Useful idiots. They’ll celebrate getting one over on the ‘shitlibs’ if Trump gets into office, because all they care about is having a Great Satan to oppose without having to worry about thinking too much. Who cares about many minorities will die in the process?
Some of us don’t have a choice but to be worried about the religious leader who has roughly 30% of the entire US following him. With things like Project 2025, at this point for those of us in the queer community, a republican win might mean fleeing to a new country.
Its not the media. It’s our lived experiences and looking back at history. When the guy is practically quoting Hitler, that’s a good sign we should probably not support him.
It’s still a stupid view based on frustration with the establishment rather than reality. Emotions being valid doesn’t make a falsehood more correct. Republicans have never been worse and Democrats are better than they’ve been in decades.
The only coherent argument behind not voting for Biden is accelerationism. It’s a morally bankrupt strategy that’s unlikely to work, but at least it’s a long term plan that thinks beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face.
no, my criticism is with the architect of the crime bill and the usa patriot act. my criticism is with a self-proclaimed zionist. my problem is with the head of a corrupt political party. my criticisim is with biden.
The hidden part of this argument is that either Trump isn’t significantly worse than Biden, or that you don’t need to vote for the lesser of two evils in the presidential election. You can’t divorce voting for Biden from the context of Republican fascists who are openly Nazis. It’s the same shit Israel does with the October 7th massacre: focusing only on the terribleness of the attack and downplaying the decades of oppression that allowed it to happen. It’s frustrating as fuck to hear that willful ignorance of the uncomfortable reality, either from Judeo-fascists about their genocide or so called leftists about political apathy.
Voting for a tiny party can work in systems with proportional representation, but that system doesn’t even exist for our legislature. The presidency fundamentally can’t have proportional representation, as we elect for a single position. Even if we added ranked choice, it will always come down to two dominant choices. That’s the trade off of directly electing our head of state.
You have valid frustration, but don’t have solid reasoning. Punishing Biden will make things much worse for everyone. Just like I can’t punish apathetic nematodes like you for the injustice they cause, you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.
I guess I assumed you had reasoning along these lines to justify your apathy. You probably didn’t even think that deeply about it. Malding about Biden takes too much brain power apparently.
Lol. Leftist is when no vote. Leftism is when political irrelevance. If you’re not engaging in the state’s political system and not preparing for violence, you’re mostly just larping.
A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context. The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
Organizations aren’t enough. Fascists only speak violence, so leftists stand no chance against the state. Fascists don’t even stand a chance if they lose enough internal support. The state’s systems must be engaged with because it has a strong monopoly on violence. No amount of workers unions can oppose an army. Your own logic doesn’t even support your approach.
Growing power is necessary to change the world. Might does not make right, but might is necessary to succeed. Viewing liberal democracy as insufficient isn’t the same as it being inherently immoral to use. Your leftist credibility isn’t worth shit when you have no power to back it.
>The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
what is the objective measure you can use to prove this? the amount of money sent to israel? the number of people in prison?
>A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context.
anyone who doesn’t follow your Plan ™ isn’t smart.
Utilitarianism and consequentialism. It used to be a given amongst socialists, but not anymore I guess. You are obligated to perform the action that ensures the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. Voting for the lesser evil is exactly that. An imperfect action, but a necessary one.
Honestly, socialists should always vote unless they have a specific strategy in not voting. Maybe they’re boycotting a rigged election to diminish its ability to justify the government. Maybe it’s because a specific deal with a party was broken and they’re following through on a promise. With those examples, not voting is combined with a specific action to weaken the government. There’s careful thought and the efftect of the boycott is maximized. This isn’t the case right now. The only proposed strategy is accelerationism.
How is accelerationism a “long term plan that thinks beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face”? There’s no long term plan at all, it’s simply a false hope that people will rise up when things get shitty enough, and from those ashes some kind of utopia will sprout. That’s not a plan at all, that’s just a dream.
It’s a shitty strategy that’s divorced from reality, but it does recognize the outcome of not electing Biden. Ignorant leftists on here purposefully ignore the results of their decision so they can feel justified. They want Biden to get what he deserves, but ignore the results of their actions.
It’s ironic, because socialism is often associated with utilitarianism and consequentialism, yet these keyboard socialists valorize ignoring consequences.
I don’t care about making Dems look bad. They’re evil in their own way. I care about pretending Republicans are comparably evil. Republicans are on a completely different level. They’re orders of magnitude worse. Fascists are much worse than liberals, not because liberals aren’t evil, but because fascists are indescribably more evil.
Centrist bullshit, the right loves this kind of shit
Useful idiots. They’ll celebrate getting one over on the ‘shitlibs’ if Trump gets into office, because all they care about is having a Great Satan to oppose without having to worry about thinking too much. Who cares about many minorities will die in the process?
lemmy is suffering from a lack of self awareness. I don’t know how to fix it.
Such surface level understanding… Media got Trump living rent free in ur head.
Well at least the mask isn’t glued to your face
Some of us don’t have a choice but to be worried about the religious leader who has roughly 30% of the entire US following him. With things like Project 2025, at this point for those of us in the queer community, a republican win might mean fleeing to a new country.
Its not the media. It’s our lived experiences and looking back at history. When the guy is practically quoting Hitler, that’s a good sign we should probably not support him.
Not really. Most who hold this view are far left.
It’s still a stupid view based on frustration with the establishment rather than reality. Emotions being valid doesn’t make a falsehood more correct. Republicans have never been worse and Democrats are better than they’ve been in decades.
