“Chemicals” in food. Literally every substance, every food and people are composed of them. The common usage has bastardized the meaning and latched on to the naturalistic fallacy. Snake venom is natural. Cyanide is natural. Arsenic and Uranium are natural. Botulinum toxin is natural. Something being naturally occurring does not automatically make it good for you just as something being made in a lab does not equate to being bad for you.
I feel like that’s one of those things where the conversational use of chemicals and scientific use has drifted apart
There’s plenty of examples but the only one I can think of is evolution, like In every terrible sci-fi movie ever using evolution to describe the individual evil monster gaining some change
Anyways 100% agree with you tho
The word theory is another one.
I find myself thinking this a lot. Someone goes; “and that’s my theory about…” And I’m like; that’s not a theory, that’s a hypothesis…
Like how some creationists try to dispell evolution by saying that it’s only a theory.
I just say “so is gravity”
Idk if that helps your point as it’s simultaneously one of the most studied and least understood things in physics. Although I doubt a creationist could mount that argument.
The point is it’s not just a guess with no evidence which is what they think a theory is.
If they came back with that you try and explain that’s why it’s called a theory and not a fact.
But that’s just a theory, a gaaaame theory
Same thing with people thinking that organic food is healthier. Organic food might be good for the environment, but not necessarily the climate or your health.
I worked in produce as a quality inspector for a couple years. Organic generally just means lower quality for higher price. No one is regulating it as far as I know, they can just skip pesticides, do everything else the same and charge more for the same product that actually cost them less to produce. We refered to it as a hillarious scam when the boss wasnt around.
That depends on where you live though. Here in Denmark, as an example, we have a certificate called “Statskontrolleret økologisk” which basically translates to “Government-certified organic”. There are specific guidelines and rules that need to be followed, to be allowed to use this seal on your product.
We have a similar system in the US. The US department of agriculture has a stamp they put on food that has strict criteria for what goes in it
Doesn’t it cost more to produce because you lose more crops to pests?
No, thats just the bullshit they use to justify it.
Anything not looking good enough gets sent to a secondary outlet and is sold as is with no organic labels. The stuff that is a grade below that gets juiced ( dont drink fruit juice that you didnt make yourself if you can help it…). They are not losing a single pennie, they are making out like thieves
Organic has less pesticides. Which is probably healthier no? I mostly buy non organic, but always get organic for certain foods like strawberries and oats since they tend to have so much pesticides used on them.
Organic has less pesticides.
Less pesticides also means more bacteria and more bug poop. There is a reason why they use pesticides, after all.
Even if there are trace amounts of pesticides left, you can just wash the produce, which you should always do anyway. Same reason you wash the organic produce to get rid of bug stuff…
The trace amounts of bug poop or pesticides really makes no difference when it comes to your health.
Not necessarily less pesticides, but “natural” pesticides. In my opinion, organic food is probably either equivalent or better than not-organic, but I don’t think there’s much scientific consensus.
People tend to think “organic” means that a food item is free from the ills of industrial agriculture, but it really doesn’t. It’s the same thing with people directing hate at GMO’s: most complaints people have about them are really complaints that apply to industrial ag whether GMO or not.
I really liked this post by Hank Green regarding “natural remedies”.
tl;dw The chemicals used in chemotherapy are naturally occurring, and science uses what we know works. So when people say “you should use natural remedies”, what they really mean is, you should use something:
- we don’t know whether it works
- we know doesn’t work
- we know is actively harmful
And the first two categories aren’t necessarily bad, an Epsom salt bath can feel really nice, but don’t think it’s a replacement for proper medical science.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I love when they compare food labels from two countries but don’t notice the ingredients are the same just described in different words or with different levels of verbosity based on the local regulations.
Have you ever tried uranium in your oatmeal? Delicious!
I use ethically sourced 100% natural asbestos to filter my coffee. Very good flavor profile.
Have you heard about the chemical dihydrogen monoxide?! It’s 100% fatal! Too much causes death, too little, death! Massively addictive.
On one hand I agree with you, the way “chemicals” are used in everyday speech differs from the text book definition.
On the other hand, if we take our heads out of our asses and stop the "well actually"s I kinda have to agree with being against “chemicals” in food. Arsenic is naturally occurring, sure, but at what concentration? Radioactive uranium is a naturally occurring element, but I would hardly call nuclear fallout something natural.
