If you’re Anti-NATO then you’re Pro-War
If you’re Anti-NATO then you’re Pro-War
This absolutely make no sense. NATO is a pro-war organization that for a century fueled wars and violence to preserve its member wealth and authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
“According to several Western European researchers, the operation involved the use of assassination, psychological warfare, and false flag operations to delegitimize left-wing parties in Western European countries, and even went so far as to support anti-communist militias and right-wing terrorism as they tortured communists and assassinated them”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
People like to pretend the government its their friend and that the army job is to defend innocent people but look around, poor people live in misery and the only thing being protected is corrupted politician’s ass and their friends mega corporations.
In attempting to describing what NATO is, maybe try not to go all the way back to the cold war. NATO is a defensive alliance and a weaker NATO makes war more likely.
The organization didn’t change. The italian government that was shaped back than still exist today as the current ruling party is hereditary of the figures involved in the organization i linked.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/P2
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licio_Gelli
Also don’t forget that between the cold war and now there have been dozens of wars and conflicts
Got anything in the past, say 20 years, that would validate you description? In terms of NATO’s actions, rather than vague hereditary claims?
Lmao what a dumbass
NATO is the worlds largest mutual defence pact. The entire reason Russia was able to invade Ukraine was because Ukraine had never joined NATO.
Lmao what a dumbass
You sound like a bully, just like NATO
Russian troll alert.
You sound to be trolling more
YDI
YDI for being a useful idiot.
explain how this is idiotic
“useful idiot” is the term the Soviets had for people like you.
Defending forced conscription and praising authoritarian leaders is being a useful idiot for the russia government because that’s what they want to hear.
ok
YDI. The first sentence of every comment is literal Russian propaganda. Clutching your pearls at forced conscription during an ongoing invasion speaks to a level of privilege I rarely see, even online. Zelenski is touring “the royal courts,” because he’s prostrating himself to beg for money, weapons and aid for his country. Wars aren’t free, especially when you’re up against a global power.
You’re playing loose with the facts, and nobody is buying it.
Or would you rather they roll over and go, “Sorry, we’re all outta gas. Russia just has more bodies to throw at us”? Become part of Russia? Good thing you weren’t in charge of the country, or you would have run up the white flag years ago.
YDI. The first sentence of every comment is literal Russian propaganda.
Russia is a country plagued with corrupted authorities and where the draft is mandatory, calling these things out goes against russia government interests too. Remember also that russia started this war, they don’t want peace, they are fine with war or they would pull back.
Clutching your pearls at forced conscription during an ongoing invasion speaks to a level of privilege I rarely see, even online
Human rights shouldn’t be abolish under any circumstance, there’s no scenario under which slavery is tolerated. A government should never draft people by force and neither should arrest them if they want to leave the country.
Zelenski is touring “the royal courts,” because he’s prostrating himself to beg for money, weapons and aid for his country. Wars aren’t free, especially when you’re up against a global power.
Some of the countries he visit literally have royal palaces like Abu Dhabi. He’s not prostrating, he’s been invited by world leaders and having discussion with them to get more founds to his country and his government.
Human rights shouldn’t be abolish under any circumstance, there’s no scenario under which slavery is tolerated. A government should never draft people by force and neither should arrest them if they want to leave the country.
Your intentions are good… but very naive. Majority of people do not want to go to the front lines and die or watch their friends die. So most are going to flee if they have the opportunity, and thus the country will fall right into the hands of an agessor who cares nothing about these ‘human rights’. It is indeed unfortunate the circumstances has forced the Ukrainian government to rely on conscription to maintain its sovereignity. What exactly would you do about such a predicament?
So most are going to flee if they have the opportunity,
You are talking like a puppeter. If people want to leave a country so be it. Who are you to control them? Also what do you think they are going to achieve drafting by force people that don’t want to fight? They are not going to fight either way, they are losing resources hunting them as a display of power.
