And apparently, also when you think that ‘They’ is a perfectly serviceable gender-neutral singular pronoun, but are willing to use other pronouns if asked to.
EDIT: Other removable offenses on Blahaj now include questioning mod/admin decisions and quoting the modlog as a reason why you’re leaving.
I mean, if I were somebody who wanted to make the resistance against the nazis weak, this is exactly the kind of bullshit I might think to do. I’m not saying that’s why this is going on. Just that there’s no reason to rule it out.
I think it’s also pretty relevant that dragonfucker has multiple times said that if you’re feeling suicidal, then you should instead get a gun and start shooting Trump supporters.
If you’re planning on killing yourself, go buy a gun and take a red hat with you. Drag is serious. Get out if you can. Move to another country. But if you’re actually hopeless, and there’s nothing anyone can say to dissuade you… Then make it count.
https://lemmy.nz/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=12587481
I think modlog could be that unique fediverse content genre.
So much potential!
I think that account is a social experiment designed to see how fucking bizarre of a line of bullshit can they force down other people’s throats
Yup. I’d bet money on it.
Anon is at it again?
That dude is laughing his ass off at all the drama he’s caused.
Who, OP?
Dragon is a purity test troll:
By using absurd conversational standards backed by the reasoning of “nontraditional identification / self”, they troll both you, and mods into playing the purity “jump how high” game. If the mods flinch, and tell them to tone it down, the community will eat them alive. If they call you out, the mod has to pull the trigger.
I’m not saying the mods are free from blame, but they are so high on their own supply that banning you is the only option.
Non binary folks deserve respect. Non traditional pronouns are worth respect. The way dragon uses them is a problem because they are inconsistent with any logic… They use them semantically wrong
semantically wrong
This, TBH. It’s just speaking in third person. You’d think if it’s not trolling, at least you’d know what a pronoun is, from a grammatical standpoint.
I don’t think “nontraditional” quite covers it. He, she, they is enough to cover the whole spectrum and anything beyond that is a blatant call for attention that should be discouraged at this point.
People who want to have a discussion about neopronouns are absolutely welcome to, and while I find them aesthetically displeasing and unneeded, it’s no more inherently invalid than any other development of language.
I think the only neo pronoun I know is xe/xir, even then I don’t know why you would use it above they/them
There are a few others. Many are somewhat historical from before the singular they was agreed as default
Some people don’t care for ‘they/them’ as singular neutral because they’re used to it as plural.
Some people want a pronoun(s) specifically for NB identities, rather than a purely neutral pronoun.
These are both valid, if contentious, points.
Yeah, they’ve kinda lost the point.
Don’t know that it’s power tripping because it’s a matter of whether or not you believe that neopronouns are or are not part of trans rights and trans issues. If you do, then they’re maintaining their space as a place for trans and trans adjacent folks to not have to deal with the bullshit of constantly defending and fighting for every single thing.
So I get it. Once you believe that, and you’re maintaining a space for trans people, you absolutely have to draw that line.
I don’t agree with it, but that’s not the point. It doesn’t matter if I agree or not. It only matters that blahaj is a trans space first and above anything else, and they do buy into neopronouns.
They’ve also bought into protecting a couple of trolls because of that, but that’s the down side.
But, yeah, it’s a fucking mess when you can’t even use a broadly accepted neutral term as the default until you have a specific one. Which, being real, keeping track of random online user names and their choice of pronouns just isn’t worth it. Why the fuck should anyone bother?
Irl? Absolutely. You’ve got faces to connect things to. But online, with people that are essentially acquaintances at best, how the fuck are you going to remember that doggyboy19 is the one that uses xexu, but puppyboy18 uses xenu? My dyslexic ass already has enough trouble keeping track of the user names that don’t have partterns that match established words. Neopronouns amount to a random string of lines and circles to me, there’s no fucking pattern to memorize at all, there’s nothing I can use to keep track of them.
Which is going off the topic of your post here, but it’s one of the reasons “they” is a shit ton better. You don’t have dyslexics, people with English as a second or third language trying to have a nice conversation and being treated like an asshole because they can’t follow the randomly chosen garbles used by some of the more absurd neopronoun folks.
Yeah, I got, I’m guessing perma banned by Ada(?), from there, because I asked to many questions (just one post) about a statement that made no fucking sense to me, on someones post.
Oh! And aggressive disgusting responses back to my questions were way more hateful and vile than anything I’ve ever posted anywhere, especially directly to another person. Misgendered me, verbal attacks, etc. Went to report that shit, couldn’t because of ban. Didn’t see those folks banned or their comments removed though. Guess hate speech and violence is ok to them, if your not trans enough for their elite dragon-fucking club.
