There’s a new application-layer Internet protocol like (but also very much unlike) http by the name of Gemini. It was first launched in 2019 and until yesterday, flew completely under my radar. It’s primarily meant to be used for uncluttered text-only pages (although any type of file can be distributed), which are created using a deliberately simple and limited markdown language. Unsurprisingly, this results in a plethora of small niche blogs being published through it.
The basic user experience is essentially the same as browsing the web, until you notice just how much it isn’t. You enter URLs (except that they start with gemini://) you read texts and you click on hyperlinks - except that every page looks exactly the same due to the markdown language. There are no pop-ups, no ads, nothing autoplays, nothing wants your consent to exploit your user data. Even images only load when the user clicks on them. It shows just how little is actually needed, how many aspects of the modern web are completely unnecessary and mere pointless distractions.
Gemini pages - and this is a small hurdle that will keep most people away from it - can not be accessed with a normal web browser and instead require a specialized client for viewing (although paradoxically, creating pages often requires a web browser, at least for now). The idea is that both the underlying tech and the browsers are much more straightforward than anything related to http and html. A Gemini client is not effectively an entire operating system of its own that can execute near arbitrary code. It displays formatted text with basic images and videos - that’s it.
Here’s a neat, but slightly outdated introduction that also recommends a few clients and where to find pages to read:
The entire thing feels very early, tiny, experimental and odd, almost like a parallel reality, as if the World Wide Web didn’t exist and someone came up with something like it only now, using today’s hard- and software. If Lemmy is a response to social media in general and reddit in particular, Gemini feels more like a response to the World Wide Web as a whole or like a time machine back to a highly idealized version of the early days of the information system (the primary difference being the lack of horrendous '90s UX design and malware everywhere), including some unfortunate aspects that I had long forgotten about, like how the common method of finding content next to feeds - manually updated indexes instead of search engines - is plagued by dead links; and these dead links, unlike on the normal Internet, cannot be attempted to be resolved using the Wayback Machine or some other cache, at least not yet.
Gemini is equally parts exciting and promising, like a new frontier, but also at times confusing and frustrating. Don’t expect your Gemini client of choice to replace your web browser any time soon (or ever), but it’s still worth trying out, if for the novelty alone.
I was initially interested in the idea of Gemini, but when looking for a client, I happened upon this blog post by the creator of one of the clients about why they were abandoning it.
After a lot of thinking, I’ve realized there is one main reason I don’t keep coming back to Gemini: it offers no advantage over how I already use the Web.
In practice, the Web already has all the Gemini content I’m interested in from various people, and then of course everything else. Having everything in one place (whether my web browser or feed reader) makes for a much nicer experience.
Gemini is a reaction to bloated modern websites, but in fact I don’t actually visit that many gross websites like that. When I do, my ad blocker and paywall bypasser usually make them decent again. Otherwise, I spend the majority of my non-work Internet time on lightweight sites like my feed reader and Hacker News, and some time on sites that Gemini can’t emulate: YouTube, Reddit, Discord. The reality is that Gemini just wouldn’t actually improve this experience for me.
These are exactly the reservations I had about the concept, so to have someone so invested in it reach this exact conclusion and leave it made me decide to forego it. I think it’s a neat toy, and if it becomes relevant I’ll definitely take another look, but I think it’s a bit of putting the cart before the horse. I don’t want to use a protocol for the sake of using a protocol, I want it to serve a purpose and solve an actual problem I have.
I enjoyed browsing Gemini capsules using the Lagrange browser. Its look and feel is awesome and made me want to write smol websites again. I’m appalled by what modern websites have become. I miss making light but cool sites without an ounce of scripts in them.
I’m not familiar with the Gemini protocol, but how does it differ from just starting up a webserver pointed at a single folder with an index.html? Isn’t it still just as possible to make a simple site using http?
At that point, I think ideally, normal users wouldn’t know the difference between viewing a normal webpage and a gemini page, until they run into a random inconvenience where a link doesn’t work as expected or something.
