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Everyone involved in her arrest and detainment is a criminal.
Little old lady spends 20 months in prison for blocking a main road and being mad at rich people.
President of the United States, insurrectionist, creep, man who suggested he’d got a Nazi to hack the elections, certified felon, spends ZERO months in prison and gets to have a party.
This is why I smoke weed.
It’s why I don’t.
Also fair. Whatever helps.
Oh, fuck off.
I apologise if the frequency of my drug use offends you.
Yeah. Don’t give the fascists an excuse to send you to prison for a victimless crime.
On the flip side, they’ve got plenty of excuses they can use, I’mma smoke my weed, haha
I am going to jail for thought crime with Trump, weed just pauses the crippling reality around me where I can enjoy silly cat videos and video games on my off time from being an adult.
Why are there anti-weed people on Lemmy? Is weed against Chinese law? I know we have those propagandists here…
I am not anti weed.
At the same time. I don’t judge someone for their preferences and understand why they wouldn’t want to.
ALSO! Stop throwing around accusations like “chinese propagandist” please. I said nothing that could justify that. Lighten up.
Friend, buddy, pal, I literally used to deal it. You may be smoking too much if you are managing to see a conspiracy here.
I just don’t want to be locked into a thought-spiral about how awful the world is, which is how I tend to react to weed nowadays.
Just more proof that in the fight of money vs. morality, money always wins.
The “disruptive protests are bad” people are straight garbage pieces of shit. You know what is disruptive? Blizzards in Florida, wildfires in California and Canada, and mass migrations of island people due to oceans rising. So go fuck yourselves with this “boo hoo traffic got held up a couple minutes “ bullshit you fucking pussies.
Well put. The same dumbfucks who decry the visual pollution of looking at windmills but don’t realize actual smog is the alterntative.
The “disruptive protests are bad” people are straight garbage pieces of shit.
Strawman. There are no such people. You are mischaracterizing criticism of JSO methodology as criticism of their cause.
When you’re protesting racism in February, 1960, do you plan a sit-in protest at a “Whites Only” diner? JSO methodology would have you picket a black-owned restaurant that caters to minorities, to “bring attention” to the problem. As if their audience had no clue that the problem existed.
When you’re protesting homophobia in the 90s, do you attend a pride parade? Based on their current methodology, JSO would have slow-walk in front of a gay bar, to “bring attention” to discrimination on the basis of sexuality by disrupting attendance of that bar. As if their audience didn’t already know that they were victims of homophobia.
If you’re protesting the health insurance industry in the 2020s, do you “Occupy ERs”, or do you Player 2 an insurance executive? Based in their current methodology, JSO would camp out in an ambulance bay, to “bring attention” to the plight of the sick and injured. As if patients didn’t realize how badly they were being screwed by “insurers”.
JSO (et al) is “disrupting” the general public instead of “disrupting” agents, subsidiaries, or beneficiaries of the oil industry. They are targeting the public as if the public has no clue that we are being screwed over.
JSO could be making just as big a spectacle, and bringing just as much attention to the problem by targeting gas stations, ICE car dealerships, and other public faces of the oil industry. Instead, they are “disrupting” fellow victims of that industry.
Yes, we need disruptive protests: we need the
oil industry to be disrupted.
The oil industry. Not the general public.
JSO should be driving a wedge between the transportation industry and the oil industry. Fuel stations are probably the most obvious: take action against any fuel station that doesn’t offer EV charging. (Later, you can target “gas” stations that refuse to abandon there legacy pumps).
Car dealerships: target any dealer that doesn’t have EVs front and center on their lots.
Muffler shops: drive them completely out of business; they shouldn’t exist at all.
Some states have emission testing requirements that affect only the drivers of ICE vehicles. Disrupting the operation of testing centers prevents ICE vehicle owners from being able to register their vehicles.
The blockade power stations and airfield quite often.
But those ones barely make news, let alone front page news.
Also major motorways outside a large city is much more like marching your protestors down main street in Birmingham, US or marching on a capital city, getting those city centre shut down for Blacks and Whites alike than sitting in a Blacks only eatery.
The blockade power stations and airfield quite often.But those ones barely make news, let alone front page news.
Then they are wasting their time and shouldn’t be doing that either.
