• u/lukmly013 (lemmy.sdf.org)
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    29611 months ago

    A highly compatible design with no ads, unnecessary images, videos, animations, scripts that goes straight to point delivering you exactly the information you need and nothing else? Something that’s easily accessible even with old feature phones allowing older people to get information easily?
    Simply something that loads instantly and just works?

    Who would want that?

    • Norgur
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      11 months ago

      Found the backend dev. “CUT THIS AESTHETICS NONSENSE! GIMME THE VARIABLE CONTENTS ALREADY! WE’RE 3.54 NANOSECONDS BEHIND!”

      • @Dasnap
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        5511 months ago

        Frontend: “Come on, this needs at least some flair. This isn’t the 90s.”

        Throws React at it

        • @residentmarchant
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          1011 months ago

          React ugh, everybody is using NextJs these da- …oh, what’s that? We’ve moved on already?

        • voxel
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          11 months ago

          yeah, just css is enough.
          you don’t need js unless you need to fetch data dynamically.
          you can do all of your animations, dropdowns and transitions in css.
          like this menu i made. no js in sight.

          https://streamable.com/4ba0gg

          also fully accessible and you can tab right into it without clicking enter or whatever
          (and respects prefers-reduced-motion)

      • @[email protected]
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        1211 months ago

        basic responsiveness to support most devices

        Dude, that is the mother of responiveness. It literally supports all the devices.

      • @[email protected]
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        111 months ago

        Entirely true.

        I’m currently working on a little project that’s interesting to me (a low-spoiler walkthrough system for adventure games) and after a lot of back and forth, I decided to cut all of JS out of the picture. Just get rid of all of it, and do good old 90s server-side rendered HTML with modern CSS placed on top of it.

        And that’s, honestly, a joy. The first draft of a page looks like the first screenshot, then you add some semantic classes to the html and throw some simple CSS at it and it looks acceptably neat. And I could get rid of so much janky toolchain I just fail to understand.

    • @chorkpop
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      11 months ago

      No one who is going to pay you wants that. All they care about is user engagement.

    • panCat
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      -2811 months ago

      deleted by creator

  • @ghariksforge
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    13211 months ago

    The page at the top looks perfectly fine. It’s useful, it gets the job done and it’s lightweight.

          • @[email protected]
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            11 months ago

            Shorter lines are easier to read because it’s easier to find the beginning of the next one. Rule of thumb is indeed a maximum of about 80 characters, go take a random printed book and see how long the lines are they’re like that for a reason. (Newspapers are shorter because smaller print, also, more opportunities for headlinest).

            The contrast and line spacing stuff – debatable. But adjusting line-width is pretty much a must. Not doing anything somewhat worked on 4:3 monitors but it’s definitely awkward on 16:9 and on 21:9 your head is definitely on a swivel.

            Oh and those large margins are very useful for things like footnotes, btw, or meta-information about the text (like those textbook “this is an exercise” stylings, just move the marking over to the margin). There’s also plenty of place for a hierarchical list of contents, always on screen, and various other nav stuff. None of that will degrade loading or runtime performance to any noticable degree.

            Also of course note that that’s for text-heavy content, stuff you read as in reading an article or book, not stuff you look at in the sense of “reading” a poster. In this case you can e.g. turn those bullet-points into rectangular areas (also come up with a sixth one, then) and display them in a grid, each containing, well, what they contain now but also a link to further information. You see that pattern all over the place on the modern web and it’s a good one. Would need quite a bit more content than is present on those websites, though, otherwise you have more navigation shenanigans than content. You don’t need a fucking library index for a post-it note.

            Source: My HTML is rusty as fuck but I know TeX.

            • @[email protected]
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              511 months ago

              Counterargument: if you need narrower text, you can adjust the size of your browser window. If I want wider text, you’ve capped it.

              • @[email protected]
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                11 months ago

                That is absolutely horrible UX: User interaction should not be required for your site to be legible. If you are one of the 0.000001% of people who wants all line breaks to vanish configure reader view yourself and hit that button, but don’t force 99.999999% of users to make that extra click.

                …also, nothing whatsoever is stopping you from making line width adjustable within the page itself.

          • @[email protected]
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            211 months ago

            I’m on mobile and the only difference i see is the lines of text on the “better” one are spaced more so I have to scroll farther.

            Is it more legible? No, I’m not a fucking donkey and I can read a block of text like a normal person.

            • @[email protected]
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              211 months ago

              It’s mostly about line width on desktop, the rest is whimsical filler content. Compare the sites in landscape orientation.

        • @[email protected]
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          511 months ago

          Hate it, fuck that low contrast bullshit that makes me think my glasses are dirtier than they actually are.

