I don’t troll. At all. What I do is post various comments encouraging a community to not get angry as hell about a change but to make the best out of it. That’s what happened when 196 decided to port over from blahaj.zone to lemmy.world. I made a bunch of fairly long comments that were talking about how people shouldn’t be angry and just leaving toxic comments but fueling a better community, whether that be here or elsewhere. Comments went fairly well and all was fine and left up for a while but a couple of days after being posted they were removed along with everything else that I had posted to that community. The mods list the reason in the modlog for my permanent ban as “trolling”. There are many things I do, but trolling isn’t one of them. Especially when the comment sections are left in a state here showing that I wasn’t trolling.
I went through everything that I did with that community and cannot find a singular thing with the exception of a memory.
I had posted a meme a couple of weeks ago. I don’t remember exactly what it was but I remember a moderator saying on it an hour or two after posting that it should be marked as NSFW. I disagreed with this assessment. I left a comment in response saying that I disagreed that it should be marked and that I would refuse to mark it as NSFW. However, I also respect that it is their community and their rules so I settled for something different. I didn’t add an NSFW tag, I just deleted it wholesale. I didn’t want to add a tag to something that I didn’t feel was applicable and instead of having to sit with that tag on the post, I just deleted the post entirely.
So this only leaves two options from the mods of 196.
Either they banned me for posting comments that were supportive of the community itself and not directly supportive of them or they banned me for deleting a post.
In either case? The moderators of [email protected] are no better than reddit moderators who just lash out for their own ego. Blanket bans for disagreements.
And perhaps unsurprisingly and perfectly fitting of every single accusation that has been levied so far against them and their abusive practices, the last moderator to interact with me was @[email protected].
I find it fucking hysterical how the mods over there are so vehemently Anti-Trump (and should be given the userbase and content) but act no better than someone in his administration.
Edit: I found the post about it being NSFW after going through Moss’ profile but unsurprisingly Moss had to go ahead and suppress my comment there as well. It’s remarkable how much of their profile is just whining about being treated unfairly while they’re going ahead and treating people unfairly. But of course, Moss (being a redditor) had to go ahead and downvote before the removal of the post. Fragile… jesus.
As for how I feel it should be remedied, Moss should step down or at least be removed as a mod on Lemmy.world. They’ve done nothing for the community that hasn’t been insanely divisive as of late. They seem to be remarkably tonedeaf and just openly abusing their position.
Update
@[email protected] went to the community and straight up asked why I was banned. For the record I didn’t ask for this or anything and was completely blindsided when I got a notification in my inbox. But a mod over there did respond with this:
So I’m unbanned from the community because a mod could find no reason that made sense why I was banned.
Tell me how that doesn’t unilaterally prove that Moss was indeed just banning people over petty ass reasons?
This whole drama started because blahaj admins were banning 196 users they didn’t agree with.
We should be able to tell trolls to fuck off, it shouldn’t be controversial.
It seems reallly petty of you to start all of this because you wanted a post labeled NSFW and you won’t post what it was you wanted marked. It sounds like you got banned after you pushed it further.
That being said, all admins and mods are the same. They’re humans who eventually do petty shit with petty power
I wish there was a 196 that Ada or Moss couldn’t touch But there will always be bad internet janitors. It will happen in onehundredninetysix too.
Those mods are just lost. The whole debacle when they tried to move the community to LW was a mess. [email protected] for people interested.
Long live [email protected]
This whole drama started because blahaj admins were banning 196 users they didn’t agree with.
We should be able to tell trolls to fuck off, it shouldn’t be controversial.
Oh absolutely. You and I were the ones talking in that first thread about how moving over to the other community was happening. You had said something that I disagreed with the wording of, not sure if you remember. But would you have constituted that conversation we had about the community as trolling?
Moss is a pureblood redditor. They came to Lemmy hoping they could continue the same nonsense over from reddit. I dunno if they had power there originally or if they just saw it and wanted it here, but they’re fucking insane. A power-hungry little redditor.
And very much all the props to our new home. I didn’t even realize I was banned from the old one because I had just been posting to the new. And I mean, it’s not like I post a lot or anything…
stamets you are a goddamn treasure
Oh god what have I done now.
