Wut? Was he talking about the previous Ukrainian government, sponsored by Russia™? I can’t make sense of what he is saying, actually.
I had to reread it a few times myself, but I’m pretty sure that’s what he’s talkin about
Because everyone knows Russia is well known for their totally legit free and fair elections/s
i got a veteran friend who would not take kindly to people saying her country should be permanently tied to a country whose name she refuses to spell correctly. the .ml tankists have, apparently, no concept of a false flag operation
Or they argue in bad faith.
I hope so because I don’t want to believe people can be so stupid they can probably not breathe and walk simultaneously.
When Russia interferes, it’s fair and democratic elections, when the west spens a few million on pro-democracy and anti-corruption initiatives it’s Western election interference and bad.
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Dude doesn’t know about Euromaidan. I wish some of these children would go to russia.
They like the idea of Russia, not actual Russia.
They believe euromaden was a western sponsored coup, the beginning of the end of Ukraine’s independence and the forced deportation of the nation from their Slavic brethren
Yogthos is the kind of piece of shit that “critically supports” bombing Ukrainian kindergartens and maternity wards as long as, somewhere in the world, at least one Western tear is shed over it. Blocking them makes the fediverse far less unpleasant.
One of the best decisions I’ve made
Wonder why that user account is above the rules of the instance and its communities. The modlog is full of examples which should apply to their behavior as well
They’re a mod of several .ml communities. Just like every communist dictatorship, laws and rules don’t matter when it’s the one in charge breaking them.
Let’s not pander the charade of that being communism
Perhaps there should be a new word for this communism that doesn’t oppress
Isn’t it just Marxism or communism.
Like democracy doesn’t have a new word because some people oppress in the name of it
Yep. Leninist aren’t communist. And never will be. They use the term ironically like magats use the term freedom. They make it their identity despite being opposed to it.
“Liberal communism”? :) Tankies would love it.
Lemmy.ml has banned him a couple of times for short periods though. Lemmygrad.ml is obviously perfectly ok with everything he’s saying. Some instances (such as the one I’m using) have also blocked him permanently.
I dont get how tankies can support a “communist” nation like China that has an investor class and whose system requires the mistreatment of the proletariat.
Because they don’t support communism. They just like one version of ogliarchy better than the other.
They’re authoritarians not communists ie. the ole schtick.
They’re just more people who’ve fallen victim to a well-funded propaganda campaign. Not much different than trumpets—in fact, they share many talking points! Amusingly, both groups would be offended by the comparison.
Don’t worry, someone will be along shortly to recommend 2000 pages of communist literature that wouldn’t even prove their point even if you read it all.
At least China goes through the motions of being Communist. They also somehow support 21st century Russia which is just openly an authoritarian oligarchy.
My ‘favorite’ is when they defend clerical fascism in Iran as some kind of fantastic anti-capitalist development,
The leftists allied with the religious nutjobs in the revolution, then got murdered immediately afterwards because the religious nutjobs didn’t want a leftist government that tolerated religion, they wanted an authoritarian theocracy. Some people somehow think that any leftist-backed revolution always goes brilliantly and ends up with utopian socialism or communism and no one ever exploits the post-revolutionary power vacuum for their own ends. That isn’t compatible with what happened, so instead, they must believe that the leftists survived being murdered and now run Iran.
Communists also literally do not care about democracy and seem to strongly believe that if anyone in the country wants something pretty socialist then than justifies overruling the reat of the country with all the military power it can muster if neecessary.
As a side note Islamic theocracy is immune to fascism given the fact that the ideal state in Islam is a theocracy. Theocracies and fascism are incompatible due to the supremacy of the faith in one vs the other.
Iran is just another theocratic totalitarian state. They are not fascists.
That’s overly simplistic. Fascists and theocrats work together to gain power for all the time. See the current marriage of Trump and Christian Nationalists in the United States, for example.
That has nothing to do with my claim which is specific to Islam. As Islam posits a caliphate as the ideal state it is incompatible with fascism which requires faith to be subservient to the state. Iran cannot be as Muslim fascist theocracy
There is often a very large gap between what is seen as ideal and what pans out in reality. Fascism is absolutely a possible result of an attempt to establish a caliphate, just as an authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy - sooner or later - is a possible result of an attempt to establish communism.
