Are you guys tired of the “Material You” design? I don’t really like the huge paddings on everything aspect of it. Also a lot of it feels too flat. What do you guys think?
As a UI/UX designer myself (hobbyist, to be clear), I really like it.
There seems to be this notion in the homebrew/FOSS/Linux community that “wasted space” is always non-preferable. I can see this being true for some people, but I feel like a lot of people are band wagoning this opinion.
It’s pretty universally known and accepted in the design community that padding is extremely important when it comes to helping your brain read and separate content. And to be fair, most non-tech people prefer space and padding in their applications to make things easier to understand.
I can be entirely off base here, but TLDR: I like padding and it’s literally beneficial to helping your brain understand the layout of what you’re looking at better.
personal opinion, i think padding is worse for delineating objects than a bit of colour; or just, like, a line. look at this example - there are four distinct segments on the left, whereas on the right they all merge into one and a half
padding is really useful, yes, but if you put padding on everything then what’s there to be separated?
The one on the right looks like different buttons and that everything is clickable. A quick glance shows you different elements and you can easily find what you’re looking for. An example of form and function working together.
The one on the left looks like a text area showing different symbols. A quick glance shows you a blue area and a white area. Seems like you need that extra moment to find what you want because everything looks the same. An example of function over form.
Cramming a lot of things together isn’t always good (probably it’s just bad in general) because it just makes things confusing and ends up wasting time more than having bigger things but less of them.
Gotta agree. On the left, I’m drawn straight to the secondary set of symbols.
On the right, the “distinct segments” are more distinct to me, because of the colors. Primary symbols, All Clear(?), numpad catch me first. Then I notice the lack of shapes and color on the secondary set of symbols.
meh, i’d say they’re obviously buttons from context (why would a calculator app just have a bunch of random unclickable symbols?). but assuming they don’t immediately read to you as buttons; md3 calc app only has 8 buttons:
AC,(),%,÷,×,-,+, &=.the rest is just exactly the same mess of text randomly laid outedit 2023-08-03: i have now looked at this image on a better calibrated monitor. the numbers actually do have background circles (why did no-one pick me up on this). however, this does prove my point about the complete lack of any contrast on anythinghaving areas is good as it allows the eye to do a sort of binary search: if i want a scientific function i’ll look in the white on blue, operators in blue on white, numbers in black on white; then search for the exact button i want. without that, everything’s an unorganised mess (for instance why are brackets in the same section as operators?), with some functions hidden in the
vbutton at the top rightalso i’ve just noticed - how do the brackets work in md3? do you have to tap the button once to bring up a menu and then tap the bracket you want? or does it automatically insert one based on whether you’re inside a set? if it’s the latter, how does one do nested brackets?
The one on the right has more of a nostalgic feel of physical “buttons”. Then again, it takes up more space so that your capabilities are restricted. Then again, square root, pi etc. - those are all more useful than INV, DEG, & e for me. So I could see where people could go either way, up to personal preference and even more so on the need that they are trying to meet. Although the one on the left just flat entirely wastes 3 buttons worth of space…
The colors are auto-generated from your phone wallpaper. Maybe choose one that is less homogenous :)
Yeah, choose a wallpaper you like less so your calculator doesn’t suck!
Or, just change the color if you don’t like it.
You can also disable the automatic theme generation if you like your wallpaper with a gradient from light beige to eggshell so much :)
There are also preset schemes.
It’s nice to see your perspective on it, you make some great points.
Its funny how the places that I dislike the most (status bar toggles and recently google search) are used often and thus do not need the benefits of reading and content separation. You already know by heart what it says and where they are.
Maybe I would like it more if the big padding would only be used in places where I do not interact often with. This would make consistency difficult though.
Good point but just because you know where certain things are on screen, that doesn’t mean everybody knows. So you have to account for that too. Like design considering that that’s the first time someone’s looking at that screen.
UI dev here. To add to this, good use of “negative space / white apace” is also beneficial in signalling abundance. The more negative space you can afford to “waste”, the more resources you signal to have.
Luxury brand ads are good examples. Compare this Citizen Watch ad (https://images.app.goo.gl/mALYonDz6qzKJjuJ6) to this (https://images.app.goo.gl/sTXzyrFXNDUxR8AR9)
Neither of the images links work?