But would you have constituted that conversation we had about the community as trolling?
Definitely not. IIRC we disagreed on a few things, agreed on others, it was respectful.
Moss is a pureblood redditor. They came to Lemmy hoping they could continue the same nonsense over from reddit. I dunno if they had power there originally or if they just saw it and wanted it here, but they’re fucking insane. A power-hungry little redditor.
If that’s the case, good to see how well the community managed to move.
Definitely not. IIRC we disagreed on a few things, agreed on others, it was respectful.
That is how I took it as well. I disagreed on a couple of points, felt marred by one and we both addressed that and moved on like adults. So if those comments were what constituted the trolling ban then it wasn’t my behavior but my content. Content that was just supportive of a community doing what it felt best, whether that was staying there or moving elsewhere. Sus.
If that’s the case, good to see how well the community managed to move.
Yeah it was sorely needed. I do not interact with mods often, surprisingly. You’d think maybe I would with how much I used to post and have been starting to again lately (Gotta get on today) but honestly it is pretty rare. I talk way more with admins (of mulitple instances) than I talk with moderators. I mean I’m friends with some mods here but they’re of communities I don’t interact with. The few times I do engage with a moderator have been pretty respectful overall. A polite request and either I disagree and delete the post instead (that has happened numerous times in the past with no issue) or do what they ask because it makes total sense. The fact that my only interaction with /c/196 mods has been them acting petty and underselling their own community?
Not a good look.
I’ve been posting to [email protected] for weeks and so far haven’t bumped into a mod. Maybe in comments or something but not that I’m aware of. That’s generally how you know the community is well moderated. You never see them doing anything other than engaging with the community. Like we’ve got NegativeNull over on TenForward who is fuckin awesome for that. I mean so is everyone else but I wanted to give a shout out to my Nully boy.
Definitely not. IIRC we disagreed on a few things, agreed on others, it was respectful.
That is how I took it as well. I disagreed on a couple of points, felt marred by one and we both addressed that and moved on like adults.
In my experience, almost everyone on the internet behaves this way. There’s a reputation that internet people are toxic, angry, unreasonable, and insulting, and there need to be strict controls or the whole thing will turn into a shit show. But my observation is that even if you look at one of those big shit-show threads, it will be a tiny minority of the people that are creating all the personal insults and drama. I think the key factor is that one unhinged person can amp a bunch of other people up, and the unhinged people also tend to be very persistent in starting drama with anyone who will interact with them, and so their influence is outsized.
But check it out sometime: Look at one of those angerfest threads, and I bet it will be less than 3 people who are instigating all of the anger. Of course, there will be other people who get roped into it, but it’s usually pretty easy to identify the source, and once you see that, it’ll become clear that almost everyone when they’re talking amongst each other is perfectly reasonable, whether or not they agree about the stuff they’re talking about.
Ironic, considering 196 moving to LW was because Ada is a power tripping admin. I was interacting with Moss after getting banned on Blahaj, and they just… Went silent. Then about a week later, they moved the community. I honestly don’t think they’re an asshole, but I get the feeling the dude doesn’t know how to effectively moderate or talk to community members.
FWIW this is the exact reason I joined the mod team, and Qaz has been doing a good job with calling her out when it happens too.
She seems to have been logged out of Discord for a while now, so there’s not much we can do in terms of holding her feet to the fire. But rest assured we are trying to do something about it.
deleted by creator
She seems to have been logged out of Discord for a while now, so there’s not much we can do in terms of holding her feet to the fire. But rest assured we are trying to do something about it.
I’m going to be real, that is the least assuring thing I’ve ever heard. That mods need to hold the lead mods ‘feet to the fire’ and that there’s ‘not much they can do about it’.
/c/[email protected] is far more screwed than I thought it was.
You misread the part you quoted. There is a lot we can do about her mod actions. Even though she’s the lead mod, we can undo her actions.
What there isn’t much we can do about is holding her feet to the fire. It’s hard to do that to someone who isn’t present :p
Fair, I did misread that.
However.
