Gen Z/A are good at using tech, but they don’t really know anything about how it works. I work in IT support and it can honestly be a tossup sometimes if the person who doesnt know how to clear their cache is a boomer or not.
Oh no, does this mean Gen X are going to be the wisened graybeards that holds arcane knowledge and seemly executes feats of magic when related to technology?
X and the millennials both had to deal with computers that were computers, it’s the people that grew up in the smart phone/tablet era that have no idea what to do in front of an actual computer…
Even if they just used a live cd for curiosity, it means they know enough about computers to grasp the concepts that make them versatile, and were exploring around the net enough to read about it.
So I’ve been in the DOS/Windows world for at least 30 years. I have never used Linux, but I can configure a Cisco server or switch and stack a rack. Yet I fail your test?
Now I know I am relatively young (just making the cut off to be considered a Millennial). But my parents were very against allowing kids access to the internet but not ani-technology. As a result I was using a 1996 Toshiba satellite when I was 4yr for Scholastic Reader Rabbit preschool games, but didn’t have regular internet access until I was 15. So I am familiar with the eccentricities of Windows 95, this did help me at work once when we had to use some legacy software from the 90’s that would only run on Win 98. But anyway I only recently have started using Linux in Docker containers for testing environments.
More like Millennials. Gen X may have been around for the duration of the silicon boom, but it was largely niche “nerd shit” when they were kids, and only became widely accessible/acceptable to them with the same changes that have left Gen A lacking basic computer skills. Millennials, though, grew up through the full development of PCs and the Internet and had to learn how to navigate them at their early stages, as well as keep up with the rapid changes. It of course still isn’t universal knowledge there, either, but anyone that used a computer regularly through the early 2000s is going to be levels above most people getting into it now.
Tsss, calling me an old nerd on lemmy.
You’re a nerd! You’re on Lemmy!
But yes, i wildly, loudly concur woth most of this thread: my kids can’t be bothered with HOW something works. It just has to work. No interest at all in tcp, udp, whats a bit, byte why is everything in multiples of 8: that’s all nerd shit. And, indeed: my shit. Dad! You’re the nerd: fix this!
I wonder if that’s true. Sewing machines haven’t changed much since they started. Cooking hasn’t either. But, if you’re a computer-using Gen Xer, you can’t still be running Windows 95 or something. You’ve had to keep up with the current tech.
Now, you might be using Windows 11 the same way you used Windows 95, and missing out on some of the newer features. But, I think most people who knew how to debug a networking problem in Windows 95 still can figure out how to do it in the newest Windows releases.
It’s like driving. Yes, older drivers are worse drivers, their eyesight and hearing is worse, their reaction speed is slower, etc. But, cars have changed pretty considerably in the last 50 years, and most older drivers know how to use modern cars. They may not be as good at using some of the gadgets, like the GPS system, as younger people. But, they’ve adapted to keyless entry, push-button starts, push-button windows, backup cameras, traction control, and so-on.
It’s honestly a toss up whether sysadmins know what the fuck they’re doing. I’m working on a deal now that’s hampered by the fact that a Linux sysadmin for a huge finserv company doesn’t know how to administer a Linux system.
This is why the humanities are important: So you learn how to think about a problem and not just rely on someone writing down every goddamn keystroke for you.
Except we’re not dealing with mathematicians. We’re dealing with sysadmins who must read well and quickly to do their job effectively.
They need to comprehend complex technical documents. They need to break things down into principles so they can apply them in novel contexts. They need to understand what the words “could not connect on port 4242” mean.
Except they don’t. They get me on the phone, throw their hands up in frustration, and have me push the buttons for them.
Because they didn’t pay attention in their humanities classes.
My confusion is that a degree in humanities doesn’t guarantee that someone can create clear instructions or follow then. (Nor does a degree in mathematics but at least there is some logic involved)
Being able to express yourself clearly and also read and interpret text is a big part of the humanities. Far too many folks in tech think these are worthless skills to develop and become a pain in my ass.
