• Victoria Antoinette
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    16 months ago

    buying meat today can’t have caused an animal in the past to be killed, since an event in the future cannot cause an event in the past.

    • @debil
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      26 months ago

      Carnist mental gymnastics at its finest.

    • @[email protected]
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      16 months ago

      So hypothetically - if everyone in the world stopped buying and eating meat tomorrow you are of the opinion that the animal ag industry will continue killing animals well into the future without any income or incentive to do so?

      An event in the present (purchasing animal products) will financially support and incentivise people to kill animals in the future.

      Do you seriously not understand this?

      • Victoria Antoinette
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        16 months ago

        Do you seriously not understand this?

        my understanding of linear time, causation, and human behavior has led me to my current position. if you think you know something i don’t, i’d love to hear it.

        • @[email protected]
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          6 months ago

          Did you consider my hypothetical? How does your understanding of causation make sense of that?

          edit: sorry, I didn’t see your other reply.

          • Victoria Antoinette
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            16 months ago

            do you have a plan to accomplish your hypothetical scenario? because, if not, it is moot.

            • @[email protected]
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              26 months ago

              That’s not how hypotheticals work. It’s just meant to expose the flaw in your logic. In this case you’re arguing that demand for a product is not related to supply. That when dvds came out and nobody wanted a vhs player anymore everyone kept making vhs players anyway because ‘that’s not causal’.

              • Victoria Antoinette
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                16 months ago

                you’re arguing that demand for a product is not related to supply

                i never said that.

                  • Victoria Antoinette
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                    16 months ago

                    i also explained that free agent’s actions can only be said to be caused by their own will. that means that “demand” can never cause “supply” (nor, truly, the other way around), since both those terms actually reflect the willful actions of free agents.

      • Victoria Antoinette
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        06 months ago

        An event in the present (purchasing animal products) will financially support and incentivise people to kill animals in the future.

        that’s not causal

      • Victoria Antoinette
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        06 months ago

        if everyone in the world stopped buying and eating meat tomorrow you are of the opinion that the animal ag industry will continue killing animals well into the future without any income or incentive to do so

        that’s a strawman. it is not what i said at all. i’m talking about causation and linear time.

        • @[email protected]
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          26 months ago

          But people wanting to consume animal products is what causes people to kill them. It doesn’t matter if your present want didn’t cause the death of whatever animal you’re eating, it will cause the death of the next one.

          • Victoria Antoinette
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            06 months ago

            But people wanting to consume animal products is what causes people to kill them.

            no, it’s not. the only thing that can be said to cause the actions of a free agent is their own will. you are denying the free will of the people in the industry, but insisting that i be responsible for their actions. if they don’t have free will, then what makes you think i do?

            • @[email protected]
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              16 months ago

              Things are more complex than that, though. Imagine if I need some wood and I come across someone who has an axe. The man has no incentive to cut a tree down. I say to him I will give him three ponies to cut the tree down for me and he agrees. Who has caused the tree to be cut down? Everyone has free will in this situation and I would argue both parties are responsible and share the blame. If either party were removed from the equation the tree would stay standing.

              • Victoria Antoinette
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                16 months ago

                this just isn’t analogous to how the system works, anyway. the financiers are operating with (calculated) risk, and willing to pay for meat from suppliers without a contract in place to sell it. to make this fit your analogy, the woodsman would need to just chop up trees and hope you come buy some wood.

                • @[email protected]
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                  16 months ago

                  It’s not meant to be. I was explaining why two people can be responsible for the same thing without ruining free will.

                  • Victoria Antoinette
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                    16 months ago

                    I was explaining why two people can be responsible for the same thing without ruining free will.

                    but its so disanalogous to how our food systems work that it’s irrelevant.

              • Victoria Antoinette
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                16 months ago

                it’s funny that you say that it’s more complex, then you give an example far simpler than the complexities of our current agricultural system.

                  • Victoria Antoinette
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                    16 months ago

                    your notion that shared responsibility doesn’t exist

                    i also didnt say that.