That’s not the ideology though, guillotine memes are essentially just pushing for revolutionary restructuring of the state and economy. Nobody simply thinks “kill rich” and stops thinking there.
So could anyone. But what does that have to do with anything?
Your edit isn’t making anything any clearer. I’m all for eliminating millionaires and billionaires. In the sense of eliminating the concept. Not the people.
No one said they were. You are arguing a straw man. I simply said that they are indiscriminate. The French revolution sent 23 children to the guillotine. Many more dying imprisoned. Russia sent millions to the gulags to die for simple dissent. Not to mention revolutionaries killing tzar Nicholas’s entire family. Including his young daughter, Anastasia.
They always start out by targeting specific things. But it always gets out of hand. Targeting many more people in the end than is necessary or deserving. When you rule by revolution. You never have peace. Always watching your back waiting for the revolution to unseat you. Your enemy list constantly growing.
I’m all for restructuring of the state and economy. But when has revolution ever truly worked long term. Has it worked long-term in France? Definitely in the short-term it made some change. Did it work long term in Russia? North Korea, etc. Replacing one inflexible authority with another is only asking to repeat their mistakes.
When the argument for an ideology as it has for so many of them, boils down to “you will accept it under penalty of death”. It might be that it’s a bad ideology.
I’m with Marx, it should be an evolution. Not revolution. Leftists giggling over guillotine posting isn’t helpful. Because it was an all too real thing, for good or bad. Realistically it makes more enemies than it could ever remove.
The path to a better society is elimination of Capitalism, so Capitalists aren’t really going to agree to that, no matter how nice it would make things.
In this case it would be self-defense. The only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because the danger posed by a billionaire money hoarder is far more abstract than what most people are accustomed to.
This argument is basically the same as those put forward by the right wing nut jobs that think their second amendment rights to tote a rifle will let them fight against the US govt.
Just because a method functioned a couple centuries ago in a far simpler time, does not mean it will function today. Gotta keep up with the times there gramps.
Are you operating under the impression that the French Revolution created the current republic? If so, you’re missing many, many steps. One of which was a fellow named Napoleon who crowned himself emperor.
The important part is to direct the anger towards the real enemy: the leeches sucking our planet dry and planning their escape off world. „Left“ and „Right“ are categories we were told to think in, along with buzzwords like „neoliberal“ and „woke“.
As in the definition of a cult, special language is used to divide us further and cut us off from one another.
Even calling for guillotines is kind of the same thing. We should stop killing each other. Just seize everything they have and leave them fending for themselves, same as every one of us.
The idea that Capitalists are directly controlling the media and intentionally inflammatory to create endless culture war that divides the Proletariat against itself is a firmly leftist belief.
Leftists generally are correct and also morally superior to conservatives, yes. Conservativism is reactionary and opposes liberation, in favor of maintaining current power structures, even if it relies on outward hatred of the less fortunate.
Although it is understandable that you are frustrated with the „others“, I think the „right wing nutjobs“ are not what conservatism actually aspires to be.
If you read up on conservative values, the ideas are partly morally sound:
limited government
rule of law
fiscal responsibility
human dignity
Those were the only ones I could find that are most probably agreeable. I agree that fascists are evil but if we put everyone in that basket who wants to take care of their homeland we’re no better than them. We should know better.
But what you listed aren’t conservative values. Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. Conservatives objectively and demonstrably don’t value those things despite how many times they repeat them.
There’s a difference between espoused values and practical plans. Conservatives want strong government, draconian punishment to keep people in line, limited social safety nets, and traditional gender roles and family structure. All of this is built on regressive outlook and results from reactionary outlook.
That is what current „conservative“ politicians in certain countries do. What I‘m saying is that we‘re only hurting ourselves if we hate each other. Instead we must agree on things and keep each other honest imo.
One reason why conservatives turn to right wing nutjobs is because someone (populists) promises them answers they can understand. The evidently more educated side instead looks down on them. Its obvious from the derogatory language some people use.
I‘m saying we wont make this world better by killing each other. The enemy is in control of the media and tries to cut off education (paywall it, dilute it) so we‘re easier to manipulate.
