I have been spending the holidays with my fiance’s family. All of them are die hard trump supporters. This town they live in, are all die hard trump supporters.
We went out to a restaurant with my fiance’s parents and their friends. When it came time to pay their friends whipped out their cards and showed the table. Each card had a sticker delicately placed, the content of the stickers were of donald trump in many different contexts. Djt as a dollar bill, djt wearing a fake mustache at his mugshot, djt assasination attempt, etc. I was absolutely appalled. Then the waiter came over and I was expecting to see him perturbed as well. Nope. He wanted one and asked if they had anymore. They then gave him one and helped him put it on. In the middle of his shift.
Obviously trump is fucking disgusting in more ways than one. What baffles me is how you can flagrantly carry around a proven rapist in your wallet when you are a woman, not just a woman but a woman of color. Which the friend waving this dipshit around and making the stickers is.
I mean this man has literally talked about immigrants “poisoning the blood of this nation”. These are actual fucking people he talks about and demonizes. People with families, lives, and friends. All that care just gets thrown out the window with these people.
I hate living in trump country, because I feel like I am losing my mind when everyone around me is flaunting him like their own son who graduated as validictorian. As if these people are part of his club. When he is one of the most disgusting individuals I have had the displeasure of hearing about for over 8 years going on 12 now. How can you be so ignorant? Every passing day in this state I understand more and more how Hitler gripped the minds of the masses and came into power so easily. People are so fucking stupid.
Please for my sanity, I need to talk to people who know this monster for who he truly is. How do you cope being in a similar situation? How do you speak up?
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I’m going to post a great answer to this that agent_nycto shared on another thread:
I don’t think you should be quiet, it makes them feel like everyone is agreeing with them and makes everyone miserable. Time to introduce you to my favorite game to play with conservatives, Politics Judo!
So you hear them rant about a thing. Some dumbass talking point. Let’s use gun control. It’s pretty easy to know in advance what the talking points are since they never shut up and parrot the same problem and solution over and over. “Shouldn’t take guns, it’s a mental problem not a gun problem”.
Things are basically boiled down to a problem and a solution. A lot of people try to convince people that the problem isn’t what people think it is, and that’s hard to do. Even if they are just misinformed, it feels like trying to dismiss their fears.
So what you do is you agree with the problem, then use lefty talking points as the solution.
“Oh yeah, gun violence is pretty bad! And I love the Constitution, we shouldn’t mess with that!” (Use small words and also throw in some patriotism, makes them feel like you’re on their side. You want to sound like a right wing media con artist) “so instead of taking guns away, we should instead start having more, free, mental health care in this country. Since it’s a mental health problem and these people are crazy, that is the solution that makes the most sense!” (Don’t try to get them to agree to your solution, just state it as the obvious one)
It becomes weaponized cognitive dissonance. Their brains fry because you said the things you should to agree with them, flagged yourself as an ally, but then said the thing they were told is the bad and shouldn’t want.
If they try to argue with your solution, rinse and repeat to a different talking point. “Oh yeah it might cost more, and we shouldn’t have to pay more for it, so we should get the rich people who are screwing average hard working Americans over by not paying taxes to do that. We should shut down tax loopholes and increase funding to the IRS so they can go after them instead of the little guy”
Always sound like you’re agreeing with them, but giving solutions that they disagree with that seem to be off topic but are related.
I’ve done exactly this, it works. You can see the partial stun on their face while they try to work it out.
Guy came over to get a thing off FB Marketplace, right after 01/06.
Him starting to get annoyed: “Hey. I saw what you posted on Neighborhood.com about January 6th. My brother’s a cop.”
“And those fuckers killed one cop, beat dozens of others and two suicided directly after! Fuck sakes, they were beating a cop with an American flag!” Fuck is wrong with these people! Why aren’t cops shitting all over Trump!"
You could see the cognitive dissonance on his face, see him forming new thoughts. Pretty cool! And we parted very amicably.
On the taxes thing, I hit a (former) conservative friend with that when he was bitching about the IRS dunning him 2-years after filing.
“Well, yeah. The GOP has been slashing IRS funding for 2 decades. What do you expect? And why aren’t these politicians going after the private firm you paid to screw up your taxes! Rebulicans should drop the hammer on fuckers like that instead of us working-class people getting fucked!”
We can do this all day.
“Fuckin’ A I’m tired of illegals! Why the hell are the Republicans letting the employers slide on this shit! There would be no illegal immigration if they couldn’t get jobs! Fuck me, I expect it from the Democrats, where’s our guys?!”
This but with the slightly more moderate neoliberal pseudo-friend adjacent I have at university
It’s important for them to see you as in-group. If they see you an an outsider they won’t really listen to anything you say. That’s something that afflicts all of us.