I’m on the spectrum. I get upset when I can’t make sense of shit and DO indeed ask a lot of questions that seem dumb or rude to others. My brain is trying to figure out the rules and meanings of this new idea… get a grasp of the boundaries.
Thought Blahaj would be a safe place to hang around for an oddball like me, all the inclusitivity talk n shit. Big mistake! Honestly thought about leaving lemmy, think I had more response to that than anything else I’ve said on here, and it was truly awful to read. Made me question myself and feel really really shitty for not understanding then getting attacked because my questions are to snarky(?), the reason I usually escape TOO here, and rarely respond or post even then. Then my adult brain kicked in and I realize they are a bunch of idiots who think a dragon is real and providing sage advice, and I’ll just block that shit. Miss some of those memes though.
For additional context, the removed comment by [email protected] that was removed by Ada was:
Oh, wow, so many questions! Is that the new tactic? Tell folks they can’t be free to identify how they feel now? Gee, I don’t see that going well for acceptance becoming common place but, whatta I know? Seems kinda on par with having been told, “… you don’t get to choose your gender, god does…” How do we get or give these official “ally” titles to pass out? Do they need to be notarized or is there another way to make sure they are genuine? Is there a checklist or website available to ensure worthiness before certifying an ally? Is there a membership cost? Are all lgbtq+ folks allowed to certify, or only particular groups? I have sooo many more but those seem important to start and avoid any penalties. …Oh shit, are there penalty fines??
Yep! That was it! Responding to something about having to “earn being an ally” … I still am not sure wtf they mean, I have to commit deeds before I am friend instead of foe? If I’m an egg, or in the closet, I have to out myself before I can have or be supportive? I’m still am not sure. Chalking it up to I’m too old and they’re to cliq-ey, or, they are just a bunch of assholes. Leaning latter now that I see that those who ask just one question get banned too.
I know through text it’s easy to come off sounding angrier or meaner than intended but I don’t see anything perma ban worthy in my response. Wanting to block me for that, sure… temp ban to cool off, of course. I could absolutely be dick not worth engaging with. Peruse my short history… see that even if I am, I am not going around trolling people or being abusive. I’m just confused idiot with a sailor’s mouth.
I can see why Ada removed it, but a permaban doesn’t seem necessary in my opinion. I’ve changed it to a tempban you should be able to comment again next year (3 days from now).
Thanks for looking into it! That seems like an acceptable limit. Still not sure if I will engage over there anymore after that. It seems quite chaotic and rather unnaccepting of any discussion of ideas. I will at least be able to give an upvote to meme posters who are funny and hope to encourage them to keep it up!
I can’t. Seems like a dumbass thing to ban someone for.
yeah those all seem like really good faith questions
/s in case it isn’t fucking obvious
Some of the most performatively inclusive communities are the most hateful in substance. It’s like US Christians. Because they have a badge of good-person-ness, it’s perfectly okay for them to do whatever to you.
Just going to drop this here, it seems relevant.
The effect created by such Internet trolls is not very big, but they manage to make certain forums meaningless because people stop commenting on the articles when these trolls sit there and constantly create an aggressive, hostile atmosphere toward those whom they don’t like. The trolls react to certain news with torrents of mud and abuse. This makes it meaningless for a reasonable person to comment on anything there.
I think there are some people here who have become kung fu masters at the art of straddling the line of acceptable behavior, so that they can remain on the network making everyone’s life unpleasant and bringing nothing of value, while still having a passably plausible claim that they “have a right to be here.” It carries the added bonus of creating division between different factions because some people stick up for them. They’ve often figured out that agglomerating onto tribal hot-buttons like veganism or trans rights is a great way to get knee-jerk support from other members, or at least hesitation to be too quick to ban them, so they can continue to overstay their welcome.
The issue is just how “free” speech should be, also sometimes referred to as the Nazi bar effect. By allowing all types of “freedom”, others feel not free anymore to speak up, for fear of what will ensue.
Edit: and I thought it was obvious but to make extra clear, it’s also called the paradox of intolerance - somehow allowing people unlimited freedom to speak results in less people being willing to do so.
Dragonfucker is definitely a troll that walks the line. He should not be handled with kids gloves, he knows exactly what he’s doing.
I’ve said before that dragonfucker is likely an alt of DroneRights just trying a slightly different tactic, I stand by this assessment due to the extensive behavior patterns exhibited by this individual. Including the fact that after I responded to their post on pawb.social accusing me of abuse since I banned their account preemptively, the community [email protected] was created and started posting evil and disgusting things about me while pinging me on every fediverse account I had, as well as outing and harassing anyone who dared report the community. I was also greeted with many disgusting DMs featuring porn. I was also sent death threats.
Horrible messages and mentions by drag's harassment alt
Context: Original post was asking admins to give out my IP address so drag could hunt me down and kill me.
