If you’re here because of the “drama”, congratulations, I am too apparently. If you’re also here with the position that a vegan diet is unhealthy in humans, I’m begging you for a toilet break’s worth of your time. The contents of this post are wholly divorced from ethics or environmental concerns, are not here to “own you with facts and logic”, and are focused solely on human health through the quoting of scientific literature. For as many of these as I can, I have provided links to the full text on the NCBI’s PubMed Commons in the interest of transparency.

  • It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes […] Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. —Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (2016)
  • Based on this systematic review of randomized clinical trials, there is an overall robust support for beneficial effects of a plant-based diet on metabolic measures in health and disease. —Translational Psychiatry (2019)
  • In most countries a vegan diet has less energy and saturated fat compared to omnivorous control diets, and is associated with favourable cardiometabolic risk profile including lower body weight, LDL cholesterol, fasting blood glucose, blood pressure and triglycerides. —PLoS One meta-analysis (2018)
  • This comprehensive meta-analysis reports a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (-25%) and incidence from total cancer (-8%). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (-15%) of incidence from total cancer. —Critical Reviews in Food Science and Nutrition (2017)
  • The present systematic review and meta-analysis showed a 15% and a 21% reduction in the relative risk of CVD and IHD, respectively, for vegetarians compared to nonvegetarians, but no clear association was observed for total stroke or subtypes of stroke. In addition, an 18% reduction in the relative risk of IHD was observed among vegans when compared to nonvegetarians, although this association was imprecise. —European Journal of Nutrition (2023)
  • Adequate intake of dietary fiber is associated with digestive health and reduced risk for heart disease, stroke, hypertension, certain gastrointestinal disorders, obesity, type 2 diabetes, and certain cancers. According to consumer research, the public is aware of the benefits of fiber and most people believe they consume enough fiber. However, national consumption surveys indicate that only about 5% of the population meets recommendations, and inadequate intakes have been called a public health concern […] The IOM defines total fiber as the sum of dietary fiber and functional fiber. Dietary fiber includes nondigestible carbohydrates and lignins that are intrinsic and intact in plants; functional fiber includes isolated, nondigestible carbohydrates that have beneficial physiological effects in humans. Common sources of intrinsic fiber include grain products, vegetables, legumes, and fruit. —American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine (2017)
  • [R]ecommendations to increase fruit and vegetable consumption, while decreasing saturated fat and dairy intake, are supported [for asthma] by the current literature. Mediterranean and vegan diets emphasizing the consumption of fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes, while reducing or eliminating animal products, might reduce the risk of asthma development and exacerbation. Fruit and vegetable intake has been associated with reduced asthma risk and better asthma control, while dairy consumption is associated with increased risk and might exacerbate asthmatic symptoms. —Nutrition Reviews (2020)
  • Over the past two decades, a substantial body of consistent evidence has emerged at the cellular and molecular level, elucidating the numerous benefits of a plant-based diet (PBD) for preventing and mitigating conditions such as atherosclerosis, chronic noncommunicable diseases, and metabolic syndrome. —Nutrients comprehensive review (2023)
  • Consumption of vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, is associated with lower levels of plasma lipids, which could offer individuals and healthcare professionals an effective option for reducing the risk of heart disease or other chronic conditions. —Nutrition Reviews systematic review and meta-analysis (2017)
  • After adjusting for basic demographic characteristics, medical specialty, and health behaviours (smoking, physical activity) in model 2, participants who followed plant-based diets had 73% lower odds of moderate-to-severe COVID-19 (OR 0.27, 95% CI 0.10 to 0.81) compared with participants who did not follow plant-based diets. Similarly, participants who followed either plant-based diets or pescatarian diets had 59% lower odds of moderate-to-severe COVID-19 (OR 0.41, 95% CI 0.17 to 0.99) compared with those who did not follow these diets. —British Medical Journal (2021)