Oh, I thought targeted at oil industry specifically was what you were asking for.
They also spent 3 days disrupting one of the largest petrol company sites in the UK a few years back. Very little media coverage, no care from the general public, no result.
The big march on Washington style disruptions at least gets something. Even if you complain.
The big march on Washington style disruptions at least gets something.
It gets harsher sentences on jaywalking. It alienates the general public from their cause. The general reaction to obstructing traffic is for the general public to overtly support police brutality.
They would be better off with better tactics against more appropriate targets.
MLK’s protests weren’t “non-violent”. They worked specifically because there was violence: Violence committed against the protesters. They were martyred by the same racists who created the problems.
JSO tactics aren’t going to work, because the protesters aren’t being martyred by the oil industry. It’s the general public that has a problem with their tactics. By and large, the general public has demonstrated considerable restraint by using only that force necessary to get around their various obstructions. They aren’t being martyred.
Criticism of these protesters is not based on their cause, but solely on their protest. Contrast with these protesters: They are being attacked not because they are in the streets, but because of who they are. They are being martyred.
I think the key is who it is disruptive to. Blocking traffic just pisses off the average person. The decision makers don’t care about the average person. You gotta disrupt the decision makers. But you also have to be prepared for them to fight back hard.
The average person needs to start caring too. Too many zombies out there.
Sounds great, but you might as well shout at the rain. It isn’t going to happen.
This sort of defeatist take is not helping anyone either.
We need more Luigis.
our society is rapidly producing them, it seems like there’s an intent to make angrier, disaffected people even.
And these disruptions can be more than just an inconvenience. People can lose their jobs for being late. They can miss medical appointments and procedures.
A non-disruptive protest is masturbation.
A protest is disruption.
That’s why protests in designated protest zones out of the eyelines and more importantly away from the profit operations of those being protested are an intentional and effective method of completely neutering protest.
We have protest in the US. It just doesn’t mean anything anymore.
People hate protests even though they absolutely work because those people are for the status quo. I truly believe centrists are not actually on a line in between “right” and “left,” but rather their own node so we all make a triangle. Much of what centrists believe are not anything like what the rest of us believe, but they are cowards who DESPERATELY want to be seen as the norm, as one of us by everyone (which is why they try to claim a “center” position, while the fascists and anti-fascists both recognize there is no middle ground between the two).
Centrism therefore should not be looked at as a mix of right and left, but as a mix of mainly centrist goals and thoughts. Teasing out centrism from the left will help us progress.
https://news.gallup.com/vault/246167/protests-seen-harming-civil-rights-movement-60s.aspx
Except many of us who actually care about the cause say this because traffic delays and vandalizing paintings irritate the fuck out of people and set them against the cause of the protest. You can spew more profanity against for being like that if you wish, but it doesn’t change facts.
It’s like finding a way to stage a protest that just makes eggs more expensive. Yay protest! But don’t expect any good to come of it.
Many protests like that in Germany for a few years now. Mostly adolescent people from XR and FFF who tacked their hands to streets in neuralgic locations with superglue. They were one of the most hated groups by normies here and were compared to the 70s terror group RAF by politicians and boulevard media like BILD. Many videos in which good citizens forgot their temper and acted out in violent self justice when they feared to get late to work.
In 2023 the country wide farmer protests started and held the republic captive. Thousands of 5-10 ton tractors drove down the whole country to Berlin. They did a lot of terroristy things like loading huge manure dumps and logs in the midst of highways and their exits, controlling the IDs of drivers to only let essential staff through, putting liable anti-constitutional placards on their tractors, purposefully obstructing traffic in the cities and some of them from east-germany wanted to storm the parliament. People died, car accidents happened, ambulances and doctors were to late for operations, huge loads of GHGs were emitted and streets were destroyed.
All this because of the traffic light coalition wanted to cut subsidies for agrar fuels which was reverted pretty fast. Did the farmers stop then? Nope of course not. Went on for a few months. Those poor farmers couldn’t afford to live without the precious subsidies but could afford to blow heaps of fuel and not working on their farms. A young farmer tried to prove to the public that they were essentially poor by showing his tax documents on the german finance subreddit. It didn’t went well because he was rich. He deleted his post.