Let’s say i want to leave ukraine to strike russia at the top of the pyramid: in dubai where russian oligarchs are chilling in their yachts. Ukraine government will say no, you must do what we say and fight in the army. Why do you think it works this way? A government and its people are two different things, people exist and can defend themself beyond governments and rulers.
an agessor who cares nothing about these ‘human rights’
If both the aggressor and the defender stop caring about human rights you are not fighting for justice anymore
Naive is to believe that every person, millions of them, should agree and conform to your authority.
Russia is a country plagued with corrupted authorities and where the draft is mandatory, calling these things out goes against russia government interests too.
Not when your justification is their propaganda. You’re just spreading their disinformation in ignorance, rather than malice. The effect is the same, regardless.
Human rights shouldn’t be abolish under any circumstance, there’s no scenario under which slavery is tolerated.
Human rights are not objective facts of reality. They’re a social contrivance. Furthermore, conscription is not slavery, and virtually every country with a military has a draft available. I’m thankful that my country, the US, has not needed to use it in decades, but it is still there, and there are real punishments for trying to dodge it (unless you’re rich).
Some of the countries he visit literally have royal palaces like Abu Dhabi.
So what? He doesn’t get to choose the venues; that’s just where they are. You think he can effectively beg for money over Zoom while in a bunker?
War isn’t fair, and drafts supercede some of people’s rights. You can feel whatever you’re going to feel about it, but the reality is that we wouldn’t need drafts if there weren’t any authoritarians with delusions of grandeur.
But there are, and so even well-militarized countries with lots of volunteers still have drafts for times of emergency.
You’re just spreading their disinformation
Can you point out the disinformation? Mostly of what i’m saying is that the ukranian government is drafting people by force and not allowing men 18-60 to leave the country with the result that people trying to cross the border are getting arrested and some died trying. As a result i’m pointing out ukrainian government ceo to be an authoritarian ruler rather than a hero that should deserve monuments.
and virtually every country with a military has a draft available.
Most countries are police states rooted in violence. US and any other should have no draft, it is not normal or good just because it’s there.
So what? He doesn’t get to choose the venues; that’s just where they are.
I’m just highlighting that meeting the world most powerful rulers in their headquarters is not the same as rooting in a trench.
but the reality is that we wouldn’t need drafts if there weren’t any authoritarians with delusions of grandeur.
Indeed if it wasn’t for deluded maniacs with power ambitions we wouldn’t have the draft, that’s why i’m calling them out.
Can you point out the disinformation?
I did. Read my first comment. I specified where the disinformation is, and you would be wise to heed that these are almost verbatim Russian propaganda talking points they use to justify why they should just be allowed to take Ukraine.
Whether you think it’s fair for the draft to exist is irrelevant when you’re staring down the barrel of an invading country. They’re coming, and the draft exists to ensure the country does as well. I am sorry for them that people are trying to escape the draft, but again: war is not fair.
If the draft didn’t exist, the end result would be might makes right. The countries who didn’t have enough volunteers would lose, and the country with the bigger stick would always be the victor. Human lives would be spared, sure, but at what cost? Living as a conquered people is not defacto better just because you’re alive. One need only look at history to see that fact.
I’m just highlighting that meeting the world most powerful rulers in their headquarters is not the same as rooting in a trench.
Nobody said it was. But that doesn’t mean he’s never been in the trenches or that what he’s doing isn’t still vital. War isn’t fair.
Indeed if it wasn’t for deluded maniacs with power ambitions we wouldn’t have the draft, that’s why i’m calling them out.
Since you said “them,” I’m going to assume you’re including Zelenski. The draft isn’t a grab for power. It’s not some method of controlling the population. It’s a last resort method of survival, and last resorts of any kind usually come with heavy costs, or else they would be first resorts.
So you’re not “calling anyone out” or saying anything particularly novel or relevant to human rights when “rights” are a privilege you get from a society that is not at war. War is not fair.
I did. Read my first comment.
I already replied to your first comment and the others. I’m not posting any disinformation, just because you don’t like it or the russian are saying it doesn’t imply that what i’m saying is false or wrong.
and the draft exists to ensure the country does as well.