If you end up fascist you cannot be a Muslim theocratic state which is what Islam posits as the ideal this you cannot have a state that is both fascist and an Islamic theocracy. This combination is entirely possible for other faiths that do not posit an ideal state.
You cannot be both.
Islamic theocracy is fundamentally incompatible with fascism as the ideal state posed by Islam is a caliphate aka a theocratic monarchal state.
“Because they’ll eventually take away their wealth or kill them” is an argument I’ve actually seen on .ml. I’m not against the sentiment of getting rid of the capitalists but cmon, when someone says China isn’t socialist and points at a clearly capitalist behavior you can’t be “it’s still socialist because the capitalist thing will be fixed in the future”. Then every country might as well be socialist, we’ll just fix capitalism at some later date.
The “Party” sits above the “Money” in their power structure, unlike most of the Capitalist countries nowadays were (after 4 decades of Neoliberalism) Money is a power above that of the State (and remember, the State is what the voters supposedly control in Democracy, so that means that Money is a higher power than Democracy, which is why many have pointed out that countries like the US are Oligarchies not Democracies).
And, for reference, in Fascism too (or, in fact, all other Autocratic systems) the State sits above Money, so I’m hardly saying that by itself that is enough to make that system good
The real hypocrisy of tankies, IMHO, is that the “Communist” nations they support in a tribalist way still have elites, they’re just not chosen via Money but instead via ability of climbing up the Party ranks (so Cronyism and Sociopathy) whilst genuine Leftwing thinking is about Equality, the very opposite of there being people who get privileged treatment for any reason other than need (that reason being money as in Capitalist system or something else is quite irrelevant in Leftwing thinking)
If you just see them as tribalists wedded to an ideology shaped by a specific kind of elites who use a specific kind of slogans around Equality to support the continuation of the structure that maintains their elite privileges, (which is parallel to what’s done in Capitalism which similarly has the whole bullshit about how wealth is the product of merit to justify discrimination based on wealth) you can understand why tankies would think what they do about China.
They’re still mindless simpleton tribalists, but it’s interesting to understand how using as foundation for ones own judgement an ideology controlled by somebody else without doing at the very least some analysing of it just as easily yields a tankie, a Fascist or a (Neo)liberal depending on which ideological bundle of slogans they’ve unquestioningly adopted.
Brainrot. That’s how. Some people just aren’t very resilient to propaganda. Actually… Huge numbers of people aren’t.
Huh. And here I thought Yogthos was a Chinese plant. Turns out they like the taste of Russian leather just the same.
Frankly I suspect many pinch hit for both teams.
Average Yogthos verbal vomit.
Ah yes, the famously communist Russian Federation. The RF is nakedly an imperial fascist regime that doesn’t even have communist window dressing, it boggles the mind that self-proclaimed communists and anti-imperialists support them.
RF is a Cult of personality, pretending to be a Mafia, pretending to be an empire. pretending to be a gas station masquerading as a state.
Careful you’ll get banned from .ml for saying that… :)-
Well in that case:
Ah yes, the famously communist Russian Federation. The RF is nakedly an imperial fascist regime that doesn’t even have communist window dressing, it boggles the mind that self-proclaimed communists and anti-imperialists support them.
Lmao
Me too please! to make sure it works i put it in my bio too.
Ah yes, the famously communist Russian Federation. The RF is nakedly an imperial fascist regime that doesn’t even have communist window dressing, it boggles the mind that self-proclaimed communists and anti-imperialists support them.
It almost feels like posting yogthos is cheating
Yogthos drank the vatnik koolaid.
The best part is that he is a very well paid software engineer living in ThE WeSt.
Couldn’t be more of a hypocrite if he fuckin’ tried.
When in ml, do as the red fascists do.
Yogthos is either a fully paid professional propagandist or a highly skilled amateur. Probably the latter.
