there’s more than shown here and it’s more than just these users too 😭
if you find the thread don’t piss in the popcorn (brigade) but also please maybe don’t bring it back here i don’t want 400 notifications of entry level “is almond milk milk” vegan discourse
I agree with friendlymessage, but my god is he an ass about it
In my defense: there already was a very deep comment chain before this and the whole thing was just infuriatingly stupid
@[email protected] is an ass about it because commie is constantly all over Lemmy defending the dairy industry in the most asinine and stubborn ways imaginable (with an air of Ben Shapiro’s “facts and logic” attitude), and it’s completely insufferable. They’re genuinely on a similar level to what UniversalMonk was on [email protected]. Every one of their disinformation-laden arguments is trivially debunked with even five seconds of thought, but they speak on it with absolute, unwavering confidence and accept literally no evidence to the contrary when they just make shit up out of thin air (as a cherry on top, they also create untenable comment chains by posting at least two comments in response to every single one of your replies to them). They make Lemmy a worse place by being here.
Can you rephrase their argument? To me it’s nonsense
Commie thinks that milk is just a byproduct of cows existing. Friendlymessage correctly points out that you need to repeatedly get cows pregnant, take away their calves, and feed them to produce milk and nobody would do it if there wasn’t a market demand. In essence, there’s zero situation where milk can be ethically vegan if that’s your ethical framework.
Commie implied that milk was farmed before markets existed and I was honestly baffled
I didn’t have a good grasp of history. apparently we mined before developing agriculture, which is wild to me.
What would mining have to do with agriculture and therefore milk?
mining was the Genesis if trade, but it’s assumed it would have followed trade. I also was mistaken that trade would, therefore, follow animal agriculture.
risking incivility, duh.
it’s an animal product
I never said that
no u
😾 meanie head
Edit: incorrect: You don’t need to keep getting them pregnant, you just need to consistently keep milking them. Milk production continues for as long as it is not left untaken. Definitely not vegan at all.
That’s absolutely incorrect. It’s a significant amount of time, around 10 months, but you have to repeatedly get a cow pregnant over their useful life in order to continue getting milk from them. They will go dry faster if you don’t milk them, but the cycle of pregnant/lactating/dry/pregnant is fundamental in managing a herd.
I stand corrected.
This is btw one main reason why milk is murder, because many of those calves are often killed for their meat. The other reason is that cows stop beeing productive and are killed way before their natural death, since the replacement calves are rdy to go (I think it was something like after 5 years with their natural life span beeing around 25, but I’m not sure if I remember correctly).
A bit oversimplified, but just to add a bit more context why vegans don’t drink milk.
What about plant-based milk such as Soy Bean Milk - would that work as a suitable less resource intensive alternative?
At least 50% of them are killed - very, very few males make it to adulthood.
this is incorrect
“many” is doing a lot of lifting here.
the majority of Castle are slaughtered at full weight. hardly any become veal
The majority of male calves are killed at 18 months for meat (equivalent of about 6 in human age) once they’ve put on enough weight. “Veal” is if they’re killed under 12 months, which is rarer, but adulthood is a couple of years later, and yes, not just many of the calves, almost all of the male ones.
Dairy cows are killed once they’ve been milked for a few years as yields start to fall and become uneconomic. They typically live for six or fewer years, but their natural lifespan would be more than 15.
“Many” isn’t doing a lot of lifting, it’s doing a lot of understatement.
friendlymessage is arguing that if there’s no demand for milk (ie people stop drinking milk), then the production of milk will fall or cease.
I have no idea what commie is talking about
I think commie begins saying that milk is naturally produced during the normal birthing of young. Then gets side tracked by the commercial aspect of milk as a product. Namely, no demand, no product. I could be wrong…