A country does not exist because of forced conscription. People can defend themself even without authoritarian leaders drafting them by force. Your claim is that ukraine still exist only because they drafted people against their will, you are basically implying ukraine people are cowards and should be forced to fight.
If the draft didn’t exist, the end result would be might makes right. The countries who didn’t have enough volunteers would lose, and the country with the bigger stick would always be the victor. Human lives would be spared, sure, but at what cost? Living as a conquered people is not defacto better just because you’re alive. One need only look at history to see that fact.
You talk like a villain, wars are fought by real people who die in the most miserable way. I encourage you to watch the combat footage out of this war to look at what is happening.
I did. Read my first comment.
I already replied to your first comment and the others. I’m not posting any disinformation, just because you don’t like it or the russian are saying it doesn’t imply that what i’m saying is false or wrong.
It’s not my fault you can’t read and don’t get it. Propaganda always has a kernel of truth—that’s what makes it effective. That doesn’t mean it’s a complete truth. It’s not my job to educate you, and it should bother you that you’re spreading propaganda, not truth. The fact that it doesn’t bother you says a lot about your intentions.
…you are basically implying ukraine people are cowards and should be forced to fight.
LMAO. Sure, Jan. That’s definitely what I was implying and not that the prospect of death scares people into running away. That you construed cowardice when I see humanity says a lot about you.
You talk like a villain, wars are fought by real people who die in the most miserable way.
Yeah, I’m the bad guy here. Lol. How many times did I say that “war isn’t fair,” again?
You’re not convincing anyone. I and many others have already pointed out why YDI, why your comments were removed, why what you said is propaganda, and refuted your arguments ad nauseum. If that’s not enough to persuade you that you’re in the wrong, then you have already made the choice not to learn from it, and I can only conclude that you’re spreading disinformation in earnest.
you’re spreading propaganda, not truth.
If you believe highlighting human right violations such as drafting people by force and not allowing everyone to leave a country is spreading propaganda than you are a victim of the propaganda yourself. Are you aware that there’s propaganda in every country and not just in russia?
That’s definitely what I was implying and not that the prospect of death scares people into running away
“coward: a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.”
You are just remarking your implication that ukraine people are cowards.
I don’t like conscription either, but you’re essentially saying the allied leaders are just as evil as nazis for conscription so that they can have an army to fight the nazis…
Do you know your history? The nazi fought the biggest war with stalin. Were stalin and his regime good overall because they fought and defeated the nazi?
Drafting people by force is wrong, if you do it you are lowering yourself to the nazi, russia or any other scum.
But there is still different levels of evil.
If: Conscription = Immoral
Okay, almost every country does conscription. By that definision, almost every country is evil.
But: Is Ukraine’s conscription to stop a foreign invasion the same evil as russia’s conscription in order to invade and continuingly occupy Ukraine? The invasion that killed a lot of civillians, with the intent to take over Ukraine and expand russian territory by any means necessary. Are they really the same evil?
Sure they are both using tactics that are wrong, but the motive behind Ukraine is self-defence, the motive behind russia is territorial expansion.
Let look at this a different way:
Some people would argue that: Violence = Wrong no matter what
Okay, so is the violence used to kill a dictator just as evil as the violence used by dictator to kill civillians who disagree with him?
By that definision, almost every country is evil.
You may not like to hear it but that’s how it goes. Name a single country in the world that isn’t rooted in violence or that isn’t governed by corrupted politicians.
But: Is Ukraine’s conscription to stop a foreign invasion the same evil as russia’s conscription in order to invade and continuingly occupy Ukraine? The invasion that killed a lot of civillians, with the intent to take over Ukraine and expand russian territory by any means necessary. Are they really the same evil?
You are making an argument that there’s some slavery better than other, ok you slaver…
Consciption isn’t the same as slavery.
Slavery has no benefits to society besides enriching the slave owners.
