i’ve been thinking about how people approach health when they’re feeling unwell. some folks prefer to go to a doctor or use pharmaceutical medicine from the pharmacy, while others choose herbal remedies or alternative treatments. personally, i prefer using herbal remedies because i believe that all the ingredients in pharmaceutical medicines ultimately come from nature, and we can find those remedies ourselves in plants. what about you?
edit: cmon guys it’s not about the traditional vs modern treatment. just wanna know other’s opinion about this…
Conventional medicine, because it actually works and has a basis in reality.
Herbal medicine works and has a basis in reality as well, its not witchcraft, it has been around for thousands of years. There is stuff you cant cure with simple herbs though and modern medicine is more convenient. No need to be so condescending.
The stuff that works in herbal medicine have been studied and improved in modern medicine. The two can’t and shouldn’t be equated. Anyone claiming herbal medicine should be respected and not condemned is a crook and/or idiot. Most proponents are crooks, trying to sell things they know or don’t care if they work.
Things like paracetamol and lithium have a basis in herbal medicine. Paracetamol was improved to stop the horrendous damage the herbal medicine did to your kidneys. Lithium was quantified and controlled to minimise the impact of taking a toxic mental (Lithium was sold as natural healing waters found in springs, it was scientist investigating these waters that identified lithium as an element), newer less toxic medicines are now available for these conditions.
Medicine displaced herbal remedies. The regulation of medicine means the only practionationers of herbal medicines are unregulated crooks.
I dont know what youre thinking of when you are saying ‘herbal medicine’ but it is clearly not the same as me. When I drink camomile tea for an upset stomach, which 100% works, how is that me being an unregulated crook?
The way you phrased your comment made it appear like you’re saying they’re the just as effective in all regards as each other. A medication will provably make a difference via more mechanical biology, whereas a herbal tea will make a difference with the mind. The main difference is the way people feel better. Using a painkiller for a chronic pain is better than drinking a herbal tea, but if you stub your toe both will work. Needing to say herbal tea isn’t witchcraft, has a basis in reality and has been around for thousands of years comes across as defensive. (In this case a more broad defense of alternative medicine.) Putting your comment in a more down to earth way would’ve avoided the, less than favourible, interpretation by commenters. (Mentioning that the plecibo effect is real or actual active ingredients in some herbal teas would also have helped.)
I never said they were equally effective, I simply stated that it is not baseless, replying to an incredibly rude commenter who was extremely confident in their scoentifically wrong statement, thats why I mocked the commenter with the witchcraft part. Also I literally said ‘there is stuff you cant simply cure with herbs’. If anyone thinks I valued the two equally they didnt read past the first 3 words of my comment.
People are so quick to start a witchhunt based on absolutely nothing. This is pretty sad…
some herbal medicine works - it’s the stuff we made into modern medicine after decades of research. There is a distinct difference between “chew on this bark, it contains aspirin” and “don’t vax your kids, just rub these leaves on them”, and nobody’s really condescending to the first type.
The comment I replied to literally said herbal medicine has no base in reality, how is that not condescending?
Also, what does antivaxing have to do with herbal medicine? Theres a lot of unbased prejudice in this thread for people claiming to be on the scientific side…
It is extremely common, if one distrusts “modern medicine”, to use that same logic to distrust vaccines, ya know, a subset of modern medicine. Plenty of anti vax parents out there trying to treat braighleigh’s measles with pine nettles and “essential oils” - y’all are using the same lapse of logic, you’re gonna get lumped together.
Herbal medicine is not modern medicine’s “equal”, it is not condescending to refer to it as inferior. It is unbelievably frustrating to see individuals act as though their limited knowledge of plants and complete lack of knowledge of pharmaceuticals gives them any leg to stand on compared to a qualified medical professional.
But who said anything at all about distrusting modern medicine? The point was that herbal medicine works to a certain degree and that it is not baseless.
I feel like Im being strawmanned really hard and I dont think Ill continue this discussion if the replies refer to things no one ever said or implied.