Now from the sentiment on social media you could get the impression that a lot of the normies who wanted to have the “Klimakleber” (climate gluers) jailed or worse, cheered for the poor hard working farmers even when the protest really went violent. I live rurally and boy let me tell you how those poor farmers have plastered their barns and houses with solar panels because of the politics of the greens and the subsidies from the EU.
“Give me convenience or give me death”
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Protest all you want. I’m not getting late to work because of you. I also care about the climate, but holding up traffic isn’t going to get me on your side
That’s because you only care about the status quo. Congrats, you’re part of the problem. Remember that if you’re ever confronted with rising flood waters with your boss saying you can’t leave. Just repeat “ I want this”
How does missing work help the climate? Genuine question, but I’ve been fired when a car broke down over the weekend, and I couldn’t get another one before Monday. I don’t see how it was better that I wound up spending the money I was saving for an electric car on an old junker so I didn’t miss rent and get evicted.
Edit: Just tell me you don’t have an answer instead of downvoting, this isn’t Reddit.
We in Europe forget that you yanks can get fired for things like a car break down or a protest stopping you from getting to work on time.
You should probably get some workers rights protests. Consider strikes.
Yeah, we absolutely need to start with worker rights. I think part of the problem is that we in America have been on the nationalist train for so long that we’re simply unaware of how good it could be.
It’s nuts that people over here think my state law of 1 hour PTO awarded for every 40 hours worked is too much of a burden for employers.
I’d rather see disruptive action taken against gas stations, ICE car dealers, muffler shops, and other entities directly associated with the oil industry.
When JSO stops asking lawmakers to make “jaywalking” a felony offense, and they eventually get around to actually “stopping oil”, let me know.
Nice, you completely misinterpreted my comment. Applaud yourself 👏👏
You muppet.
They didn’t.
You just didn’t like the translation of your words into their consequences.
Most Nazi civilians weren’t evil in any special unique way. They just didn’t care about any moral framework more than they cared about not having the status quo broken.
It’s an aspect of the banality of evil.
Your attitude, sadly the most common attitude, is the main driving force for the most heinous of outcomes.
Here it is being used to justify the literal end of the fucking human race and turning our planet into Venus.
Yeah bro get people who support your cause fired from their jobs so you can not actually do anything whatsoever to help your cause because you’re not doing anything to affect the actual people who are causing environmental collapse, you’re just fucking with other working class people trying to survive.
God forbid an ambulance or fire engine gets stuck there too. Or am I too much of a nazi for caring about solidarity?
Go to DC and protest the capitol steps. Block entrances to fossil fuel corpo offices. Do something actually meaningful; but you won’t because you don’t actually give as much of a fuck as you pretend you do, so you pick the lazy option and shit on people who tell you why it’s bad and pointless.
👍
Lost your words?
🖕
edit: lmfao, that one impotent downvote.
“I’m not being late for work “. The rest was to make that statement not what it was.
You aren’t going to join their side either way. You just care about getting to work on time. You only care about the climate as much as it affects your day to day life, so I wouldnt go around telling people I care about the climate if I was you.
Nope. Wrong again. These ad hominem attacks that assume my position do nothing to further discourse. I actively support and vote for eco-friendly parties, and would participate in protests if and only if they gained widespread traction. I’m not going to protest when most people don’t give enough of a fuck about climate. Disruptive protests will only create more dissent and worse amongst those that share the same sentiments.
The George Floyd protests would’ve never worked if they remained localized to Minnesota, were disruptive and had very few participants. It needed to be nationalized. The common people must also be united on the same goal. Most people don’t care enough about climate change yet to support disruptive protests. I’m simply trying to be practical and realise that the way most climate change activist groups are going about raising awareness isn’t working.
The JustStopOil protests have been going on for years and yet there’s been no action by any government. Wouldn’t it be smart to consider other avenues of awareness creation? A wise man once said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”.
The JustStopOil protests have been going on for years and yet there’s been no action by any government.
That’s not true. Government have indeed acted in response to JSO protests.
They have increased penalties for jaywalking and obstructing traffic.
A wise man once said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”.
Vote harder next time!
They aren’t even reading what they write 🤣
As if it’s not the people who didn’t vote that caused the problem lmao
+1
Yeah I know, God forbid anything interrupt my employers steady exploitation of me for financial gain
Real protest vote to fight genocide and directly cause a demonstrably worse outcome vibes with this comment.