Uranium doesnt need to undergo fission to be toxic. Fission also occurred naturally in the oklo nuclear reactor long ago. Uranium mined from that area is depleted in U235 and there are higher concentrations of stable isotopes derived from fission products in that area. Arsenic is found in higher concentrations in rice crops. Its found in certain soils and lakes. In certain areas in India, Fluoride can be high enough in concentration to cause bone growth abnormalities. Selenium is found in higher concentrations in the western US to the point that certain plants take it up and concentrate it further up to 2% dry weight. The plants use it as a defense against herbivory. Some trees concentrate nickel to the point that it turns their sap blue and may be a viable source of the element. i.e biomining. The plants that take up selenium also make an alkaloid called swainsonine that if ingested in high enough quantities, can cause cattle and other animals to shake themselves to death. Hence they are colloquially named locoweed i.e crazy weed. Certain plants were historically used as a form of crude birth control due to some of the compounds found in them being abortificants. Echinacea was pulled from the market as it was found to significantly increase the risk of heart attack and stroke due to its stimulant properties. Foxglove was used to develop digitalis which is a valuable heart medication but the plant itself is fairly dangerous. Metformin was derived from naturally occurring compounds that are poisonous in the concentrations they are naturally found in due to their tendency to cause severe hypoglycemia. There are TONS of plants that contain hepatotoxic compounds (cause liver damage). Green potatoes, rhubarb, raw red kidney beans, those all have substances in parts of them that can cause illness.
The point is that nature has plenty of ways to kill. Something being “natural” is no guarantee of safety.
If you are not worried about the chemicals in your food, your long term health would like to have a word with you.
Not just your food, even the water. It’s full of H2O.
Being overweight or obese, smoking, excessive alcohol consumption, prolonged sitting, loneliness will all kill you way faster than all those “chemicals” in your food that you are so terrified of but no one really cares about any of that because its much harder to lose that extra 30 pounds and break up sitting every once in a while with light exercise than it is to act like a picky 5 year old and eat nothing but organic food satisfied by the false notion that you did something of consequence for your health.
I fully agree on those other factors you mentioned some of even higher importance.
Water is a chemical. Salt is a chemical. Everything is a chemical.
Absolutely, but not at all chemicals are the same as you know. Some are harmless and some are not.
Cyclists, some people just see red when they came across cyclist at the road.
Cycle infrastructure, even.
There’s really no winning as a cyclist when most people are in cars. If you stop at all stop signs, and obey they right-of-way, people will yell at you and/or try to wave you through ahead of your turn dangerously. If you do an Idaho stop (which is the safest way to approach a stop, whether it’s legal or not), people will honk and yell at you and possibly try to run you off the road.
I used to commute by bike a lot during rush hour. If there was a lineup of cars waiting at a red-light, and I just waited in line, people in cars behind me would honk at me as if me preventing them from being one cars-length further ahead in line would somehow affect them. If I filtered forward, like I should, people would actually edge their cars over to try and block me.
I think for the most part, it’s misplaced anger from drivers who don’t want to face the fact that they are the source of danger on roads. The worst bicycle collision is way less severe than a car crash. They also really hate when bicyclists can get anywhere faster than them, which is often the case because it shows them just how much time they waste being traffic.
what’s an Idaho stop?
If you are on a bike, you treat stop signs as yields, and red lights as stop signs. Iit has been shown to be safer.
If it were codified like this as law everywhere, people would accept it better. The rule breaking is what pisses a lot of people off. It would be much more predictable and safer too.
Yeah, the government needs to get behind it (and tell people about it). I’ve come up to stop signs before, and been nearly run over from behind by cars that didn’t expect me to stop.
I have literally never seen this hypothetical ‘rules following’ cyclists, but I do have several dings on my car from cyclist’s lane splitting in traffic, which is illegal in our state.
You know, I was actually curious about the legality of lane splitting. I’ve never really done it cause I never bike on roads with more than one lane in each direction. I looked it up state-by-state (all 50), looking only at the actual law, or official state department of transportation documents.
I did not see a single law that prohibits bicycles from lane splitting. Most states that have laws against lane splitting specify that it applies to “motorcycles”. Most states are literally just copy-pasted from each other.
Another good chunk of states say that “vehicles” can’t lane split, but the official legal definition (which I checked for each state) specifically excludes human-powered devices like bikes from being called “vehicles”. In those states, e-bikes and other motorized bicycles would not be allowed to lane split.