“Oh yeah, gun violence is pretty bad! And I love the Constitution, we shouldn’t mess with that!” (Use small words and also throw in some patriotism, makes them feel like you’re on their side. You want to sound like a right wing media con artist) “so instead of taking guns away, we should instead start having more, free, mental health care in this country. Since it’s a mental health problem and these people are crazy, that is the solution that makes the most sense!” (Don’t try to get them to agree to your solution, just state it as the obvious one)
I unironically agree with this. We should fix underlying causes of violence–issues like systemic racism and misogyny, poverty, etc.–rather than focusing on the tools used for violence.
As do I. Plenty of countries have high gun ownership, but only we have such a plague of violence to go along with it. It obviously isn’t the guns—or not just the guns.
The devil of it is, we and conservatives often agree with the general scope of isssues and often our solutions are palatable to them… but since they’ve been taught that everything we do is anathema, they will automatically hate our ideas even if they agree with them. Obamacare is an excellent example of this.
The HCA has been a deeply imperfect attempt to solve a serious problem. Given the popularity of Brian Thompson’s not-timely-enough demise across party lines, it’s clear that people are not satisfied with it. Yes, it’s better than what we had. But we’ve been fighting for 15 years to fix problems with the HCA, and IMO it’s time to admit that the real issue is healthcare being treated as a way to make money.
True, but my point was more about how if you called it ‘Obamacare’ they hated it, but if you called the exact same thing the ‘affordable care act’ they liked it.
Good coping strategy - although it won’t change anything it might make a person feel better.
You might not change the system this way, but if we all change a few people around us it makes a difference eventually.
Fucking brilliant, this.
Every passing day in this state I understand more and more how Hitler gripped the minds of the masses and came into power so easily. People are so fucking stupid.
Many tried to figure that out about the Nazis, and it became obvious why
10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and the remaining 80 percent can be moved in either direction - Susan Sontag
You’re up against the 90% . its not that they are stupid they are literally unable to care beyond the small circle of their family/friends that are like them.
It’s disappointing that you are probably right… I just wish we could get through to them.
It sounds like you’re marrying into a family that you heavily despise, but that is the narrow opinion of a random internet stranger.
I empathize with your situation, but I would strongly recommend against seeking random advice from internet strangers, even if there appear to be no other alternatives. Random advice is often worse than no advice; Coincidentally, that is the path many took to become MAGA - do not make their same mistake.
Nah my fiance is just like me when it comes to politics, situations like these, etc. She is The perfect partner. She is also navigate this situation with her parents because she loves them but hates their beliefs.
I appreciate your advice, I will be dilligent in this comment section. I think for the most part I am just looking for conversation with people who actually try and critically think. Due to being surrounded by people who seem to just shut off their brain. I feel like I am losing my sanity.
Thank you for your comment kind stranger.
You don’t have to spend time with them. Your fiancé can go visit his shit family if he wants, but you have no obligation to ever share your time and space on them. I certainly wouldn’t.
Maybe reconsider the whole fiancè part too
Correct, horse_battery_staple.
Damn it, I wanted to make that joke ;)
Mwahaha, too slow!
Basically it makes no sense to try to teach trigonometry to a toddler sitting in mud. Just think happy thoughts and GTFO as soon as your social obligation is fulfilled. Also these people might or might not individually be rape apologists - not sure why that’s the focus of the headline - but most MAGAs simply don’t believe he raped anybody.
Trust me we are tryting to get out asap. It’s hard with our situation currently.
At the end of the day is it still not rape apology? Just because you think it didn’t happen doesn’t mean it didn’t actually happen. They may not individually think they are rape apologists but they still are.
It’s the same with abortion, they don’t all individually think it’s trying to control women, but it absolutely is.
I mean I guess at the end of the day it doesn’t matter what is true because maga just decides what they want to be true or false. So even if you call them what they are it bounces off of them. It’s endless goalpost moving.
sigh
No, to be an apologist for something you have to believe it happened. You know, people can still be wrong and horrible even if they aren’t guilty of 100.0000% of everything you would like to accuse them of. Conceding one little point doesn’t mean you’re calling them the good guys, it just means your being realistic.
People who continue to remain ignorant and not look up the facts of the case, yet continue to flagrantly say “it didn’t happen” are rape apologists. If you continue to support a person who has been convicted of rape, yet you stay ignorant to the details while still claiming “it didn’t happen”. You are a rape apologist. First and foremost the victim and their condition should be first to come to mind. Not the plausible innocence of the rapeist no matter how close you were to them ir how ‘great’ they are. What this is doing is invalidating the trauma of the victim. You can still be ignorant and a rape apologist. Most if not all of my maga interactions have been this way. (Anecdotal I know)
At the end of the day yes their are many things that make maga evil and Abhorrent. The quick outright dismissal of this case from them is one of the many. I’m not trying to throw titles I think are illegitimate.