Let us be clear, the reason people say Dragonfucker is a troll is not because of the pronoun thing, that’s a not issue and it detracts from the real issue which is the sealioning and abusive behavior they exhibit.
Oh and I’m almost certain this is the same person as dragonfucker because it happened right after the original post, and this account made some fatal slip-ups. No one actually thinks this wasn’t dragonfucker, I’d be willing to bet money that it was. I can’t think of anyone else who would have a motive to do that to me in that moment.
War of the Dragons right here.
Drag is banned on 196
I saw this thread very early, didn’t comment though.
Fact is, language doesn’t work by fiat. We already have a genderless pronoun, and it’s the singular they. This has been used at least as far back as Shakespeare.
Thats what they want you to believe! every last one of them!
Dragonfucker strikes again. The number of posts I’ve seen by him or about him in here is… something
Yeah, they’re loving this shit. Surgical precision-level trolling. Dude should be perma-banned from the instance, and instead, is being coddled and protected.
I enjoy a good troll. When the entire account is just trolling and I’m fed up with it, I can just block it.
I also do a little troll here and there for teh lulz and I’d hate to get banned for some weird humor like calling the “South China Sea” the “West Philippine Sea”.
Protected and managed to set a precedent to protect anyone who wants to follow their mockery.
Christ. It’s like that person who was ‘droneself’ and insisted on that early during the Reddit-Lemmy exodus.
I also think dronerights (dronegender/swarmgender), grail (goddessgender), and drag (dragonrider /dragonfucker) are the same person. Hexbear has been calling this out for a while now, it’s how I even know about these users. There’s other users they also think are alts like mindtraveler and pm me fat enbies. Blajah bends over backwards to protect them until they do something so offensive for so long that they are banned and the bit continues in another account. Some of the accounts claim to suffer from NPD. I don’t know what to make of it other than I try to ignore them.
Honestly, I don’t even find the poster themselves that annoying. As many noted, you can just block them, and I rarely see drag in my circles anyway. It’s the reaction from the admins, and some of the users, that turned me away. What a shitshow.
This makes a bunch of sense. I wonder if there’s a way to stick post timestamps into a spreadsheet and compare those accounts.
Yep. I saw mentioned in the deleted comments that what he is doing is basically the same thing as the conservative-favorite “attack helicopter” bit and I totally agree. I don’t see how it’s any different. And now this clown has moderators changing rules to suit them whereas they should be kicking rocks.
If anyone takes lemmy seriously at all, they’d abandon that instance in a fucking second.
Look through the modlogs. Some mods believe the account is an alt of the same troll. If true, we’ve learned nothing and have failed to secure Lemmy from the same basic threat.
Yes! This person is a outsized distraction
It be super useful having a shared block list like AdBlockers across all social media. Certainly make things a lot more pleasant.
Yeah, if we could also convince Track_Shovel to stop posting to 196, that would be great.
They sound familiar. What’s their deal?
Nothing special, just that they are the primary poster on 196 and the reason it shows up on All.
Doesn’t bother me. If it did, I’d block them. I actually found the whole thing a rather entertaining spectacle of flavor. I’m a middle age cis white guy. If you want to be called tuba, or tata, or whatever, I don’t care. If you use a foreign language like Chinese or Arabic I dislike my own ignorance and inability to understand, but I still respect the person’s decision.
Ultimately language rules are only a loose correlation based on use and culture. Rules and norms do not create language or cultures, people do. I only see people resisting the patently unfamiliar. “Dragonfucker” or any other pronoun is no different to me than a nickname. If something so simple is able to make just one person feel a little better about their life for a few moments, I’m happy to oblige. The Hippocratic aphorism “first do no harm” does not appear violated in my opinion. If annoyed, block them.
Yeah I will use preferred pronouns for people and users I respect when referring to them. It, xim, drag, doesn’t matter.
My contentious take is that using “they/them” in place of the preferred pronoun is not misgendering. I will use it to refer to people identifying as women, men, non-binary, or anything else, it should be neutral. I try to be inclusive as a best effort, and for all intents and purposes treat them as my equal. However, I’m not on a “nickname” basis with everyone and will just block if their asks become not worth my time.
I’ll disagree on that, but it’s complicated. I’m a trans woman that’s semi passing. When I’m dressed even remotely androgynous or if I haven’t told a person irl that my pronouns are she/her, or even if I think they may have forgotten then I don’t consider it misgendering. But sometimes people are clearly refusing to address me with feminine pronouns, despite me having told them several times, presenting myself femininely, and them correctly gendering the cis and cis passing women near me.
I think essentially, we call people what they want to be called out of respect. Even if it seems ridiculous.
Also “drag” as a pronoun confuses me I just think of drag shows. Ironic?
Let’s not go to blahaj, tis a silly place.