One state (virginia) even goes so far to have a law that explicitly states that lane splitting is legal on bikes.
None of that means that you won’t get harassed by cops, but it’s at least fair to say that there is no state where lane splitting on a regular bicycle is illegal.
if you can get a dui on a bike it is a vehicle, there is no exemption for bike-type vehicles on lane splitting. There ARE exemptions for lane splitting on motorcycles in stupid places like California.
I literally just looked it up for every state. I found no state with a law against lane splitting for bicycles. It’s legal in every state.
Ignoring the impact (death for the cycler), I’ve seen plenty of asshole bikers who deserve a good yelling at and 100% deserve the hate.
What they don’t deserve is getting run over.
I’ve seen FAR more asshole drivers than asshole cyclists. It’s just a majority of drivers have a bias in their head against modes of transport that aren’t cars, they see it as abnormal, so they’re much quicker to stereotype the groups than they are to stereotype “drivers”, which they, themselves, are a part of.
Yeah. Turns out there are a ton of cars, not a ton of bikes.
The rest is just made up in your head.
Lol not in Amsterdam and many other cities. And even outside of those cities, there are a higher % of drivers which are assholes than cyclists which are assholes. You are just an irrational person, there is absolutely no world where more cyclers act like shit in traffic than drivers, proportionally. The average driver absolutely acts like a baby compared to the average cyclist…
But not the cyclist as the cycle right through it.
Classic, I’m guilty of this. The best part about cycling in my small city is squeezing into the gaps and not waiting around in the wind for the lights to cycle.
I see it as my reward for biking instead of driving to be both a pedestrian when I want (go through red lights when traffic is clear on safe streets) and a car when I want (take a lane to get around a delivery truck)
That and getting places faster!
Congratulations, you’re one of the dickheads giving cyclists a bad name.
Studies show all the things I do actually make it safer for me as a biker. Example: https://www.vox.com/2014/5/9/5691098/why-cyclists-should-be-able-to-roll-through-stop-signs-and-ride
When you are riding in and around drivers in 2 ton machines because your city doesn’t have proper bike infrastructure, you take every single opportunity to avoid them. Call me a “bad cyclist” but I’m going to prioritize my safety over a law or someone’s bad driving any day.
Except Berliner cyclists. They scare me.
That’s not “for absolutely no reason”. Some cyclists make a bad name for the rest.
Edit: Oh my goodness, you guys. I’m not saying hate for cyclists is justified, that I hate all cyclists, or that “all cyclists do x”. Some cyclists ride like they have a death wish. So do some drivers. Anyone, regardless of their vehicle, who is willing to put their life in my hands is someone I want to stay far the fuck away from.
Yeah I know an A-hole driver so all drivers must be A**holes.
No some people just don’t have good reason.
You can say ass on the internet bud, it’s ok.
Every single interaction I have had with a cyclist has been unpleasant, every one.
Logicalfallacy.txt
Not what they said🤣
I think the thread was titled poorly. Anything that gets a lot of hate usually has some sort of reason, even if it may not be justifiable.
Downvoted for saying the truth. Most cyclist I met here are absolutely jerks, they drive not even on the sidelines - no, they fucking drive in the mid of the road and if you try to surpass they move to the left.
For some it’s not their fault they are a bit of a nuisance obviously (those who cycle near the sidewalks, who signal were they are going etc), the cyclist infastructure is non existent here
Trans people
But… bathrooms!!! With the children!!! /s
A lot of that is just unavoidable lookism sadly, maybe I’m too doomer
At the individuated level, it likely plays a part, but it’s got nothing to do with the systemic institutional hatred
I’m terrified of Weiner and vagina and everything in-between.
Edit: wtf is so special that Weiner auto capitalizes?
Weiner is a surname… and also a misspelling of wiener.
Big W
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Women.
Misogyny is extremely widespread and socially acceptable.
Add men to the list.
Misandry is also extremely widespread and socially acceptable.
IMHO both groups have bad apples. In conservative societies, women are often mistreated. In modern/contemporary societies men are often misstreated.
adult men are treated fine in modern societies, it’s boys/teenagers who are feeling increasingly out of place and are turning to misogyny as an outlet
I’d say modern being wealthy modern people.
Trans people, seriously, they just want to live their lives in peace. They’re not here to radicalise anything or to “trick” anyone. They just want to get on with their lives and be left alone.
