effect sensor that detects when the lids closed on their newer laptops, so you cant take one from one laptop and put it in another.
The fucking hall effect sensors.
Its nothing but a fancy magnet that turns your screen off when you close the lid, a thing that costs pennies, and they had to engineer their own version to have DRM and bullshit.
Apple would DRM the battery cells and the chassis if they could.
Don’t give them ideas
Apple branded electrons, Straight from your Apple branded generator! Exclusively for Apple products!
Um, isn’t that exactly what MFi (Made For iPhone) did with branded or licensed chargers and cables?
Think different!
Honestly, Apples entire business model always meant they should rate a zero. It’s been about making tech disposable for 20 years. Any “repairability” by them is at best a marketing strategy.
Powermacs were user serviceable back when security bits were uncommon. Once you got over the hurdle of buying like a $40 screwdriver, you could service them entirely yourself.
I’d go so far as to say the earlier iPods were user serviceable. Everything past the iPhone 4 though was a steady downhill without a doubt.
I wouldn’t call requiring a 40 dollar screwdriver a positive sign. If anything it was an early red flag as to their intentions.
Oh no, it definitely wasn’t, but it was a hell of a lot better than what apple fans are facing now
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
My wife used to complain about my green bubbles until I reminded her that I didn’t choose that color for her. Apple did.
That score of 4 is still very high… I feel, it should be closer to 1…
If you looked at the scoring then you wouldnt spout such nonsense.
Mate, don’t get your knickers in a twist… You’re getting riled up over nothing here…
The iPhone 14 getting a repairability score of 4 shouldn’t affect you or your life… Neither should some random person online thinking it deserves a much lower score…
deleted by creator
It doesn’t? Why are you dunning krugering?
Should and will be illegal
I’ve been trying to convince myself now that the iPhone uses USB C to swap from Android since Google and the whole DRM bit. To be fair I’m a Firefox user and I know Apple uses a chromium wrapper for Safari or what have you but I am afraid of Graphene OS installation.
With this I just can’t do Apple. Alright all you Lemmies telling me just to try it and so being a wimp, I’m gonna do it.
Why do people care about Apple’s repairability? If you don’t like that your phone is unrepairable - don’t buy it?
Because there are a lot of people out there who don’t know about or understand all this, and I don’t think a regular consumer should be expected to know about weird software quirks to be protected from a company’s rapaciously anti-consumer policies.
But we have a problem in capitalistic markets now. We have dozens different flavors of same thing.
and we dont
Because I love iPhones and iOs, I just wish the ones making them weren’t such asses with their customers.
I’m not doubting this is true given the source, but there are phone repair shops all over my town that repair cracked iPhone screens all the time. How do they make that business work if they have to register something like a screen replacement?
- It’s not talking about screens
- Those people are licensed and using parts directly from Apple, which Apple allows
Read the damned post.
I think you need to go see what Louis Rossman has to say about apples repair state at the moment. Right to repair kinda seems like its essential.
They can pony up the exorbitant fee to get access to the Apple repair kit that lets you work on Apple devices.
Then they register the screen replacement with their privileged access.
It was possible with older phones to just swap out the screen but starting with 10 (iirc) it is no longer possible to do without the tools.
I work as a repair tech for Batteries Plus, on the X and above what usually happens is a notification in the settings app about being unable to verify whatever part is an OEM part and that the service log for the device has been updated. If it’s the battery that is being changed and it’s not paired, it will lock you out of viewing Battery Health information, and if the repair shop doesn’t copy over some data from the original screen then the replacement screen can cause the loss of True Tone. Haven’t experienced a phone completely brick itself because of third party repairs but Apple certainly forces a loss of functionality simply because they want all repairs funneled through them.