  • Current research suggests that switching to a plant-based diet may help increase the diversity of health-promoting bacteria in the gut. However, more research is needed to describe the connections between nutrition, the microbiome, and health outcomes because of their complexity and individual heterogeneity. —Nutrients systematic review (2023)
  • [T]his systematic review shows that plant-based diets and their components might have the potential to improve cancer prognosis, especially for breast, colorectal and prostate cancer survivors. —Current Nutrition Reports (2022)
  • The data discussed in this systematic review allow us to conclude that plant-based diets are associated with lower BP and overall better health outcomes (namely, on the cardiovascular system) when compared with animal-based diets. —Current Hypertension Reports (2023)
  • The present systematic review provides evidence that vegan and vegetarian diets are associated with lower CRP levels, a major marker of inflammation and a mediator of inflammatory processes. —Scientific Reports (2020)
  • Evidence strongly suggests that plant-based dietary patterns that are abundant in fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, and whole grains with less emphasis on animal foods and processed foods are a useful and a practical approach to preventing chronic diseases. Such dietary patterns, from plant-exclusive diets to plant-centered diets, are associated with improved long-term health outcomes and a lower risk of all-cause mortality. Given that neurodegenerative disorders share many pathophysiological mechanisms with CVD, including oxidative stress, inflammation, and vascular damage, it is reasonable to deduce that plant-based diets can ameliorate cognitive decline as well. —Advances in Nutrition (2019)
  • This umbrella review offers valuable insights on the estimated reduction of risk factors for cardiometabolic diseases and cancer, and the CVDs-associated mortality, offered by the adoption of plant-based diets through pleiotropic mechanisms. Through the improvement of glycolipid profile, reduction of body weight/BMI, blood pressure, and systemic inflammation, A/AFPDs significantly reduce the risk of ischemic heart disease, gastrointestinal and prostate cancer, as well as related mortality. —PLoS One (2024)
  • In this community‐based cohort of US adults without cardiovascular disease at baseline, we found that higher adherence to an overall plant‐based diet or a provegetarian diet, diets that are higher in plant foods and lower in animal foods, was associated with a lower risk of incident cardiovascular disease, cardiovascular disease mortality, and all‐cause mortality. —Journal of the American Heart Association (2019)
  • In this meta-analysis of prospective observational studies, we found that greater adherence to a plant-based dietary patterns was inversely associated with the risk of type 2 diabetes. These findings were broadly consistent across subgroups defined by various population characteristics and robust in sensitivity analyses.—JAMA Internal Medicine (2019)
  • Our findings suggest that a shift in diet from a high consumption of animal-based foods, especially red and processed meat, to plant-based foods (e.g., nuts, legumes, and whole grains) is associated with a lower risk of all-cause mortality, CVD, and T2D. Thus, a change in dietary habits towards an increment of plant-based products appears to be important for cardiometabolic health. —BMC Medicine systematic review and meta-analysis (2023)
  • Not only is there a broad expansion of the research database supporting the myriad benefits of plant-based diets, but also health care practitioners are seeing awe-inspiring results with their patients across multiple unique subspecialties. Plant-based diets have been associated with lowering overall and ischemic heart disease mortality; supporting sustainable weight management; reducing medication needs; lowering the risk for most chronic diseases; decreasing the incidence and severity of high-risk conditions, including obesity, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and hyperglycemia; and even possibly reversing advanced coronary artery disease and type 2 diabetes. —The Permanente Journal (2016)
  • @RoseEnglish
    23•18 days ago

