“You mean to tell me that you have actual evidence of weapons right under the children you bombed?”
“Yes”
“Can I see it?”
“No”
“Seymour everyone accusing us doing genocide again!”
“No mom they’re just Hamas”
“We saw some weapons by that hospital over there though… Brb”
“Right, and you call them steamed despite the fact that they are obviously minced.”
Chalmers: Yes, I should be–good lord, what is happening in there?!
Skinner: Hamas HQ Tunnels?
Chalmers: Hamas HQ Tunnels?! At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country, localized entirely within your hospital?!
Skinner: Yes.
Chalmers: …May I see it?
Skinner: …No.
Skinner: . . . Oh wait, no not really.
The Israeli military, however, has struggled to prove that Hamas maintained a command-and-control center under the facility. Critics of the Israeli military say the evidence does not support its early claims, noting that it had distributed material before the raid showing five underground complexes and also had said the tunnel network could be reached from wards inside a hospital building. Israel has publicly revealed the existence of only one tunnel entrance on the grounds of the hospital, at the shack outside its main buildings.
The Israeli military says that it moved carefully because the tunnel was booby-trapped and ran out of time to investigate before it destroyed the tunnel and withdrew from the hospital. Israeli and Qatari officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Israel had to leave the hospital to comply with the terms of a temporary ceasefire in late November.
and
But the video appears to show something else: a water storage area built in 2016, when the hospital was constructed, according to engineering plans and images from the hospital’s construction reviewed by The Times.
The Israeli military declined to provide additional imagery to support its assertion that this was a tunnel entryway or part of a tunnel complex.
We didn’t prove it and we had to totally destroy it before we could!
and
“But what if…I were to commit atrocities and blame it on Hamas? Ho ho ho, delightfully devilish, Israel!”
May I see these Hamas tunnels?
What’s up with all these “Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields” arguments?
Are these some kind of propaganda bots, or are people actually that stupid to repeat each others bullshit?
If you are a Hamas and I am an IDF and there is a civilian in between you and me, then it is a shield that you are using to protect yourself in a cowardly fashion. I am allowed to kill you and if the human in between dies then that’s your fault.
However, if you are a Hamas and I am an IDF and there is a fence in between you and me, then you are not allowed to ever cross the fence. Not even if your house is on the other side of the fence. That is doing a genocide against all Israelis. If you cross the fence and you hurt an IDF, then we are allowed to kill twenty five Palestinians. This is called the Dahiya Doctrine.
But also, if you are a journalist and you mention the Dahiya Doctrine, you are an antisemite and should be fired. If you are a jouranlist in Gaza then you are a Hamas and I can kill you. And I can kill your family. And I can kill anyone in your immediate vicinity, because they are human shields (see above).
These are the rules of civil engagement. If you do not respect these rules, you are an antisemite. And we can kill you for being an antisemite because that’s fascism.
But if you’re an antisemite doing a fascism in Ukraine, that’s different. Disregard all of the above. In fact, strike it and reverse it. In fact, strike it and reverse it and you are a Russian bot. Also, please nobody ask about the banner on the Likud Party HQ.
This post is amazing thank you
Someone not only payed for that banner to be made, but confidently decided to hang it. Amazing.
good job
Even if that’s the case, Israel’s stance is to kill the hostages if it means killing the hostage taker. They’re so bloodthirsty they kill their own people.
They believe (incorrectly) that saying the civilians were used as human shields (they weren’t) transfers the moral responsibility for their deaths to Hamas (it doesn’t).
It’s the only way they can justify the blatant murder of civilians and destruction of their homes and public infrastructure on anyone but Israel. Otherwise the only other argument to justify it is “they deserve it”
When it comes to human shields, the only independent verification back in 2014 (Amnesty link) is of Weapons (not rockets) hidden at a vacant school, situated btwn 2 UNRWA schools housing displaced people, by a Palestinian armed group.
The Guardian journalists had encountered a couple individuals in 2014 too.
HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009
Amnesty on Hamas War Crimes 2023
Yet none of those come remotely close to making hospitals and schools bombing targets. Even if all the IDF claims were true, that does not exempt those hospitals and schools as protected under international law.
While we’re on the subject, let’s look at how the IDF uses Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
“Human shield” is a label that is applied to place the blame for civilian deaths on one’s enemy. It a very useful propaganda phrase for painting your enemies(or anyone really) as inhuman monsters worthy of slaughter.
Citations needed recently did a very informative episode on the history and use of the phrase
Probably a mix of propaganda bots and real idiots. The idea is that the people using human shields are the 100% objective bad guy, and while that is bad, I contend that the Israelis that shoot the human shields are morally much worse.
