Harris would have prevented Trump if she actually ran a campaign in line with her voters values.
I choose to blame the ones that are actually in charge of the party. Blaming nameless voters is scapegoating. The party needs to change, we need to demand it instead of giving them an easy excuse.
It was literally Hitler or not Hitler. That should’ve been the only campaign they needed to run. We all saw what happened during his first term and we all knew what he was planning for his second.
That should’ve been all the information needed and anyone who ignored that information is directly to blame for all of this.
It should have been that, but Harris was campaigning heavily to the center and the center leaning right.
Fuck, they basically muzzled Tim Walz during the campaign. Did you notice how he was no longer allowed to call MAGA weird? I sure did.
Then there was the fact that Harris had to run on Biden’s full platform. I know that she personally disagreed with parts, the unpopular parts. She was never really allowed to say it during the campaign.
But really, I mostly blame that little shit Crooks, you either get it right, or you don’t do it at all. Trump used that survival to galvanize his base, and that’s what an election needs to be in this divided world. Don’t worry about the other side. We live in different realities and, they don’t often intersect. You have to focus completely on your own base as much as possible. They’re the one who will actually vote, if you can get them to care enough to do so.
Progressives are consistently more popular in red states than centrist Democrats. I’m living in a deep red state in a rural area and have all my life. I talk to mouth-foaming reactionaries on a regular basis. The difference in our conversations about people like Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris versus people like Bernie Sanders, Zohran Mamdani, and AOC is extremely stark. They never have anything good to say about the former, but always preface their disapproval of the latter with “I agree with some of the stuff they say about [insert progressive policy proposal here], but I don’t think it’s realistic / I don’t agree on their ‘woke’ stuff.”
The centrist strategy of abandoning one’s own values to reach across the aisle to them comes across to conservatives as dishonest and shady (and they’re not wrong). They begrudgingly respect the progressive left for being uncompromising in their worldview, even if they disagree with it, and once you have someone’s respect they are more likely to meaningfully engage with your arguments. That’s how you change minds, and I’ve watched it happen on multiple occasions.
It’s not scapegoating to state the simple fact that when people make a choice, they are responsible for it. Like the millions who voted for Trump, Stein, or stayed the fuck home. You can blame shitty campaigns too but I’m sick and tired of hearing how the voters are fucking blameless. Fuck that. Trump wouldn’t have ever even been on the ballot if our populace wasn’t dumber than a fucking brick. I am going to blame these dipshits and evil fucks for their actions and I absolutely should blame them.
It’s not whataboutism to detail the list of failures from democrats that built the current situation we are in. They are weak party that offers little and provides less, and they fail to win much of anything because of it.
Definitionally, talking about two causally linked things is not whataboutism. You could argue it’s shifting blame, and I would still disagree, but at least it would be coherent.
Oh well, since I have something to prove to you and the thread doesn’t speak for itself I will now spend 30 minutes arguing with you about it. Oh wait it’s not 2019 anymore.
It is a bit academic at this point. I just hoped that liberals contend with the reality that you have to align with your voters, rather than always trying to set blame on the millions that stay politically disaffected.
You are clueless. And you literally commented about 20 times after this so far. Latest of which is you lying your ass off and pretending Harris would be doing basically the same shit as trump with ice. Laughably false. Go away.
I feel like people blaming Harris, and those blaming the voters are talking past each other, and it isn’t at all productive. Just like China and the USA can both be bad, it isn’t an either/or situation.
I understand the frustration from both sides, and I’m also angry at all the dipshits who advocated for non-voting or voting third party in the face of obvious fascism, but I’m sick of seeing this same damn slap fight in every post. We should be focusing on the future, not bickering about the past. If we’re going to build a coalition to defeat fascism—which is desperately needed—we can’t spend our energy relitigating electoral failures, and castigating the disaffected.
Yes, Harris was a flawed candidate, running a misguided campaign. Yes, the people who didn’t vote for her are responsible for our current situation. We have to move on to what we’re going to do now.