I’d call him(?) the single worst person of lemmy for the reason that every time he speaks of things that have nothing to do with politics, he seems like an absolutely cool dude. I remember even that in the first weeks of Russia’s aggression on Ukraine, he was being kinda somber and realistic about it. But then The Message somehow reached him and he started spouting Russia’s propaganda at full blast. He’s clearly intelligent and literate while doing this, which is just doubly sad.
In him, Communism has completely ruined a perfectly good person, and it’s a tragedy every time it happens.
Oh that guy. He spends all day on Lenny pushing pro-Russia and pro-Chinese propaganda. It’s probably his job. I’ve asked him to hook me up with extra work, but no leads yet.
I blocked the cunt very early on. Still looking forward to being able to do *@lemmy.ml and get all of them.
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lol a tankie that assumes everyone that disagrees with them is a capitalist. 🙄
It’s the posting all-day every day that makes me think it’s a job.
I wouldn’t expect the mom’s-basement-communists to get that though.
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Same to you, comrade. Have a gooder, bud.
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You have to put them in cuffs first, then bust out the dicktionary.
Lmao, it’s yogthos. Canada’s most notorious freedom fighter lmao.
/s.
That dip couldn’t find the freedom he is “fighting” for if Marx drew him a map with directions.
Yeah, the reason he’s so happy about everything Russia does is that he’s a software engineer with over a decade of experience living in Canada, he’s living the cozy life and literally never going back to Russia because he’s way too soft for that at this point.
That particular post also got me banned from the community. I said something to the tune that I’ll agree with the state department on China, North Korea and Russia/Ukraine, but disagree on Cuba and Israel/Palestine, which probably makes me more of a leftist than all those dictator simping tankies. Someone did not like me pointing that out.
You ever point out to those people that Russia and China are very much NOT communist countries nowadays and people only simp for them because it’s opposition to American global hegemony… Yeah you’ll just get banned. I’ve been banned from .ml memes AND hexbear memes communities by now.
Yogthos is always here to provide the shittiest of takes and the most phallical of fallacies.
Yogthos is a clown
I honestly can’t tell if these .ml guys in these discussions are trolling or just spouting retarded nonsense and calling everyone a Nazi for the sake of it
Hey, no judgement, but we’re trying to cut down use of the r-term around here, as a courtesy to those who it’s been used to unfairly hurt. Just for future reference.
And on and on the euphemism train goes, where’s the next stop? There’s going to be a slur for the mentally deficient, tell me which one you endorse.
None. Don’t insult people over stuff they can’t control. Call them ignorant shitheads not ugly/retarded/etc.
So shithead is the new slur for mental deficiency?
Is that what you call unintelligent uneducated indoctrinated rural people who piss you off with zealotry and hate?
Ignorance is not a disability, it’s a choice. So no, it’s not a slur for mental deficiency.
First of all, resorting to insults, great show of intelligence.
Second of all, if you need me to explain to you the difference between ignorance and stupidity, or the average bigot and people with actual mental disability then you have some catching up to do before we can discuss this topic.
A tad derivative, don’t ya think?
Thank goodness you’re here. Next thing you know, somebody is going to ask ME to be polite too!
Censorship isn’t asked. It’s just enforced.
When you can’t be mean, you can’t really speak your mind about people you hate. Like political figures, and certain moderators.
Right now it seems I’m not being shut up. I guess it’s up to you whether or not to shut me up.
Just know that a lot of the people that get shut out of “decent” places are people you meet outside, and they’ve been getting weird the last few years. I’m gonna argue it’s causative. It doesn’t exactly feel great to be permanently banned. It’s not very normal or human. It’s exile at a handwave. No warmth, no humanity.
But you think I’m cold and cruel and awful because I call stupid people retarded, or I guess shitheads now.
Fuck’s sake.
Not fond of George Carlin, I see.
Nevermind, I’ve learned that the new R-word is shithead. Seems more vulgar and insulting but whatever, that’s fine.
I wonder how many of them work in russia and china. their shittakes are hilariously tanky
I kind of wish they are trolling and we’re dumb for taking the bait. I mean it’s unlikely as I’ve met true believers (both Nazi and tanky) before IRL and these people sound exactly the same, but who knows.
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What happened 10 years ago in the east? Was it Russia invading due to oil reserve discoveries?