It’s still not a good look that the moderation team is having to clean up the mess of the lead moderator… Moreover, this shit was left sitting until I made this post. Kolankis was left sitting until they brought theirs up. So clearly theres a lot that is slipping through the cracks with people who get hit with this and are just stuck with it indefinitely. Honestly, it’s way worse than if it was just a shitty moderator team across the board because in this case you’ve got good mods who want to do good who are being actively hampered by someone else who is undoing all of that goodwill. And a community where people can genuinely be left in a state of not sure what is going to happen to them that day and if it’ll be undone the next.
I’m sorry that you’ve gotta go through that. I wish you the best of luck with it all, though.
That’s totally valid. I’ll have to start checking the modlog every once and a while when I’m on.
We do have a group email and a matrix chat for this kind of thing, but tbf it’s not linked anywhere where an unjustly banned user would think to look… I’ll see about putting it somewhere more obvious in case this kind of thing keeps happening. (Y’all can also DM us. I think Qaz and I are the most active but Peachy is also reliable)
I don’t know a single thing about the move other than the fact that it was completely left field and offered zero proof of power tripping at the time. It was just Moss saying “Trust us”. No screenshots or detailed conversations or anything. Felt like a hollow accusation at the time. I’ve still not seen proof of Ada being a power tripper. Then again, I haven’t been looking for it.
Edit: Oh you are playing with fire today, huh?
They got mad at Ada for simply going through the mod queue when it would pile up and they didn’t enjoy her enforcing rules for the instance.
We did offer examples. With screenshots. One of which was in the pinned post, and the ban was against the person you’re replying to.
Huh. I clearly missed that. That being said, was it in that first post where Moss (or whoever it was that posted it) said that the move was being made? Because all I remember from that was just saying admin disagreements and trust us. This post I was responding to looks like it came after the post announcing the move.
I don’t remember what was in the post about the move tbh. Moss wrote that one. If she didn’t put anything concrete in there, that was definitely a blunder lol.
But tbf anyone can check Ada’s modlog.
They unbanned you! \o/
Oh I have zero interest in ever engaging there again, but that is good to know. The reaction from qaz is telling too. If another moderator can’t even find a reason then Moss must have just done it out of pure spite.
Probably worth editing the title with “Unbanned” or something just to set the record straight.
The title is:
/c/[email protected] mods (Moss) are banning people they disagree with
The title is still accurate. I should just edit it to remove the S from the ‘mods’ (which I now have). But adding unbanned doesn’t matter. The point was a specific mod is powertripping. The being unbanned just adds more proof to that.
Fair
<3 Sorry if that came off bitchy
I only know more because I was part of the ban wave on Blahaj that set off the whole thing and was apparently the only one to reach out to the mods (I thought I was just banned from 196, not the whole instance).
I guess you’re not instance banned anymore. I can see you.
I had to change instances because Yiffit shut down. This account isn’t banned.
I don’t think instance banning stops you from seeing posts from that user on other instances. (YPTB is on dbzer0)
i am positively tickled at the shining example of all the users to just pick up and move due to shitty moderation, proving the process and idealism behind the fediverse. mods only have the power users as a community allow them to.
For real. We did the exact same thing at [email protected]. Shitty moderators of Risa compounded with outright personal harassment and abuse from the admins of Startrek.website forced my hand in making TenForward. It took a week for everyone to leave Risa and come over to us. I went back to look at Startrek.website earlier today and now it’s effectively a fucking ghost town. Insanely low engagement. Christ, I made a happy birthday post to TenForward 14 hours ago that has 7 times as many upvotes as an Admin post on Startrek.website saying they have a new logo and new emojis that was posted 3 days ago.
Fediverse is wonderful.
So long as fediverse regulars get used to abandoning toxic comms and restarting them in other instances, we’ll have a very good mentality
I’ve done it once. More than enough practice to be able to do it again now if needed lol
Honestly, if we can get the UIs to handle multi-comms, or at least merged comments, then being dispersed to multiple comms wouldn’t be a big issue
One of these days… Lemmy has already come a surprisingly long way. Things will crank out more, even if we end up on some other Lemmy fork.