    Meanwhile Lemmy.World moderator Rooki:

    To be honest linking something like meat to death of people is like saying everybody that breathed air died.

    correlation != causation

    (comment source, thread archive)

    • VeganPizza69 ⓋMEnglish
      18•18 days ago

      Rooki is a science denier - confirmed.

      Unfortunately, running or managing a Lemmy instance doesn’t come with requirements to read science.

    • TheTechnician27OPMEnglish
      7•18 days ago

      It’s so genuinely distressing to me that such an absurd comment got nearly even upvotes and downvotes. I swear that the average carnist is so far in denial that they’ll upvote even the most insane, goalpost-moving non-arguments to preserve the industry-brainwashed fantasy they live in where vegans are at any given time a gram of protein away from collapsing like a cartoon skeleton. You absolutely know that if a plant-based diet had been in that headline as being positively correlated with T2D (it isn’t, as shown above) instead of meat, Rooki’s response wouldn’t have been “well geez we’re all going to die anyway so why does it matter?” And if it was (at which point, good on them for consistency, I guess?), it would’ve been a 25-to-1 downvote ratio with omnis and vegans alike piling on and mocking it.

      This reminds me of theoretical physicist Angela Collier talking about crackpots who send her their rebuttals to general relativity etc., analogizing them to someone walking into a restaurant, calling the head chef a fraud who can’t cook, saying their food is much better, and presenting the chef with a takeout box full of Play Doh to eat as proof. That is to say that it’s not even just an incorrect counterargument; it’s so asinine that it’s a complete non sequitur not even rising to a counterargument. Can LW really add peer-reviewed scientific information as a requirement to their ToS when this is who’s evaluating its merits?

  • @ccunningEnglish
    22•18 days ago

    Quick suggestion: All that linked text is hard to read. Try unlinking the source from the pull quote and instead link the source listed at the end?

    • TheTechnician27OPMEnglish
      14•18 days ago

      You’re 100% correct. I started with a format that made sense for a few articles, and then when it snowballed, I had too much tunnel vision to see it was a problem. It should hopefully be better now.

  • @Fleur__English
    10•18 days ago

    Veganism is unhealthy because of all the mental damage I get talking to people about it online

  • katy ✨English
    8•15 days ago

    this makes the need for lemmy to add the ability for community owners to move communities to different servers all the more necessary

  • @[email protected]English
    7•18 days ago

    I can only speak for myself but I appreciate the effort. Realistically I don’t have high hopes for the longevity of this comm. I assume one or another of the antivegan admins will continue to find whatever flimsy reason to shut down discussions that make them unhappy.

    I strongly recommend anyone interested in reading about veganism on the fediverse check out the comms on vegantheoryclub or hexbear. If your server doesn’t federate (e.g. world) make an account on one that does. Both of those places are administrated by vegans and suck a lot less.

  • @wowwoweowzaEnglish
    6•16 days ago

    This is my first exposure to Lemmy drama. I’ve only read the ToS announcement and thread and this. Seems like a great responde. Here’s wishing You all the Best.

    • dream_weaselEnglish
      10•16 days ago

      Maybe this isn’t the place for this discussion, but why be this way? Is it because you feel like this is the treatment you get around the rest of lemmy or the rest of the world? Is the vegan day-to-day so bad that you need a place you can use a made up pseudo-slur about the majority of the population to other like-minded folks?

      I could be convinced to change my diet, but it’s not even possible to engage a vegan where they are (vegan subs) to ask honest questions unless I happen into an unrelated comment chain. I’m never going to subscribe to the vegan religion, but from the perspective of personal health I am interested in the principles and the “how to”.

      This is a great hook post, and unlike reddit this stuff frequently bubbles to the top of “all” so you’re getting traffic from people like me. Unfortunately it seems like this kind of good post is the cheese in the mouse trap. It may have been you who specifically asked me to listen to vegans, I told you I wouldn’t because of the vitriol. I’m not asking you to change, but I am asking why you feel like you do.

      • TheTechnician27OPMEnglish
        9•15 days ago

        Why be this way?

        I’m not Beaver, but I think they’re understandably frustrated at consistently being berated for trying to do good by adherents to a prevailing belief system whose widespread harm goes almost completely unchallenged by society. You can see that even this post in a vegan community which is nothing but a polite ask followed by robust scientific sources is at a 75% upvote ratio because veganism is so irrationally hated by society at large that overwhelming scientific evidence for its healthfulness is a target of disapproval.

        is the vegan day-to-day so bad

        Pretty nice overall. Food’s cheaper, you tend to feel like you have more energy, you often end up discovering interesting and really great new foods that you wouldn’t have with a diet revolving around animal products, and your GI tract works like clockwork. Super bizarre, that last one, but I can’t not mention it.

        made up pseudo-slur

        All slurs are made up, but this isn’t one inherently; “carnism” is just a way to describe the ideology “in which people support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat. Carnism is presented as a dominant belief system supported by a variety of defense mechanisms and mostly unchallenged assumptions”. (Quoted from Wikipedia because they summarize it excellently.) It’s a way to challenge that the idea that “veganism” and “vegetarianism” are ideologies while carnism is just “normal”. It can be used as a slur, but that’s every word for an ideology ever.

