• @TexasDrunk
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      541 month ago

      I don’t know this author, but when I see articles like this I always think it’s a reverse Hanlon’s razor. I refuse to believe the people reporting on it are stupid and assume they’re fucking evil.

    • @Breezy
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      141 month ago

      I said this in another post, but i believe older democrats who dont keep up with the nonsense of politics could very well just see the name Kennedy and vote for him. If we werent in a very red state i would be worried about my grandfather in his 80s doing exactly that.

  • ArugulaZ
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    501 month ago

    RFK Jr. is a piece of dog shit drying in the hot summer sun. I can’t imagine in any universe this guy (who makes me wish there was a Sirhan Sirhan Jr.) draining votes from Joe Biden when their views are diametrically opposed.

    • @grue
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      361 month ago

      Really, really low-information voters might see the last name and think he’s like JFK.

      • @[email protected]
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        231 month ago

        A shocking amount of Republican antics suddenly made sense to me when I realized they’re just targeting low-information voters.

        • @[email protected]
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          151 month ago

          When was that, when Trump said “I love the poorly educated”?

          His little off-script comments are always interesting to me, because they give insight to what he’s thinking.

          • @jaybone
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            21 month ago

            We all already knew that stuff though. It’s not like when he says this shit out loud it’s something we didn’t already deduce quite easily.

    • @disguy_ovahea
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      71 month ago

      I support Kennedy. RFK’s sister, who said she’ll vote for Biden over her own brother. lol

  • @johannesvanderwhales
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    1 month ago

    They run this same story about third party candidates every election year. The problem is they never show that the people who voted for the third party candidate would’ve definitely gone to one party or the other. People know what’s at stake, why do you assume people voting for RFK Jr would’ve voted for Biden? There’s nothing about his platform that is very left leaning. The most left leaning thing about him is his last name.

    Edit: Just as an example, I voted for Nader in 2000. I’m someone who would’ve voted for Gore otherwise. But guess what? I was voting in a state that wasn’t in close contention at all, so I could vote for a third party without really changing the calculus of who would get elected. The idea that votes for third parties are fungible with votes for major party candidates is just not accurate.

    • @SkybreakerEngineer
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      201 month ago

      Because it’s true every time, and it works a lot. Gore would have won if Nader wasn’t on the ticket, and guess what? The Republicans have been propping up third-party candidates for years.

      Hell, in Florida they got some random dude on the ticket just because he had the same name as the Democrat – and it worked.

      • @TwentySeven
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        91 month ago

        Intuitively it doesn’t even make sense in this case though. Biden is running as the safe ordinary establishment candidate. Trump and RFK Jr are going for the right wing wacko conspiracy theory crowd.

        Unless I see data to the contrary, I’m going to assume that RFK Jr siphons more votes from Trump.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 month ago

      Pollsters do ask “if the election was held today, between X and Y, who would you vote for”, for multiple combinations of candidates, so you can infer some of those opinions. I don’t think they explicitly ask people to rank their choices, or at least I haven’t seen those polls.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 month ago

      Well, there were a certain number of disaffected Sanders primary voters that switched to Trump when Clinton “won” the primary in 2016. It’s hard to believe, given how diametrically opposed Sanders and Trump are, but there it is. Why would they go from a moderate candidate to a far right one? I don’t know, and it’s really hard to pin down in the data.

      That’s kind of the problem we have now. Why would someone that was a Biden supporter flip to RFK, when RFK is very clearly significantly to the right, and way off in crazy-land compared to Biden? I don’t know. But given how likely Trump supporters are to show up, Biden really can’t afford to lose too many to RFK. Or West, for that matter, who is closer to what I’d prefer politically.

      • @[email protected]
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        21 month ago

        Except they’re talking about Vermont, where there are open primaries, meaning they could have been Republicans trying to spoil the democratic nomination. I find that far more believable than a Bernie bro voting for Trump.

        • @[email protected]
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          21 month ago

          I find that far more believable than a Bernie bro voting for Trump.

          I don’t. I was–am–a Sanders supporter, and I’m still pissed that twice the Democratic party has done everything it could to sink Sanders. I voted for Stein in 2016–in a state that easily went blue–because I honestly didn’t think Trump could be as awful as he was. I figured he’d be run-of-the-mill Republican, rather than trying to go straight fascist. I figured, correctly that my vote would make very little difference in a state that is as reliably blue, albeit NIMBY, as it is.

          I was, of course, entirely wrong about how awful Trump could be, and was.

          In 2020 I voted for Biden, although I’m still pissed that yet again the DNC threw all their weight behind him, instead of the more principled candidate.