Furries. They’re some of the nicest people ever. I’m a cosplayer and our worlds intersect a lot. They raise more money for charity than any group as small as they are, they’re kind and accepting, and they’re wicked talented. I trust Furries before muggles anyday
- The homeless
- Children
- Chronically ill
- Disabled
- Sex workers
haven’t seen it in the thread yet, but (most) GMOs. The foods and technology aren’t the problem, it’s a solution to ending hunger. It’s the corporate interests that squash competition that’s the problem.
Nickelback. I mean they’re not good but they’re not really bad either, just a complete nonevent. They don’t deserve the hate they get, they don’t really deserve anything
Yeah, most of the hate is because they were super overplayed for a solid decade. For years the popular radio stations in my area didn’t seem to play anything but Nickelback, green day, Lady Gaga, and pink. In a vacuum, they’re fine. “How you remind me” is pretty good imo. I don’t care for anything else from them. I’ve heard that their guitar player is actually really talented, but I haven’t listened to them enough to know myself
Ah, the common paradox. Nobody wants to listen to Nickelback because it’s overplayed, and nobody drives in New York because of all the traffic.
I dont want to listen to them because there is nearly infinite better music than the overproduced boring stuff. Some tunes are catchy, even seen them live once because my mom wanted company, but they are mid at best imo
The thing is, Nickelback didn’t invent post-grunge or radio grunge, but they were definitely face of it. That era saw a nearly endless stream of cookie cutter Pearl Jam wannabes pop up, and at the same time the entire independent radio industry, which had played a big role in birthing so many counterculture movements, was under threat of corporate consolidation when they were getting popular in the late 90s.
To many millennials, nothing else embodied this dark era for rock music like Nickelback. It was “we have Eddie Vedder at home” meme - shoved down our throats, carbon copied every few months, constantly reminding us that the alternative rock station we grew up with was purchased by Clearchannel and would be transitioned to Latin Beats by the end of the year.
So in that sense, Nickelback may not have killed grunge, but it happily set up shop on its grave, to forever pantomime and disrespect the alternative rock giants laying below. And for a lot of people, that was just too painful.
“All the right reasons” is a solid album by them. Nothing groundbreaking or unique in terms of sound but it’s an enjoyable listen.
Also a phrase that sums up their entire career. And that’s fine. They’re like the musical equivalent of comfort food.
I second this. I love Nickelback. They are unique in their own way .
No, they’re not. That was kind of my point
I think they’re a relic from a time when it was ok/cool to hate on a band or artist for no reason, publicly, without everyone judging you for being a prick.
My theory is that they’re one of, if not the, last bands to fall into the above category, so everyone just uses them as their go-to.
Younger people (in this case meaning people under 35 lol) are just so much more accepting and less judgemental than previous generations. And you love to see it.
Oh, boy, they most certainly deserve the hate. This article sums it up pretty well: https://www.grunge.com/51980/nickelback-became-hated-band-music-industry/
Holy fuck, that article is elitist. Half of the sections seem pointlessly mean, like they’re trying to dunk on them to win popularity points. One of them is just insulting Chad Kroeger for marrying Avril Lavigne, as if a 10+ year marriage is a bad thing. Some valid points buried in there, but the credibility is lost.
Another thing that is hated for no reason. Age-gap relationships.
Some valid points? Some? Well, yeah, there are some that probably could be omitted, but most stands strong.
Maybe I’m biased as I listen to more or less different genres, but there’s nothing wrong on hating on Nickelback.
Why would you hate someone for making music you don’t enjoy? Why hate someone for making money with a successful product? Why not just… Ignore them? You are under no obligation to like them, but there’s only around three arguments in there to actually hate them. There are more arguments in that article that boil down to “it’s successful, so it sucks” than valid criticism.
It’s cool to hate
Being cool is so lame.
Liking something is just a waste of time.
Thanks I’m glad someone got it
It is less “it’s successful, so it sucks” and more “I keep having to listen to something I don’t like, so now I hate it”.
…But you don’t have to listen to it. If it’s on the radio, change the station. The complaints in the article were WAY too in depth for a casual listener to make.
That assumes you have control of the radio station or whatever songs are being played. It isn’t like that for a lot of people.
Don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy rock music (among others), but assholes like Nickelback are making terrible example of it. When someone asks me what I listen to and I reply “rock music” the person often reply along the lines of “ah, ok, like Nickelback?” And that’s just disgusting.