I agree, and my comment probably ought to have been directed at OP. I just see you around a lot, and while I obviously empathize with your frustration, I think this line of argument is counterproductive.
The flame of democracy requires vigilance. Based on comments like yours I know democracy was a doomed failed experiment. We really deserve what’s coming to us
it was rigged against her, the voter machines have been found to have been manipulated through starlink, plus many red states stopped counting the moment they were in the lead. the DNC wernt willing to fight fraud at all, it makes them spinelesa nd complicit.
Your attitude is exactly the one that has brought us to the rise of Mein Orangutan, of demanding no more than whatever seems slightly more favorable than the worst case possible.
Advancing conditions for the base of the population would depend on much more than simply voting in national elections for the Democratic Party. In fact, it requires looking beyond the two-party machine, by organizing local campaigns, worker unions, and direct action.
I won’t pat someone on the back who willingly covered themselves in filth and drove everyone away.
How hard is it to just tell Israel to fuck off. They couldn’t even pretend for a few months. Not to mention everything else (billionaires, healthcare, etc). Their whole campaign was basically a shrug with a trite “well what else are you going to do, we are all you have suckers”.
I wanted anyone but Trump, that’s why I still voted for Harris. I didn’t get what I wanted because supporting genocide and the 1% was more important to her and her party then what I wanted.
It’s also telling the language you use. Being against genocide is just a personal view that can be ignored? I guess with you being pro-Israel, the entire election was a win-win situation for you.
I’m rabidly defending the unconscionably simple point that the country of the United States would be in a 1000% better position if the fuckwit MAGAts and the holier-than-thou left could have shut their whine holes for six weeks and made the ultimate sacrifice to vote for Harris.
You “claim” you did, yet here you are continuing to shit on her campaign a year later for what can only be described as rabidly pro-trump reasons. You stand against “they” who “never condemned but actively encouraged” genocide (a provenly blatant lie) so much so that you lent all your public effort to the candidate guaranteed to pour huge amounts of gasoline on the fire.
Congratulations, your genocide is worse now than ever before and the end that is in sight - is the end of Gaza. Well done, you and the Wankshevics of Local 419 have done The Cause proud by narrowly focusing on the wrong thing so intently. So much so that you’re still out here now barking about it. Brilliant.
Eh, you’re obviously not capable of nuance. Just do yourself a favor and tell yourself Kamala lost due to racism or sexism. That way at least you won’t hurt your head thinking too hard.
Harris would have prevented Trump if she actually ran a campaign in line with her voters values.
I choose to blame the ones that are actually in charge of the party. Blaming nameless voters is scapegoating. The party needs to change, we need to demand it instead of giving them an easy excuse.
It was literally Hitler or not Hitler. That should’ve been the only campaign they needed to run. We all saw what happened during his first term and we all knew what he was planning for his second.
That should’ve been all the information needed and anyone who ignored that information is directly to blame for all of this.
Yup, and they literally still fucked it up lol
If by they you mean voters, then yes 💯
Congratulations, the Dems will continue to run corrupt centrist liberal candidates and your mindset is why
It should have been that, but Harris was campaigning heavily to the center and the center leaning right.
Fuck, they basically muzzled Tim Walz during the campaign. Did you notice how he was no longer allowed to call MAGA weird? I sure did.
Then there was the fact that Harris had to run on Biden’s full platform. I know that she personally disagreed with parts, the unpopular parts. She was never really allowed to say it during the campaign.
But really, I mostly blame that little shit Crooks, you either get it right, or you don’t do it at all. Trump used that survival to galvanize his base, and that’s what an election needs to be in this divided world. Don’t worry about the other side. We live in different realities and, they don’t often intersect. You have to focus completely on your own base as much as possible. They’re the one who will actually vote, if you can get them to care enough to do so.
Harris didn’t do that. And that’s why she lost.
She lost because not enough people voted for her. How people interpreted her vibe or whatever is secondary.