Ironically, that is witchcraft, in the traditional meaning of the word
just wondering why they’re here, gave my post a reply if doctors in black death plague don’t use herbals
Oh actually those herbals didn’t help! That was during the prime era of the miasma theory of disease and the thought was that the plague spread through bad air (actually spread through bacteria infesting fleas which infested rats and humans, or through direct contact without proper santitzation). So they used strong smelling herbs to attempt to ensure all the air they breathed was good air. It also helped them focus because the buboes stink when they rupture or necrotize. Also fun fact, the plague still exists, it’s just not present in significant amounts in the industrialized world because of antibiotics. This does however mean that we may eventually see the rise of antibiotic resistant plague.
it’s just an example, also i’m not talking about the strong smelling herbals as the treatment (although it’s the most popular one that being told in the history books and/or internet). there was lavender being used for antibacterial treatments though they’re less effective (since the pandemic happened on the medieval age) so no modern meds invented. it’s less effective for us but effective enough for them (the people back then).
It was an apocalyptic pandemic. It was very much not good enough for them back then.
you’re saying this only from your point of view, whether or not something is good is relative. you would say it was good enough than nothing although still less effective than meds nowadays to “cure” the disease if you were alive back then, at least it was the best treatment back then.
so you are likely want a simpler solution, aren’t ya
Is there value in needlessly complicating things? Not that what you’re doing is only adding complexity, it’s also just worse than real medicine, but even if that’s all it achieved - why?
why worse? also, it’s not too complicated for me since “complicated” is relative for people.
People at work do, people traveling do, people with a busy home life do.
Do you know what we call herbal medicine that works? Medicine.
That said if I want low impact results for a low impact illness, think sore throat, I wot go to the GP, I’ll drink hot drinks
Good old Tim Minchin. For the uninitiated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIWj3tI-DXg
Herbal stuff for simple things and symptoms, like a sore throat or headache. Modern medicine for anything I can’t treat on my own.
Lots of things from nature are not going to be good for you simply by being natural. And most medications come from studying the effects of things found in nature on biology.
I’ll use treatments and medications that have studies backing their health impact. Occasionally those may be herbal supplements for better nutrition, but most herbal remedies that we know actually work are just a less effective form of the refined medications and treatments that have been developed. If the medication or conventional treatment is readily available, I would pick that first
And “alternative treatments” are nearly always complete bunk.
What do you call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.
That’s tautological thinking and similar to a no true scotsman, language doesn’t contain facts like that.
You’re misunderstanding the statement. It’s not a statement about language exactly, it’s a statement about what medicine is
Medicine is, among other things, traditional medicine that has been studied and proven to work
It’s a reference to a bit from a comedy show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIWj3tI-DXg
The tautology is part of the bit.
even if it’s just a little headache?
Well I just suffer through it if it’s just a little headache. I’d rather not use any medication unless it’s actually hindering my ability to be productive.
The majority of the time, a headache like that is caused by not drinking enough water in the first place, and that’s always a better place to start
Whats the downside of drinking some ginger tea instead of ‘suffering through it’ though? I think what OP was asking is if you would always prefer Paracetamol or similar readily available medicine.
A mild headache is not even an inconvenience in my experience, so “suffer through it” is hyperbolic. As I said, they are most often caused by not drinking enough water, and drinking more water will usually resolve it anyway. If you want to drink tea instead of water, it’s basically the same results, but it’s the hydration that makes the difference.
If it is more than a mild headache and actually bothering me, then I’ll go for a proper pain relief medication. I keep that on hand for that reason.
Not all headaches are caused by dehydration, not even close.
lol that’s okay, all opinions are welcome, life is not binary. but honestly, i’d also questioning this
i believe that all the ingredients in pharmaceutical medicines ultimately come from nature, and we can find those remedies ourselves in plants
Even if that were correct, are you choosing the plants that have those same chemicals when you choose a remedy? If you are, why not use the normal medicine?
To be clear, yes some plants do have legitimate medicinal uses, but I really think you shouldn’t be handwaving health decisions like this.