I just don’t know what Gemini has to offer. It’s basically a novelty protocol for people who want to pretend it’s 1995 again. Nothing wrong with that, but I don’t see it having practical use.
Yeah, sounds about right. It’s the same deal as those productivity phones with 4 hardcoded apps on them. I suppose there’s appeal, because these types of things keep being made.
I remember seeing it mentioned here and there in 96, 97 when I first got access to internet. I was never curious enough to dig further. I just know it’s another protocol…
Needs a client to access, of course. Basic, but functional. I found a general-purpose forum not too different from reddit or lemmy through it (and they decided to call it a BBS, because the Eternal September hasn’t happened to Gemini yet):
gemini://bbs.geminispace.org/
Is there support for Forms/server side code
To the best of my understanding (and it’s highly limited, since I only just learned about this, so take everything with a grain of salt), what Gemini does is primarily limit what the client can do. No local scripts, highly limited markdown. The server side is not limited. You can write any complex code you want that works behind the scenes - but it still has to deliver static pages (called “capsules”) to the end user. This series of articles explains the basic underlying tech and uses the example of a simple server to illustrate how Gemini works:
And yes, forms are possible, even though there appears to be a somewhat widespread misconception that they are impossible. Please excuse the sketchy-looking IP address instead of a URL, this was the best resource I was able to find on this (and yes, I checked if this page is on Gemini - this appears to be not the case):
Disclaimer: This is two years old and I have not tried to implement it myself. Looks entirely plausible though.
How big is it? Is there like just a few sites or a few hundred?
According to the search engine linked above, there are 2420 domains and 1,854,666 individual pages as of yesterday. This is about comparable to the World Wide Web at the same time 1994, a number that grew to 10,000 by the end of that year; I wouldn’t expect the same explosive growth from Gemini - the field has already been plowed, after all. Gemini Space is small, but not a ghost town.
And the star system and sign. Naming projects after very common words (or even worse, just letters or numbers) is really stupid as it makes searching for them or discussing them difficult and context sensitive and prone to fail.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I literally cannot stand the modern net. I’ve made it a point to curate personal websites. Found a bunch of cool ones on the lainchan web ring. Will check out Gemini
It’s cool and all, but this feels more like a toy than a tool. I can make dead simple web site in minutes with current stack. Nothing, but plain static pages.
Heck, if I looked for it, I bet I could set up markdown to HTML converter as this is already a widely used functionality throughout the web.
Admittedly I’ve only just found out about this today, but my understanding is that it’s meant to be going back to basics since modern web design is so far removed from the original intentions of HTML.
I’m probably too young for that- I didn’t learn HTML in school, all the programming curriculum was in Scratch or Microsoft Makecode, and I assume it still is.
I’d love to host my personal site over Gemini but that site doesn’t have any details about self-hosting. Guess I’ve got to research it in more detail. Do you have any recommendations? Should I just write my own server? 🤔
That’s like html when it started out. The idea was that the user got to choose what all pages would look like. That gave way to the author having total control.
There’s a new application-layer Internet protocol like (but also very much unlike) http by the name of Gemini. It was first launched in 2019 and until yesterday, flew completely under my radar. It’s primarily meant to be used for uncluttered text-only pages (although any type of file can be distributed), which are created using a deliberately simple and limited markdown language. Unsurprisingly, this results in a plethora of small niche blogs being published through it.
The basic user experience is essentially the same as browsing the web, until you notice just how much it isn’t. You enter URLs (except that they start with gemini://) you read texts and you click on hyperlinks - except that every page looks exactly the same due to the markdown language. There are no pop-ups, no ads, nothing autoplays, nothing wants your consent to exploit your user data. Even images only load when the user clicks on them. It shows just how little is actually needed, how many aspects of the modern web are completely unnecessary and mere pointless distractions.