Indeed. I have so many ideas but I’m limited by the software. Even created threativore to handle things like custom flairs etc, but I’m struggling to find someone to onboard it onto a UI
If I had any fingers in any dev pies I’d start pushing at people for it. I can definitely keep it in mind at the very least. I dunno why or how I talk with so many Lemmy admins but might as well make something out of it lol
Too bad it was moved to lemmy.world.
I know the admins on lemmy.world and had discussions with them ahead of time. It was the better instance for me and for what I was going with for /c/TenForward. Db0 was a close second.
Fwiw, choosing LW a year ago was quite a different choice than today - and not merely bc of hindsight I mean.
I would say it was a right call for back then, with everything moving towards centralization to help with the Rexodus as people got used to the idea of federation in general and the apps and such. People went to LW, then from that base, branched out and discovered more of the wider world beyond it.
Now, if such a migration had to be done TODAY, I would absolutely recommend against it. Yet [email protected] literally helped the entire Threadiverse grow! 🪴 And now it’s grandfathered in, so it should be new communities not established ones to find new homes, e.g. [email protected] rather than [email protected], and we put new communities elsewhere e.g. [email protected] and [email protected], etc. to help spread the load.
It’s all good.:-) So long as LW admins don’t start requiring you to allow flat earth comments - which they came super close to doing but at the last moment rescinded. I guess we’ll see what the future holds.:-)
Oh I openly criticized their decision to remove comments about Jury Nullification in the wake of the Luigi shooting too. Said that I would refuse to remove any comments from TenForward if any popped up and I stand by that.
If the admins want to remove me and the community, then they’re allowed. That’s their prerogative. But Star Trek stands for something quite specific and I fully back it. I am not allowing misinformation or censorship and I’ll toss in a couple Trek quotes to back me up.
Villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves with good deeds are well camouflaged. -Picard
There are times, sir, when men of good conscience cannot blindly follow orders. -Picard
The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it’s scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based, and if you can’t find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don’t deserve to wear that uniform. -Picard
To be honest I stood with them on that one, at least as best I understood the facts though I preemptively should state that I may have been wildly off:-). A moratorium on such content for a handful of days while they research the legalities - that like CP could legit land someone in actual jail - seemed appropriate to me.
The details matter there - and again I am not fully aware of them - like what country the instance itself is located in (I don’t even recall?), and what the ramifications are of allowing such discussions, both there and in their target nations. I guess the majority part of what I’m saying is that having such discussions are one thing, if decided upon in advance, but if the admins were surprised and nervous and worried about whether the entire instance could be taken down, due to EU rules or whatever, then that panic on their part made sense to me? And sure enough, they relented and now I think discussions on exactly and precisely that topic are allowed, iirc?
Overall though, the continuation of the Threadiverse is too important to allow one single discussion here or there to threaten the entire thing. Bc if instances running Lemmy end up getting banned in the USA, for example, that only leaves the likes of corporatified Reddit, X, Facebook, and I guess Bluesky now. And those are horrible options (even as Lemmy is not ideal itself, yet it does expand upon someone’s choices and that is fucking superb:-). So anyway, I am sympathetic to their panic response in that particular situation (far less so to the subsequent whole deal with the flat earth points, and at least the jury nullification issue in isolation I felt like I understood that). Modding is a hard job (as I know that you know!:-) and I can only imagine how the responsibilities differ for an admin, with their irl actual name exposed to the legal authorities and vulnerable in ways that none of us here are, as mere users or even mods, unless we choose it - but for them, it’s not a choice, they must expose that in order to comply with the legalities.
Db0 was a close second.
That would have been cool
The deciding factor was the number of admins. I was getting bombarded with harassment from the admins of Startrek.website from the second I left the website. When I set up the first StarTrekMemes shitty one, a precusor to TenForward, it was done out of haste. After that, I started dealing with what ValueSubtracted was throwing at me harassment wise. I was in conversation at that point with a couple of admins from Lemmy.world who were getting borderline harassed by ValueSubtracted themselves. Lemmy.world had more admins to be able to ‘spread that across’. I didn’t want to overload @[email protected] with a mountain of hostile nonsense from a bunch of children. I knew VS was going to do his petty shit no matter what unless I just deleted my account entirely. I refused to let that pissbaby win but I wanted to do it in a way that caused the least amount of damage possible.