Do I think all of maga believes it didn’t happen? No. That would be ludicrous. A large portion probably have no idea who E Jean Caroll is. Do I think the majority of maga if presented with the case and asked if they believed it happened would say ‘no’? Yes.
That is exactly how his base has been primed to react.
I don’t think all of MAGA believes it didn’t happen either. All I’m saying, which nobody seems to want to hear, is that people aren’t memes, they’re individuals. Many MAGA people genuinely believe all the accusations against Trump and all his criminal convictions are just crooked manipulations by the “Biden crime family” etc. I don’t know why it’s so hard to accept that being right doesn’t require being 100% right about every single fucking point. Being anti-Trump is right enough without insisting that every single MAGA person is a “rape apologist”. It’s just not realistic, and not necessary. There’s far more ignorance in the world than evil.
- but most MAGAs simply don’t believe he raped anybody.
And if he did, they probably deserved it. And if they didn’t then it’s still ok because he’s a Christian. And at least he’s not a Democrat. Because after all, this was something he did, Demoncrats are actively abducting children.
There is no reasoning for these idiots. Politics is tribalism 100%. You pick a side and back your guy 100% or you lose.
If we want them to vote differently we have to find a different approach.
I’m sure some of them think, “And if he did they probably deserved it,” but real people aren’t memes, they have a spectrum of attitudes. But I agree there’s no point trying to reason with MAGA, and I suggested OP focus on their own mental well-beling and not agonize about how to reach them.
If you think those people aren’t real, I got some bad news for you. Those memes are based on reality.
You CAN reason with them. But you can’t attack their idol. That’s not going to get you anywhere. There’s a lot more common ground between the two sides. You won’t know that by listening to the talking heads (for either side) preaching against the other.
Again, meme level thinking. I’m not saying memes and stereotypes don’t represent any real people, I’m saying they’re generalizations and caricatures designed to get a point across. People rarely fit an entire stereotype, they’re individuals. Dismissing vast swaths of the population as identical cardboard cutouts is lazy thinking. And admitting this does not make a political cause wrong, it’s just being realistic. There’s also no need to defend sloppy overgeneralization - you can be right enough without being 100.000% right.
I’m sorry for your situation. It’s definitely a tough place to be. My wife and I recently moved back to Canada–we were planning the move before the election, but the election results only confirmed our decision.
In terms of coping, one thing I’ve done is to try to remind myself that his followers are also victims, in a sense. Not that they don’t bear responsibility (every person who has supported him is responsible for the growing dumpster fire that is the US), but it’s like you said–Trump doesn’t care about them or their interests. And despite it being tempting to think every MAGA is just stupid (which is at least partly true), there’s some rationality to how they arrived there. It’s mostly due to fear-based reasoning mixed with misguided patriotism and their upbringing (and probably other factors). It doesn’t excuse what they’re doing, but if I’m honest, I might be in the same place as them if I had experienced life in their shoes. Still wrong, but it helps me at least humanize them in my own head and it lets my anger (at them) dwindle to pity instead. I also try to remember the ways I’ve been ignorant in my own past. Again, not to excuse anyone, just to deal with my own emotions.
In terms of speaking up, I haven’t had much luck. Most of his people are all in, and there is literally nothing that will change their mind. More often, I find that disengaging is more effective–mainly for my own sanity. If someone wants to engage, I try to remember to first ask them, “what would it take to change your mind about Trump?” When I’ve asked this, 95% of the time, the person responds with “nothing.” Then I confirm that there’s no point in having a conversation about it, because at this point, there’s nothing that will change my mind about him either (due to the overwhelming evidence of his character and misdeeds). At the end of the day, our principles simply don’t line up, so a conversation would be fruitless.
Not sure what your life situation is, but if you have the means to move somewhere else, that’s probably the best you could do. It also sends the strongest possible message to your community, and leaves the MAGA crowd to their infighting (rember, their ideology is based on blaming people–if all the “libs” leave town, they’re forced to find a new out-group and they slowly eat their own). It sucks, but there’s nothing much you can do as the minority to turn your community around (aside from offering support to any like-minded people).
Here’s hoping you can get out of it.
This holiday season I finally told my parents off for dismissing my sexual assault, just a few weeks before voting for drumpf for a third fucking time. They haven’t spoken to me since I said it so… guess that’s a win?
I’ve tried. My fiancé’s mother jumped through a lot of hoops to say the E Jean Carol court case was inaccurate. She said she didn’t like trump or kamala, but you could tell which way she leaned. I made the final comment “why are you jumping through all these hoops to defend a disgusting man you don’t even care about”
She seemed taken aback and embarrassed “I’m not! I don’t care about either of them”
sure.