Gemini pages - and this is a small hurdle that will keep most people away from it - can not be accessed with a normal web browser and instead require a specialized client for viewing (although paradoxically, creating pages often requires a web browser, at least for now). The idea is that both the underlying tech and the browsers are much more straightforward than anything related to http and html. A Gemini client is not effectively an entire operating system of its own that can execute near arbitrary code. It displays formatted text with basic images and videos - that’s it.
Here’s a neat, but slightly outdated introduction that also recommends a few clients and where to find pages to read:
https://geminiquickst.art/
The entire thing feels very early, tiny, experimental and odd, almost like a parallel reality, as if the World Wide Web didn’t exist and someone came up with something like it only now, using today’s hard- and software. If Lemmy is a response to social media in general and reddit in particular, Gemini feels more like a response to the World Wide Web as a whole or like a time machine back to a highly idealized version of the early days of the information system (the primary difference being the lack of horrendous '90s UX design and malware everywhere), including some unfortunate aspects that I had long forgotten about, like how the common method of finding content next to feeds - manually updated indexes instead of search engines - is plagued by dead links; and these dead links, unlike on the normal Internet, cannot be attempted to be resolved using the Wayback Machine or some other cache, at least not yet.
Gemini is equally parts exciting and promising, like a new frontier, but also at times confusing and frustrating. Don’t expect your Gemini client of choice to replace your web browser any time soon (or ever), but it’s still worth trying out, if for the novelty alone.
I was initially interested in the idea of Gemini, but when looking for a client, I happened upon this blog post by the creator of one of the clients about why they were abandoning it.
These are exactly the reservations I had about the concept, so to have someone so invested in it reach this exact conclusion and leave it made me decide to forego it. I think it’s a neat toy, and if it becomes relevant I’ll definitely take another look, but I think it’s a bit of putting the cart before the horse. I don’t want to use a protocol for the sake of using a protocol, I want it to serve a purpose and solve an actual problem I have.
I enjoyed browsing Gemini capsules using the Lagrange browser. Its look and feel is awesome and made me want to write smol websites again. I’m appalled by what modern websites have become. I miss making light but cool sites without an ounce of scripts in them.
Have you looked at the source code of a capsule? It’s delightfully simple.
I’m not familiar with the Gemini protocol, but how does it differ from just starting up a webserver pointed at a single folder with an
index.html? Isn’t it still just as possible to make a simple site using http?I wonder if the “everything in one place” issue could be resolved by a browser extension to view gemini pages?
At that point, I think ideally, normal users wouldn’t know the difference between viewing a normal webpage and a gemini page, until they run into a random inconvenience where a link doesn’t work as expected or something.
I just don’t know what Gemini has to offer. It’s basically a novelty protocol for people who want to pretend it’s 1995 again. Nothing wrong with that, but I don’t see it having practical use.
Yeah, sounds about right. It’s the same deal as those productivity phones with 4 hardcoded apps on them. I suppose there’s appeal, because these types of things keep being made.
So, it’s Gopher?
Gemini is encrypted by default, but they both share a lot of similarities.
Similar idea, but entirely new. I don’t think many people even here know what Gopher is.
I remember seeing it mentioned here and there in 96, 97 when I first got access to internet. I was never curious enough to dig further. I just know it’s another protocol…
True. I’m probably showing my age there.
I considered mentioning it, but I’ve been accused of being far older than I am, simply because I know about things from the past, so I skipped it.
I remember switching from Gopher to Pine.
I used Gopher a bit, but we were just looking for free games, and usually ended up on a big college FTP server.
Then Netscape changed it all.
Eventually Hotline came along and was our favorite way to get warez.
