• @Jarix
      link
      302 months ago

      This statement brought to you by Greed® and Capitalism™

  • Track_Shovel
    link
    fedilink
    English
    106
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    OH NO! IT’S WORKING! Someone think of the power companies!

    • nocturne
      link
      fedilink
      202 months ago

      My rural electric coop limits the amount they will pay for end user generated solar power per month. They will never let the bill zero out or be negative.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        32
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        As long as that means there’s a minimum fee that’s going to maintain the grid, I think I’m okay with electric bills not going negative.

        I was worried when Germany shut down their nuclear reactors but it’s great news to hear they’re embracing solar hard

  • @hypnicjerk
    link
    652 months ago

    “people are no longer paying for things they don’t need! this is a disaster!”

  • slazer2au
    link
    English
    472 months ago

    That sounds like a good problem to have.
    Next step is get those power storage systems in to take advantage of negative pricing

      • @cynar
        link
        English
        22 months ago

        That already happens on large scales. E.g. aluminium smelters will sync their smelters to the grid price.

  • @UncleGrandPa
    link
    352 months ago

    Why Are they talking like it’s a bad thing?

    • @stanleytweedle
      link
      English
      202 months ago

      Because it is a bad thing for the financial interests that Business Insider serves.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      12 months ago

      In isolation, it’s very obviously a bad thing, because it makes solar less profitable and might slow down the switch to renewables.

      In a wider context, it can still be seen as a god thing as it means there has been a significant pivot to solar already and luckily it’s also a very solvable problem. There just needs to be more energy storage.

      • @Shanedino
        link
        12 months ago

        Won’t energy storage help drive prices back up too?

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          1
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          I guess that depends. If the costs to invest in storage is cheaper long term than losing money from excess energy, then energy companies would lose less money and thus could offer cheaper prices. But it would definitely help decrease or get rid of negative prices.

    • @cynar
      link
      English
      12 months ago

      It’s a sign of a grid stability issue. A power grid needs to balance input, output and losses. An imbalance in either direction is bad.

      A negative price means the grid is worried about a collapse. They are willing to pay sinks to come online NOW, or for production to go offline.

      The solution isn’t less renewables however! It’s more storage, and better smarts on the grid. Most grids are poorly designed for renewables, and their loads characteristics. That needs to change rapidly.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    322 months ago

    Negative pricing during peak solar hours has also been happening in California. Longer-term negative pricing has been happening for more than a decade in the Columbia River basin, due to high wind (and wind subsidies per MWh) and high hydroelectric flows.

    It’s pretty simple. Negative pricing creates a strong incentive for energy storage. We need more energy storage to support more renewable energy. This was inevitable. I’d love to see a future where people driving their EVs get a pop-up alert: FREE CHARGING AVAILABLE FOR THE NEXT 35 minutes. And the charging network gets paid to take up excess load.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      02 months ago

      I’d like a future where EV’s aren’t a part of it and worrying about such frivolities as “personal transportation” is a foreign concept.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        122 months ago

        All of transportation cannot be shared or multi-passenger because some trips are to places where nobody else is going. Perhaps in dense cities, which will take at least 50 years to rebuild in a walkable way in the US. But people will still want to enjoy natural places - lakes, rivers, mountains, deserts, forests, and snow, and there won’t always be rails built to access those places. Electric mountain bikes with a 500 mile range maybe? Personal transportation will always be around.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          42 months ago

          Ok but if you are in the middle of nature where is this mythical charging station that is going to ping your cell-phone that you should charge your bike in the next 35 minutes? It better not be in the national park you are visiting. I’d also say that in America, removing cars from our national parks and replacing them with rail would be a huge boost to accessibility, and preservation. Hiking/biking trails can and should still exist, but in that world Electric Cars have no place.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            62 months ago

            National parks are great opportunity for sharing rides, rail, or bus. I think Yosemite valley should be 100% free from personal vehicles. I’m talking about climbing a mountain and starting at the trailhead at 6am. Mountain biking or paddle boarding or surfing. Going fishing or hunting in a place nobody else goes. Maybe you’ve never experienced real solitude, but ridesharing and transit isn’t going to get those experiences. There is not a future free from personal transportation. Even in a post apocalypse anarchy, people will build off grid solutions to drive electric ATVs and bikes and buggies and whatever else.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            12 months ago

            There already aren’t gas stations in these remote locations. Why would there need to be EV chargers??

            The thought of having rail service small campsites is comical.

            If we did move to a world where cities are dense enough that public transit did replace cars for most people, cars would still be a viable rental for when leaving the city.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              1
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              Rail service doesn’t go to the campsite. It goes to the trailhead/lodge, then you can hike to your campsite.