Hopefully this will make you feel at least a little better…
My mom, who lives in a red county in a red state that is fairly impoverished has voted straight Republican her entire life. I begged and had multiple difficult conversations with her to vote for Kamala. Where I live my vote doesn’t matter because I live in a solidly blue state, but where she lives her vote matters.
She emailed me the day after the election to say for the first time in her life she voted for a democratic president.
There are good people out there, you’re not alone. Keep fighting the good fight.
I don’t speak up in those situations unless there’s a decent number of people on my side. It wouldn’t change anything if I did. I have a discord where my friends and I vent about the state of the world. That helps a little to at least keep my feet on the ground.
Yeah me and my fiance have been trying to just hsve more 2 on 1 convos with her parents. They seem a lot more reasonable that way. I wish I knew how to make friends online. I feel awkward when trying lol. Idk how to get over it 😅
Mine are RL friends we just talk online mostly these days. Online friends I’ve only been successful at making when I played WOW and some of them have continued on through the years. Nothing else has really stuck and I don’t have time for MMOs these days.
Then just leave, madam/sir (are you a madam/sir ?) You are free to leave & live alone
It’s pretty comfy & good for sanity (compared to what you’re facing now) This is an honest advice
It’s actually sir 😅 me and my fiance are living in the same state as my in laws many hours away. We live on our own with the exception of a roomate. We were visiting for the holidays and it was just a really gross ridiculous display to me. Me and my fiance both hate this state and are trying to figure out how to get the hell out of here as quickly as feasibly possible.
It sounds like they were visiting in-laws for holidays and was reminded how bad it is out there. From my cursory reading, they aren’t living in close proximity to this, but that doesn’t mean it stops existing.
Move. They won’t change. My sanity improved greatly when I moved to a blue city in a blue state away from my Trumper family. We will never be compatible.
we are really trying to… I think it would help a lot too.
I’m in Texas, but don’t really encounter Trumsters much. I have a couple of Republican coworkers, but even they’re over him now, or they just don’t talk about it in public.
Texas is very different than most people make it out to be, especially in the cities. I’ve lived all over this state, and I still love it here, even though the politics drive me insane sometimes.
People should understand that the politicians of a place rarely resemble the populace, especially in a state as heavily gerrymandered as Texas is.
As for talking with Trumpers, I find the most effective method is to find things we can agree on. As a leftist, I also have a lot of grievances with the Democratic Party. I’ve noticed that Republicans are more receptive of my opinions when we get the venting out of the way first, acknowledging their legitimate grievances that I can agree on, and then discussing my different solutions to those problems (a la Bernie Sanders as opposed to Trump).
You’d be surprised how many of them are willing to consider leftist solutions when you acknowledge that their complaints about the establishment are both real and valid.
I agree with all of this! It makes me sad when people hate on Texas and I try to add the word ‘politics’ in my head when i read Texas sucks comments. Most people can agree that there are problems and room for improvement on almost every issue. We just didn’t have to talk about what our preferred solutions are.
I feel like this diagram I saw recently says it all. The beige areas are states where “not voting” would have won the most recent election if it were a candidate.
Texas doesn’t have a Republican problem as much as an apathy problem. I firmly believe that a leftist libertarian package would motivate people down here. Beto was doing well until he went after the guns.
I honestly think a Bernie Sanders style candidate that leaves the guns and taxes alone while tackling education, housing, and healthcare would be a winning combination. The biggest issue there is simply overcoming the gerrymandering, so that candidate would need a major majority to actually win.
But anyone who can convince Texans to actually vote will change the course of history.
Most major cities in Texas are surprisingly progressive, the Republicans who do live there keep pretty low key. Move 10 minutes from a major city, and that’s where you see the loud and proud Tumpers.
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This is sofar out of my experience I don’t even get it. stickers on cards? credit cards? it was time to pay yeah? did they deface america(n currency)? I don’t get it.
This is why I don’t give a single fuck about politics. You both sides sound insane. Left wing, ring wing. Y’all suck.
I’ll stick with chicken wings.
Why does the left wing sound insane here?
Also this guy is just rambling and rambling.
In general they do. Not just here
So “this” is not why the left sounds insane, but “something else entirely” is why the left sounds insane?
You can continue not giving a fuck right up until everything collapses around you and you can’t understand why.
Is not like I can change anything about it
Feels like im thinking of Watchmen every other week now
"It doesnt take a genuis to realise that America has problems’ “Yeah, but it takes a fool to think they are small enough for you or me to handle them”
If we act together, there’s actually lot we can do about it. At the least, we can soften the blows. If you look in the right places you’ll find that some people are doing something about it and could use some extra help. Participation in local mutual aid groups has surged in the wake of the election.
