After years of reddit/twitter/facebook propping up fascism/bigotry with algorithms & bots I’m honestly surprised and relieved to be in an online space that clearly rejects their ideology.

They can have reddit/facebook/twitter. AFAIC the only way to reach some of these people is to leave them alone long enough to realize on their own.

Lemmy.world admins are doing an amazing job dealing with everything. Their recent decision to defederate from exploding heads (or whatever its called) really goes to show that they’re in it for the right reasons.

  • @Spectator
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    1671 year ago

    How’s that Nazi bar story go again?

    I was at a shitty crust punk bar once getting an afterwork beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “No. Get out.”

    And the dude next to me says, “Hey, I’m not doing anything. I’m a paying customer,” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “Out. Now,” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed.

    Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “You didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”

    And I was like, “Oh okay,” and he continues.

    "You have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after a while they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

    And then THEY bring friends, and the friends bring friends, and they stop being cool and then you realize, ‘Oh shit. This is a nazi bar now.’ And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down."

    And I was like, “Oh damn,” and he said, “Yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”

    And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.

    -iamragesparkle

    • @zombuey
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      1 year ago

      fuck thats so good so perfectly understandable. When we think about genius we tend to think about mathematicians and physicist working on problems no one else understands. The real genius’s out there though in my opinion are people who understand something so well and so fully they can break down a concept like this. A story anyone can understand.

      • Robust Mirror
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        221 year ago

        Absolutely. I’ve heard if you can’t explain something in a way that a beginner would understand, you don’t know it as well as you think you do. That’s real mastery.

  • @Boiglenoight
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    1661 year ago

    That’s something I noticed when I joined Mastodon as well. When people are in control for the sake of community and not profit, things tend to be better in this regard. Let crazies federate with crazies.

    • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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      1 year ago

      NGL I derive some joy seeing maga/conservative/fascist communities getting all their misinformation downvoted to hell while the only positively voted posts are about the crimes & failures of trump and republicans in general.

      I don’t want them banned. This is much better.

      • @[email protected]
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        521 year ago

        They don’t learn though. While you may derive pleasure from their ignorance, there are some who may get sucked into their worldview who may not otherwise be. Free speech doesn’t require a community to put up with their nonsense.

        • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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          311 year ago

          I don’t derive pleasure from their ignorance. From that I derive migraines. It’s specifically their failure to gain traction here on lemmy that I must admit to a degree of schadenfreude.

          But for real, I’ve lost dear friends to this movement. At this point I’ve simply recognized that the only way to save those people is to be patient and keep an open door in case they do realize they’re being duped. It’s that or drive them further into the cult.

          Thankfully lemmy is not putting up with their nonsense. I don’t actually care if they get banned or not. I can only hope that seeing that their rhetoric only trends in spaces known to be bot-ridden and algo-driven will cause the most rational of them to wake up.

        • @Aux
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          191 year ago

          What does free speech have to do with it? Free speech right guarantees that you won’t be prosecuted by the government for your words. It doesn’t apply to private communications.

          • @RaoulDook
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            101 year ago

            That is true but social media people have collectively made up “freedom of speech rights” on social media without understanding how the technology or the law works at all.

            Terms of Service are all we have online, unless the government is hosting the platform.

          • Tb0n3
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            -81 year ago

            Free speech as a law, maybe, but many people like myself view it as an ideal.

            • @Aux
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              41 year ago

              That’s not an ideal, that’s lunacy.

              • Tb0n3
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                -81 year ago

                Fuck censorship.

                • @Aux
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                  01 year ago

                  Only government can enforce censorship.

  • Dick Justice
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    1 year ago

    Loved the comment from user @[email protected] :

    *"If you want your own unfiltered feed. Create your own instance and don’t de-federated any other instance. All the content in the feed will be available because like email, it is federated, so you only need to subscribe to the feeds. The admins do not control the content. But they do control the instances which they maintain, and rightly so.

    This is NOT A PLATFORM, it is a protocol and you have the choice to engage with it how you want. Don’t like an instance, stop using it. Use another or create your own. You will still get all the content."*

    This is just so well stated, imho. Of course the person TheLurker was speaking to isn’t interested in the content, they’re interested in the users so that they can troll them endlessly.