There’s a fine line between desirable ‘white space’ and too much padding, which Google should probably do a better job at finding.
While you’re here, I’m curious about your opinion on the latest Spotify client design. It feels like they want to bring the desktop design closer to the touch screen client (maybe to reduce the codebase not shared by the projects). Personally, having grown up with Winamp, I find it very uncomfortable how images are dominant in both list and grid views, and how much space is left (really wasted) around texts. I think it’s just a very inefficient interface with way too much useless visual fluff.
spoiler
(the application on the left is a terminal-based client that really only needs a tiny corner on the screen)
Not who you’re replying to, but I don’t like the giant album art menus. Save that for a now playing screen that should still be able to be shrunk down.
My initial reaction was it sucks. It wasn’t great to begin with, but this felt like a major downgrade to me.
Padding sometimes seems like it’s used as a crutch to get around placing stuff more thoughtfully. I agree there’s nothing inherently wrong with it, but it is particularly annoying in feeds where it results in an excessive amount of scrolling
As a UI/UX designer myself (non-hobbyist), there’s UI and there’s UX. What differentiates a good-looking design from a crappy-looking design, most of all, is space (or padding). There are many other factors, of course, contrast being also very important for example, but space is number one. But that doesn’t make a design good, just good-looking, which is a very different thing.
Adding steps to take a common action (turn off wifi or whatever) because you used to have a certain number of buttons and now you have to hide some to add space… That’s bad design. Good looking, good UI. Shit UX.
Space should be added when needed. And you need it, when you do, to make thinks clearer. You shouldn’t add space to make it look better if that’s gonna make the experience worse.
The number one rule of design is that form follows function. You should make things as pretty as possible until you find the wall of functionality, and then you stop. Going from six quick access buttons to four was breaking that wall. You wanna be just on top of the wall. Go to one side, you get a great looking interface people hate to use. Go the other side, you get an interface that’s dense and full of things you want, but looks like a piece of nerd shit.
I’m also tired of people repeating the same copypasted ideas about any new design system out there (as I’m sure most people are when hearing people talk about their area of expertise), but they are not wrong on that regard when it comes to material you. Shit name by the way.
Clarity over density?
Some padding is necessary and important to most good design; that doesn’t necessarily mean all usage of padding is great, or that “more” padding is always better.
It’s one of those “it depends” things. I’ve been working on a pretty data-dense webapp and as time goes on we’ve been shaving bits of padding off and instead relying on elevation and borders to signify the UI hierarchy of the app.
For normie apps where there’s hardly anything to present, I think all the spacing helps people not get overwhelmed as much.
Yep, it all depends on use case. If the goal of the app or site is to wade through data, then extra padding is a waste of space and should be minimized.
Also, if it’s something that you use quite a bit, then I often find the extra padding annoying as well. This is more about the user than the use case. As a user becomes more familiar with the app, extra steps (like scrolling or switching tabs) becomes less desirable than just having a jam-packed screen.
i agree
As a professional UX designer, the padding is the least of the issues.
I’m hoping I get used to it, but I miss more skeuomorphic design. It’s like a designer wanted to push it to be edgy and forgot about real people using it… which describes the bulk of Apple design, too, for that matter. I think we overshot the balance point.
Edit: forgot my real point halfway through commenting: I will say even that isn’t the worst of it, though. The dynamic theming is a bit of a branding nightmare.
I miss the UI from android 4.3… it was so clean and minimal.
I miss TabletUI :(
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Agreed on that count - I like that UI consistency is an option for those who prefer it.
As long as it’s an option, I really don’t care. I like stuff having their distinctive look, but I will never say no to more options, especially regarding customization.
But companies like to brand for, among others, usability and legal reasons. They aren’t going to participate in neutering the brand they have invested so much in. It doesn’t really matter if the user “likes” it because it’s pretty. What matters is if the companies pouring money into app development like it, and if the users can easily identify the apps they want to use. That’s why it has such low adoption.
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Most apps aren’t “choice” apps. Things like banking, transit, etc. I doubt you’d change your bank or refuse to take the bus just because they don’t allow their app to be colored based on a random pixel measurement from a background image. I’ll go out on a limb and guess you’d also not choose an app with that option but fewer features. And if so, I’d like to think you’d be in the limited minority.