That’s… messed up. How is that instance still online after this?
Oh it was insanely messed up. When TenForward was finally up and running and things going smoothly, they then started going after the admins of my fucking mastodon account. Was at that point the harassment got to such an insane extent that I finally made it public. They went into a fucking panic. I made the post here. Both admins from StarTrek.website had to come over and try to lie using secondary accounts to try and cover their tracks but were repeatedly called out and pointed out to be alts. ValueSubtracted and Corgana then both started abusing the report function to report anyone who even talked about the situation as well as my post itself. Admins had to ask me what was going on because they started saying I was trying to cause an “inter-instance war”.
It is perhaps a surprise to absolutely no one that Corgana (otherwise known as SysAdmin) and ValueSubtracted, the two admins of Startrek.website, are also the two who ran /r/StarTrek into the fucking ground and forced the opening of several other Star Trek subreddits to escape them.
If you’re at all curious about the shit that happened, the post is here and goes into a lot of detail. I use as many screenshots as humanly possible because I didn’t want them, in any way, being able to claim that I was lying. Funnily enough? They never did. They just made every other complaint under the sun.
As for how it is online? They banned me and even banned people who were talking about what happened to me. They openly censored shit on their instance to make sure no one who was only on ST.W knew what they did. At this point they’re just openly taking peoples money from Patreon and more than likely feeding off of the extra while putting the bare minimum into upkeep. They constantly had development problems when I was on there. I was even asking admins of lemmy.world questions to help admins of Startrek.website.
The whole instance is a wash.
I really loved it too. Quite nice to see when members own a community nowadays
i straight up blocked moss. they need someone to sit down and talk to them IRL about how to be a human before i’m willing to interact with them online
I’m not a religious person by any means but I was always taught “The Golden Rule” as a kid. Honestly I use that a lot in my life. I don’t like the biblical phrasing but treat people how you want to be treated. It’s as simple as that. I don’t know if Moss learned that. I’m not gonna hate on them more than I already have in calling them a redditor (one of the biggest insults I can think of) but I just don’t understand it.
exactly. i don’t think they’re a bad person to the core, i think they just lack perspective and connection. they won’t find that on an internet forum, only the illusion of it. if i try to explain it here i’m only really contributing to their continued entrenchment in this position.
also. my favorite version of the golden rule is that you should conduct yourself like someone you’d want to be friends with.
my second favorite is immanual kant’s “I ought never to act except in such a way that I could also will that my maxim should become a universal law.”
Oh that ‘be who you wanna be friends with’ one is pretty good. I like that! Treat how you want to be treated was literally painted on the hallway walls of my elementary school so it just got burned in. This one is way better.
it’s like. the core of ethical philosophy is figuring out the best phrasing for it. it’s an incredibly valuable life lesson, hence it being spoken in different framings from different philosophers throughout history. i think our society’s great failing is that we stop putting it everywhere when children leave elementary school. it should be all over middle schools, high schools, places of work, religious centers, community centers, sports stadiums, you name it. we build society. us. we decide what it should be. so why do the propaganda machines of the wealthy allow ourselves in highschool to shift our view of what it means to be human from kind philosopher to camo clad warrior?
my view is it’s because we’re all so entrenched in this hegemony that it doesn’t even occur to us that the lessons of kindergarten are the most important lessons of all, and we should be expanding on those lessons rather than telling kids once they turn 7 that they’ve mastered that and it’s time to spend the rest of their lives thinking only of STEM without any regard to the arts
We could also start by paying elementary school teachers an actual living wage (in the Western world). Except, you know, we won’t do that in the USA, and ironically most teachers in that position that I’ve ever met have been right-wing conservatives that are actively cheering for Trump to shut down all the federal funding. I think they seem to believe (at least this is what they say) that the fuding will somehow magically spring up from the ground in the form of the local areas stepping forward to now “properly” fund education. They sadly are about to undergo a very rude awakening process when they find out that failing to plan ahead is the same as planning to fail:-(.
oof. my elementary school teachers were who taught me the things that created the anarchist i am today. i guess i was lucky
I wish we could all be thus:-). But maybe some lessons it’s better to learn the hard way, in any case.
