• TrickDacy
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    17 hours ago

    Doesn’t have to be that way and what you’re referring to is mostly applicable to plastic. So disappointing to always see people claiming recycling is useless.

    • hakase@lemmy.zip
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      17 hours ago

      Truth is often disappointing, Chief. All of your plastic is going into landfills in Asia to deflect from corpo responsibility whether it disappoints you or not.

      • TrickDacy
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        5 hours ago

        If you’re going to be an asshole, you could at least have a clue what you’re talking about. China stopped accepting our plastic years ago.

        It’s not the truth that is disappointing me here. It’s people that spread misinformation because they cannot grasp the concept that more than one thing can be true.

      • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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        17 hours ago

        So, that “chief” bit? No need for it. It’s condescending. Remember you’re talking to a fellow human being, default to at least bare civility. It really helps

        • hakase@lemmy.zip
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          16 hours ago

          Condescension is appropriate when matching the energy of passive-aggressive comments like “So disappointing to always see people claiming recycling is useless,” though I notice that you conspicuously didn’t get your panties in a bunch about their comment, eh Chief?

          So disappointing to see people butting in with irrelevant “civility” advice where it’s neither wanted nor needed.

          • grue
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            15 hours ago

            No, condescension is not appropriate. Why? Because you misread what TrickDacy wrote and decided to be both rude and wrong at the same time.

            I’m just going to mostly quote what was said, tweaked just a little bit for clarity, and see if you can suddenly figure it out:

            So disappointing to always see people claiming recycling [in general] is useless [when what] you’re referring to is mostly applicable to plastic.

            All of your plastic is going into landfills in Asia to deflect from corpo responsibility whether it disappoints you or not.

            Do you see it? TrickDacy was talking about people unfairly demonizing recycling in general by incorrectly extrapolating from the case of plastic, and then you tried to rebut that by citing the case of plastic and thus committing exactly the fallacy TrickDacy was talking about. 🤦

            Real persuasive there, “chief!”

      • Zombie@feddit.uk
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        17 hours ago

        Funnily, paper straws aren’t made of plastic that’s being shipped to Asia though

        • hakase@lemmy.zip
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          17 hours ago

          Yup, they’re made of non-recyclable paper that goes directly into the landfill here. Not much better imo, but you do you I guess.

          • TrickDacy
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            6 hours ago

            Alright the more I read from you the more incorrect you get. Paper is biodegradable and only a fucking moron thinks that’s basically the same as plastic.

          • Zombie@feddit.uk
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            17 hours ago

            Do you know what happens to paper in landfill?

            I’ll give you a clue, people purposefully put paper into compost heaps.

            • hakase@lemmy.zip
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              17 hours ago

              Do you?

              I’ll give you a clue: people put it into compost heaps because it breaks down aerobically there. But in landfills the pressure and lack of air causes it to break down anaerobically, causing tons of negative environmental effects from methane, and that’s aside from all of the toxic chemicals treated paper leaches out.

              • TheTechnician27
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                16 hours ago

                Because when I think about environmental pollution, paper straws decomposing anaerobically in a landfill and producing gases that can be somewhat captured (on top of some getting into the environment and decaying aerobically) is what I’m concerned about – not trillions of bits of useless plastic making their way into every nook and cranny of the planet and turning into micro- and nanoplastics that persist over centuries.

                If you give even the slightest inkling of a shit about methane production from your food consumption habits, you eat more plant-based foods; paper straws are not going to put a dent in that. Preemptively: it’s not “whataboutism”, because I’m saying that the alternative is much worse, and citing methane as some kind of gigantic flaw with paper straws compared to just shoveling out billions of plastic straws per day is clearly ridiculous when there are trivial ways to reduce methane by an order of magnitude more than obviously harmful plastic straws will. When given a choice between paper and plastic (while reducing where possible), one clearly wins.

                The person you were replying to clearly understands that the straw doesn’t just magically poof out of existence after a year. You don’t have to condescend to them about methane.

              • protist@retrofed.com
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                13 hours ago

                Paper straws are far and away better environmentally than plastic straws, whether that’s in a compost bin, landfill, or as litter in natural areas. Are you really dying on this hill?

                • hakase@lemmy.zip
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                  12 hours ago

                  No need for me to - the planet’s already doing it for me! But at least the corpos got to create some value for the stakeholders while you blamed consumers, right?

                  • protist@retrofed.com
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                    4 hours ago

                    Our conundrum is how to have a conversation with someone who lacks reading comprehension skills. How did you conclude that from the words I wrote?

                  • TrickDacy
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                    6 hours ago

                    you blamed consumers, right?

                    Wrong. No one blamed consumers here. Other people who don’t think like a chimpanzee are actually smart enough to know that things aren’t so simple. World go boom because human bad is your take. Others with 2 brain cells can understand that we’ve done a lot to fuck the environment and also there are some positive measures taken. But don’t mind us sentient beings who don’t talk about human bad world go boom boom.

              • Zombie@feddit.uk
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                17 hours ago

                Degradation period of paper

                Used paper takes approximately 1 year to degrade under optimal conditions in a landfill.

                Compared with other materials, this degradation period of paper is relatively short.

                For example, plastic bottles can take hundreds of years to completely degrade.

                This highlights that paper is a material more prone to decomposing quickly, which can be beneficial to the environment if managed properly.

                Do you even read sources before citing them or are you so desperate to win an argument that you just ignore the beginning?

                • hakase@lemmy.zip
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                  17 hours ago

                  The decomposition of paper in landfills can have a significant negative environmental impact.

                  When paper decomposes under anaerobic conditions, it produces methane, a greenhouse gas that contributes to climate change.

                  According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, methane released from landfills is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions.

                  In addition to contributing to climate change, the decomposition of paper in landfills can generate water and soil pollution.

                  Chemicals used to bleach and treat paper can leach into soil and water, producing leachate, a toxic liquid that can contaminate groundwater and aquatic ecosystems.

                  Reducing the amount of paper sent to landfills is crucial to mitigating these negative environmental impacts.

                  Is your attention span literally so short that you can’t read past one paragraph?

                  • Zombie@feddit.uk
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                    16 hours ago

                    Oh you mean the bit that’s all hypothetical coulds and woulds, not does? With not a single citation.

                    With the big scary and very scientific descriptor “leachate” and arbitrary paragraph that methane from landfill is a greenhouse gas implying that paper is the sole reason for these things instead of the thousands of other items breaking down?

                    Paper is a million times better than plastic and is gone within a year or so. This doomerism that there’s nothing we can do because it all goes to Asia or landfill anyway so there’s nothing we can do aids nobody.

                    Paper is a far more sustainable material from production to decomposition, with multiple chances of recycling inbetween, than plastic.

                    No straws is better than paper straws. REDUCE, reuse, recycle. And steel straws are better for the average person. But I’ve spent enough time around old and disabled people to see we still need disposable straws that people won’t hurt themselves with, which paper straws are brilliant for.

                    Moaning that some of it will eventually end up in landfill doesn’t aid the cause. And neither does this shitty blog with its bollocks attempt at science.