I don’t actively hate on them posting shit on the internet on my own or marching with antiNickelback sign in RL, but when someone asks or when discussion revolves around, I tell him I hate the band.
Being successful musician has nothing to do with it. People like Kanye or Taylor Swift made way more money with their (IMO shitty) music, but I don’t hate them as Nickelback. Because they (probably, or at least not that obviously) don’t ruin the genre they perform in.
Edit: Half of what I want to say is probably lost in translation as English is not my native language, so I can’t make all the nuances I would do in my language.
First, this was never about your opinion. It was about an article that complained about music being used in advertising, songs being popular, and people being inspired by a band. That was the opinion you cited as a good reason to hate them.
Second, how often does that actually happen? Considering it’s an internet meme to shit on them, how often do people cite Nickelback as their main example of rock ahead of, say, Nirvana?
Third, why is it disgusting that people mention a band you dislike? Can you not simply correct them and suggest the bands you ACTUALLY like? Does it have to be “hate” rather than “I’m not a fan”?
Fourth, how the hell did Nickelback ruin rock? Is rock so fragile that the Eagles can’t be enjoyed because of “How you remind me” existing? There are bands far worse than Nickelback, but they aren’t successful so you don’t care. If Nickelback weren’t as successful, you wouldn’t care about them either.
No, makes sense to me.
Conservatives seem to really hate electric cars for some reason. You’d think that for all the bitching they do regarding how Dark Brandon is personally hiking gas prices as part of his pinko commie agenda they’d like to stick it to him and stop paying for gas, but no, they take personal offense as if an electric car is somehow emasculating.
Striking workers.
Living in apartments.
In a lot of cities and towns living in apartments is seen as something that young adults who are renting short term do, and definitely not families or older couples.
Living in an apartment is considerably cheaper for my situation. I drive so much less, I pay for less power, and I have all this parkland around me.
I’m a car guy and I don’t have a garage, that’s annoying, but I commute by escooter now and drive on the weekends. It’s much better.
Possums. They are immune to rabies and eat disease-spreading ticks. Salute your local possum
Oh lots of things
Women
Ethnicities
LGTBQ+
Drag Queens ( they are so entertaining)
Inconvenient truths
People who hang toilet paper the wong way
The French (cowards? They won more battles than anyone and have mastered the art of standing up for themselves)
Furries
Pineapple on pizza ( its good, Ill die on this hill)
Bronies
Caillou - not, that whiney snot deserves it
Marijuana
Ned Flanders
Bell bottoms
Satan ( the word in acient hebrew that we translated to Satan first appears in the book of Job, and would more accuratly be rendered as accuser of prosecutor. In the whole bible satan only goes after 10 people, and only when god tells satan to do it. Half way through satan is like ‘um god? This guys like, broken now. Call it good?’ But that rapscallion god was like ‘no, he could still recover keep hitting him’ and all that because god ‘knew’ Job was the most loyal and devout of his followers and his narcisism just couldnt help but make a grand display of proving it)The pinapple on pizza one is weird to me, do these people not enjoy the idea of contrasting and complimentary flavours?
Savoury + sweet is a good combo and they dont seem to have a problem with tomato on pizza if they are getting technical over ‘fruit’ being an ingredient.Nope, nope, nope. I hate it. Savory + sweet is not my jam. But, you do you. I don’t care what other people eat.
Well, I hate pineapple and putting it into things just kind of ruins the thing you’re adding it to anyway, so there’s that.
I think it’s more that pineapple flavor is really overpowering on a pizza. And on drinks. I think people dislike ginger (to a lesser extent) for the same reason.
pineapple needs to go under the cheese, then its sublime.
People who hang toilet paper the wong wayWait, there’s a wrong way?
Yes, and I will die in this hill.
I told my wife ten years ago that if she hangs it so it’s close to the wall spiders will make their nest there.
After that day it’s always been hung correctly.
There are two right ways, and 1 wrong way.
The right way,
“I have a cat/dog/toddler”
The wrong way.
You are one of Them, aren’t you?
T R I G G E R E D ! ! !
Yup, if you hang it so the “waterfall” is on the right hand side it’s wrong
Drag queens are wonderful. I finally got into Drag Race (just not a reality show viewer generally), and those queens will totally tug your heart strings if you just watch, and they’re real artists too. RIP Chi Chi DeVayne.
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