Conscription can benefit society by providing enough soldiers to defend a country.
There are also other forms of state coersion that are no where the same as slavery.
In many countries, Jury Duty is mandatory, and without a legitimate excuse, you cannot avoid going, or you risk going to jail. Is Jury Duty slavery?
In some countries, you are required to show up to vote, you don’t have to vote for anyone, you can just submit a blank ballot, but failure to do so can result in fines. Is mandatory voting slavery?
Taxes are mandatory, in order to fund stuff that benefits society, is taxation theft?
Let me guess, you’re the type of person to not return a shopping cart because it’s “slavery”. You won’t wear a mask because it’s "tyranny. 🙄
Consciption isn’t the same as slavery.
Sorry but this is very misguided. Conscription means sending people directly in the line of fire under threat of death. In the WWs, conscripts were regularly executed for resisting or going MIA. Conscription is very very very bad.
Forced conscription is a form of slavery, especially when enforced with violence. I’m using slavery as an example to make you understand that there’s no condition under which slavery can be good and the same principle applies to forced conscription. Slaves can be used to fight for a country and for “society” but slavery is and will always be wrong.
In some countries, you are required to show up to vote, you don’t have to vote for anyone, you can just submit a blank ballot, but failure to do so can result in fines. Is mandatory voting slavery?
Imagine being arrested for not submitting a ballot, is this the society you want to live in?
Taxes are mandatory, in order to fund stuff that benefits society, is taxation theft?
Paying taxes in russia that goes into fueling the ukraine invasion is more than simply theft, isn’t it? If you were russian would you happily pay taxes and consider it rightful?
Let me guess, you’re the type of person to not return a shopping cart because it’s “slavery”. You won’t wear a mask because it’s "tyranny.
Are you really comparing returning a shopping cart with being conscripted into a war that is estimated to have made a million casualties already?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine
“According to an estimate by Ukrainian commanders, 50% to 70% of Ukrainian conscripts are killed or wounded on their first day in combat.”
Many people commenting here have legitimate points, including op and the people who are angry at him.
My two cents is that if Ukraine dropped conscription and lifted the ban against travel, the army would shrink significantly.
Not because the majority don’t support resisting, most do not want to be annexed by that corrupt Russian mess. But because the conditions on the front are very well known and many think/want others should do the fighting.
Many people want to leave Ukraine, but can’t or some try risky ways out. Majority support Zalenski, but he and his party have more than some critics about more than a few issues. And corruption is still a huge thing despite a remarkable cleanup that is still ongoing.
But without conscription and the authoritarianism, I have no clue how different it would make things. Certainly the front lines, if any existed then, would be different. Ukraine might be gone
YDI, I live in Ukraine.
You are a tankie! And we both know you are lying about your alleged concern for human rights.
Let’s hope one day you will be on the recieving end of russian genocidal imperialism.
The story of Donbas Cowboy, Russell Bentley also comes to mind for some reason:
Bentley’s wife, Lyudmila, then claimed that Russian soldiers from a tank battalion abducted him.
According to the Investigative Committee, Vansyatsky, Agaltsev, and Iordanov tortured Bentley on April 8, and he died shortly afterward.
Vansyatsky and Agaltsev are suspected of blowing up a car with Bentley’s body in it and ordering Bazhin to get rid of what was left of his remains.
"A tankie is anyone that defends authoritarian state-capitalist dictators and the atrocities they’ve committed and continue to commit. "
I’m not defending any authoritarian state or ruler. I’m pointing out the wrongdoings perpetrated by one.
And we both know you are lying about your alleged concern for human rights.
I’m not lying perhaps you are. There are credible source pointing out human rights are being violated starting with the rule that no male between 18-60 can leave the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization_in_Ukraine#2024
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANxo0gBM6GM
Let’s hope one day you will be on the recieving end of russian genocidal imperialism.
I hope that one day you and your people will be free from the russian empire and from your current authoritarian government.
You are a tankie! Don’t play dumb with me, look at the age of my account, I’ve been using Lemmy for a while.