          And I’ll vote for him again, because any other vote is going to be hurting people that I care about. Even though Cornell West has, IMO, better principles than Biden, voting for West in a state that only went blue because the ‘vote was rigged’ last time would not be a good idea if I don’t want to support a decent into fascism.

          • @[email protected]
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            11 month ago

            Why don’t you believe it that it’s more about the open primary in this one state than Bernie voters voting for Trump?

            You voted for Bernie and still voted for Clinton after all the bullshit that happened within the party and so did I. I would need to see equivalent data from a closed primary state to even begin to believe in this possibility. From their side, it’d be the equivalent of one of us voting for Trump in an open primary back in 2016 when nobody thought he’d win the general in order to spoil the Republican race for the general election.

            • @[email protected]
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              11 month ago

              You voted for Bernie and still voted for Clinton

              No, I voted for Stein. I said that; literally the second sentence there. The state I lived in at the time went strongly for Clinton.

              • @[email protected]
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                11 month ago

                Okay well I added that as an edit and wasn’t able to reread your comment while writing it. Either way the point still stands that you didn’t jump to Trump after Bernie lost the primary and I don’t believe this analysis as it was done in a single state with an open primary. Occam’s Razor states that the simplest solution is the most likely and Republicans trying to spoil the Democratic ticket makes a lot more sense than Bernie bros voting for Trump.

  • @Nobody
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    451 month ago

    I believe the latest polls show Bobby Kennedy Jr. taking slightly more support from Trump. It makes sense. In order to support Kennedy, you have to listen to him first.

    The conspiracy theorist label stops the left from even considering him. The voters who are more likely to give him a chance are on the right. They don’t care if he’s called a conspiracy theorist.

    • Dukeofdummies
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      61 month ago

      I think it’s a mix that varies state from state based off the latest polling.

      • @Nobody
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        91 month ago

        Could be, but it’s likely to tend toward Trump voters as time goes on. They’re less resistant to someone being unpopular in the mainstream media.

        Being called crazy by the media is a prerequisite for right wing viewers to trust a candidate.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 month ago

      now that he’s made a decision, it really just takes one look at who his running mate is that would cause any Leftist to walk away.

  • muse
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    421 month ago

    Idk he really appeals to my desire to have a stupider, less popular trump. And he’s a Kennedy!

    /s, because this is the internet

  • @givesomefucks
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    271 month ago

    The problem is the people running the DNC

    At some point, we’re going to have to make an actual left wing party. Because the only thing the national DNC cares about is money

    They don’t even know how to spend it effectively when they get it.

    • @Bernie_Sandals
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      481 month ago

      Socialist Party of America, Socialist Alternative, The Communist Party of the USA, and plenty others have been trying to run left of the Democratic Party for a century, it won’t work in a FPTP voting system, converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.

      If you want a left wing party other than the Dems, you’re gonna have to change FPTP first.

      • @Eldritch
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        41 month ago

        Or or, and hear me out here. We could do what has happened many different times throughout history. And take over/replace the structure of a party. The Democrats already ignore state and local elections across several red states. What if we lefties/socialist/etc instead of trying to prop up separate parties and separate candidates that always fail. Fielded our own candidates who more closely match our own ideals. And run them as Democrats in these areas. Focusing on funding them ourselves as well as whatever money the DNC apparatus might provide. We might actually start winning. And if we start winning we might actually be able to replace those in the DNC. And if we replace those in the DNC. Things might actually get better.

        • @[email protected]
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          171 month ago

          Isn’t that what they said?

          converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier

          • @Bernie_Sandals
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            01 month ago

            Yeah it was, but they added more context on how it was possible, so I wouldn’t really say it was redundant.

        • @Bernie_Sandals
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          61 month ago

          This is what the DSA has been trying to do and succeeding in for 30 years with candidates like AOC

          • @[email protected]
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            11 month ago

            Succeeding? They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success? Lol, sounds like something a right wing Democrat would say, because that’s a very convenient result for the party itself. You’re either blindly loyal to this party or you must think we’re stupid.

            • @Bernie_Sandals
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              1 month ago

              They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success?

              Almost all of which were elected in the past decade, that’s rather quick for a political change as large as that. And more are being elected every year.

              The DSA literally helped Bernie almost win the presidential primary, that wouldn’t of even come close to happening if the average Democrat was some right wing anti-socialist hawk.

                • @Bernie_Sandals
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                  1 month ago

                  When the military is deployed to crush protestors and trans people have their existence banned by Trump I’ll know who to thank.

                  Kinda weird yall insist on calling him Genocide Joe.

            • @Bernie_Sandals
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              What do you think that purity testing gets you?

                • @Bernie_Sandals
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                  11 month ago

                  She said it was a humanitarian catastrophe from day one of the invasion and called for an immediate ceasefire soon after. Just because she didn’t use the exact word you want, a hugely legally binding and implicating one too mind you, you’re willing to write her off?