I have seen Gemini before but never tried it. Maybe i will but i do have a few questions first:
I’ve found this one:
gemini://geminispace.info/
Needs a client to access, of course. Basic, but functional. I found a general-purpose forum not too different from reddit or lemmy through it (and they decided to call it a BBS, because the Eternal September hasn’t happened to Gemini yet):
gemini://bbs.geminispace.org/
To the best of my understanding (and it’s highly limited, since I only just learned about this, so take everything with a grain of salt), what Gemini does is primarily limit what the client can do. No local scripts, highly limited markdown. The server side is not limited. You can write any complex code you want that works behind the scenes - but it still has to deliver static pages (called “capsules”) to the end user. This series of articles explains the basic underlying tech and uses the example of a simple server to illustrate how Gemini works:
https://medium.com/erus-encodia/creating-your-own-gemini-server-part-1-what-is-the-gemini-protocol-cf497477c4d
And yes, forms are possible, even though there appears to be a somewhat widespread misconception that they are impossible. Please excuse the sketchy-looking IP address instead of a URL, this was the best resource I was able to find on this (and yes, I checked if this page is on Gemini - this appears to be not the case):
http://216.218.220.144/tutorials/sig-tutorials/misc/gemini-forms.gmi
Screenshot if you don’t want to click on the above link: https://i.imgur.com/s2mL3bM.png
Disclaimer: This is two years old and I have not tried to implement it myself. Looks entirely plausible though.
According to the search engine linked above, there are 2420 domains and 1,854,666 individual pages as of yesterday. This is about comparable to the World Wide Web at the same time 1994, a number that grew to 10,000 by the end of that year; I wouldn’t expect the same explosive growth from Gemini - the field has already been plowed, after all. Gemini Space is small, but not a ghost town.
This is fascinating and I’ll have to take a look. I wonder where all the people creating this are hanging out as I’d love to get involved.
Appreciate all the detail and the extra mile of providing the screenshot!
Have some Lemmy gold: 🥇
This sounds cool, but the name is unfortunate due to Google’s gemini
Not the project’s fault, given that it came out four years earlier.
then the Gemini project, both the OS one and the NASA one.
And the star system and sign. Naming projects after very common words (or even worse, just letters or numbers) is really stupid as it makes searching for them or discussing them difficult and context sensitive and prone to fail.
To be fair I thought from the start that the world wide web was a pretty stupid name but it did okay.
Rfc 1178 is leaking.
Yes! I use the Buran app (open source on Android) to browse it. :)
What are your favorite sites?
Ascii porn
I honestly don’t really use it, but I am excited about it in the future. :)
I installed it because of OSNews, my favorite tech news website. But the Gemini page seems to be down?
https://www.osnews.com/story/136770/osnews-launches-gemini-capsule/
Thank you so much for sharing this. I literally cannot stand the modern net. I’ve made it a point to curate personal websites. Found a bunch of cool ones on the lainchan web ring. Will check out Gemini
If you have any Lain/Lain-adjacent content feel free to post it over at [email protected]
It’s cool and all, but this feels more like a toy than a tool. I can make dead simple web site in minutes with current stack. Nothing, but plain static pages.
Heck, if I looked for it, I bet I could set up markdown to HTML converter as this is already a widely used functionality throughout the web.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, this is really fascinating and just my kind of thing.
Couldn’t they just use No JavaScript and get the same approach? Or no JavaScript and no CSS?
I am 100% down for that approach. We even have options now so the entire web doesn’t have to be a fucking Table element.
Why do we need a whole new standard? That’s never a good approach
That would be doable, but in my opinion markdown is far easier to understand than HTML.
They were teaching HTML in Primary Schools and then again in Middle Schools. I have a hard time believing it’s easier.
It’s not even standard Markdown. Because again - why use a standard when I can make my own???
Admittedly I’ve only just found out about this today, but my understanding is that it’s meant to be going back to basics since modern web design is so far removed from the original intentions of HTML.
I’m probably too young for that- I didn’t learn HTML in school, all the programming curriculum was in Scratch or Microsoft Makecode, and I assume it still is.
This comment thread is making me feel old!
Logo is the way.
Sounds a bit like Gopher.
I’d love to host my personal site over Gemini but that site doesn’t have any details about self-hosting. Guess I’ve got to research it in more detail. Do you have any recommendations? Should I just write my own server? 🤔
That’s like html when it started out. The idea was that the user got to choose what all pages would look like. That gave way to the author having total control.