Debatable, it depends on what fraction of the power was supplied by the generator. The chemical-kinetic-electric energy conversion incurs great losses because of waste heat, and portable diesel generators are not always built with efficiency in mind. A charging station operating on 100% diesel to power an EV is much less efficient than a modern ICE vehicle of a similar mass sans batteries.
A charging station operating on 100% diesel to power an EV is much less efficient than a modern ICE vehicle of a similar mass sans batteries.
Citation needed. Do ICE engines not get hot and therefore also have great losses because of waste heat?
Presumably a generator making electricity for a charging station would only run when electricity is needed, while an ICE engine would be losing energy to heat the entire time the vehicle is idling in traffic.
Why would a diesel generator not be made to efficient and why are ICE engines always made to be efficient? How do you know which kind of generator they were using? Why would they use the generator for 100% of the energy needed?
Keeping in mind that this is a hypothetical scenario and that I did point out that the overall efficiency is dependent on how much of the power is generated by renewables and how much by the on-site diesel generator:
An ICE skips the conversion to electricity and its storage. Losses and losses.
An ICE vehicle weighs less than an EV of a similar size because it doesn’t have batteries (see this chart to compare the energy density (MJ/kg, horizontal axis) of lithium batteries to gasoline and diesel)
There is a point in the diesel/solar ratio at which the system’s overall efficiency is higher with an EV than an ICE, but I don’t know where that is because, once again, you’re pissing yourself over a hypothetical scenario.
It doesn’t really matter actually. Electric motors are so much better at delivering power, that you will get more range from a gallon of gas by towing an ‘flat battery’ EV behind a truck and then driving the EV than you will just driving the truck without towing the EV.
To clarify, ICE produce so much waste heat that defrosting and heating your car is essentially free (energetically speaking) because the car needed to dump that excess heat anyway.
BEVs don’t even generate enough waste heat to maintain the battery temp, and frequently rely on heaters to maintain battery and cabin temperature.
So saying BEVs create waste heat too is technically true, but it seriously undersells the scale of difference between the BEV and the ICE.
We actually do. The BMW i3 came with a gas generator as an optional range extender feature. It was not very popular. The majority of drivers drive less than 40 miles a day, and EVs easily encompass that distance, even if you have to run the heat.
And yes, an electric vehicle powered by a combustion motor absolutely is better in terms of efficiency down to extremely small scales. We’ve been using diesel electric vehicles for decades now because of their efficiency, torque, and long service life. They’re called ‘trains’.
We are comparing attaching a diesel engine via a gearbox to attaching it via generator and electric speed controller.
Electrically driven wheels can deliver just the right amount of power at over 95% efficiency. Direct ICE suffers because it cannot always run the engine in ideal conditions, reducing its efficiency.
We do this in locomotives but not in cars because cars need to be lightweight. Actually, nuclear is clearly the best vehicle propulsion, almost infinite range and high power. It is only used in ships due to its weight.
I cant find a source for your claim, the best I could find Was that they can be more efficient under circumstances than diesel mechanic Systems. But it seems to be at least close. Do you have a source you can link?
The reasons theyre the choice number one are different. The Main reason, it doesnt have a Transmission and is easier to repair, while there’s also less parts that can break.
Yeah, I guess a multi-billion dollar logistics operation has purchased expensive less efficient locomotives for decades because they’re physically impossible… Or your armchair understanding of physics is wrong. Wonder which one it is?
We’ve had those for freight trains for decades now. That is also the model for many hybrid vehicles. They are well proven to be more efficient. Also, they don’t need to use the trunk, there’s a perfectly good space available where the less efficient engine used to be.
Freight trains have been using a diesel generator to directly provide energy to electric motors on each wheel for a long time now. The only difference to car hybrids is the train doesn’t use a battery in between.
Last I ran the numbers, it seemed like on paper charging off an industrial scale generator was around 20-30% more fuel efficient per km than directly running an ICE car, but I based it on the advertised efficiency values of a random average seeming diesel car, compared to rather pessimistic charging loss and efficiency numbers for the EV. The inefficiency of even modern ICE cars is quite astonishing, even compared to the engine in a generator that can constantly run at the optimal RPM and load for efficiency.
Debatable, it depends on what fraction of the power was supplied by the generator. The chemical-kinetic-electric energy conversion incurs great losses because of waste heat, and portable diesel generators are not always built with efficiency in mind. A charging station operating on 100% diesel to power an EV is much less efficient than a modern ICE vehicle of a similar mass sans batteries.