I’m 2-3 hours from NYC depending on traffic, so… kinda? But I’m pretty happy with my job honestly. I support a niche cloud product that my organization is almost entirely dependent on. Its a union position with good pay and benefits. It can be stressful sometimes and my boss can sometimes be… overbearing, but on the whole it feels like I’ve found a unicorn.
Out of curiosity though, do you have a job posting you’re willing to share? I like to keep my ear to the ground.
That’s awesome to hear. I could tell you’d be a good hire. We do automation contracting. We do lots of logic programming and also have an IT / MSP side of the business (Azure/on-prem domain, email server, cloud, etc.). I’ve been trying out this new app I saw an ad for on the train, advertising for job placement, and started using it the other day.
NYC is one of a number of world cities known by acronyms or nicknames:
Rio For Rio de Janeiro
HK For Hong Kong
TJ For Tijuana
KL For Kuala Lumpur
TO For Toronto
Joburg For Johannesburg
There’s even a whole country that goes by its initials: UK.
So, stop thinking this is some American thing, it’s just a way that people shorten the names of common cities that have a few too many syllables to be convenient.
Gen Z/A are good at using tech, but they don’t really know anything about how it works.
Millennials don’t, either. A tiny fraction of a fraction had technical literacy 20 years ago and now they think they’re top shit because they can write simple CMD commands.
All this jerking one another off is crazy. I work in the industry and I’m surrounded by people my own age who don’t know what Active Directory is much less Linux.
Same as it ever was. The only thing that has changed is accessibility. All these discussions seem to miss that. Most people have not, do not, and will not ever care.
I guess I’m one of the fractions of a fraction. I remember back in the late 90s when that catastrophe of an OS called Windows ME was plaguing our society. Having to manually change registry keys just to make the damn thing recognize a sound card.
It makes me sound old but, kids these days have no idea the kind of hell we went through. If/when I have kids I’m going to start them off with DOS 6 and gradually move them up to current OSes. They need to know the pain we went through.
t makes me sound old but, kids these days have no idea the kind of hell we went through
I mean, whose motherboard still needs a sound card in this day and age? But then I could tell you about fiddling with the settings of an old dot matrix printer. I don’t think that qualifies me to set up a Kubernetes cluster or administer a data lake.
The “you kids today” rants seen to miss how hyper specialized computer hardware and software has become. No, Gen A is going to magically intuit an Azure DevOps Pipeline from first principles. Setting that up feels like I’m working through a Master’s Thesis on arcane file types. People need to stop pretending that knowing a bit of Regex from middle school entitled them to talk shit to a guy ten years their junior struggling with a customized .yaml file.
In sorry but this really sounds like boomer-esque mindset
Why should the younger generation have to go through the struggles of the older generation when those struggles are not relevant today
I’m gen z myself and I’ve changed Windows registry settings to disable stuff like caudiolimiter and change a few other things but I only learned to do that out of necessity
Things should not be forced on people unless they want to learn them, people will only learn things they are interested in
Force them to learn something and they won’t bother actually learning it because they aren’t interested and it won’t stick
This mindset is the same thing as passing down generational trauma to a a younger generation
People don’t need to know how to write a program from scratch to have useful tech knowledge. Knowing basic keyboard shortcuts puts a person above the vast majority of other people in terms of tech literacy.
Gen Z/A are good at using tech, but they don’t really know anything about how it works. I work in IT support and it can honestly be a tossup sometimes if the person who doesnt know how to clear their cache is a boomer or not.
if a 3 year old can use a smart phone it’s not because that child is a genius it’s because the phones designer was.
Oh no, does this mean Gen X are going to be the wisened graybeards that holds arcane knowledge and seemly executes feats of magic when related to technology?
X and the millennials both had to deal with computers that were computers, it’s the people that grew up in the smart phone/tablet era that have no idea what to do in front of an actual computer…
My litmus test is: “Have you tried Linux?”
Even if they just used a live cd for curiosity, it means they know enough about computers to grasp the concepts that make them versatile, and were exploring around the net enough to read about it.
