The hidden part of this argument is that either Trump isn’t significantly worse than Biden, or that you don’t need to vote for the lesser of two evils in the presidential election. You can’t divorce voting for Biden from the context of Republican fascists who are openly Nazis. It’s the same shit Israel does with the October 7th massacre: focusing only on the terribleness of the attack and downplaying the decades of oppression that allowed it to happen. It’s frustrating as fuck to hear that willful ignorance of the uncomfortable reality, either from Judeo-fascists about their genocide or so called leftists about political apathy.
Voting for a tiny party can work in systems with proportional representation, but that system doesn’t even exist for our legislature. The presidency fundamentally can’t have proportional representation, as we elect for a single position. Even if we added ranked choice, it will always come down to two dominant choices. That’s the trade off of directly electing our head of state.
You have valid frustration, but don’t have solid reasoning. Punishing Biden will make things much worse for everyone. Just like I can’t punish apathetic nematodes like you for the injustice they cause, you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.
Lol. Leftist is when no vote. Leftism is when political irrelevance. If you’re not engaging in the state’s political system and not preparing for violence, you’re mostly just larping.
A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context. The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
Organizations aren’t enough. Fascists only speak violence, so leftists stand no chance against the state. Fascists don’t even stand a chance if they lose enough internal support. The state’s systems must be engaged with because it has a strong monopoly on violence. No amount of workers unions can oppose an army. Your own logic doesn’t even support your approach.
Growing power is necessary to change the world. Might does not make right, but might is necessary to succeed. Viewing liberal democracy as insufficient isn’t the same as it being inherently immoral to use. Your leftist credibility isn’t worth shit when you have no power to back it.
>The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
what is the objective measure you can use to prove this? the amount of money sent to israel? the number of people in prison?
>A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context.
anyone who doesn’t follow your Plan ™ isn’t smart.
Utilitarianism and consequentialism. It used to be a given amongst socialists, but not anymore I guess. You are obligated to perform the action that ensures the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. Voting for the lesser evil is exactly that. An imperfect action, but a necessary one.
Honestly, socialists should always vote unless they have a specific strategy in not voting. Maybe they’re boycotting a rigged election to diminish its ability to justify the government. Maybe it’s because a specific deal with a party was broken and they’re following through on a promise. With those examples, not voting is combined with a specific action to weaken the government. There’s careful thought and the efftect of the boycott is maximized. This isn’t the case right now. The only proposed strategy is accelerationism.
I guess I assumed you had reasoning along these lines to justify your apathy. You probably didn’t even think that deeply about it. Malding about Biden takes too much brain power apparently.
The hidden part of this argument is that either Trump isn’t significantly worse than Biden, or that you don’t need to vote for the lesser of two evils in the presidential election. You can’t divorce voting for Biden from the context of Republican fascists who are openly Nazis. It’s the same shit Israel does with the October 7th massacre: focusing only on the terribleness of the attack and downplaying the decades of oppression that allowed it to happen. It’s frustrating as fuck to hear that willful ignorance of the uncomfortable reality, either from Judeo-fascists about their genocide or so called leftists about political apathy.
Voting for a tiny party can work in systems with proportional representation, but that system doesn’t even exist for our legislature. The presidency fundamentally can’t have proportional representation, as we elect for a single position. Even if we added ranked choice, it will always come down to two dominant choices. That’s the trade off of directly electing our head of state.
You have valid frustration, but don’t have solid reasoning. Punishing Biden will make things much worse for everyone. Just like I can’t punish apathetic nematodes like you for the injustice they cause, you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.
>so called leftists
anarchism opposes governance
communism is a stateless society
voting for a president at all indicates someone is not a leftist (Fabian socialists being an exception).
if I’m not going to vote for a genocidal tool of the police state, that only bolsters my leftist credibility.
Lol. Leftist is when no vote. Leftism is when political irrelevance. If you’re not engaging in the state’s political system and not preparing for violence, you’re mostly just larping.
A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context. The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
Organizations aren’t enough. Fascists only speak violence, so leftists stand no chance against the state. Fascists don’t even stand a chance if they lose enough internal support. The state’s systems must be engaged with because it has a strong monopoly on violence. No amount of workers unions can oppose an army. Your own logic doesn’t even support your approach.
Growing power is necessary to change the world. Might does not make right, but might is necessary to succeed. Viewing liberal democracy as insufficient isn’t the same as it being inherently immoral to use. Your leftist credibility isn’t worth shit when you have no power to back it.
>The state’s systems must be engaged with because it has a strong monopoly on violence.
wrong
>Your leftist credibility isn’t worth shit when you have no power to back it.
you’re the one obsessed with leftist credibility. i just don’t want to vote for someone who is going to further fascism.
>Fascists don’t even stand a chance if they lose enough internal support.
i don’t know what the fuck this even means. can you cite it? is there some evidence for it?
>Your own logic doesn’t even support your approach.
wrong.
>The anti voting attitude hasn’t worked at growing leftism for decades, while Bernie Sanders and DSA sponsored candidates have boosted the left more anything.
what is the objective measure you can use to prove this? the amount of money sent to israel? the number of people in prison?
>Growing power is necessary to change the world.
this does not entail voting for joe biden.
>No amount of workers unions can oppose an army.
wrong
>Lol. Leftist is when no vote. Leftism is when political irrelevance.
this is a strawman
>A smart leftist would hedge their bets and use electoral politics to garner popularity, organize workers movements, and train in self defense, using all those avenues for power in whatever way works best given the context.
anyone who doesn’t follow your Plan ™ isn’t smart.
this is just ad hominem
>you can’t punish Biden for his bad behavior. There is only making things better. Righting the past is impossible.
there is no way to get from this to the conclusion that one ought to vote for him
Utilitarianism and consequentialism. It used to be a given amongst socialists, but not anymore I guess. You are obligated to perform the action that ensures the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people. Voting for the lesser evil is exactly that. An imperfect action, but a necessary one.
Honestly, socialists should always vote unless they have a specific strategy in not voting. Maybe they’re boycotting a rigged election to diminish its ability to justify the government. Maybe it’s because a specific deal with a party was broken and they’re following through on a promise. With those examples, not voting is combined with a specific action to weaken the government. There’s careful thought and the efftect of the boycott is maximized. This isn’t the case right now. The only proposed strategy is accelerationism.
>Utilitarianism and consequentialism. It used to be a given amongst socialists
citation-fucking-needed
>Punishing Biden
I couldn’t do that with any vote
I guess I assumed you had reasoning along these lines to justify your apathy. You probably didn’t even think that deeply about it. Malding about Biden takes too much brain power apparently.
your characterization of “malding” indicates that this is more about performing than discussing. I don’t tolerate insults, so i guess we are done.
Don’t post so many replies!
don’t tell me what to do
you should apologize for your insults