You think you are the first tankie to come up with the “I just care about human rights” shpeel.
Everything about your style and tone points to malicious behaviour.
It’s transparent that you’re using mandatory conscription (which is legal in a state of emergency) as a hook to promote key russian propaganda narratives.
You’re not fooling anyone!
I’m bringing up my argument and discussing it with people. Your behaviour of calling me out looks more scummy honestly
hook to promote key russian propaganda narratives.
It’s actually defending the draft that is a key russian propaganda narrative because this invasion was made possible because russia has an army of conscripts.
The Ukraine war lovers on .world are as bad as the zionists on blahaj.
You should be aware that despite his claims, Skiluros is not from Ukraine, and more precisely, not from the region he claims to be from. Most likely, he has never been there, as he fails to recognize some basic local jokes (check our conversation in this thread). He’s just a NAFO troll who pretends to be Ukrainian so that some unaware people will take his crap more seriously.
Thanks for the warning. I don’t think picking a fight with him is much useful, don’t attack him personally for lying bur rather explain to him why lying is wrong.
YDI
The comments that got removed are very well known points used by Russian propaganda farms
You may or may not know that. You may or may not be doing that intentionally. But you know the whole “if it quacks like a duck…” bit? You’re quacking like a propaganda farm.
Now, I’m not saying that holding those opinions, if they are actually your opinions, isn’t your right. It is, fully, your right to believe however you want. Doesn’t matter if I like it, if agree with it, or even if I would punch you in the snout for a given opinion (and I wouldn’t for these), it is your right to hold those opinions.
But it is a mod’s responsibility to filter out bad actors like propaganda farms. The only effective way to do that is to observe what those farms are saying, and remove anything that spreads the messaging. Sometimes, actual people will get caught up in that. It’s unavoidable, and regrettable even (since there’s no chance to possibly talk the person into a less unrealistic stance, which is possible for the folks that swallow propaganda like this). But it is necessary.
Remember, that applies to anything that’s being pushed by propaganda farms. IDGAF of it was Ukrainian farm talking points, EU talking points, or wherever, it would still need to be filtered out because this isn’t their fucking platform. Lemmy, even more than Reddit, is a platform of individual people, not government actors. It has to be rigidly protected or it will go the way reddit is going.
Arguing against authoritarian politicians and against forced conscription doesn’t sound much like well known points used by russia propaganda and even if they are there they don’t magically become wrong points only because russia is using them.
What you are saying is that whatever topic russia propaganda picks up should be censored, what kind of logic is this? I’m not repeating some random shit i’m advocating for human rights and calling out ukrainian government for drafting people by force and arresting these who try to flee the country.
rigidly protected or it will go the way reddit is going.
Reddit is rigidly protected, censorship has been a big reddit issue.
Like I said, this may be an opinion that is yours and only yours. That’s a different thing than whether or not a mod action was power tripping or not.
I don’t go very far into debating the points of posts and comments that are the source of posts here, so be aware that I’m not likely to follow up with this if that’s where you’re wanting to take it. That’s not the purpose of community, and it makes things messy for mods and users.
But, the points you raised aren’t wrong because they’re also used by Russia. They have flaws on their own merits. Which is not germaine to a PTB issue, but unless you’re trying to say that all drafts everywhere are wrong, I call shenanigans.
As far as forcing conscripts, or arresting people leaving the country, that’s another thing where this isn’t the place for that debate. The evidence of it being done in the way you claim is dubious though, so it still doesn’t matter as far as PTB is concerned
In other words, you’re pointing at Ukraine and ignoring the rest of the world. You’re taking a side. So you are furthering propaganda efforts and misinformation by doing that, which still males it YDI.
Did you put any sources or evidence into the comments that got removed? If so, they don’t show in the screen shots, so you’d have to put them up somewhere else for me to engage further on that side of things.
I’m fine with not discussing the argument here because this sub has another goal but don’t keep making points about it yourself or i’m gonna have to reply.