So I’ve been in the DOS/Windows world for at least 30 years. I have never used Linux, but I can configure a Cisco server or switch and stack a rack. Yet I fail your test?
Look up the term “outlier.”
Go back to Reddit asshole.
You first. You’re far more hostile, so that’s where you belong.
You were working with computers since before smartphones existed, that’s a pass of course.
Now I know I am relatively young (just making the cut off to be considered a Millennial). But my parents were very against allowing kids access to the internet but not ani-technology. As a result I was using a 1996 Toshiba satellite when I was 4yr for Scholastic Reader Rabbit preschool games, but didn’t have regular internet access until I was 15. So I am familiar with the eccentricities of Windows 95, this did help me at work once when we had to use some legacy software from the 90’s that would only run on Win 98. But anyway I only recently have started using Linux in Docker containers for testing environments.
Going to be? We already are, along with older millenials.
Only the 10% or so that paid attention to “nerd stuff”.
All the rest are, at best boomer level, at worst smug about being at boomer level.
Based on how often I have to explain very obvious error messages to ostensibly qualified system admins: Yes.
(Though I insist I’m the oldest millennial and not Gen x)
Xennial!
True, late stage millenials are the same kind as Gen Y/A.
More like Millennials. Gen X may have been around for the duration of the silicon boom, but it was largely niche “nerd shit” when they were kids, and only became widely accessible/acceptable to them with the same changes that have left Gen A lacking basic computer skills. Millennials, though, grew up through the full development of PCs and the Internet and had to learn how to navigate them at their early stages, as well as keep up with the rapid changes. It of course still isn’t universal knowledge there, either, but anyone that used a computer regularly through the early 2000s is going to be levels above most people getting into it now.
Tsss, calling me an old nerd on lemmy. You’re a nerd! You’re on Lemmy!
But yes, i wildly, loudly concur woth most of this thread: my kids can’t be bothered with HOW something works. It just has to work. No interest at all in tcp, udp, whats a bit, byte why is everything in multiples of 8: that’s all nerd shit. And, indeed: my shit. Dad! You’re the nerd: fix this!
“Going to be …”?
I feel like I’ve been that graybeard for at least 10 lifetimes. No beginning. No end. Only servitude.
Yes.
Gen X is gonna be the tech equivalent of my grandma who knows everything there is to know about sewing and cooking
I wonder if that’s true. Sewing machines haven’t changed much since they started. Cooking hasn’t either. But, if you’re a computer-using Gen Xer, you can’t still be running Windows 95 or something. You’ve had to keep up with the current tech.
Now, you might be using Windows 11 the same way you used Windows 95, and missing out on some of the newer features. But, I think most people who knew how to debug a networking problem in Windows 95 still can figure out how to do it in the newest Windows releases.
It’s like driving. Yes, older drivers are worse drivers, their eyesight and hearing is worse, their reaction speed is slower, etc. But, cars have changed pretty considerably in the last 50 years, and most older drivers know how to use modern cars. They may not be as good at using some of the gadgets, like the GPS system, as younger people. But, they’ve adapted to keyless entry, push-button starts, push-button windows, backup cameras, traction control, and so-on.
It’s honestly a toss up whether sysadmins know what the fuck they’re doing. I’m working on a deal now that’s hampered by the fact that a Linux sysadmin for a huge finserv company doesn’t know how to administer a Linux system.
This is why the humanities are important: So you learn how to think about a problem and not just rely on someone writing down every goddamn keystroke for you.
humanities?
You spelt Math incorrectly.
humanities?
You spelt Math incorrectly.
People who think like you make my job a lot harder.
How are you supposed to understand instructions when you read at a third grade level?
How are you supposed to do research to understand an error message if you’ve never looked anything up before?
Mathematicians can usually read.
Except we’re not dealing with mathematicians. We’re dealing with sysadmins who must read well and quickly to do their job effectively.
They need to comprehend complex technical documents. They need to break things down into principles so they can apply them in novel contexts. They need to understand what the words “could not connect on port 4242” mean.