Not enough people voted for her, because of how people interpreted her vibe. That’s the point. You campaign to your base, or not at all.
Never try to reach across the aisle, it doesn’t work and drives away the base.
Look at the progressive candidates that have recently won by landslides. They campaigned to the base.
You mean the mayors of solid-blue large cities?
Yeah that was exciting but that’s not going to sell in Boise.
Progressives are consistently more popular in red states than centrist Democrats. I’m living in a deep red state in a rural area and have all my life. I talk to mouth-foaming reactionaries on a regular basis. The difference in our conversations about people like Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris versus people like Bernie Sanders, Zohran Mamdani, and AOC is extremely stark. They never have anything good to say about the former, but always preface their disapproval of the latter with “I agree with some of the stuff they say about [insert progressive policy proposal here], but I don’t think it’s realistic / I don’t agree on their ‘woke’ stuff.”
The centrist strategy of abandoning one’s own values to reach across the aisle to them comes across to conservatives as dishonest and shady (and they’re not wrong). They begrudgingly respect the progressive left for being uncompromising in their worldview, even if they disagree with it, and once you have someone’s respect they are more likely to meaningfully engage with your arguments. That’s how you change minds, and I’ve watched it happen on multiple occasions.
Its a fair point
“She lost because she lost.” Why do you think this is helpful in any way?
It’s not scapegoating to state the simple fact that when people make a choice, they are responsible for it. Like the millions who voted for Trump, Stein, or stayed the fuck home. You can blame shitty campaigns too but I’m sick and tired of hearing how the voters are fucking blameless. Fuck that. Trump wouldn’t have ever even been on the ballot if our populace wasn’t dumber than a fucking brick. I am going to blame these dipshits and evil fucks for their actions and I absolutely should blame them.
Like letting off your war criminals and putting them on pedestals? Seems like an snowball effect to allow your presidents to do anything they please?
Seems like you’re more responsible than you think for the state of things.
Try to make your presidents liable for their actions next time so you don’t have to whine about it on the internet when you don’t get your way?
We’re sick and tired of it too.
Sorry your are tired of It. Your help would be most appreciated. As the saying goes, lead, follow, or get out of the way.
WHATABOUTWHATABOUT
It’s not whataboutism to detail the list of failures from democrats that built the current situation we are in. They are weak party that offers little and provides less, and they fail to win much of anything because of it.
It is always whataboutism to try to shift the conversation to something you think you can argue for more easily.
Definitionally, talking about two causally linked things is not whataboutism. You could argue it’s shifting blame, and I would still disagree, but at least it would be coherent.
Oh well, since I have something to prove to you and the thread doesn’t speak for itself I will now spend 30 minutes arguing with you about it. Oh wait it’s not 2019 anymore.
It is a bit academic at this point. I just hoped that liberals contend with the reality that you have to align with your voters, rather than always trying to set blame on the millions that stay politically disaffected.
Why do you punch down instead of punching up?
You are clueless. And you literally commented about 20 times after this so far. Latest of which is you lying your ass off and pretending Harris would be doing basically the same shit as trump with ice. Laughably false. Go away.
I feel like people blaming Harris, and those blaming the voters are talking past each other, and it isn’t at all productive. Just like China and the USA can both be bad, it isn’t an either/or situation.
I understand the frustration from both sides, and I’m also angry at all the dipshits who advocated for non-voting or voting third party in the face of obvious fascism, but I’m sick of seeing this same damn slap fight in every post. We should be focusing on the future, not bickering about the past. If we’re going to build a coalition to defeat fascism—which is desperately needed—we can’t spend our energy relitigating electoral failures, and castigating the disaffected.
Yes, Harris was a flawed candidate, running a misguided campaign. Yes, the people who didn’t vote for her are responsible for our current situation. We have to move on to what we’re going to do now.
Yep which is why we need to stop hearing about Harris.
I agree, and my comment probably ought to have been directed at OP. I just see you around a lot, and while I obviously empathize with your frustration, I think this line of argument is counterproductive.