  • Miqo
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    961 year ago

    I was so fucking relieved to see that lemmy.world doesn’t fuck around with the fascist “absolute free-speech” game. Fucking FINALLY! If I didn’t already have a reason not to return to reddit/Twitter/whatever, this would’ve been enough on its own. Thank you, admins!

    • FlashMobOfOne
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      401 year ago

      Agreed.

      There’s no good reason to platform people who proudly espouse terrorist ideologies, and fascism is 100% a terrorist ideology.

    • Margot Robbie
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      301 year ago

      Well, we learned the lesson from Voat. “Absolute free speech” just doesn’t work.

  • Meldroc
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    751 year ago

    I love how taking out the Trump trash happens so much faster here!

    Over in the old place, getting the admins to do something about right-wing toxicity was like pulling teeth. Flagrant TOS-violating bigotry, hate & disinfo would fester for weeks, months, years while the admins yawned

    At the same time, if people started talking about punching Nazis, the bans and post deletions would start flying instantly, with admins threatening mods & threatening to ban entire subs if they didn’t delete Nazi-punching posts fast enough.

    Gee, you think those admins were biased?

    • @doomer
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      151 year ago

      with admins threatening mods & threatening to ban entire subs if they didn’t delete Nazi-punching posts fast enough.

      Oh hey there, beholdthemasterrace subscriber! That poor mod.

      • Meldroc
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        81 year ago

        Hey!!!

        Is beholdthemasterrace migrating to Fediverse land? I’d love to find them over here!

        • @doomer
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          61 year ago

          I’m not sure. I stopped following it awhile ago, over half of the comments in some of the posts were brigaders.

    • @BigToe
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      -851 year ago

      Wait why are you glorifying banning “trump trash”, free speech should definitely not include banning someone for their political opinions. I am voting trump next election hands down.

      • Meldroc
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        601 year ago

        You don’t get to agree to disagree when your political agenda involves shitting on people’s rights.

        • @BigToe
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          -601 year ago

          Removed by mod

          • @eating3645
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            1 year ago

            The man was selling classified information, it’s not a far left to view his supporters as trash, it’s patriotic.

          • @TheBeege
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            231 year ago

            The issue with supporting Trump is all the dog whistling he does. People in the know understand that he wants to suppress “the bad people’s” rights. People against that know the tolerance paradox and shut down Trumpism immediately.

            People who don’t know the dog whistling wonder why everyone is so upset and continue supporting him.

  • @getynge
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    741 year ago

    While I certainly understand the appeal of “free speech no compromises” the evidence is real clear that any online forum that adopts that mentality invariably becomes a bigoted shitpile, I’m not going to make a choice on philosophical grounds when the reality of the situation makes itself so obvious

    • Bizzacore
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      601 year ago

      Is it a coincidence that every single place that claims to be “free speech - no exceptions!!1!” is an absolute trash fire inside of a rat hole? NOPE. That’s the Paradox of Tolerance proving itself true.

      We need to heed the warnings, and I’m glad the Fediverse exists to do so.

    • @frozengriever
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      411 year ago

      Relevant xkcd for the occasion: https://m.xkcd.com/1357/

      Those “free speech” places just end up degenerating into a cesspool where people who were banned elsewhere end up congregating.

  • @samus12345
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    731 year ago

    The lack of corporate influence is really felt here. Corpos love right-wing fanatics because they make people mad, which encourages engagement with a platform.

    • @illumrial
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      321 year ago

      I’ve really found myself not emotionally engaged when on the fediverse and that’s great.

      • @Mistymtn421
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        151 year ago

        It truly has been such a pleasant experience. I have commented more since the 12th here than I have in a year from the other place.

  • @ZeroPlan
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    571 year ago

    This is the LITERAL first post I saw after signing up. I’m ecstatic and so fucking relieved

  • TwoGems
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    1 year ago

    deleted by creator

    • @khepri
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      1 year ago

      And the idea that debating these people does anything other than platform and broadcast their sickness is destroying both social media and the news. We don’t need to both-sides every issue and pretend that it’s a debate, when it’s people who view certain others as sub-human vs people who don’t. Whether certain groups should exist or have the same rights as the rest of us is not a debate topic and we need to stop treating it like it is.