Citation needed. Do ICE engines not get hot and therefore also have great losses because of waste heat?
Presumably a generator making electricity for a charging station would only run when electricity is needed, while an ICE engine would be losing energy to heat the entire time the vehicle is idling in traffic.
Why would a diesel generator not be made to efficient and why are ICE engines always made to be efficient? How do you know which kind of generator they were using? Why would they use the generator for 100% of the energy needed?
Keeping in mind that this is a hypothetical scenario and that I did point out that the overall efficiency is dependent on how much of the power is generated by renewables and how much by the on-site diesel generator:
It doesn’t really matter actually. Electric motors are so much better at delivering power, that you will get more range from a gallon of gas by towing an ‘flat battery’ EV behind a truck and then driving the EV than you will just driving the truck without towing the EV.
Doesn’t that highlight the torque that is available and delivered, more than efficiency of the electric motors, charging, heat losses, etc.?
There has to be a better example to prove your point than this.
Nope.
Yes it gets also hot, but the battery as well, during charging and using.
To clarify, ICE produce so much waste heat that defrosting and heating your car is essentially free (energetically speaking) because the car needed to dump that excess heat anyway.
BEVs don’t even generate enough waste heat to maintain the battery temp, and frequently rely on heaters to maintain battery and cabin temperature.
So saying BEVs create waste heat too is technically true, but it seriously undersells the scale of difference between the BEV and the ICE.
We would just put diesel generators in the trunk if any of that would make sense.
No, an electric car powered by a Diesel generator is definitively not more effective than a combustion car.
The thought doesnt even make sense, since a Diesel generator is a combustion engine.
We actually do. The BMW i3 came with a gas generator as an optional range extender feature. It was not very popular. The majority of drivers drive less than 40 miles a day, and EVs easily encompass that distance, even if you have to run the heat.
And yes, an electric vehicle powered by a combustion motor absolutely is better in terms of efficiency down to extremely small scales. We’ve been using diesel electric vehicles for decades now because of their efficiency, torque, and long service life. They’re called ‘trains’.
Holy smokes, is this bizarro world?
Youre arguing against the principle of physics.
What makes a Diesel generator better then … Checks notes… a Diesel Generator?
By your logic it becomes better when it’s used to charge a battery first.
We are comparing attaching a diesel engine via a gearbox to attaching it via generator and electric speed controller.
Electrically driven wheels can deliver just the right amount of power at over 95% efficiency. Direct ICE suffers because it cannot always run the engine in ideal conditions, reducing its efficiency.
We do this in locomotives but not in cars because cars need to be lightweight. Actually, nuclear is clearly the best vehicle propulsion, almost infinite range and high power. It is only used in ships due to its weight.
I cant find a source for your claim, the best I could find Was that they can be more efficient under circumstances than diesel mechanic Systems. But it seems to be at least close. Do you have a source you can link?
The reasons theyre the choice number one are different. The Main reason, it doesnt have a Transmission and is easier to repair, while there’s also less parts that can break.
Yeah, I guess a multi-billion dollar logistics operation has purchased expensive less efficient locomotives for decades because they’re physically impossible… Or your armchair understanding of physics is wrong. Wonder which one it is?
What? Your Argument is that it’s more efficient to charge an EV with a diesel generator than using it to combust in the car directly.
And that’s just flat out wrong.
Im not biting on your fast goal post movement to trains, which makes Zero sense to support the initial Argument
We’ve had those for freight trains for decades now. That is also the model for many hybrid vehicles. They are well proven to be more efficient. Also, they don’t need to use the trunk, there’s a perfectly good space available where the less efficient engine used to be.
We’re talking about charging EVs with diesel generators, which is indeed not as effective as a diesel vehicle.
Even the hybrid trains dont power the electric motor with their diesel Motor. The electric Motor uses excess heat and break energy to get powered.
Freight trains have been using a diesel generator to directly provide energy to electric motors on each wheel for a long time now. The only difference to car hybrids is the train doesn’t use a battery in between.
Last I ran the numbers, it seemed like on paper charging off an industrial scale generator was around 20-30% more fuel efficient per km than directly running an ICE car, but I based it on the advertised efficiency values of a random average seeming diesel car, compared to rather pessimistic charging loss and efficiency numbers for the EV. The inefficiency of even modern ICE cars is quite astonishing, even compared to the engine in a generator that can constantly run at the optimal RPM and load for efficiency.