I know Ukrainians. I know eastern Ukrainians who protested against Yanukovych and were shot at so he could keep his gold loves of bread. I also know Russian/Ukrainians whose families emigrated to Ukraine after the USSR ethnically cleansed Crimea of the Tartars. Ukraine is a place with a complex past and lots of internal issues. But those issues are INTERNAL. They should have the right to work them out themselves. Russia invaded for oil and natural gas resources, plus the black sea ports. The rest is propaganda.
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They’ve been at war for ten years. That’s like saying the US systematically killed German speakers for 4 years in the 1940’s. And they haven’t banned all opposition parties, just the Russian ones.
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I’m just going to leave these right here. You don’t have to click on them, but it would be cool if you did.
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You mean the Russians made some shit up to justify invading Ukraine? Yeah we know that. And filling the streets with people doesn’t work without the people. No matter what you want to say.
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For those who like me can’t read the original meme text:
“Leftists” whose political opinions on China, DPR Korea, Cuba, Israel, and Ukraine mirror the U.S. State Department’s position
And then the face the person is seeing in the mirror is a clown.
I wouldn’t have even tried to engage on the China / N Korea / Ukraine side of the analogy. The other one is a lot more absurd. I don’t think there is any non-trivial number of “leftists” on Lemmy who think that Israel “has a right to defend herself” and deserves tons of weapons, or that Cuba is a terrorist state.
Israel “has a right to defend herself”
It does but what it does far exceeds legitimate defence. And what it does also isn’t building Zionism because antagonising people goes directly against the goal of creating a place for Jews to live in peace and prosperity.
I gave up on it when the fucker killed Rabin and it’s been a constant slide into full-on fascism since then, as in, fascist modes of thinking captured more and more of Israeli politics to the point where even the left is largely cooked. They may disavow what Amir did but they still share his outlook towards “security”. They may not be actively genocidal but still support “antagonise until Palestinians give up”. The situation is fucked in pretty much every way that a situation can possibly be fucked.
Fully agreed. If it wasn’t clear from my quotation marks, I think Israel is now actively exterminating a civilian population, after pursuing a policy of slow extermination spanning back for decades, with the goal of eventually eradicating the state and people of Palestine completely. And that policy of slow extermination led to the atrocities of October 7th as an absolutely predictable consequence. I put quotes around “defend herself” because that’s how the State Department talks about it, but nothing Israel is doing right now makes any sense in that context or any other aside from exterminating Palestinians as fast as they can get away with. Netanyahu refusing to say if he agrees to the current latest cease-fire in exchange for getting all the hostages back before they’re all dead, is just yet another prime example from today.
He doesn’t want the hostages back. He wants to kill Palestinians, and if them having hostages makes that easier, then he’s in favor of them keeping the hostages. I don’t know why anyone who writes about geopolitics buys into the ludicrous framework of it being any other way, let alone this fantasy of “defend herself.” I get why the State Department says that. They’re lying on purpose to accomplish their goals. What the newspapers are doing when they say it, I couldn’t tell you.
Could you elaborate on Cuban or Cuban-sponsored terrorism? I mostly agree with the US positions on these except for Cuba and maybe Israel. I also don’t know Cuba that well. I know that some Cuban protests are suppressed, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what terrorism means.
The US has been saying since the 80s that Cuba is a sponsor of state terrorism. I think it’s mostly made up because they’re communist and we don’t like them. I think maybe Castro did a little bit of what when we do it is called “covert ops,” but I’m not aware of Cuba being any kind of major sponsor of terrorism, in the same way that Saudi Arabia or Israel is, for example.
The State Department has some very minor legitimate beef with modern-day Cuba because they suppressed some protests, yes, and put a few hundred people in prison more or less for being the opposition. Every so often they do minor dictator stuff like that which we officially tut-tut at them for. On the whole, though, our beef with Cuba is just because nobody’s forgotten the days when Che Guevara was public enemy number one, and Cuba got away with being on his side, and for no other reason that’s more logical than that one.
The US has been saying since the 80s that Cuba is a sponsor of state terrorism.
Angola stuff, I think. Not that our hands were clean in that conflict.