Except they don’t. They get me on the phone, throw their hands up in frustration, and have me push the buttons for them.
Because they didn’t pay attention in their humanities classes.
My confusion is that a degree in humanities doesn’t guarantee that someone can create clear instructions or follow then. (Nor does a degree in mathematics but at least there is some logic involved)
Being able to express yourself clearly and also read and interpret text is a big part of the humanities. Far too many folks in tech think these are worthless skills to develop and become a pain in my ass.
Gen Z are good at using tech, gen A are still learning how to use tech
You in NYC area? I’m hiring.
I’m 2-3 hours from NYC depending on traffic, so… kinda? But I’m pretty happy with my job honestly. I support a niche cloud product that my organization is almost entirely dependent on. Its a union position with good pay and benefits. It can be stressful sometimes and my boss can sometimes be… overbearing, but on the whole it feels like I’ve found a unicorn.
Out of curiosity though, do you have a job posting you’re willing to share? I like to keep my ear to the ground.
That’s awesome to hear. I could tell you’d be a good hire. We do automation contracting. We do lots of logic programming and also have an IT / MSP side of the business (Azure/on-prem domain, email server, cloud, etc.). I’ve been trying out this new app I saw an ad for on the train, advertising for job placement, and started using it the other day.
You can have a look at the ad here
NYC = new york city
This is a translation provided for free by me because this user has defualted to american defaultism
To the person I’m replying to, THIS IS THE INTERNET, NOT america
NYC is one of a number of world cities known by acronyms or nicknames:
There’s even a whole country that goes by its initials: UK.
So, stop thinking this is some American thing, it’s just a way that people shorten the names of common cities that have a few too many syllables to be convenient.
If he’s from NYC, he knows what NYC means. If he’s not from there, it doesn’t matter anyway
My dude, he’s from America lol
Millennials don’t, either. A tiny fraction of a fraction had technical literacy 20 years ago and now they think they’re top shit because they can write simple CMD commands.
All this jerking one another off is crazy. I work in the industry and I’m surrounded by people my own age who don’t know what Active Directory is much less Linux.
Same as it ever was. The only thing that has changed is accessibility. All these discussions seem to miss that. Most people have not, do not, and will not ever care.
I guess I’m one of the fractions of a fraction. I remember back in the late 90s when that catastrophe of an OS called Windows ME was plaguing our society. Having to manually change registry keys just to make the damn thing recognize a sound card.
It makes me sound old but, kids these days have no idea the kind of hell we went through. If/when I have kids I’m going to start them off with DOS 6 and gradually move them up to current OSes. They need to know the pain we went through.
I mean, whose motherboard still needs a sound card in this day and age? But then I could tell you about fiddling with the settings of an old dot matrix printer. I don’t think that qualifies me to set up a Kubernetes cluster or administer a data lake.
The “you kids today” rants seen to miss how hyper specialized computer hardware and software has become. No, Gen A is going to magically intuit an Azure DevOps Pipeline from first principles. Setting that up feels like I’m working through a Master’s Thesis on arcane file types. People need to stop pretending that knowing a bit of Regex from middle school entitled them to talk shit to a guy ten years their junior struggling with a customized .yaml file.
In sorry but this really sounds like boomer-esque mindset
Why should the younger generation have to go through the struggles of the older generation when those struggles are not relevant today
I’m gen z myself and I’ve changed Windows registry settings to disable stuff like caudiolimiter and change a few other things but I only learned to do that out of necessity
Things should not be forced on people unless they want to learn them, people will only learn things they are interested in
Force them to learn something and they won’t bother actually learning it because they aren’t interested and it won’t stick
This mindset is the same thing as passing down generational trauma to a a younger generation
People don’t need to know how to write a program from scratch to have useful tech knowledge. Knowing basic keyboard shortcuts puts a person above the vast majority of other people in terms of tech literacy.
For real. I’ve taught people copy paste shortcuts and they act like I’m an alien.