    • @[email protected]
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      411 months ago

      Oh thank goodness my browser doesn’t have to download hundreds of js and assets just to use a damn calculator

  • Square Singer
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    10811 months ago

    Good, that we have specialists for both and nobody is advocating that everyone should be doing full-stack work… oh wait.

    • @[email protected]OP
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      11 months ago

      Full-stack development and devops: When you need an entire IT department but only want to pay for one person.

    • Venator
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      4011 months ago

      As a full stack developer I can assure you I can easily produce the result displayed in both those panels in the image 😏

    • @[email protected]
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      1211 months ago

      “Full-stack” is just a term invented by stingy employers who try to get 2 for the price of 1

    • UnknownCircle
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      511 months ago

      Specialists, ah I wish I could experience that. Maybe then I would be able to see my long lost love c++ again. Instead, I must give my love freely. Javascript, Java, Kubernetes, Go, many names flit through when profit is the goal. Someday maybe, hopefully, ChatGPT will end my tired soul.

  • @DharkStare
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    6211 months ago

    As a backend developer who occasionally has to work on the frontend, that top image is pretty accurate although it requires bootstrap smeared all over to pretty things up a bit. After that it will have the “Good Enough” seal of approval.

  • @suodrazah
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    11 months ago

    in Paris

    in Paris

    in Paris

    in Paris

    What is this bloat? Trash site.

    • @[email protected]OP
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      1511 months ago

      Honestly you don’t even need to make the text field visible. If they can’t touch-type that’s on them.

      • @suodrazah
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        2011 months ago

        I would prefer a dropdown list of all possible coordinate combinations.

        • @[email protected]OP
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          1811 months ago

          Pfft just go there and feel the air yourself. Knowing the weather in advance is bloat anyway. If medieval sailors could launch ships without weather info and survive 30% of the time, you can too.

          • @suodrazah
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            811 months ago

            Imagine having to rely on physical senses to determine the weather, how pathetic. Honestly if you can’t infer weather patterns from learned data then better get back to that CSS.

    • @[email protected]
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      11 months ago

      It’s meant to be used like this:

      
      curl localhost:8000/?city=Paris | grep Temperature >> TemperaturesOfTheWorld.log
      
    • @[email protected]
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      211 months ago

      You can see the programmer used Copilot, who in their right mind would want to type <?php echo htmlspecialchars($city); ?> four times

  • @[email protected]
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    3111 months ago

    I can make HTML look alright if I have to and it’s simple enough requirements.

    The real hell is making it look good in an email. Oh, you used something from the last 20 years of HTML/CSS progress? Well fuck you.

  • @Matriks404
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    11 months ago

    After some time toying with CSS I have decided to fuck it and whenever I need to make a website I will just either:

    • Make a plain website with no virtually no styling.
    • Use bootstrap or some other similar shit.
    • @ElectricCattleman
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      211 months ago

      I used to like bootstrap. Still do. But it has some faults… Depending on your needs you’re loading a lot of CSS you aren’t using.

      Bootstrap 5.3 is 59kb before gzip. 6700 lines of code. That’s a lot to just apply some simple styles.

      There are a ton of lighter weight alternatives nowadays.

  • @nxfsi
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    1711 months ago

    No bloat, no Javashit, no problem

  • N3Cr0
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    1511 months ago

    From my experience, devs be like:

    Backend, yay! Frontend, nay! … and I the end, not even the backend works properly.

        • @daddycool
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          10 months ago

          deleted by creator

          • Norgur
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            3411 months ago

            BUT IN THE END, THE SERVER THREW AN ERROR

    • @[email protected]
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      511 months ago

      “Hey Bob, you did add a retry when you added that call to service X?

      Umm, no?

      Oh for fuck’s sake!”

      All the fucking time.

    • @Dasnap
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      411 months ago

      deleted by creator

      • tool
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        11 months ago

        This is why I got all of our devs to start building with the target of a Docker container in mind.

        And for the ones who still won’t or can’t wrap their brains around Docker, I run their shit through a Github Actions workflow that spits out their ugly baby as a Docker container. In the end, I don’t give a shit what it is, your Rube-Goldberg piece of shit is getting stuffed into a Docker container.

        “It works on my machine!” Yeah, well, your machine is now everyone’s machine thanks to the magic of containers. Now fix your broken shit so PagerDuty doesn’t call me at 3am again. Fuck.

    • JackGreenEarth
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      211 months ago

      I much rather frontend that backend, I like making things that people actually see.

  • panCat
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    911 months ago

    As a java/python developer who has been hooked to front end since last 3 years I feel this is apt !.😂😂