      • TwoGems
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        1 year ago

        deleted by creator

    • @Holyginz
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      301 year ago

      The idea that everyone deserves a voice no matter how horrific those voices are is an idea that needs to die. Fascists, racists, bigots, nazis, etc. Should never be allowed a “safe space”

      • @Cannacheques
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        -31 year ago

        Direct confrontation usually works well enough and can resolve whether someone is serious or playing devils advocate

    • @suspecm
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      231 year ago

      It’s why there is a general fascist upsurge on the world.

  • @patachu
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    461 year ago

    LOL, the OOP’s username in that linked thread is certainly a username.

    Really appreciate all the human eyes keeping a lookout for this nonsense instead of letting the ragebait spiral in on itself with the algorithms.

    • Backspacecentury
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      271 year ago

      The mod comment is glorious in the replies:

      If it truly gets under your skin that these bigoted spaces are being defederated by the nicer spaces, feel free to join a more right-wing infested instance. Just understand that the rest of the fediverse is not obliged to listen to their lunacy.

      Fuckin’ mike drop.

      • AnonymousLlama
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        -71 year ago

        It’s a pretty good take, but also the defederation ban-hammer seems to get dropped a bit, which seems like it should be the last option, not the first.

        Surely there should be a way to mark content coming in from questionable servers with a tag so that users can choose to see it on their instance, similar to how NSFW posts can be hidden.

        At least that way the content would be federated and things synced, leaving the choice up to the user.

        • @[email protected]
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          101 year ago

          I think the thing you’re forgetting is that users have the autonomy to find an instance (or create their own) that doesn’t filter that stuff out.

          It also seems to me that instances do a good job of describing themselves and it should be pretty easy to get an idea of what they will/won’t allow.

        • PM_me_your_vagina_thanks
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          91 year ago

          Why give the option to indulge in that shit? They can fuck right off and live in their dumb little world with each other.

        • Widget
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          81 year ago

          Just in case users really wanted to see some hate speech mixed in with their regular discussions?

        • smokinjoe
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          51 year ago

          Go ahead and build the feature.

          Until it exists, this is the current solution.

    • Xeelee
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      131 year ago

      That’s the main issue. Corporate social media place “engagement” above everything. This means amplifying hate and bigotry. Once you stop amplifying this shit, it becomes far less prominent and people aren’t caught in a bubble any more.

      • @Cannacheques
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        41 year ago

        I blame bots and newsfeed propaganda. Its gotten worse since Trump

  • Ethereal Zucchini
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    441 year ago

    exploding heads

    I don’t know what that is and to be honest at this point I’m too afraid to ask.

    • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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      671 year ago

      I just heard about it minutes ago and the thread was locked. There will be some sort of announcement.

      But apparently it was a alt-right conspiracy maga white supremist space. A user was commenting here all pissed off that that their repulsive community can’t be forced on everyone like they would their ideology.

    • Admin
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      331 year ago

      The main (ATM) Lemmy instance for alt right fascist types. Pretty much a gigantic dumpster fire of toxicity that prides itself in raiding other instances to propagate their rectal cancer of a worldview. Defederated them on my instance day one, and happy to see the big names doing as much.

    • spicy_biscuits
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      51 year ago

      It’s a Fediverse instance which is notorious for being riddled with hate speech

    • Nepenthe
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      Having seen a sparse handful of comments/posts from them before deciding to exercise kbin’s ability to mute instances…the whole instance seems like a neglected 12yr old’s klan rally, and I normally avoid and look down on political epithets.

      If anyone browsing on kbin wants to know how in general, btw, typing the web address for your instance followed by /d/name-of-instance-you-hate will take you to the home page of that server where you can treat it like a normal magazine/community and block it. Worked wonders for 80% of the porn.

      I have no idea if it works for lemmy. Could always try but I’m gonna assume no, judging from what complaints I’ve seen

  • @AeonThoth
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    401 year ago

    I signed up for Voat years ago when it was online, but the rampant anti-semitism rendered the site unusable.

    • @psycrow
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      171 year ago

      I gave it a try when I was going through my “absolute free speech” phase. I thought it was alright for a couple weeks, but after the people from “/r/coontown” came, i started to question my beliefs. Place immediately went to shit.

    • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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      151 year ago

      I wasn’t fed up with reddit enough back then to stick with voat. IIRC it literally was a reddit clone just with 1% of the content.

        • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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          81 year ago

          Explains a lot. I never saw the appeal but I am not a racist.