If they stop being exploited, they stop being able to pay their bills. Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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Protest all you want. I’m not getting late to work because of you
So are you gonna plow through them? Sounds like a sane response to being late for work.
And if you care about the climate I have bad news - we would already be on the same side, but you only care up to the point that it will impact you personally, and that is why you suck.
we would already be on the same side, but you only care up to the point that it will impact you personally,
We would already be on the same side, but you’re more focused on “making Jaywalking a Felony”.
JSO does not stand for “Just Stop (everyone except) Oil”.
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You wish you could murder people for making you late. That tells us all everything we need to know about you and what kind of person you are.
👍
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You wish you could murder people who inconvenience you?
…well…i mean…yeah
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You are a terrible person, on the inside
As we can see, on the outside too.
No, i think I don’t like to be inconvenienced that’s what.
And you think its normal to wish you could murder people without consequence?
I feel a lot of people held up in traffic by these protests have that wish. So even if not normal, it’s common.
Go to anger management classes before you murder someone.
It is not acceptable to wish committing vehicular manslaughter against people who slightly annoy you.
What about Steve at the office? That guy REALLY annoys me. Is he fair game?
Go to anger management classes
Anger management classes focus on directing anger appropriately, as opposed to lashing out against others.
JSO’s anger at the oil industry does not justify taking action against the general public.
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Quick anger management lesson for you: direct that anger at a car dealership that doesn’t have any electric vehicles on the lot.
Not at random people going about their business.
There is a reason for the difference between how society has reacted to school shooters vs Luigi.
Er… the strategies given to people to manage their own emotional state don’t exactly translate to, you know, anything else. You gotta know that.
You are a fucking joke. Full stop.
👍
Is this dude a cunt? His comments got removed
He said that it was an appropriate response to drive through protesters on a road because he might be late for work. And then doubled down on that being a normal response to being inconvenienced.
Run of the mill conservative energy.
Iirc they didn’t even block the road. They hung signs and climbed into the poles above the road. The police blocked the road. This has all the energy of the police calling a protest a riot when they were the violent ones. They escalate it, blame the protestors, and people like you eat it up.
Get fucked you self-centered dickhead. Why go to work? What are you saving money for if it’s in serious danger of burning down? Can you eat your cash if it becomes worthless?
My god, so much lack of insight and foresight.
Unhinged take what the actual fuck
Get a brain, numbnuts.
The take is completely hinged.
If you want the protesters gone, vote for the party that will give in to their demands. You seem like a practical sort who only cares about results. Give them what they want and they’ll go away.
Who told you I don’t already vote for eco-friendly parties?
Good. Next step: write an email to your representative saying you’re sick of these protesters and you want the government to do whatever they say so they’ll go away.
This is one of those nuanced positions that it appears Lemmy users are incapable of understanding.
It’s possible to simultaneously care about climate change and acknowledge that some protests are counter productive.
If you’d said “I don’t like to stop at the altar to pray for climate change action on my way to work because it seems pointless” that would’ve been a statement.
I think the core problem is that the majority of people just don’t care. The US just elected a president who will take no action. Protesting isn’t going to make people care.
I hope they don’t organise marathons or street fairs where you’re at, or worse, resurface a road.
What’re you gonna do about it then?
Some time ago a politician in my country announced they would start treating the people who protested at highways harsher. She said “people think these people are just protestors, but they’re criminals”* and that they were “damaging the rule of law”*.
* Translated
Earlier on Tuesday, the College for Human Rights ruled that the right to demonstrate is “under serious pressure” due to the arrests of activists. They had called for the blockade of the important thoroughfare.
Yesilgöz does not respond to this criticism. She says that the Ministry of Justice and Security will look into it together with the Ministry of the Interior. The ministry is already looking into the right to demonstrate, about which reports have been published *2.
/* 2 They’re currently looking into methods to restrict the right to demonstrate.
It’s honestly really worrying how people just accept and even approve of these actions. It’s not just because people are being inconvenienced, almost everyone I spoke to never noticed it themselves and that’s honestly the scary part.
There are states in America where it’s legal to run over protestors.