Camelot is looking better every minute compared to them.
I kinda get it, though. It’s not easy to draw a line and say this is valid and that is not because you dislike the person or the person is a troll or whatnot, and I’m not specifically talking about drag. Like it doesn’t make it ok to call people racial epithets if they’re a criminal. So how do you tell which pronouns are valid and which aren’t? The conclusion over there is you don’t. And I would be really uncomfortable going into a minority space and telling people they’re being gay in the wrong way or telling somebody they’re reacting to racism in the wrong way or they’re not passing or bisexuals aren’t valid or whatever else. I get that it may feel heavy handed, but this is the kind of discussion that happens over and over in bad faith. So how do you tell who’s having a conversation in good faith or bad faith? Once again, the conclusion seems to be one doesn’t and to err on the side of safety for the users of that instance. Bad money drives out good and that’s not necessarily your fault, but the coin is worth less regardless of if it’s shaved or not.
It’s not easy to draw a line and say this is valid and that is not because you dislike the person or the person is a troll or whatnot, and I’m not specifically talking about drag.
It’s impossible. That’s part of the issue. Whatever boundary you want to draw, there are going to be difficult areas at the borderline or in the extreme cases.
For me, it’s transparently obvious that the dragon person is either taking the piss or suffering from mental illness. Someone else might look at the same situation and say that I’m being ignorant and hateful if I think that. Sure, they can think that.
The thing that makes it hard is that we have to be able to talk about it. Both of those opinions. If I ban the person who thinks I am wrong, they can’t stick up for drag. Bad stuff. If they ban me for saying my feelings on it, saying that they have a right to determine that those feelings are not acceptable to be spoken, then to me, that makes the whole operation and network into a stupid and pointless endeavor.
Part of the whole point of tolerance and open society is that you learn to rock and roll with the people you don’t agree with. I don’t think there’s anybody who will survive for long on the main instances who will be openly racist, transphobic, or anything like that. If you start looking for the most minor of transgressions or differences of opinion, and then shutting out that person because now they’re “bad” and can’t even be spoken to, I think you’re actually interfering quite a lot with your own acceptance in the wider society.
Not everyone is going to think like you. It’s okay. Back in college, I knew some communists who were widely accepted, even by conservatives and “normie” society, because they were firmly in the mode of “this is my stuff, and I’ll tell you about it, but I have 0 expectation that it needs to be your stuff, too.” The ones who had major issues were the ones who had elaborate restrictions on how people needed to see things, how they were allowed to be spoken to, things like that. They wound up isolated into their own pretty small social circle. They didn’t wind up building the wider enlightenment in society that I am guessing they were wanting to do by making the restrictions.
I can see special situations where you really just want your own space safe from people coming in and laughing at you or whatever. I get that. But most of the time, I think setting this super-restrictive model of how everyone needs to talk to you and how they need to look at things in order not to be “bad,” does more harm than good and builds a lot more insincere “acceptance,” than it does genuine understanding about what’s going on with you and your people.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I get what you’re saying. I just lean more towards that the space doesn’t have to be for fostering acceptance or understanding by outsiders, regardless of outcome. The best example my morning brain can come up with is: swingers generally don’t get together with the purpose of interacting with the non-swinger public (unless they’re exhibitionists with a poor grasp of consent) or improving their image; they get together to fuck. The metaphor breaks down in that lemmy is a bit more public, but one can still get kicked out of Hedo for not following the rules even if it’s upsetting or gives you a bad experience with the scene. It would be a pretty awful place for swingers if nobody enforced rules that made it a safe place to be naked etc. even for “ugly” people, even if that becomes the image generally. Ok, this metaphor is getting worse and worse, but hopefully it’s good enough to get us to shore.
So how do you tell who’s having a conversation in good faith or bad faith? Once again, the conclusion seems to be one doesn’t and to err on the side of safety for the users of that instance.
There is such a thing as toxic positivity - when being permissible itself creates an environment for bad faith actors to dominate discussion. I am generally more hesitant to tell someone their experience of racism is wrong, but at the same time, that doesn’t mean that getting a sunburn because they have pale skin is racism. All discussions require boundaries, even if just implicit ones; discussions without boundaries descend into incoherence. It’s been declared here that questioning the boundaries of this discussion at all is no longer welcome in Blahaj. And that’s… very unfortunate.
When it was just “We’re going to be enforcing the standard rules on pronouns and gender on dragonfucker as a gender”, it was like “Okay, fine, I’m sad, I’m going to sadpost and leave, but this is well within their rights and I understand what they’re trying to do.” Removing comments for any questioning of the decision? Bit more irritating.
Bad money drives out good and that’s not necessarily your fault, but the coin is worth less regardless of if it’s shaved or not.
btw, meant to mention this originally, but I adore your use of economic metaphor