          • @saintgadreel
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            1 year ago

            There were a few subreddits that got the axe along with some of the nsfw and hatemob stuff that were neither. Man it was awkward watching Voat rapidly spiral with that massive imbalance. Lemmy seems cool so far, and even if it doesn’t end up top of the list, at least viable alternatives/competition is starting to gain ground on reddit.

            • Ech
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              111 year ago

              Voat got so bad they bullied The_Donald users off the site for not being shitty enough. I almost respect them for that, but yeah, still super shitty.

          • @Guy_Fieris_Hair
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            41 year ago

            I was on voat for like 12 hours. Pretty sure before the racists took over. I didn’t see any of that.

  • @moog
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    371 year ago

    Removed by mod

  • @Olgratin_Magmatoe
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    1 year ago

    We aren’t quite out of the woods yet. /c/ConservativesOnly /c/Maga /c/conservative and /c/prolife are still around here on lemmyworld and spreading bullshit.

    Edit: some were removed after all

    • Antik 👾
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      431 year ago

      Every one of those but /c/conservative are deleted.

      Look the mod/admin tools are limited and we do or best to take care of these things asap but we also don’t want to go nuclear on something without checking it out. /c/conservativesonly and /c/maga had their mods removed a while ago and were up for grabs. that’s why we added the LW_NewModWanted to those communities and asked for new mods. Surprisingly nobody here was interested so now we deleted them completely. They can be recreated on other instances.

      Didn’t know about that /c/prolife one until now though. But it’s gone

      • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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        1 year ago

        First, thank you.

        Second, you guys are ON TOP OF IT!!! Excellent work, you guys are amazing!

        Third,

        Surprisingly nobody here was interested so now we deleted them completely

        HAHHAHAHAH so you saw my comment???

        “FYI nobody is interested go back to reddit”

    • MrCenny
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      341 year ago

      c/ConservativesOnly and c/Maga were removed due to lack of moderation and because the previous moderator(s) were banned.

      • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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        1 year ago

        Holy shit… either that was in the last 10 hours or my lemmy was lagging.

        Props to the admins/mods!

        NGL part of me wanted the banned mod (OptionHome I think) to stay and be our community laughing stock.

        • Antik 👾
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          31 year ago

          He’ll always be, in our hearts

    • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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      271 year ago

      True but have you looked at the vote scores in those communities?

      On reddit they were cesspools but on lemmy they’re laughing stocks. The only posts they can get above zero are antithetical ones pointing out the criminality and incompetence of trump/republicans.

      • @Olgratin_Magmatoe
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        131 year ago

        If the internet existed in Germany in the 1930’s, I wouldn’t take much solace in the fact that the fascists are getting downvoted. They’re getting into power and every day they spread more and more dehuminization and hate.

        On reddit they became cesspools because the admins refused to do anything about their fascism, so I don’t have a lot of trust for the admins of lemmy.

        • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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          91 year ago

          Would you be happier if it was only upvotes? I don’t follow your logic at all.

          • @Olgratin_Magmatoe
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            1 year ago

            I just don’t want fascism/bigotry to be allowed on this instance to begin with.

            • @ConTheLibrarianOP
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              181 year ago

              I get the inclination to want admins to ban them… but not only is that unnecessary (at this point in time!) it’s also a far, far weaker rebuke than the entire community refusing to let them trend.

              We saw how on reddit, banning subs simply resulted in them making new ones.

              At least on lemmy there is visible evidence that no matter what they call their community it will be rejected by the lemmy community as a whole.

              At least here’s hoping!

              • @Cannacheques
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                21 year ago

                Agreed. I have faith that a level headed discussion is usually enough to overcome most hatred

            • @nicholas
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              1 year ago

              Fascism = political viewpoint that I disagree with

              • Antik 👾
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                No, fascism is from the side that pushes their Christian agenda onto people. Decides how they should live their life if they are born with the wrong plumbing, decides if a women should complete her pregnancy even at the risk of her own life and decides what books are allowed at school.

    • @teuast
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      201 year ago

      I checked those out out of morbid curiosity and saw them mostly being trolled by lefties/libs. Warmed my heart.

      • @grue
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        61 year ago

        I’d like to believe that such communities could be allowed to exist as long as they weren’t allowed to become “safe spaces” for misinformation the way the ones on Reddit were (i.e. if everybody defederated with any ones that did). Allowing those sorts of people to post but denying them the ability to stop others from debunking their claims could be more effective than shoving them off into dark corners where they can radicalize themselves undisturbed.