They say it’s only if the driver feels threaten but already had examples of drivers getting away after either driving though people leaving or going out of their way to drive into the protests so it looks like they’re just trying to get away from the protestors as they run them over
It was surreal to read about talk of extremism, social disruption and the calls for corporal punishment (by police), long jail sentences and more, all for a 5-10 minute delay caused by the A12 blockade, when the day after I was helping out at the Egmond Half Marathon there was real disruption, where people really couldn’t go places with their cars… not to mention events like the Dam tot Damloop or Amsterdam Marathon that effectively put parts of our capital city on lockdown. No calls for water cannons there.
People might say “Those are not the same!” and that’s true - sport events are not a constitutional right.
Or when EU farmers transformed Brussels into a warzone [1] or caused havoc and many (also fatal) accidents in Germany [2] and France [3]?
“That’s different. One are terrorists and the others are fighting for you to still have food on your table”.
Ok. Got it. I’ll do my patriotic duty and won’t buy any greenhouse produced veggies from the Netherlands anymore and start drinking German milk again.
[1] AP article about farmer protests in Brussels
People might say “Those are not the same!” and that’s true - sport events are not a constitutional right.
Hehe, I grinnikked
Yeah, sport events like that normally work with emergency services so that there are alternate or controlled routes for things like ambulances and fire trucks.
Meanwhile highway protests can block emergency services with no forethought. Imagine your parent died of a heart attack because EMS couldn’t get past some people blocking a road in a protest meant to inconvenience the general public who mostly already agree with their overall goals.
The A12 protest is very willing to coordinate emergency routes, in any case they allow for emergency service passage (this regularly happens), and their location is easily routed around. Overall their impact is less than run of the mill roadworks and not comparable in the slightest to a major event.
stfu bootlicker
This Kafka-esque bullshit is all intentional to scare other protesters.
Exactly.
These protests are often enough extremely mild but get prosecuted like terrorist, while much more violent protests get a slap on the wrist at max.
Here in Germany, right wing farmers protested by illegally blocking entire cities with their tractors, much worse interruptions than the glued-to-the-street teenager, and they actually threatened violence. Yet, only a handful of them got any form of legal trouble, and that only for petty stuff.
Guess, which protesters threatened the status quo and which just wanted more money out of the system?
Oh we had the farmers block a city here in the UK too.
Some washed up, abusive, TV presenter worked them up when the government changed the laws to inheritance tax that he had avoided by buying a farm.
Yeah, no one was arrested there either.
thats sort of similar to the Exxon Valdez spill and the Alaskan fisherman blockading their waters. It sort of went the same, the fisherman got a good deal, but then a few years later another judge changed the deal to fuck over the fisherman.
If she had just attacked some police officer during Jan 6. she would have been free.
Instead she disrespects Big Oil that’s upholding the American core values.
/S
Guardian is british, so she should have dumped sewage or murdered a trans woman if she wanted to go free.
She’s British and this happened in GB
Ups I missed that.
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Anyone who blocks roads to protest is just fucking with the little people. Go block billionaires driveways or their offices, don’t bother and piss off other regular people you want on your side
Many methods of protest should make normal people angry. That’s the entire point. Protests exist to be disruptive.
Block a billionaire’s driveway, and they fly to a private luxury penthouse and don’t have to deal with you ever again.
Block major roads, and everybody realizes that the only way they’re going to get to work on time in a consistent manner going forward is by actually satisfying your movement’s demands, voting against oil company supporting politicians, demanding they stop subsidizing fossil fuels, etc.
Making one billionaire’s life marginally harder won’t convince them to change anything. Making thousands or even millions of people’s lives harder on a regular basis until they collectively force the billionaires to stop will most certainly change something.
This argument is like if you demanded that during the Civil Rights Movement protests, nobody ever did sit-ins at restaurants because it would annoy the patrons, but wasn’t going directly after the politicians involved. In actuality, that was a key driver of furthering the movement, because not only did it make it difficult to maintain white-only infrastructure without annoyance, thus causing some business owners to rescind their policies since it was more trouble than it’s worth, but it also gave people who were more on the fence a prescient reason to stop being segregationist.
In this analogy, the restaurants are the roads, the patrons are the people driving in their cars, and the business owner is the government managing the roads.
Once it becomes more difficult to maintain the current status quo, instead of having functional roads by caving to public pressure and ending subsidies, stopping new fossil fuel development, and migrating to cleaner alternatives, then those exact changes will get implemented.