Israel sent a handcuffed prisoner into a hospital to tell them all to evacuate because they were going to blow the hospital up. He then left the hospital and Israeli soldiers shot him multiple times.
That isn’t just a human shield that also is a human messenger pigeon that you’ve shot after it’s read its message aloud.
Are these some kind of propaganda bots, or are people actually that stupid to repeat each others bullshit?
I think it’s both, usually at the same time. Brainwashed bot-people.
Who knows. Why are you repeating bullshit. The answer lies within.
¿Por que no los dos?
No, it is the UN that is Hamas.
“Good lord! What is happening in Rafah?”
GDF is doing great work explaining how we got here.
Honestly there’s no point in Israel pulling any punches now. Not getting rid of hamas now would just kick the can down the road and all of this will just happen again a year or two from now. People are already upset, might as well make it worth the bad press.
- Blowing up innocent people isn’t getting rid of hamas
- As long as there is injustice, even if hamas is wiped out there will be another group.
I believe it’s a war crime for Hamas to use human (including children) shields, but sure. Nothing is Hamas’ fault.
Didn’t your moma ever teach you 2 war crimes don’t make clean war? What are kids learning these days on toktok smh
Right, so force the entire population into tents, shut down aid, shut down power, shut down water, lock up the border and let nobody through, destroy all the hospitals, plow up the cemeteries, kill the hostages.
“Look at what Hamas made me do! They killed 1000 so I’m going to kill 30,000+”
For someone to be a human shield, they have to be shielding something. Israel is using tools of genocide because it’s decided all Palestinians are Hamas.
Better just kill them all then, right? Fuck off.
Do you think it’s a war crime for Israel to destroy all their hospitals? Do you think it’s a war crime what happened to Hind and ten thousand other children? Or can you only find fault with one side.
I believe it’s a war crime for Hamas to use human (including children) shields
This is true and I have great news for you- both Israel and Hamas can go to ICJ and individuals to the ICC! Sanctions for Hamas and Israel, right?
Sounds fair to me.
Nothing is Hamas’ fault.
If anything is Hamas’s fault, then a genocide of the entire population of Gaza is acceptable.
Hmmm, so 1% of Gaza’s population is an entire genocide. I get it. Israel is arguably over reacting. I’m American though, a handful of terrorists from Saudi Arabia flew planes into buildings here and in response we bombed the living shit out of a different country and occupied it for 20 years.
Hmmm, so 1% of Gaza’s population is an entire genocide.
Four times as many Palestinians have died in the last four months as died in the Bosnian Genocide of 1995
I too believe that. Most people in this community abhorre everything hamas stands for (if you don’t, shame on you) but God forbid if Israel does anything to solve the problem of having a neighbouring country trying to kill every single citizen of you own.
Just let it be and it will resolve itself, they think.
God forbid if Israel does anything to solve the problem
The core objection is the how. Why the massively disproportionate force is encouraged by the IDF as its own ‘tool of terror’ to dissuade the population of those it fights against
‘We will wield disproportionate power against every village from which shots are fired on Israel, and cause immense damage and destruction. From our perspective, these are military bases… This isn’t a suggestion. This is a plan that has already been authorized.’
- Israeli General, Gadi Eisenkot in 2008
“HAMAS is committed to armed resistance against Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel’s place. HAMAS has been the de facto governing body in the Gaza Strip since 2007, when it ousted the Palestinian Authority from power.”
Your not much of a negotiator if your idea of negotiation is the destruction and annihilalition of the other party.
Rabbi Colonel Eyal Karim, who has been nominated as the new Chief Rabbi of the Israeli Defence Forces, is under scrutiny for comments he made about rape during wartime.
Rabbi Karim issued a clarification in 2012 regarding his comments, stating that “obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders.”
Just wrap your brains around that, as you try to explain why Palestinians need to be exterminated to clear way for Israeli occupation of Gaza.
HAMAS has been the de facto governing body in the Gaza Strip since 2007
The Gaza districts have not been permitted to conduct elections since 2006. There are people in Gaza who were 16 years old when the Hamas aligned party won that election, are now 32 years old, and have never had an opportunity to voice support for an alternative party in power.
Incidentally, they are now being starved to death in a small town on Gaza’s southern most tip, because of an election result from the Bush Administration.
Imagine if a Canadian army had marched south into New Hampshire, forced every last New Hampshirite onto the border of Massachusetts, and relentlessly bombed Portsmouth for months, because the state had voted in a GOP state legislative majority in 2006.
The Palestinians gleefully cheering and spitting on the desecrated bodies of victims of the massacre seem pretty supportive of hamas doings.