Also good luck with dosing. Many medecines loses the benefits if you take too much, like asthma medecine for example. It’s like a bell curve. Others are outright dangerous if overdosed and so on. Stay safe out there!
are you choosing the plants that have those same chemicals when you choose a remedy?
yes, i’d research what my doctor told me to take and find the alternative. like example: if they told me to take paracetamol because a headache, i’d choose ginger instead and go to sleep after. as far as i know, paracetamol has side effects to make us sleepy and makes us wanna take a nap, which is the natural way to treat a headache. ginger also has this effect. i won’t take any medicine they gave me unless it’s a serious issue that can take my life like cancer or diabetes. my mom has diabetes, she was using medicine they gave her, not going any better. then she stopped, she changed her remedies to a herbal alternative. she started to drink clitoria or we call it “telang” in my country every single morning. went to check her health and went much much better. idk why tbh. not my personal experience but that’s what i’ve seen from my closest one.
If you are, why not use the normal medicine?
well, because i can make it on my own, why not?
I’m glad you’re putting some thought into the remedies, at least.
I could tell you that regardless of your personal experience with your mom, statistically blah blah blah, normal medicine works the best. And it would be true, but I’m not going to bother you with it today. There are a million reasons why your mom’s situation could have worked out the way that it did, and I don’t know enough to speculate why it worked that way.
well, because i can make it on my own, why not?
I mean, don’t you think it’s a little egotistical to think that your solution would be as effective as the one that’s based on the same principles but has been refined by at least dozens of trained professionals? You’re only doing this with stuff where effectiveness doesn’t matter too much, so maybe the mental benefits of making your own herbal remedies outweighs any physical downsides to doing so in your case, but the effectiveness gap would be a compelling reason why not to do it yourself. But like I said, if you’re aware that herbal solutions are less potent, you don’t actually need that potency, and you enjoy making the herbal stuff, there’s no harm in using it for common ailments.
tbousands of chemists over multi decades
Yup. Even the most crazy experimental treatments have gone through dozens. Common medicines are one of the most studied substances on the planet.
time effectiveness doesn’t matter for me, but if you’re talking about the effectiveness about the meds especially for little issues, for me, it’s the same. i just don’t like something instant, i do enjoy the process of everything that i do though. just asking for opinion here, all opinions are welcome 👌
i just don’t like something instant, i do enjoy the process of everything that i do though
Exactly; the process itself feels good. I hope you continue to enjoy it.
just asking for opinion here, all opinions are welcome
By declaring all opinions on a factual topic equally valid, you’re giving the same weight to reality as you do to misinformation. I do not welcome misinformation. This may seem close-minded, but having an open mind doesn’t mean accepting everything as equally true.
By declaring all opinions on a factual topic equally valid
i’m not saying all opinions are valid, i’m a truth seeker myself i don’t want misinformation or spreading it. but people can say what they think, it’s just us who decides is that info is true or not. that’s why i call it as “opinion” not “argument”
Do you have extensive experience in chemistry? With a full chemlab in your basement so you can properly test your extracts?
extensive, no. but for basic knowledge about the prescription my doctor gave me, yes.
As long as it works for you, it’s your decision. I would caution you if you take that thinking into serious illness though. Our ancestors weren’t able to fight back cancers or serious infections, we have some serious survival bias there. When it comes to serious illness the only way we’ve been able to extend our lifespan and fight back serious illness is because of modern medicine.
Go too far down that path and you end up like Steve jobs who was convinced juice would cure his cancer
The difference between a herbal remedies and a regular medicine is that the regular stuff the manufacturer has to first show that it actually works at all and then figure out what the side effects are.
If I have any serious issue I’d not trust anything that is not FDA/EMA/etc approved for my condition.
I’m in the UK where we’ve got the NHS and cheap medicine, so that might be why I’m hard on the “just give me the medicine” side of things.
I can’t think of any situation when I’d pick an alternative herbal medicine over the medical solution from a chemist if I actually had a problem I wanted to resolve.
True can confirm. It appears like a cultural barrier to me when I read about Americans trusting a tiktoker for their medications that (a month later) turns out to have no FDA verification and no overseas certification either. Its literally only the person making it knows what’s in it situation.
Herbal medicines are fine for minor things, but I wouldn’t use that for serious issues. Dosage is a big part of a medicine’s effectiveness, and a lot of the time, natural products have compounds that are too low in concentration to be reasonably effective. You’d need to extract and purify the compound, and at that point you’re right back to conventional medicine.