      • @Holyginz
        link
        12 months ago

        If it happens its not happening anytime in the near future.

  • TomMasz
    link
    English
    312 months ago

    Sell it to other EU countries. Why is this so hard?

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      182 months ago

      This is happening, to a degree, in most of Europe. Storage is the answer as described in the article. Unfortunately politics are not proactive, you need to break the system before something happens… and now the system is broken, yeah!!!

    • @Serinus
      link
      82 months ago

      Most power is produced in the morning to early afternoon. Most power is used in the evening. We just don’t have that much storage yet.

      It’s hard to say we’re wasting energy though. There’s a whole lot more solar power than what we’re capturing, after all.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        12 months ago

        Also, It’s no easy feat to sell lots of electricity far away.

        It can be done and is being done, but it’s not simple. If it were, Sahara would be covered in solar panels supplying electricity to Europe and Africa.

  • TunaCowboy
    link
    222 months ago

    Yo, businessinsider, suck my dick.

  • MaxMalRichtig
    link
    fedilink
    182 months ago

    I’d say that this a weird way to put it. We just have too few other sustainable plants - mainly wind - in our mix.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    152 months ago

    This is HORRIBLE! How will the JOB CREATORS (who keep laying off thousands of workers) make any MONEY for IMPROVEMENTS to give us CHEAPER and better product?

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    122 months ago

    When nuclear power was first adopted, it was championed as being “too cheap to meter”.

    That was never going to happen, and society will allways need people maintaining power infrastructure.

    So there should be two charges on your power bill, one for power usage and a static one for use of power infrastructure.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      102 months ago

      That split system is how it works where I live. Obviously it’s quite difficult to have competition for the infrastructure. So I can choose who delivers power (well, I mean it comes from the same grid. But different companies buying power from the same spot market charge you different amounts 🤷) but the infrastructure is a monopoly. Not only do we pay a fixed fee for the infrastructure, but also a transfer fee (and taxes, and also taxes on the taxes)

      So in the end I pay more for the infrastructure part than the power consumption.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      12 months ago

      The infrastructure one shouldn’t be static either. I’m not fast charging an electric car to ride my non-electric bicycle, I’m not the reason the grid needs expensive upgrades so much…

      It’s being metered too now. In Belgium it’s calculated on your max peak usage per month, averaged out over 12 months. You fastcharge 2 cars at once while running a washing machine, electric heater, vacuum, a bitcoinmine etc all at once: your infrastructure part of the bill rises. The only stupidness is that they put the “fictional minimum capacity used” too high, so you don’t benefit from practically 0 capacity usage.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    92 months ago

    As predicted. The EU policies on solar will drive the same excess in every country. Germany is also going for hydrogen with a large hydrogen network already built and excess electricity would be a great source of power for green hydrogen production (which is vehemently inefficient, but if it’s free…)

    • @A7thStone
      link
      102 months ago

      One of the nuke plants I work at put in a hydrogen electrolyzer two years ago for this reason, and they are doubling it’s size next year because it worked so well. Their “problem” is different than solar. Nukes constantly put it the same amount of power, so they feed the excess into the electrolyzer when demand is low, but it’s basically the same idea. Electrolysis id inefficient, but if you’re producing more energy than you can feed into the grid you may as well do something useful with it.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        52 months ago

        Same reason I think carbon capture is worth looking into. It should not be a primary solution. I know some fossil fuel groups are behind it today. But in the not too distant future we are going to have excess green energy. Capturing carbon is worth seeing if we can scale to the point of being one of our tools. People are quick to scoff at the idea. Much like I’ve seen with hydrogen. But I’d rather try many options to reverse change that might not be perfect. Instead of hoping we transition power sources and that alone was enough.

        • @cynar
          link
          English
          22 months ago

          The 2 go well together. Hydrocarbons are an excellent carbon store. Carbon also stabilises the hydrogen, so it doesn’t leak through the walls of your containers. Lastly, it can actually to replace oil in things like plastic production.

          In a pinch, you can also burn the result, to get energy back.

        • @A7thStone
          link
          12 months ago

          I agree. Carbon capture is not the solution, no one thing is, but it should be one of the many things we use to work toward a solution.

  • @Fedizen
    link
    82 months ago

    this is like a bitcoin miner’s wet dream.

  • @Ekpu
    link
    62 months ago

    Nevertheless I am paying premium prices to charge my EV on public chargers in germany…

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      22 months ago

      Practically free solar power on the grid does not make the chargers and the infrastructure needed for them free. Tho yeah you’re probably overpaying for it on days with high renewable power generation.