In other words, you’re pointing at Ukraine and ignoring the rest of the world. You’re taking a side.
The thread was about Ukraine and people were praising its authoritarian leader calling him an hero. I pointed out and argue that he’s no hero because he’s an authoritarian leader drafting people by force. When i say that martial law is dictatorship and that drafting people by force is a violation of human rights that goes for everyone everywhere, if the thread was about Congo i would have talk about Congo and not ukraine.
Did you put any sources or evidence into the comments that got removed? If so, they don’t show in the screen shots, so you’d have to put them up somewhere else for me to engage further on that side of things.
Yes, you can thank the .world mods for removing it thus creating even more confusion. That’s some good argument against censorship, removing the comments didn’t do any justice.
YDI.
How so?
You’re posts weren’t removed because you’re against forced conscription.
They were removed because you spread Russian propaganda and misnformation. Just like the mod said.
Russia propaganda persuade people that the draft is good and to join the army. Arguing against forced conscription and human rights violations does not benefit authoritarian dictatorships like russia or any other. You are wrongly labeling this as propaganda simply because i’m pointing out the finger at the side you like.
Conscription during a regime of emergency due to a foreign invasion is legal as per Ukrainian law.
Elections are lawfully suspended while an invasion is on. Because we need to protect our people and withstand an onslaught from the genocidal russians.
You know this and yet you keep pretending to be concerned about human rights.
You don’t even speak Ukrainian and you’ve never lived here. Your goal is to promote russian genocidal imperialism.
Conscription during a regime of emergency due to a foreign invasion is legal as per Ukrainian law.
It is also legal in russia and china that doesn’t mean that it is good or not a violation of human rights.
You know this and yet you keep pretending to be concerned about human rights.
Drafting people by force and not allowing them to flee the country beating them up and arresting them if they try to is a violation of human rights. You know this too.
You don’t live in Ukraine, you don’t speak Ukrainian, you don’t vote in Ukrainian elections, you don’t pay taxes in Ukraine.
We both know your real goal is promotion of russian propaganda narratives.
We both know your real goal is promotion of russian propaganda narratives.
What narrative i’m promoting? Arguing against forced conscription and against authoritarian governments does not benefit any russian narrative it actually goes against it! You don’t need to live in russia to call out its government and authoritarian laws.
It’s not about your stance on conscription. It’s about calling Zelensky and authoritarian ruler, spreading lies about government kidnappings, etc.
Go to .ml or lemmygard for that shit.
spreading lies about government kidnappings, etc.
That’s not a lie, it’s happening and that’s why i’m calling out zelenskyy as an authoritarian ruler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization_in_Ukraine#2024
“In 2023, harsher methods of mobilization began to be used, such as road blocks, business raids, and pulling people from the streets. In the latter half of 2023, videos surfaced online showing Ukrainian men violently dragged into vans and driven to the military recruiting centers”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis
“Ukraine’s border service spokesman Andriy Demchenko stated that at least 30 people had died while trying to cross the Ukrainian border to escape mobilization.”
Go to .ml or lemmygard for that shit.
This is not “shit” and you should pay attention to it
yes, mobilization happens during a war and no one likes it.
They may not like it but people at the government are ok with it. Back in the day some probably didn’t like slavery but thought it as necessary, which is equally bad…
You’re misrepresenting what happened here just a little bit
These are the comments i made and that got removed there’s not much else
Lol. Why do you focus on the third sentence in or something and somehow assume the 2 sentences before, containing 100% propaganda and misinformation, wouldn’t count towards propaganda and misinformation, but somehow it’s this one thing? Just tell me how an democratically elected president, who is still backed by like a vast majority of the citizens is somehow an authoritarian ruler?
And why do you keep having the same problem every 4 weeks?
Lol. Why do you focus on the third sentence in or something and somehow assume the 2 sentences before, containing 100% propaganda and misinformation, wouldn’t count towards propaganda and misinformation, but somehow it’s this one thing?