I mean it probably is, and I probably could at least approach it more like you if I’m going to engage.
The flame of democracy requires vigilance. Based on comments like yours I know democracy was a doomed failed experiment. We really deserve what’s coming to us
it was rigged against her, the voter machines have been found to have been manipulated through starlink, plus many red states stopped counting the moment they were in the lead. the DNC wernt willing to fight fraud at all, it makes them spinelesa nd complicit.
Your attitude is exactly the one that has brought us to the rise of Mein Orangutan, of demanding no more than whatever seems slightly more favorable than the worst case possible.
Advancing conditions for the base of the population would depend on much more than simply voting in national elections for the Democratic Party. In fact, it requires looking beyond the two-party machine, by organizing local campaigns, worker unions, and direct action.
Yeah, let’s blame lack of advertisement. World would be so much better if everyone advertised better.
Yes. She was impure. Therefore we had to cast her out.
I won’t pat someone on the back who willingly covered themselves in filth and drove everyone away.
How hard is it to just tell Israel to fuck off. They couldn’t even pretend for a few months. Not to mention everything else (billionaires, healthcare, etc). Their whole campaign was basically a shrug with a trite “well what else are you going to do, we are all you have suckers”.
Sorry they didn’t tune the entirety of their election platform to your personal view of the world.
Anyway, you got what you wanted, why are you still bitching over a year later?
I wanted anyone but Trump, that’s why I still voted for Harris. I didn’t get what I wanted because supporting genocide and the 1% was more important to her and her party then what I wanted.
It’s also telling the language you use. Being against genocide is just a personal view that can be ignored? I guess with you being pro-Israel, the entire election was a win-win situation for you.
Sure comrade, I’m all for genocide. Your dumbass mod is spot on.
FFS.
You are the one rabidly defending a few who pushed it knowing it was deeply unpopular, even while knowing Trump was to be the consequence.
They fucked you too you know, they fucked all of us for a foreign genocidal state. Although I’m not sure if it’s all that foreign to you.
I’m rabidly defending the unconscionably simple point that the country of the United States would be in a 1000% better position if the fuckwit MAGAts and the holier-than-thou left could have shut their whine holes for six weeks and made the ultimate sacrifice to vote for Harris.
You “claim” you did, yet here you are continuing to shit on her campaign a year later for what can only be described as rabidly pro-trump reasons. You stand against “they” who “never condemned but actively encouraged” genocide (a provenly blatant lie) so much so that you lent all your public effort to the candidate guaranteed to pour huge amounts of gasoline on the fire.
Congratulations, your genocide is worse now than ever before and the end that is in sight - is the end of Gaza. Well done, you and the Wankshevics of Local 419 have done The Cause proud by narrowly focusing on the wrong thing so intently. So much so that you’re still out here now barking about it. Brilliant.
deleted by creator
This is some serious fuck the /s commentary. Anyone who can see the sarcasm dripping from this comment needs to do some serious self reflection.
Eh, you’re obviously not capable of nuance. Just do yourself a favor and tell yourself Kamala lost due to racism or sexism. That way at least you won’t hurt your head thinking too hard.
So you’d rather pave the way for the beacon or purity that is… Trump?
I mean, he is honest…
He posted with a Bible, so that is rule 1 completed.
He doesn’t make idols, he is one and is made in the image of god, so good enough. (Rule 2)
I don’t think he can remember the name of the lord so that is rule 3.
Rule 4 is every day for him I think.
Rule 5: how better to honor a POS father than being a bigger POS?
Rule 6: He hasn’t killed anybody. (Personally)
Rule 7 is a tough one
Rule 8: Technically he is not stealing. If you make the rules you can just say you didn’t break them.
Rule 9: The white house is fairly sparse on neighbors so I will give this one a pass.
Rule 10: This is also a tough one, but I will go with that his brain is so mushy at that point that it is impossible for him to covet something.
/s of course for whoever needs it.
(/s)