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was sentenced to 20 months in prison for her participation in a climate protest on the M25 in 2022
This woman is one of the people that made me late to school in 2022. This woman directly inconvenienced my life and the lives of many other people who had much more dire consequences.
Absolutely 0 sympathy. Fuck around, find out
I don’t know what it is about the British Isles but they produce some of the most bat shit insane takes I’ve ever read. “This person made me late to school one time, so she should spend an extra month in prison.” Like that is the most lead micromoles per litre of blood I’ve seen written in text.
Yea she should
If their school journey required driving along the M25 their school, was, odds on, a posh twuntian egoscape. They’re from money and benefit hugely from the system, but don’t see it because of all that hard work they have done at some point sucking on their silver spoon.
Us British plebs don’t need to drive along the capital city’s outer ring road to get to the local state school.
Did you know that one traffic event can impact traffic over the entirety of southern England? I don’t take the M25 but this event impacted the entire transport pipeline. Also, just because you’re in London doesn’t mean your rich. London has some of the highest deprivation in the country.
No, being in London doesn’t mean you’re rich. But if you live in Greenwich you don’t get anywhere near the M25 to get to your state school.
Go ahead and list those dire consequences, I’ll wait.
And late for school? You are fucking kidding right? What would you want if someone stole your bike, the death penalty? You sound like a child.
I don’t think her jail sentence should be extended for that ridiculous reason but I still don’t feel any sympathy for her
And late for school? You are fucking kidding right?
So i should give up my right to have an education because a few lunatics decided that I should listen to THEM instead of my teachers? No fucking way.
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Mkay, I’m sure being called a piece of shit will get me to agree with your cause.
I couldn’t give a shit if you agree with me.
Where do you go to school that the sentence, “Sorry I’m late, protests caused the traffic to come to a stop.” would force you to give up your right to have an education?
The school didn’t give out detentions for people being late that day because hundreds of students AND teachers were late. The detention wasn’t the consequence, it was the fact that people missed entire lessons, teachers couldn’t set up, it disrupted the entire day for everyone.
These morons decided that their pettiness exceeded anyone’s desire or need to work or learn. And because of that I refuse to see any reason to be sympathetic to them.
Why am I, and all the people working hard to educate themselves and others, inconvenieced instead of the gigantic oil companies that will have a greater impact on the planet in 1 year than all of us will in 100. These people should be ashamed of themselves.
That must be how innocent white people felt when their meals that they paid for were interrupted by black people illegally sitting in their restaurants. The other diners weren’t to blame. Why didn’t the protesters just go after Big Restaurant and leave the law abiding diners to exercise their right to dine in peace?
That is in no way comparable. These are privileged people who have had zero hardship in life so they feel guilty and join a climate group. Don’t even fucking tell me that this is in any way comparable to racism. Whenever lemmy users come up with an analogy for something it’s always Nazis and racism, just please stop emotionally escalating EVERYTHING and talk like a normal human being.
I’m not comparing it to racism, you’re taking the wrong point from that. Protests aren’t supposed to make you comfortable. They are meant to disrupt, even if you are just trying to mind your own business. Not every white person in my analogy is racist or against black rights, my point was to show how dumb they would be for voicing annoyance. Climate protestors didn’t ruin your life or even your day, just like sit in protestors didn’t harm anyone else. You are just dramatic and have main character syndrome.
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An education won’t matter if we’re all dead
I am mildly inconvenicenced for a short term, I demand to restrict basic freedoms and go for the highest sentence!
God help I even change my life a little to protect the life of literally billions of people.
Yes. I am self centred. I demand basic rights to freedom be restricted, because these people did the same to thousands. I’m not going to decide not to go to school because a couple of hippies decided to do a protest
And me not going to school won’t save the lives of billions of people. Such a braindead comment.
You are a dickhead.
Circumcised or uncut?
I don’t suppose it matters. What’s more concerning is that you’re probably unwashed and covered in smegma.
Good news, we are on a good track to do jack shit about the climate and also severely cutting into rule of law and right to protest. Hooray.
Luckily, there is nothing you could do to change things, ever. It must be nice to have a clear conscience.