Hamas wouldn’t exist if there was no occupation
British Mandate Period:
Antisemitism in the Arab World
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948
Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928
1929 Riots from Forward and 972Mag
Peel Commission Report and Memorandum of the Arab Higher Committee 1937
1936-1939 Revolt from JVL, Britannica, MEE
What Hitler and the Grand Mufti Really Said: Time, Haaretz, WaPo
Yosef Weitz’ unofficial Transfer Committee and the JNF. Which has dispossessed Palestinians to present day. 972mag, MEE, Haaretz
1948 to 1967:
Plan Dalet and Declassified Massacres
Additional context of what was detailed in Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948)
Arab League advocating for unified state 1948
1967 war Declassified
Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations practiced in the occupied territories after 1967
How the US became the ally of Israel
Occupation:
Occupation and 50 years of dispossession
Oslo Accords MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ
Arab Israelis are not equal including Education (2001 report)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel and Military Court
Child abuse of Palestinian prisoners
Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, No freedom of movement, and also Water control
Palestinians lack civil rights
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012
PCPSR Public Opinion Poll Dec 2023
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs archived here
That’s the thing. They aren’t doing anything that will truly destroy Hamas. Indiscriminate bombings and attacks do nothing. They need to send boots on the ground to root them out, while simultaneously cordoning off and protecting civilians.
Because that’s what the good guys do. They don’t fight back against terrorists by becoming bloodthirsty terrorists of their own. Palestinians are hostages by Hamas, and Israel should be trying to save them too.
No amount of memes will change the fact that the premise makes no sense. That’s why they don’t take off. It’s not the number, it’s because the content is sht.
As evidenced by your posts lack of traffic. But by all means, keep trying.
It’s doing fine for a 2 hour post. Stay mad Zionist.
Another who doesn’t think Israel should exist.
You do all of us a great dishonor with your genocide. We should not invade and kill. Give them back the land and in time once we all heal our wounds maybe we can look at peacefully living side by side with our Palestinian brothers as one country, but that can never happen while the state of Israel exists as it currently does.
That which is hateful to you, do not do to another. You know this, now go study and be better.
Removed by mod
Do you think they should exist behaving as they are currently? (the government, not the citizens)
Let me ask you. What would be an appropriate response to terrorists coming across your border, killing and raping your citizens. I agree that Israel is taking it too far, but what would be an appropriate response to an attack on your country by people who want your country to be wiped from the map?
Clearly bombing as many children and journalists as possible, as any sane empathetic person would do.
>to be wiped from the map
this idiom doesn’t exist in arabic. it’s a lie.
rape is a crime. open an investigation.
terrorism is a crime. launch an investigation.
murder is a crime. open an investigation.
Any apartheid state should not exist
I hope you realize that there aren’t many Jews allowed in just about all the surrounding countries. It’s a nice platitude I suppose.
I have heard this a lot (“Israel’s right to exist”) and it makes me wonder, why does Israel have a right to exist? This is an honest question and I hope someone can answer it (and not answer with a question, just facts please). A lot of people, including those who ask that question, seem to have low confidence in Israel’s right to exist. Like they need other people to confirm it.
Edit: Israel is literally the only country that I have ever heard people talk about it’s “right to exist”. Why is that?
I suppose you could take that argument and turn it on any country/people and question their right to exist. Looking around at what we’ve done to this world, it would be pretty easy to make an argument that humans have forfeited their right exist. You are asking for a factual answer to what is basically a philosophical question. Do Jews have a right to live in the Middle East? They are, for most realistic purposes, not allowed in all the surrounding Arab countries. Why not set up Israel in, I don’t know, uh, give them Iowa or something? Well, then you get into that fucking weird religious shit that doesn’t make any sense to me. I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on why Israel doesn’t have a right to exist.
Thanks, that’s pretty much the standard answer.
You are asking for a factual answer to what is basically a philosophical question.
but the thing is, you brought “Israel’s right to exist” up.
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on why Israel doesn’t have a right to exist.
I never said nor implied that Israel has or doesn’t have a “right to exist”, and what does my opinion matter on that anyway? I think the “Israel’s right to exist” argument is some kind of ad hominem fallacy, like “poisoning the well” or “appeal to motive” or some other discrediting tactic used to defend Israeli exceptionalism. Case in point: this meme (which turned out to be pretty powerful after all)- the response to “is Israel commiting war crimes” is “well you must think Israel doesn’t have a right to exist (and therefore you’re a bigot so I can ignore you)” which is complete cognitive blindness to the simple idea of investigating possible war crimes. It always goes to ad hominem or whataboutism. For the record I’m not arguing with you, I just wanted to know what you think.
Nah, I just dislike stupidity.
Self-loathing isn’t healthy.
Any other scathing takes?
Any other bad takes?
It must be the content that is Hamas
🥱