        I could be convinced to change my diet, but

        You should know that vegans get this all the time. Because vegans care about animals and the environment (the latter of which of course helps the animals too), this comes off as “you better police your tone or the animal killing will continue, and you wouldn’t want that, now would you?” This could work, because ultimately all vegans want is to see as few animals exploited as possible, but it can ring hollow for reasons in the next paragraph.

        it’s not even possible to engage vegans where they are

        People very often engage extremely politely outside of vegan subs in relevant areas (e.g. posts to news articles about animal welfare) and are downvoted to hell for it, their voices drowned out by ridiculous, bad-faith pseudo-arguments which are easily debunked and regurgitated so often that there’s a running joke about vegan bingo. It’s frustrating to vegans when carnists have an absolute right to make fun of vegans as malnourished zealots whose way of living is often compared to a fate worse than death, is tantamount to child abuse if imposed on one’s children, and is so tenuously held that they just need to “try a cheeseburger” and wake up out of the Matrix. But if they so much as speak out of turn (like what Beaver said is pretty tame in the grand scheme of things, right?) after being berated constantly for just existing, let alone politely broaching the subject where it’s relevant, then this is why nobody likes vegans and we were right to make fun of you this whole time and just for that, I’m going to go kill a chicken and vegans are religious extremists.

        I’m never going to subscribe to the vegan religion

        Vegans tend to distinguish a plant-based diet from being vegan, as vegans stick to it as a way of promoting animal welfare, but more importantly, there are products outside of their diet such as leather that they don’t consume either. So you’re interested in a PBD, which is still a huge reduction in harm. People who haven’t tried one often treat a PBD as a huge commitment, but as a hobbyist cook with not a lot to spend on ingredients, it’s one of my favorite parts of being vegan. I have a really hard time making and sticking to lifestyle changes, but I consider it one of the easiest things I’ve ever done because I feel better, and I enjoy the food I cook and eat more than before. You might be interested in /c/homecooks on vegantheoryclub.org or /r/veganfoodporn on Reddit.

        I am interested in the principles and the “how to”.

        For a while, I landed on the idea that I would be pescetarian and stayed there for a while. From a health perspective, a lot of the benefits of a plant-based diet also come with the so-called Mediterranean diet, and so that’s what I wanted. I weaned off of fish largely for environmental reasons at the time, although I also decided that if I wouldn’t want to kill a fish with my bare hands, I wouldn’t want to pay someone else to do that either. And lastly, I stopped consuming animal products altogether after watching the Dominion documentary. I was never vegan because I was of the opinion that it only slightly reduced the amount of harm from vegetarianism and that vegans were bitter idealogues trying to enforce purism. After the documentary, however, I realized that instead of being 90% of the way there, I was maybe more like 50% if I’m being generous. And so I started cutting out animal products like dairy.

        As for “how to maintain that”, I think I had a good experience sticking to it because I was able to focus on eliminating specific foods and how to replace them rather than just being thrown into figuring out how to replace large components of my diet. While it is entirely possible to get on and stick to a plant-based diet cold turkey when doing it for ethical reasons, if it’s strictly for dietary ones, then I suggest just cutting out red meat first. This is what I did, and I think it’s a good starting point both if you’re concerned about ethics and the environment and if you don’t care about either of those and just want to be healthier.

        The key to a PBD is nonperishable staples like legumes, nuts, seeds, and grains. Those can be paired with fruits and vegetables. For plant-based milk, I highly recommend Almond Breeze unsweetened (not vanilla), as I think this is about as close to milk as you can get without drinking the sweetened kind (which destroys a huge health benefit of switching to plant milk) or drinking pea milk (which is the best but is expensive). But if almond milk isn’t your thing, the amount of variety for plant milk is so enormous that you’ll probably land on something you like if you keep trying. I think it’s paramount to have a wide variety of dry spices bought in bulk, because these along with sauces take what can be boring foods and turn them into something incredible. This isn’t so much a concern for a health-centric PBD, but getting mired down in plant-based alternatives to animal-based ones (I think with the exceptions of milk and yogurt) is the easiest way to make it as hard as possible, because it’s really not sustainable if you have any sort of a budget. Lastly, knowledge of what non-homemade foods are plant-based just comes with time, but if you’re doing it for health reasons rather than ethical ones, the fact that milk powder rears its head in places it has no business being would be much less of a concern.