I’m not sure what you are asking here
Just tell me how an democratically elected president, who is still backed by like a vast majority of the citizens is somehow an authoritarian ruler?
Democracies are filled with elected politicians power tripping, see global security law in france, germany government beating and arresting environmental activists or the orange man in USA deporting immigrants. Ukraine is under martial law which is a suspension of democracy and a form of dictatorship. Drafting people by force and arresting them if they try to leave the country is an authoritarian practice and a violation of people rights.
who is still backed by like a vast majority of the citizens is somehow an authoritarian ruler?
I wonder if you check any poll before making this statement or you just assumed it to be the case
And why do you keep having the same problem every 4 weeks?
Not sure what you are asking here either
You sound to me like someone who gets their news straight out of some propaganda machine. And you just regurgitate that and spew it out… Since you want me to do my research. Did you do your’s? Have you been to Ukraine recently? Did you check the poll? Because it’s certainly out there and I’d love to hear about the intricate details on how they did it wrong. And have you been part of a protest in Germany? Because last time I did was 2 days ago. And it didn’t quite match your description. And I think nobody questions whether Ukraine is under martial law. There is a war waging in their country and people are literally dying. So you don’t really need to repeat that every two sentences. Everyone is already aware of that.
You sound to me like someone who gets their news straight out of some propaganda machine.
I was commenting on a post at [email protected]
Did you check the poll?
I’m not the one claiming zeleskyy is or isn’t popular among ukrainians. All i know is that some people died trying to cross the border which point out that not everybody is ok with his government.
And have you been part of a protest in Germany? Because last time I did was 2 days ago. And it didn’t quite match your description.
I’m gonna assume what you were protesting was not the genocide in gaza or the climate crisis.
But that would still be a democracy, wouldn’t it? I mean that’s just concerned with how a government works and how it’s backed and in relationship with the people.
And yes, I’ve not actively participated in those kinds of protests for a while… But I went past some minor ones and had a brief look at them. Plus I know some people who do such things. So I have relatively direct access to information.
And yes, people might be agitated. But I’m not sure if I get your point. Are you interested in Germany’s society and democracy? And the fine nuances of our democratic processes and the police force and how good they are at their job? I mean there definitely are issues, we’re not perfect. And there are both structural issues and people who are unfit for the job. But does that make Scholz a dictator? I’d say no.
So… What’s the last Israel or climate crisis protest in Germany you’ve been participated?
If scholz were to pass martial law they would turn into a ruler that more resembles a dictator.
Anyway the “democracies” we live in have more in common with a dictatorship than the perfect ideal of democracy one has in mind. Go protest a topic your government doesn’t like (gaza genocide for germany) and you will be treated close to how anti-war protesters get treated in russia.
So, why are you right on that? Did you try protesting gaza genocide? Did you see what happened?
I remember quite well some videos being posted here on lemmy like the police chasing the kid with the palestine flag.
OP is at best is a useful idiot…
But I still don’t agree with censorship. Correct their bullshit and move on. These parasites hoping to get new recruits but that only works if person is not provided all information on the topic. So just drop proper counter arguments and let people make up their own minds.
Censorship breeds extermism and these idiots rely on disgruntled people as a source for new recruits.
Deny the parasite that source with transparent online discussion.
OP is at best is a useful idiot…
Explain how i’m an idiot
You bring up non sequiturs, namely here conscription…
It is a defensive war, conscription is the standard process once volunteers are gone. Ukraine is third year into the war.
Do you cry when Russia sent conscripts in for invasion?
Or sending ethnic minorities to fight Russia’s invasion?
Asking for a friend
You bring up non sequiturs, namely here conscription…
Forced conscription is a violation of human rights and pointing it out is something everyone should do, especially when people are glorifying and praising as hero the authoritarian rulers behind it.
It is a defensive war, conscription is the standard process once volunteers are gone. Ukraine is third year into the war.
Drafting people by force is the standard process of authoritarian states like russia. If you were russian and china invades the country would you be fine with the government drafting you by force and arresting you if you try to flee the border?