PTB for sure.
Honestly I feel like Moss is a bit of a cheat when it comes to that. It’s like a game of house-rigged slots. 9 times out of 10 it’s gonna be PTB.
Didn’t know that mod before the /196 brouhaha tbh. They’re certainly not beating the allegations…
Due to my level of posting shit, I tend to get hints of rumors occasionally. I kept fuckin hearing the name Moss on 196 and had no idea who it was until this debacle. Apparently they were well known for being… well I was trying to think of a more diplomatic term than a power-hungry narcissist but I’m completely drawing a blank.
They practically called themselves landed gentry during that whole fiasco, haha:-).
I’d say they’re in for a rude awakening but given the posting history to that community and Moss’ posting history? Sounds like they’re up.
The data does not lie. There were 4 posts to [email protected] 6 days ago, but nothing since.
Meanwhile there are 32 posts from just the past single day over on [email protected] (again, in comparison to ZERO for the other, and similar for the past WEEK).
It’s such a shame that the Lemmy devs heavily promote mods over communities - e.g. reporting “subscribed” stats (as the ONLY stat shown when you do a search in the Community page), even if nobody has posted to a community for multiple years. That pro-authoritarianism bias really shows through in every single aspect of Lemmy. Even so, [email protected] is such a fantastic success story of the power of the people to get what they want, regardless!:-)
You’re welcome to open an issue or a pull request for adding other community metrics.
a PTB? :D
Okay you got me there lmao
@[email protected], this looks like a bad call on the face of it. Have anything to add?
I really am curious. Especially on that removed comment of the NSFW thing. The most I can think of me doing in that comment was saying that I disagree with the NSFW idea, think it’s a bit dumb and that maybe people had a point with moving community. If that constitutes a permanent ban for trolling and a first infraction? Yike.
And that’s the worst case scenario I can think of what I said. Being a dick? Sure. But trolling? And a permanent ban with no response or anything? Even at the worst thing I can think of me doing their reaction is still insanely heavyhanded and petty lol
Just found out I was still subbed to the previous 196 community and unsubbed. I thought I had unsubbed back when the move happened but must’ve missed unsubbing at that time.
Glad to be a reminder lol
Wait, you expected the modlog to show actual reasons? As it is it’s basically a joke now that you can’t even contest. It is a literal power trip, but at least does tell you when and where you have been banned from, so at least it has that compromise.
Ban Stamets?!? That’s crazy.
Oh it happens. Not super often but it happens. Last time it did was the Startrek.website admins banning me from the instance entirely. Seriously. You can’t see any of my posts if you’re on that website. Why? Because I set up Tenforward and they were so threatened by the success of the community that they unilaterally banned me to try and suppress competition.
Didn’t work because their site is effectively dead and TenForward is thriving anyway.
I wonder what the post was? Either way this seems quite bad.
Oh I can show you that.
I can see why people might want this be marked as NSFW. Personally, I disagreed because it is a cartoon penis and a dipshit one at that.
So in respect of opinions different than my own, I’m not going to embed it. Personally I don’t think it rises to NSFW but I got a couple of comments and that mod post. Rather than do something I didn’t agree with, I just deleted the post instead. That way people weren’t seeing stuff that they felt was mistagged and I didn’t have to tag something with a tag I didn’t think was appropriate. Everyone wins.
Click the link below to see the image.
Tag that picture as NSFW.
World mods are all like that. I blocked the entire instance awhile back.
Some pretty insane stereotype and grouping there. More likely that the problem is you.
Decided to look at your modlog. What do you know. Every single one of those comments violates a blatant rule and is pretty disgusting in some form or another.
My friend, if you’re smelling shit everywhere on Lemmy.world it isn’t because of the site. Check your shoes.
Funny how it was just me, not the people attacking me in the same exact manner. 🤡
Looking at your comments, you deserved it.
If anyone wants to go take a look at those comments, they actually can. All removed comments are visible in the modlog when removed individually. I read everything you had to say. You’re not a good person, you are the problem, the mods here were just shutting you down.
So yeah, I’m gonna go with the modlog and removed comments that prove you’re a horrible person over the mods being the problem. But thanks for your input.