        This is a great hook post

        Much appreciated. I think the stigma of vegans as people physically wasting away for their beliefs ought to be addressed first because it’s really just incorrect, and while there’s a kernel of truth because nutritional deficiencies can happen if you’re extremely stupid about it (fruitarians come to mind), I think a huge part of it comes both from industry propaganda and from something people can hide behind so they don’t have to confront the ethics of animal agriculture (“well it’s that or being healthy, so…”). It’s possible to go plant-based and have nutritional deficiencies, but it’s also possible to have a terrible, nutritionally deficient omnivorous diet. If done right (which shouldn’t be a lot if you don’t have some sort of medical issue; I supplement B12 via nutritional yeast and am otherwise pretty loose with my diet, and my labs are always great, even much better than before), you can easily be healthier than on an omnivorous diet in huge part thanks to the reduction in saturated fat and the increase in unsaturated fats and fiber.

        • dream_weaselEnglish
          2•16 days ago

          Thank you much for the verbose reply. I think I have misunderstood the concept of veganism up until this point, conflating its fundamentals with PBD. It seems like the PBD is actually a byproduct of the concept of veganism rather than the starting premise.

          That being said, I don’t think I can engage with the “vegan community” in a way that is satisfying to either party. I grew up eating an animal protein every meal, but I don’t feel like that’s really necessary or beneficial in the long run. There are lots of good reasons to go PBD, but I’m looking at it like alcohol: I enjoy it, but I don’t need to have some every single day. Cutting back (or out) is objectively good, but I’m just not interested in completely removing animal protein from my life. Maybe for that reason, a key problem I have getting comfortable in a PBD is I don’t want to eat plants pretending to be meat or dairy or cheese: the ones that I have had are like if I described to a scientist what gas station cheese / butter tastes and feels like. I would rather eat plant dishes that are tasty and nutritious in their own right without a supplement sprinkle / other ingredients pretending to be eggs or milk or what have you.

          It’s not easy to get started building a repertoire of meals, but you’ve at least given some good tips besides letting me know I’m looking in the wrong place / barking up the wrong tree.

          I will reread what you wrote again tomorrow.

          • @[email protected]English
            5•16 days ago

            Praise be the good faith interaction.

            Indian, Ethiopian, some Mexican (e.g. bean stews), the Buddhist food in SEA and EA food (Thai in particular) are all great places to look for food that is “not trying to be” carnist variations.

            Almost all of us grew up eating animals every day, I would strongly recommend the dominion documentary linked. It is not an easy watch but it is important to know what is actually going on. Unlike alcohol, the harm isn’t just to you. The change seems harder than it is, realistically almost immediately you’ll probably feel better (combination of health + feeling good about your choices) which makes it a lot easier.

            • dream_weaselEnglish
              3•15 days ago

              I’ll give a watch when the holiday weekend is over, probably not great content for my 2 kids under 4.

              Favorite Ethiopian dish? Been wanting to try making something in that vein.

              • @[email protected]English
                3•15 days ago

                TBH I don’t make it enough to have a favourite dish, my sister does more than me and I just love everything she pulls out at family gatherings. I’m more Szechuan/Thai/Indian and weird experimental, improv food myself.

                Shiro wat is pretty good. A thick soup made of chickpea flour (buy at an Indian grocery, everywhere else it will be more expensive and lower quality) thickened with nut-butter. A comforting and simple meal.

                Everything berbere I’ve had is great. Actually making something based on that mix today but it’s more a everything leftover in the fridge than recipe haha.

                Sis makes some sort of peanut stew. Idk what it’s called but it slaps, it’s almost like satay in that it’s a thick, rich saucy stew. Instead of fish and like flavours though it leans earthy. Good shit, may find if you look around.

              • TheTechnician27OPMEnglish
                2•15 days ago

                Without elaborating further, I’ll agree that no kid should be going anywhere near this documentary.

        • EevolticEnglish
          2•15 days ago

          Thank you so much for this reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. I wish more people would read it as with your other comments!

  • SagXDEnglish
    -8•18 days ago

    I don’t know. I am not vegan but I am Vegetarian(I can’t live without Milk, Sorry). I am healthy as fuck.

    • TheTechnician27OPMEnglish
      23•18 days ago

      “Milk” is the one that surprises me the most, simply because I believe plant milk trounces dairy milk in basically every aspect except price (which is in my experience improving but exists due to massive subsidies toward the dairy industry that plant milk doesn’t ever receive, not its own intrinsic merits. Even just taking the subsidies away would reverse this, and if the subsidies flipped, the difference would be enormous). You definitely can live without it, and it’s even a lot better in most respects.