It is one thing I learned during Corona: a lot of people don’t give a shit about erosion of fundamental rights or people dying horribly. But don’t you dare inconvenience them in their god-given right to party on and pretend all is well.
Yep. There’s nothing I can do to change climate change.
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Yanks find out that the UK is more than just Lodnon (colourized)
Trains and buses were also having difficulties because so many people used them instead of cars.
I understand you have a vendetta against cars but you have to think about other things
It’s rich of you to tell others to think about things.
anti_car_poison is a troll so im not really going to see their side of things
Tbf you clearly need more schooling to learn the effective use of protest throughout history, and how those rights have been fought for, and how they’re being eroded in real time whilst utter morons like you enable it through rhetoric.
Someone please educate this fucker
I’d rather be educated by my teachers than lemmy users Thank you very much
Kindly ask them about the current prognoses, like the Club of Rome one, the expected number of climate refugees in the next decades, and how well we are on track to hit any climate goal. And then about a protest form that will actually work and stop unprecedented human suffering.
You seem to think that I don’t believe or I’m not scared of climate change. I’m completely supportive of initiatives to prevent the usage of fossil fuels and pollution, however these actions have done nothing but alienate the majority of the public. If you go to the UK and ask nornal people about JSO, they’ll probably have nothing but negative opinions. This form of protest will do nothing to “hit a climate goal”. Vandalising art will just get you booed at, laughed at and thrown in the slammer as you rightfuilly should. These idiots simply create more human suffering as an excuse for stopping human suffering, and I don’t believe in such a cause for a single second of the day. When I’m stuck in traffic for 3 hours, I’m not going to think “wow these protests are going to save the planet!”, I’m going to think “these people are making me late” and that’s all I care about. Sorry.
Thankfully literally no one but you cares what you think, and the protests are intended to affect the finances of those in power so they eventually cave and make better decisions for the planet despite the cost. I’d recommend trying some self reflection before you end up with as many people that hate you as you have downvotes on this thread.
Ask them about the suffragettes then
campaigning for basic rights = punishing people for climate change
It absolutely did
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Protests only work if they’re disruptive. Otherwise, people just ignore them and move on.
Whenever people act like disruptive protest is such a terrible tactic, I have to wonder what they think would work instead. Like, do they think the letter writing campaigns that have gone exactly nowhere in 40 years are on the verge of a breakthrough?
Or would they prefer the environmental movement to compile an overly literal companion reader to Andreas Malm?
Disruptive protests especially when you don’t already have widespread support are dumb. The George Floyd protests only worked because there was widespread outcry throughout America. The people were already united on the same issue, and there was widespread agreement that immediate and radical change was necessary. Little to nobody gives enough of a shit about climate change at the moment to actually do anything about it, so protests only end up pushing away people that might be on your side.
The move should be to first garner massive and widespread support before being disruptive. It’s like attempting a socialist revolution with a tiny army. You lose!
Okay well at its peak 60% of americans supported BLM while right now 70% of americans support climate change science.
So what’s your next bullshit reason youll hedge this opinion on?
Edit: this climate protest was in Britain, where support for climate change science is higher.
I just thought that disrupting the life of ordinary people often at their most busy and pressured time was not the most responsible expression of a legitimate protest and that the very irresponsibility while drawing notice might also muddy and trivialise the intended message. But that is not the reason I am replying now, just after I made the comment I saw it was drawing downvotes and that it was an annoyance to people so I deleted it. I make this reply now as the majority of its downvotes were subsequent to its removal and I would ask someone who downvoted it without reading to explain that action, because it looks like pack mentality and straight recreational bullying.
It pack mentality and left-wing echo chamberism
Yes exactly and this reply is being similarly downvoted but without any response to what I asked. The people advocating unlawful disruptive action which leads to rule by the strongest are too timid to reply alongside their anonymous downvote. How would they fair in the world they are wishing for.
What is your answer then, besides “Just don’t inconvenience me cause im more importanter!”
The problem isn’t the disruption. The problem is the target.
There are thousands of perfectly suitable gas stations, car dealers, muffler shops, and other agents of the oil industry around. You can cause a lot more disruption targeting these agents than targeting the general public.
The oil industry exists because people demand oil. Period.
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Yes, that is a claim that the oil companies regularly make.
If nobody bought iPhones, would Apple exist?