And that’s assuming that the herbs do contain the compound that you’re looking for, because unfortunately, people lie on the internet and I generally would not trust what random internet people say about what’s in herbal medicines
yes, i think my question should be more specific. i’m agreeing on this. i do my own research about switching to alternative from conventional medicine. mostly, i’d go to a doctor if i’m not feeling well (it’s free in my country if we just wanna check up) and i will ask about my diagnosis, if it’s not a serious issue then i’d look for the alternative remedies.
Your not doing your own research. Your likley not capable of doing such research. Your doctor also isn’t doing their own research. Your doctor does take the knowledge and guidance from those that do research after they’ve done it and it’s be reviewed and validated by national healthcare standards agency.
Much like documentaries much of the available information online that’s accessible and engaging is just entertainment wrapped packaged like your learning something. Especially when your sources lead you to think herbal medicine is a better alternative.
yes pardon my english, those words are likely close to what i would say in my mother language.
Your words were fine for most situations. Research to a layperson generally means you go and read up on a thing from authoritative sources. Research to a pharmaceutical scientist means you convince/pay a bunch of people to take pills that you or your colleagues have made, note how those people are affected, and possibly adjust your recipe.
Similar to the word “theory”. To a layperson, it generally means an educated guess at why a thing is the way it is, but untested. To a scientist, an educated guess doesnt become a theory until it’s been tested over and over and over, making sure the results did not deviate from what was expected to happen.
If I have a cold I opt for chicken soup and orange juice. Not because I think it will make me healthy, but because it will make me feel good.
I don’t get regular medicine, not because I’m averse to taking it, but because I don’t have insurance and can’t afford regular medicine.
I grew up with a doctor that believed in alternative medicine and a mom afraid of using medicine except when absolutely necessary. I was also perpetually dealing with colds and headaches. Now I take cold medicine when a cold starts and a painkiller to sleep well during the cold and they last about a quarter if the time.
You know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.
Prefer nothing but if I do need something I always go for conventional. If it’s bad enough that I need medicine I want something that actually works.
Depends on the issue. For relatively minor burns I have an Aloe Vera plant, for example. I’m not against pharmaceuticals, or doctors, but for most of my life doctors have been prohibitively expensive or simply not available depending on where I was working at that moment so you learn how to treat most things yourself using whats handy. Giving yourself stitches fucking hurts worse than the original injury by the by.
I have a good paying job now with good insurance and there are multiple medical facilities nearby, but the old habits remain.
what do you use that aloe vera for?
I’m not against pharmaceuticals, or doctors, but for most of my life doctors have been prohibitively expensive
can relate to this lol
I have a good paying job now with good insurance
good for you!
what do you use that aloe vera for?
Same as you would use store bought aloe vera gel. When applied to the skin, assuming you are not allergic, it can sooth minor burns and scrapes. As a last resort you can also use it as a laxative by ingesting it. Seriously, don’t eat it, it caused me to vomit as well as loosening my bowels the one time I did that. Normal store bought laxatives are far more “pleasant” to take.
I only use herbal medicine if I know that what I have is not serious, it’s something that would go away on itself, and I just want to relieve the symptoms.
examples
Symptom Herb Why I probably got this way Upset stomach peppermint greasy food Intestinal cramps star anise, turmeric either beans or peanuts Migraine ginger biological clock went nuts again Hangover yerba mate see that half-empty bottle of vodka? Common cold ginger, lemon leaves, honey Every single spring I get a cold. I do it because I prefer milder approaches for mild issues, but the efficacy of this sort of herbal med is fairly limited.
Isn’t that just basic knowledge of your own body? Like if I eat beans I’ll have a gaseous stool etc.
I mean don’t we all drink some tea when the throat is sore? Avoid coffee if we have stomach problems and so on?
I sure do take medication when I’m sick, but I also try to alleviate the suffering with ordinary things (“natural” if you want), like chocolate when I have the flu because it’s depressing or rice when I have a diarrhea.
I feel OP are fishing for something else though like “modern medicine bad/big pharma bad” or am I wrong here?
Isn’t that just basic knowledge of your own body? Like if I eat beans I’ll have a gaseous stool etc.
It is. And even chimps do it to a certain degree.
I feel OP are fishing for something else though like “modern medicine bad/big pharma bad”
no, not really tbh. i also take their meds when it gets to serious issues.
i also got a list like this in my notebook!
Meanwhile, do people believe in empirical evidence or superstition?