Do you cry when Russia sent conscripts in for invasion?
Draft is slavery regardless of who is doing it.
sure thing buddy…
This is PTB, sure, but you’re not new to Lemmy and you should already know that the average .world user has no problem with Ukrainians being used as proxy cannon fodder, so there’s a strong BPR vibe here too. You’re literally diving into the cesspool of Western narratives and then being shocked that it stinks.
Proxy cannon fodder? Get fucked you piece of shit.
This is a gencodial russian invasion, not a proxy war.
You don’t speak russian or Ukrainian, you’ve never lived in russia or Ukraine. This is just an online roleplay session for you.
Чому не державною, лайно?
I bet that at best you are a troll posing as a Ukrainian, and at worst one of those shithead clowns who managed to cross the border and are now gathering in the centres of Western capitals, protesting against ending war through negotiations so that other Ukrainians would continue to die while they are chilling in Berlin, Paris or Warsaw. Or worse, you’re one of those guys who wears a woman’s wig when going grocery shopping to avoid getting caught by TCC, and then returns home to continue his crusade in the comments of Telegram or Facebook for the glory of the Great Democratic Leader Bonevtik Zelensky. Anyway, you’re shit in either case.
You have very elaborate fantasies you tankie piece of shit.
Keep LARPing with your “western narratives” and other bullshit.
Що, не розумієш рідної мови, рагуль?
Well the fact here is that you don’t speak Ukrainian (while i do) and you’ve never lived in Ukraine (while I did as a kid). You’re just NAFO scum from some other country posing as Ukrainian to promote your bullshit propaganda. It’s obvious that all your knowledge of Ukraine comes from the media, not from your own life experience. Now, once you were exposed, you can get fucked.
Keep telling yourself that.
I am not buying your use of web translation tools.
You don’t actually need to know Ukrainian to write what you write. The funny thing is Ukrainians in Ukraine don’t speak that way.
The fact of the matter is you don’t live in Ukraine, you don’t have any idea of what people think here. And you are tankie scum.
You are willing to support genocidal imperialism for some online roleplay.
I freely admit that I (luckily) don’t live in Ukraine now - and neither do you, but you’ve never lived there either, and are now trying to hide that fact.
After your rants about web translators, I’m sure of it, because the very first time I asked about a pretty specific thing in a pretty specific way. If you really are from one of the cities that are currently under Russian control (as you’ve been trying to claim in posts in other communities where no one has been able to call your bluff), you’d recognize it easily. Moreover, I used some other local political memes that you didn’t catch. Since you’re not from Ukraine, you can’t speak Ukrainian, you don’t know common local stuff and you have no connection to Ukraine at all. You’re doing your “online roleplay”, but you’re failing miserably at the most easiest checks.
I have no idea where you actually live - in the EU or the US, in any case, for you, Ukrainians are some random aboriginals from a country that you couldn’t point out on a map a few years ago, you don’t really care how many Ukrainians will die tomorrow, as for you it’s no more than a some online moniker, and that’s why your comments at all instances are full of some kind of shithead warmongering propaganda.
And the funniest thing is that if you would start your roleplay at .world or shitJW, their users would happily upvote your crap and eagerly consume misinformation from fake Ukrainian. Because they are not at all against the misinformation if it suits their tastes.
Bugger off. First of all, I never claimed I lived in the occupied territory. I said I am from Donbas and my family is from there. Learn to read, you turd.
Secondly, you wouldn’t know anything about local political memes since you don’t live here (which you yourself admitted). Only a degenerate tankie would claim to know local political meme’s better than someone who actually lives in the country.
You wrote two simple sentences and they sound fucking awkward. No one speaks like that be it online or in IRL conversations.
Fuck right off with your faux-pacificism and genocide white-washing. Wherever you are, it would be in the interest of the locals to cancel your citizenship and ship you off to russia.
You are a net loss for society and therefore a perfect candidate to go russia. The champagne bottles are waiting for you! ;)