        I’m not sure whether I do believe that, but I’d like to.

    • @nicholas
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      1 year ago

      Genuine question: are you just trying to censor any viewpoint that you disagree with? Because it sure as shit seems like you guys are trying to make this into another left-wing circlejerk where anything even remotely right wing is immediately removed regardless of how level-headed or civil it’s presented.

      • @Olgratin_Magmatoe
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        1 year ago

        are you just trying to censor any viewpoint that you disagree with?

        Nope. I just don’t like fascists/bigots.

      • Meldroc
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        231 year ago

        Oh go back to your own circlejerks. You’ve got plenty. Truth Social, 4chan, Twitter…

        You do not belong here.

        • @nicholas
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          -341 year ago

          You do not belong here

          My crime? Having a different opinion. You sound awfully fascist to me.

          • @gamermanh
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            241 year ago

            Your different opinion is that those who think LGBT people should die should be allowed to spread that opinion

            You are wrong, deal

            • @nicholas
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              -271 year ago

              Except nobody said that, lmfao. Nice try though.

      • @TheBeege
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        181 year ago

        Most people don’t have an issue with old conservatism, as it still had the goal of making the country better.

        Modern conservatism is more focused on contrarianism and depriving various groups of their rights or quality of life. Given the tolerance paradox, people outside of this mindset don’t want to allow discussion in that area to spread.

        Due to this shift in conservatism, communities that, on their face, seem like communities with just a different political leaning have had to tolerate this bigotry.

        • @Cannacheques
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          31 year ago

          I somewhat agree. Though it’s hard to distinguish humour from truth these days.

          • @Cannacheques
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            61 year ago

            Yeah tbh trans discussion isn’t even my space so I’m not even going to get involved. I just don’t want to have an opinion of others lives or belief systems in this case.

            Personally, my only gripe really is that I feel that male bisexuality should be more accepted. Not directed at anyone in particular.

            That’s it really.

            • @nicholas
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              -211 year ago

              Cool. Glad you have an opinion. Isn’t it great that you’re allowed to express it civilly without a horde of intolerant losers trying to censor you for it?

              • Antik 👾
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                1 year ago

                Just by saying that the left “wants to chop of children’s penis” you are spreading misinformation.

                No, the take is this: if someone feels like they are born in the wrong body shouldn’t they be free to do whatever makes them feel better? Should they not be provided with all the mental and physical help to make a decision whatever that would be?

                Ps not everyone is American and those US takes which are “slightly to the right” for you are Hella-right to a lot of us.

          • Meldroc
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            41 year ago

            Removed by mod

          • @dragontamer
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            1 year ago

            Right: “don’t chop off the penis of children”

            What about hermaphrodites where ambiguous genitalia could be damaging to their long-term health?

            IIRC, removal of the inappropriate penis (external genitalia) is the preferred choice in today’s medial science for fixing 46 XX DSD. Which is a pretty simple case of internal-organs are female, the child identifies as a female, but for various mutation/birth defect reasons, she was born with a penis (Completely non-functioning mind you, as all the internal parts are female).

      • @Olgratin_Magmatoe
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        1 year ago

        where anything even remotely right wing is immediately removed regardless of how level-headed or civil it’s presented.

        There is nothing civil about taking people’s rights away, dehumanizing people, and destroying our biosphere. Fascism is inherently uncivil regardless of presentation.

      • @Mistymtn421
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        101 year ago

        I have seen more people with different ideologies beliefs and opinions have actual discussions and civil debates here since I joined then I have anywhere in a long time. I feel safe to comment and share my opinions because even if someone were to disagree and share a different opinion, I know I am not going to get a barrage of mean and hateful replies and messages.

        Prior to 2015, I had friends from many walks of life. Sometimes we’d have some heated discussions, but no one was yelling, being racist, spewing hate etc.

        Since 2016, most of my conservative friends actively eliminated everybody who did not think like them. It was mind-boggling how many people I knew asked who I voted for and if it wasn’t for Trump they let me know I was no longer welcome to be their friend. I didn’t even vote for Hillary and yet it was extremely difficult to even convince them of that. They forgot that there were other people running in the race apparently.

        I think if you stick around long enough you will see many viewpoints and discussions here.