The only coherent argument behind not voting for Biden is accelerationism. It’s a morally bankrupt strategy that’s unlikely to work, but at least it’s a long term plan that thinks beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face.
>The only coherent argument behind not voting for Biden is accelerationism.
wrong. he’s a bad guy who has a bad history and bad policies. that’s a very good reason not to vote for him.
EDIT:
this user is making shit up and insulting anyone who points it out. if you ignore them, they might go away.
biden is one of the most progressive presidents weve had in modern history. your criticism is with congress
no, my criticism is with the architect of the crime bill and the usa patriot act. my criticism is with a self-proclaimed zionist. my problem is with the head of a corrupt political party. my criticisim is with biden.
The hidden part of this argument is that either Trump isn’t significantly worse than Biden, or that you don’t need to vote for the lesser of two evils in the presidential election. You can’t divorce voting for Biden from the context of Republican fascists who are openly Nazis. It’s the same shit Israel does with the October 7th massacre: focusing only on the terribleness of the attack and downplaying the decades of oppression that allowed it to happen. It’s frustrating as fuck to hear that willful ignorance of the uncomfortable reality, either from Judeo-fascists about their genocide or so called leftists about political apathy.
Voting for a tiny party can work in systems with proportional representation, but that system doesn’t even exist for our legislature. The presidency fundamentally can’t have proportional representation, as we elect for a single position. Even if we added ranked choice, it will always come down to two dominant choices. That’s the trade off of directly electing our head of state.
You have valid frustration, but don’t have solid reasoning. Punishing Biden will make things much worse for everyone. Just like I can’t punish apathetic nematodes like you for the injustice they cause, you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.
>Punishing Biden
I couldn’t do that with any vote
I guess I assumed you had reasoning along these lines to justify your apathy. You probably didn’t even think that deeply about it. Malding about Biden takes too much brain power apparently.
your characterization of “malding” indicates that this is more about performing than discussing. I don’t tolerate insults, so i guess we are done.
Don’t post so many replies!
>so called leftists
anarchism opposes governance
communism is a stateless society
voting for a president at all indicates someone is not a leftist (Fabian socialists being an exception).
if I’m not going to vote for a genocidal tool of the police state, that only bolsters my leftist credibility.
Lol. Leftist is when no vote. Leftism is when political irrelevance. If you’re not engaging in the state’s political system and not preparing for violence, you’re mostly just larping.
A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context. The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
Organizations aren’t enough. Fascists only speak violence, so leftists stand no chance against the state. Fascists don’t even stand a chance if they lose enough internal support. The state’s systems must be engaged with because it has a strong monopoly on violence. No amount of workers unions can oppose an army. Your own logic doesn’t even support your approach.
Growing power is necessary to change the world. Might does not make right, but might is necessary to succeed. Viewing liberal democracy as insufficient isn’t the same as it being inherently immoral to use. Your leftist credibility isn’t worth shit when you have no power to back it.
>The state’s systems must be engaged with because it has a strong monopoly on violence.
wrong
>Fascists don’t even stand a chance if they lose enough internal support.
i don’t know what the fuck this even means. can you cite it? is there some evidence for it?
>Your own logic doesn’t even support your approach.
wrong.
>The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
what is the objective measure you can use to prove this? the amount of money sent to israel? the number of people in prison?
>Growing power is necessary to change the world.
this does not entail voting for joe biden.
>No amount of workers unions can oppose an army.
wrong
>Your leftist credibility isn’t worth shit when you have no power to back it.
you’re the one obsessed with leftist credibility. i just don’t want to vote for someone who is going to further fascism.
>Lol. Leftist is when no vote. Leftism is when political irrelevance.
this is a strawman
>A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context.
anyone who doesn’t follow your Plan ™ isn’t smart.
this is just ad hominem
>you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.
there is no way to get from this to the conclusion that one ought to vote for him
Utilitarianism and consequentialism. It used to be a given amongst socialists, but not anymore I guess. You are obligated to perform the action that ensures the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. Voting for the lesser evil is exactly that. An imperfect action, but a necessary one.
Honestly, socialists should always vote unless they have a specific strategy in not voting. Maybe they’re boycotting a rigged election to diminish its ability to justify the government. Maybe it’s because a specific deal with a party was broken and they’re following through on a promise. With those examples, not voting is combined with a specific action to weaken the government. There’s careful thought and the efftect of the boycott is maximized. This isn’t the case right now. The only proposed strategy is accelerationism.
>Utilitarianism and consequentialism. It used to be a given amongst socialists
citation-fucking-needed
How is accelerationism a “long term plan that thinks beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face”? There’s no long term plan at all, it’s simply a false hope that people will rise up when things get shitty enough, and from those ashes some kind of utopia will sprout. That’s not a plan at all, that’s just a dream.
It’s a shitty strategy that’s divorced from reality, but it does recognize the outcome of not electing Biden. Ignorant leftists on here purposefully ignore the results of their decision so they can feel justified. They want Biden to get what he deserves, but ignore the results of their actions.
It’s ironic, because socialism is often associated with utilitarianism and consequentialism, yet these keyboard socialists valorize ignoring consequences.
I think this meme is real light criticism of democrats. Like a dusting of critisim.
I don’t care about making Dems look bad. They’re evil in their own way. I care about pretending Republicans are comparably evil. Republicans are on a completely different level. They’re orders of magnitude worse. Fascists are much worse than liberals, not because liberals aren’t evil, but because fascists are indescribably more evil.
You’re gonna tell me my 3rd party vote is a vote for Trump. Trump is gonna call it a vote for Biden. Fuck you both. My vote isn’t for you.