Edit to clarify: Good companies, given a choice, will by and large invest in material (pun intended) improvements over a confusing and variable prettification feature with no real usability advantage.
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Because big companies have a lot more on their plate than startups or open source that may or may not pan out.
Anyone with a modicum of skill in observation who has worked in such environments knows exactly why the little guy (especially a little guy with free labor) spends a lot more time or money on less essential UI.
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I’m not upset by it because, like all Google design eras, nearly no one uses it uniformly.
I’m over pastel colors, honestly. I want bold, vibrant colors. At least the option. It feels like Google is stripping more and more customizability with every update.
actually, google is planning to add bolder, vibrant colors in android 14
(but you can already use repainter app)
The dynamic colors are a fucking nightmare. No, I don’t want all my ui elements to be the same color as my girlfriend’s skin tone. And the worst is even if I change it, it resets every update. I also don’t like the new quick access controls in the pull down. This is really the first Android update that’s felt like a flat downgrade for me.
No, not at all. I am really fond of Material You. I think it is a nice mix of modern and playful. The colors are great too. I seek out applications that adhere to the material you standards and allow for using system colors. I have a Pixel 7 and a Pixel Watch. I’m excited to see what Material You looks like on the watch when the Wear OS 4 update comes.
Big fan of material you.
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No problems with that :)
I’m a fan - also I think material you allows for good interpretation/flexibility in terms of branding so that not all apps look exactly the same cookie cutter style.
Design preferences has a tendency to be “cyclical” appearing to be tiresome. That’s fine and an encouraged strength of customisablility.
The issue is unified design language across android devices. Material You attempts to solve this to limited success. But it’s better than the alternatives I’ve seen in the past.
The over-padding (especially default widgets) is something I take issue with but it’s a preference and can easily be adjusted.
Absolutely not.
I’m way more tired of the designs before it, or the apps halfway into the design language but not really. Especially if it is to the point where just using the material you colours you have seperates it, signal comes to mind there for example.
Some apps can keep their design layout but please let me use my material you colours anyways
yeah, i hated material ew as soon as it was announced. so much padding everywhere, and so little contrast - to paraphrase the incredibles: if everything’s orange[1], nothing is. your eyes will adjust to it. i want actionable items to stand out, not be a slightly lighter shade of the same colour. it also looks rather like a fischer-price my first phone interface
i must say, if an app (for example, jerboa) uses material 3, i usually try to look for an alternative
[1] other colours are available, i just like orange
edit: some examples:
with material design, it’s clear what’s a header, what’s a footer,[2] and what each button’s state is.
with all the padding, there’s also less space; leading to less functionality
with material ew, it’s much harder to tell at a glance what each app is, one has to scrutinise the icon rather than just tell at a glance by colour
i also really dislike monet; the way it pulls this horrible washed out sickly pastel colour from a wallpaper and washes it over the entire app. if i just pulled one accent colour, and applied that to, say, the header and main action button, i’d like it a lot more
[2] look at the lack of contrast on that “new post” button
The colors I do like personally, it’s the huge buttons that make me feel like it was made for the elderly lol.
Its nice to see everyone has their own take. :)
i wouldn’t even mind the colours if they didn’t tint the background. tinting solely the main text colour and the main buttons might look quite nice. to be honest though, i just loathe pastel colours in general, so it’s possible that’s influencing my opinion
Huge buttons are a general usability advantage if not overdone. Think about juggling bags while on a moving train and trying to pull out your transit app, for example.
No, I wish more app used it. It’s really fun and looks beautiful.
The only thing I hate about MY is its comically big quick settings. Give me back the Android 11 quick settings and it will be fine (the Internet QS be damned)
If you are not afraid to experiment with some more advanced tools, AOSPMods has options to set the number of quick settings rows and columns, which worked well for me. (I was initially annoyed by this change as well, but I eventually got used to it.)
Definitely not, first of all I love pastel colors and, on the more practical side of things, at least for touch interfaces I do prefer to have some padding: even on larger screens (my current phone is 6.7") I tend to prefer larger and more padded interfaces to avoid hitting the wrong one (and that’s the main reason why I don’t like to type on a phone that much).
So I might even be in the minority but having a control center with larger but less buttons on each page is exactly what I prefer, I don’t mind having to scroll if it’s easier to toggle what I need to.