As in the definition of a cult, special language is used to divide us further and cut us off from one another.
Which definition of a cult is that? Because there is no scientific definition. There are models for high-control organizations (a term used specifically because “cult” has too much baggage for scientific methods), and language is only one aspect of information control. Every single organization on Earth will create its own language for things. That alone doesn’t mean they’re high-control.
I’ve been in a high-control organization. It doesn’t work like that, and I think diluting the term to cover such broad categories is insulting to people who have been there.
Saying something shares the mechanics of a cult is not insulting to someone who has been in a cult if that is what you mean.
Its a pattern I recognized. People fight over who is right and left, neo-contra-whatever. Its ultimately not informative and makes misunderstandings more common.
And what I‘m actually saying is that the media is controlled by the same people who benefit from us fighting instead of demanding housing prices go down immediately or wages go up accordingly. Its not that hard. We‘re just told its impossible.
You’re not far left enough for me if you’re still thinking that instead of “let’s go grab the guillotine”
The replies to this are insane. These people are actively harming millions. Its their fault if the world forms a fist aimed at their faces.
That’s fine with me, I don’t have any interest in “let’s just kill a bunch of people” as an ideology. It’s objectively wrong.
That’s not the ideology though, guillotine memes are essentially just pushing for revolutionary restructuring of the state and economy. Nobody simply thinks “kill rich” and stops thinking there.
That’s news to me, I always got the impression that “???” Was the next step after “kill rich”
More accurately, revolutionary restructuring of society is the first step towards a better future.
If we boiled down any political ideology we could probably say they are all about, “let’s just kill a bunch of people.”
At least with revolution the barrel is pointed at the oppressor not the oppressed.
No, you couldn’t. That largely goes against The ideology of actual libertarians, anarchists, and communists.
With the barrel of revolution, the oppressed are targeted frequently. Revolution is brutal, indiscriminate. And most importantly, temporary.
If I wanted to be a dick I could.
Which is the exact mindset that has us in arms against billionaires.
So could anyone. But what does that have to do with anything?
Your edit isn’t making anything any clearer. I’m all for eliminating millionaires and billionaires. In the sense of eliminating the concept. Not the people.
It’s exactly how this conversation started. Revolution isn’t about indiscriminate killing.
No one said they were. You are arguing a straw man. I simply said that they are indiscriminate. The French revolution sent 23 children to the guillotine. Many more dying imprisoned. Russia sent millions to the gulags to die for simple dissent. Not to mention revolutionaries killing tzar Nicholas’s entire family. Including his young daughter, Anastasia.
They always start out by targeting specific things. But it always gets out of hand. Targeting many more people in the end than is necessary or deserving. When you rule by revolution. You never have peace. Always watching your back waiting for the revolution to unseat you. Your enemy list constantly growing.
I’m all for restructuring of the state and economy. But when has revolution ever truly worked long term. Has it worked long-term in France? Definitely in the short-term it made some change. Did it work long term in Russia? North Korea, etc. Replacing one inflexible authority with another is only asking to repeat their mistakes.
When the argument for an ideology as it has for so many of them, boils down to “you will accept it under penalty of death”. It might be that it’s a bad ideology.
I’m with Marx, it should be an evolution. Not revolution. Leftists giggling over guillotine posting isn’t helpful. Because it was an all too real thing, for good or bad. Realistically it makes more enemies than it could ever remove.
Billionaires aren’t people
Believe it or not, they are. Only humans are capable of such cruelty.
This is silly. Billionaires are people, otherwise guillotines wouldn’t be effective.
Right, a society of machines would never create something as vile, insidious and wasteful as a billionaire
The guillotines aren’t necessary if the rich would strive for a better society.
The thing is that they would never agree to that, so then we need the guillotine.
The path to a better society is elimination of Capitalism, so Capitalists aren’t really going to agree to that, no matter how nice it would make things.
In this case it would be self-defense. The only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because the danger posed by a billionaire money hoarder is far more abstract than what most people are accustomed to.