                  You do realize that if that is your standard then literally no member of congress or in the executive is good enough for you, right?

                  Not to mention that it’d be hugely irresponsible for any government official to make a comment like that before the ICC ruling is actually finished.

      • @endhits
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        01 month ago

        The Communist Party is a fed honeypot

        • @Bernie_Sandals
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          Lmfao, yeah how long has that been the case? Since they realized I was right and switched to endorsing leftist dems and protesting?

      • @givesomefucks
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        -11 month ago

        converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.

        They’re a private organization…

        They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.

        The only thing the DNC has that a different private party wouldn’t is momentum.

        If they just gonna keep following the rnc, we have no choice but acknowledging we were abandoned long ago already

        • @dariusj18
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          131 month ago

          The DNC is a national political party organization. Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up. It’s actually a pretty well created organizational system, the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it or the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.

          • @Viking_Hippie
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            21 month ago

            The DNC is a national political party organization

            Nope, it’s a private for-profit corporation masquerading as a political party.

            That’s how they’re legally registered and that’s how they were able to argue in court that they can rig the primaries or even just directly appointment nominees if they want to

            Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up

            How adorably naive you are! 🥹

            Biden and the rest of the leadership are part of a clique who took over the party in 1992 and never let go. Maybe some of the names and faces change, but the governing and campaign philosophies haven’t changed since then and won’t no matter how much the people they’re supposed to represent do.

            It’s actually a pretty well created organizational system well-orchestrated political and financial machine

            Fixed it for you

            the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it people who understand how it ACTUALLY works and would prefer a more open, honest and representative party

            the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.

            Yeah, because the Democratic Party operates based on pure consensus of the voters and never act against the will of the people for profit or to maintain the status quo… 🙄

            Are you being paid or are you gaslighting for free?

            • @Bernie_Sandals
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              -11 month ago

              Pelosi doesn’t pick who can enter or who wins a primary, none of the Democratic leadership does. That’s the donor class at best, but even they can get steamrolled over as the left should’ve learned with AOC and Crowley.

          • @[email protected]
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            It’s so pathetic how you all try to convince us that the Dems are a fairly run grassroots organization when we all know that’s complete bullshit. The second there’s a real threat to the party leadership they can and will change the rules with zero options for recourse through the courts. They’ve done it multiple times before and they will do it again.

            At this point I have to assume you have malicious intent towards leftist voters because this is just blatant gaslighting.

        • @Bernie_Sandals
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          The Democratic Party and the DNC and all the affiliates are nothing more than tools for whatever vaguely left of american center interest group wants to use them.

          There’s no massive conspiracy to keep the Democrats Neoliberal, and if there is anything even similar to that, it’s happening behind closed doors in Wall Street, not Washington.

          They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.

          How long have you been involved in politics? I dont mean for that to sound demeaning. We’ve gone from Neoliberal democrats and Clinton gutting social welfare in the 90s to Socialists being integrated into the broader coalition, both parties have changed and will continue to change immensely over time. Ignoring that because you’re upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016 and 2020 and disconnecting completely from the party is just a ticket to irrelevance, and I say that as someone who worked on some of Bernie’s first barnstorm events and both presidential campaigns.

          • @dariusj18
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            31 month ago

            It’s funny the way this thread went. I don’t think people paid attention to how much the Democratic party changed after 2016 after the Bernie peeps found out about how the party is actually structured. But there ended up being 3 types of new grassroots activists.

            1. The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime who instead pulled up their seat at the table and effected change.
            2. The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime and who wouldn’t compromise with anyone and quickly became irrelevant but still cried that the system was still rigged (while their compatriots looked on in disgust lamenting the extra power to affect change they would have if they would vote as a block).
            3. Those who got in and then tried to pull the ladder up to prevent themselves from losing their position the same way they accused others of doing.
            • @Bernie_Sandals
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              01 month ago

              Completely agree, I really don’t know why these people think the DNC is some massive evil force trying to crush the grassroots leftie activism.

              I’m pasting this from one of my earlier comments, but I feel like it’s incredibly relevant.

              If you don’t like the policies of the moderate Democrats then volunteer for your local party, most of the people running your county party are old as fuck, that’s one of the main problems with the Dems. Vote in every single primary for the most progressive option. Donate to and volunteer for your progressive state representatives/senators. Help your coworkers organize a union and increase your lobbying power. Join a progressive/socialist election work group like Progressive Victory or any of the countless others. If you aren’t doing at least one of these regularly, then you have no right to complain that the party isn’t listening to you. You’ve given them no reason to.

              I deeply feel that none of the people in this thread commen