      • The nutritional profile of plant milk is generally better. Wheras it lacks the ~8g of protein per ~250 mL that typical dairy milk has (you can get versions fortified with 8g protein, though, if you want), it makes up for it by being free of sugar (if you get unsweetened) compared to the typical 8–12g of lactose; having no lactose which can ferment in people with intolerance (plenty of people only realize they were intolerant after they stop drinking milk and no longer feel symptomatic); having substantially fewer calories; and having no or extremely minimal saturated fat and cholesterol (the fats plant milks do tend to have are very healthy mono- and polyunsaturated ones). Almond milk – by far the most common – has considerably more calcium (~35–45% compared to ~20–30%) and Vitamin D (~35% compared with ~20–25%) per serving than dairy milk. Whereas dairy milk is fortified with Vitamin D3, plant milk is fortified with D2; the mechanism for metabolizing the calcium is less efficient in D2 than D3, so this difference is offset to some extent. Oat milk more closely aligns with typical dairy milk calcium and Vitamin D contents, so it’s slightly less nutritious than dairy milk in this respect. Plant milk is generally also fortified with micronutrients such as Vitamins A, B2, and B12 to meet or exceed what dairy milk typically contains. That 8g of protein can easily be made up for elsewhere, as you only need around 0.8g per day per kilogram that you weigh (around 55g in a 70kg adult).
      • Plant milk takes months to go bad, whereas dairy milk that hasn’t been ultrapasteurized (at which point it becomes as expensive as or even more expensive than plant milk and often still has a somewhat shorter shelf life) maybe lasts two weeks from the date of purchase. This means that you can easily stockpile it between sales (I often keep around 15L) and it won’t go bad.
      • Plant milk has an absolute ton of variety. There’s almond, soy, coconut, oat, cashew, rice, peanut, macadamia, pea, banana, pumpkin seed, pistachio (this one’s one of the wildest beverages I’ve ever seen; it’s like $10 a liter lmao), etc. You can make any of these at home and even fortify it with relative ease and for pretty cheap if you’re so inclined, although it’s not my preferred choice just because I like the consistent experience that grocery store milk offers. Within these categories, pretty much all of them have sweetened, unsweetened, chocolate, vanilla, and vanilla unsweetened, while the main ones like almond and oat milk tend to have much more exotic varieties like banana, matcha, pumpkin spice, nog, hot chocolate, and extra creamy. And even then, different brands will offer different experiences. The only one that’s absent is strawberry, and it vexes me to this day. You can make it on your own, but I have never in my life seen a single strawberry plant milk sold in a grocery store. Do I like strawberry milk? No. Do I think it’s weird that I’ve never seen a company experiment with it? Absolutely. So I guess if you specifically can’t live without grocery store strawberry milk, you can ignore this entire point. Get on it, plant milk companies.
      • Every type of plant milk is better in every conceivable way for the environment.
      • Every type of plant milk is better in every conceivable way for animal welfare.
      • Completely subjective, but dairy milk has this weird, slightly sour taste that I never liked growing up that makes plant-based milks taste so much more clean and refreshing to me.
      • SagXDEnglish
        -1•18 days ago

        Thanks for this writeup. But for me It’s not about nutrition I just love Dairy Products and Sweets(I know non-vegan can say the same for Meat and stuff). In my country no one tried making Sweets with Plant based milk(I will experiment in future see if it’s taste good or not). Also, Just for fact I buy milk directly from a nearby cow farm.

        • @nforminvasionEnglish
          5•17 days ago

          Congrats you’re still supporting the raping of cows, the separation of a mother and child, and the killing of calves.

            • @[email protected]MEnglish
              2•6 days ago

              Aren’t most dairies in India (I presume) owned by people who aren’t Hindu, like Sikhs? A billion Indians cannot consume dairy every single day without unholy things being done to cattle. Maybe you get milk from the one dairy in India that miraculously doesn’t abuse cattle, but that means someone else can’t get their milk there and has to use the cruel stuff.

                • @[email protected]MEnglish
                  1•3 days ago

                  And what would that look like? Because I think it looks like not enslaving, raping and killing intelligent creatures.

            • @[email protected]English
              11•17 days ago

              May I ask, is artificial insemination is still practiced if cows are holy? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

              • SagXDEnglish
                1•17 days ago

                No, I guess. But people with greed sure practice this. Because they just want money what you can expect from them.