If nobody bought iPhones, would Apple exist?
Yes? I mean, apple existed before cell phones, let alone smartphones.
Meh, at least they care about something and they’re willing to suffer the consequences to get the message out. I hope I have that much passion in my late 70s; it seems like most people don’t have any passion at all.
You talk in this way about disruption because you do not know what it can become. If you allow this sort of disruptive behaviour then by your own admittance I can come and disrupt your family to any extent I choose if I have unilaterally arrived at some higher rationale for it in my mind. Understand those laws and societal pressures that inhibit such disruption are there for a reason and if you get rid of them be sure you can stand up against the gale that will blow across the country.
by your own admittance I can come and disrupt your family to any extent I choose
I’m pretty sure protests, disruptive as they can be, are very different than personally attacking or otherwise bothering an individual and their family.
That’s some crazy “logic” you’re working with there.
She was laying in the road impeding traffic, what about the individual child alone at the school gates because their parent is unable to reach them. It is you that is using selective logic, if you allow any unlawful act you allow them all.
What about all the people that die from climate change? The food stolen from communities cause the water is polluted from fracking? The children who can’t go outside and jump in puddles cause of toxic rain. What about the loss of animal lives cause the air is too toxic? What about all the terrible things and death that follow the big polluters as they go?
All that’s allowed though, right? Cause the police say it’s ok. And since the law doesn’t stop them, all those deaths and destroyed land are fine according to you. Just as long as you can make it to school, right?
The woman in the article is from England and I am too and I can not argue this anymore because the thread is overly replied to by American liberals who are just so universally indoctrinated by corporations to work against themselves. Moving towards renewable energy is probably the noblest cause of the modern world but these protest groups are corporate guided to nullify themselves and make the public see their views as crackpot. Do you think the corporations became as powerful as they are by sitting in the fucking road. No they marshalled their powers and lobbied governments. That is how change is effected by law, to implement unlawful means is to invite chaos which makes all your effort impotent. It would be remarkably easy and inexpensive to switch over almost entirely to renewables and the oil industry knows it so it makes you look like clowns, so no one listens to you. And you swallow it completely and put on your red noses and dance around for them.
Everything you want to happen continually gets stopped by said polluters. The nice way has been tried over and over. But those don’t get talked about. But because some people decided to just sit in the road, more people are talking about it.
Sitting in the road isn’t done to get results. It’s done to get people to talk about what is happening as they won’t and haven’t otherwise.
I don’t know if it’s different in the UK, but in the US, no child is ever left alone. There’s always at least one staff member there, and they don’t leave until the last kid is picked up, no matter how long it takes.
Things must have changed since I was a kid in the US. I remember being told to start walking when my ride home fell through. They wouldn’t let me use a phone to call for another ride (pre cell phone). The teacher did ask if I knew how to get home and I did, but the only route I knew was along the high way.
That happened a few times.
Why do you allow corporations to keep polluting the world? If you allow that sort of behavior then by your own admittance I can come and build a coal plant in your living room.
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Corporations are acting within the law, admittedly that law might not be fit for purpose but it is still the law. The disruption is unlawful and a different category of thing, you can not allow some unlawful acts and frown on others.
Laws are man-made. Intentionally created to benefit the wealthy regardless of consequences. Facts about climate change have been around for decades but the laws haven’t changed. The only way to make change is to be disruptive otherwise the only other option is removing the blight from the planet which most people don’t want to participate in. I’d much rather people make the right choices than force me to protest or kill people who refuse to change in the face of facts.
The corporations and the nations allowing them to do so are not acting lawful. They are violating the Paris agreement. In many (almost all) countries, the protection of the environment is also a constitutional right. That’s violated. The European court of Human rights has also ruled that climate action is a human right.
International law, constitution, and human rights are some of the most important laws that we, as a civilization and society, have.
Might doesn’t make right, no, but what exactly do you think rule of law is when it doesn’t represent the will or the welfare of the people? The people you’re complaining about carried signs and disrupted traffic. The people who stopped them were armed and had the force of the law behind their actions.
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They are protesting climate change caused by oil use by blocking a bunch of people burning oil in their cars. Sounds like the group of people that need to hear the message no? Those protestors and you are the same, stop putting them into some sort of “unreasonable person” group.