I don’t think people should die but I do think people have a right to steal if that’s what will keep them alive. am I not far left enough
I’m actually surprised by people who think others should just die instead of stealing, if that’s the choice. Who wouldn’t steal?
Guess we won’t know since those people are dead.
It appears symbolism isn’t a trait you possess.
Far left in my country would be terrorist organizations from the leftover decades where terrorist groups formed around the Soviet communist idea.
This argument is basically the same as those put forward by the right wing nut jobs that think their second amendment rights to tote a rifle will let them fight against the US govt.
Just because a method functioned a couple centuries ago in a far simpler time, does not mean it will function today. Gotta keep up with the times there gramps.
Did it? Friendly reminder to all that the French Revolution was a failure.
Are you operating under the impression that the French Revolution created the current republic? If so, you’re missing many, many steps. One of which was a fellow named Napoleon who crowned himself emperor.
I’m… agreeing with you…
Ah, was not sarcasm. My mistake.
The important part is to direct the anger towards the real enemy: the leeches sucking our planet dry and planning their escape off world. „Left“ and „Right“ are categories we were told to think in, along with buzzwords like „neoliberal“ and „woke“.
As in the definition of a cult, special language is used to divide us further and cut us off from one another.
Even calling for guillotines is kind of the same thing. We should stop killing each other. Just seize everything they have and leave them fending for themselves, same as every one of us.
The idea that Capitalists are directly controlling the media and intentionally inflammatory to create endless culture war that divides the Proletariat against itself is a firmly leftist belief.
I mean, it’s also objectively true, but “leftist” and “true” align more often than not.
Leftists generally are correct and also morally superior to conservatives, yes. Conservativism is reactionary and opposes liberation, in favor of maintaining current power structures, even if it relies on outward hatred of the less fortunate.
Although it is understandable that you are frustrated with the „others“, I think the „right wing nutjobs“ are not what conservatism actually aspires to be.
If you read up on conservative values, the ideas are partly morally sound:
Those were the only ones I could find that are most probably agreeable. I agree that fascists are evil but if we put everyone in that basket who wants to take care of their homeland we’re no better than them. We should know better.
Or did I not understand you correctly?
In my opinion, the actions of conservative people and politicians are inconsistent with their stated values.
I agree. Thats why I said it. Conservatism isnt the enemy. People are riled up against each other and ultimately themselves.
But what you listed aren’t conservative values. Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. Conservatives objectively and demonstrably don’t value those things despite how many times they repeat them.
There’s a difference between espoused values and practical plans. Conservatives want strong government, draconian punishment to keep people in line, limited social safety nets, and traditional gender roles and family structure. All of this is built on regressive outlook and results from reactionary outlook.
That is what current „conservative“ politicians in certain countries do. What I‘m saying is that we‘re only hurting ourselves if we hate each other. Instead we must agree on things and keep each other honest imo.
One reason why conservatives turn to right wing nutjobs is because someone (populists) promises them answers they can understand. The evidently more educated side instead looks down on them. Its obvious from the derogatory language some people use.
I‘m saying we wont make this world better by killing each other. The enemy is in control of the media and tries to cut off education (paywall it, dilute it) so we‘re easier to manipulate.
The working class is indeed divided against itself knowingly by Capitalists in power.
I know. I‘m just trying to get peeps from hating each other because this only helps those in power.
From the downvotes I deduce that not everyone likes the idea.
Which definition of a cult is that? Because there is no scientific definition. There are models for high-control organizations (a term used specifically because “cult” has too much baggage for scientific methods), and language is only one aspect of information control. Every single organization on Earth will create its own language for things. That alone doesn’t mean they’re high-control.
I’ve been in a high-control organization. It doesn’t work like that, and I think diluting the term to cover such broad categories is insulting to people who have been there.
Saying something shares the mechanics of a cult is not insulting to someone who has been in a cult if that is what you mean.
Its a pattern I recognized. People fight over who is right and left, neo-contra-whatever. Its ultimately not informative and makes misunderstandings more common.
And what I‘m actually saying is that the media is controlled by the same people who benefit from us fighting instead of demanding housing prices go down immediately or wages go up accordingly. Its not that hard. We‘re just told its impossible.