- cross-posted to:
- politics
- cross-posted to:
- politics
“Trumpism is not going to be defeated by inside-the-Beltway politicians,” he said.
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I heard them described as ‘Limp Dick Democrats’ today.
And that’s pretty fitting.
The perma stun proceeds as planned
This isnt correct, the libs are not frozen, they dont mind what is going on. Its the leftist that are doing anything right now.
Name one effective thing leftists are doing.
Didnt AOC just host a massive rally that helped to prevent space karen from ransacking the department of labor with his likely H1B visa doge goons?
While I feel like this is bait, lets just say they are the ones out here actively confronting it, maybe not in the spaces you are watching but they are on the floor and in their communities talking to the people and voicing their concerns. But to your point, they can not do anything alone, they dont have more then a handful let alone votes for anything more of “Hey this is the law, they are breaking it” but going after them isnt easy they dont have the bankroll the libs and conservatives have from all their corporate backers.
Someone needs to take a page outta VP trumps book and start dog shitting on how bad hes making it for the every day person. Direct the hate those people have to the ones fucking us all and a revolution will happen. Itll be an uphill battle for sure, but the big trumpers are small minded and once they are negatively affected and are given a new target, they’ll jump at it if you can convince them they’ll benefit.
Edit: forgot the word ‘it’, oops.
There needs to be a voice organizing this! Bernie would be great, however i dont think he has it in him to be like that. Thats why AOC (Alexandria Ocasio Cortez) needs to become a firebrand and galvanize any forward thinking person to push for change and not to accept anything less than better.
No more lesser of the two evils. We need to become better than we are.
Hate being that guy, but going to be anyway- as much as I like Bernie, he always seems to talk a lot and yet, never manages to do anything. It’s always, “Bernie doesn’t like this thing,” or “Bernie had stern words for this person,” but nothing ever happens from it.
He’s like if Anonymous was a government employee.
This is more accurately a right wing talking point about Bernie. A quick search will turn up many articles such as this one from the 2016 elections. One thing to keep in mind is that he doesn’t introduce as many bills as some of his peers, but has had great success in passing amendments to bills.
Perfect? No. Unaccomplished? Absolutely no.
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
Big changes that become extremely popular and supported by the public and are largely looked back on by future generations as positive or even necessary are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
Do not underestimate the power of small groups of passionate people who want to make the world a better kinder place. You can’t bribe these people, you can’t distract these people, you can’t silence these people, you have to jail and kill every single last one to stop them from agitating the shit out of the general population to get normal people to fight for better treatment for themselves and others. Every single one of these people is from the perspective of an authoritarian dictator a nightmare to deal with since like a catastrophically deadly virus, it only takes one of these people spreading the contagion uncontrolled and unnoticed to tear the body apart.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Agreed, I don’t mean to downplay the gravity of this situation, but on the other hand I think many people are comfortably past the point of needing to hold on to the structures that define the status quo. Government does not exist once the majority of people stop believing in it a basic level. Violence and control still exist, and they yet may win the day, but no matter what happens in the realm of physical bodies struggling against other physical bodies in the realm of ideas they have already lost and that means that no arrangement of threats or violent systems of control will truly ever be stable.
I take hope in that.
are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
These people have either a working democratic system already, a plan to force that to change, or the ability for organized violence.
The main problem with this sort of movement, and indeed most of the liberal USA online political community is that none of those apply.
I am not trying to negate the worry and fear you are speaking to, it is rational, things are looking very grim in the US and lots of other places too (a lot of places because of the US ughh) I was just trying to point out that good people don’t need a functioning top down government/hierarchy to be good people. Communities will persist and individuals will perish, along with rugged individualism as a pseudo-religion.
Now is the time to find and connect with the people in your life that don’t look to rules to understand how to be kind, but rather look to the heart they wear on their sleeve and extend in vulnerable expressions of trust to odd people who don’t quite fit in. Those people exist and they will always exist.
Which isn’t to say that you are wrong or that things are going to be good, or that good people are going to win in the nearterm.
Now is a time to look towards Indigenous voices, Black voices, voices of minorities of disabled communities, voices of people with unusual minds, lives and bodies. These people are used to living, fighting and persisting in this kind of reality, it is only the rest of us that are newly born into a much scarier world where things we thought were safe actually want to hurt us for reasons we have no control over.
I agree with your sentiment and feelings.
But unless there is good governance, or a plan to create good governance, it’s not political here, only common sense in what you are saying.
Politics means changing the current governance, which these movements cannot because they are too kind, gentle and naive. Activists I talked to in the last few years, people of different backgrounds seem to have an amazing trait of speaking true to their causes yet have a childlike faith in the very people who oppress them to run fair elections in many states. Or absent that, a failure to speak on that publicly.
One cannot do politics by voting unless there are accurate ballot counts that pass United Nations standards
And I think those living in the states which do have real democracy are affected by those which are not.
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Fair and again I think your critique is a super important one, I am responding because I think what you are saying is important. What I am trying to suggest is that maybe we shouldn’t strive for movements that work on the level of states or federal governments right now, now is the moment maybe to work along vectors that exist as alternatives to those structures of power. I guess in a way that is what you are saying is necessary, I think we are both speaking to the existential need for a progressive embrace of radicalism in this moment.
I can agree with that.
One of the reasons we (in the USA) are in this mess is the collapse of community structures, both along ethnic and general lines. What I witnessed decades ago, with grassroots and community outreach, is not possible today due to how many times people have moved, changed careers and adapted to new technology ( the USA in the last two generations had more change than Europe in the first industrial revolution, by many metrics, and after such changes it takes time). Its why local politics is often not talked about.
So anything that is community building, is good, and a step toward better lives later. And I totally support that, in whatever form
Bernie is right; politics needs to focus on the socioeconomic (“tangible”) difference for the people. Generating income for the people is what’s important.
He gives us focus on a problem so we can focus on the solutions. This is what populism is supposed to be, someone uniting us under one call to action, one message, and we all link arms and say with one voice that we want a better world.
The problem: wealthy robber-barons have taken over the country and rampant capitalism is undermining literally everything about our society and won’t rest until there’s nothing left to extract from a population.
The solution: https://guillotine.dk/pages/drawings1792.html
edit: the single, stinging downvote reminded me that even mocking threats against our oppressors isn’t “civil” and that if we really want to actually benefit from the wealth we generate for others, we should just sit down, shut up and appreciate the fact that literally everything is going to be a paid-subscription model designed to make sure you don’t keep a dime of your own work and effort. I promise I will be a better servant for the landowners and just work the fields like a good serf.
Didn’t Trump win because of “the price of eggs”? Seems to me that people are struggling and voting for whatever they think may help them, so there is probably a huge group of people who could be swayed by Bernie, right? One can hope lol
We really need to start developing ways to primary the hell out of any of the democrats in Washington who continue to do nothing, or rather who are actively being passive because all they care about is the rich donor money. If they started feeling the heat from the chance they could lose their position to a challenger they’d start to change their tune.
People like AOC and Sanders that are going around to different states and online, explaining to people how to stand up and resist, how to say: “this is not normal, but it is also not the time to feel helpless and defeated”, should be emulated by the entire Democratic party.
AOC is definitely doing what you’ve said. But while some of what Sanders is doing is that, I think the important difference is that he’s actually going around to people who have historically disagreed with him and saying, “This is how the people you voted for are betraying that vote. We need to work together to stop them.” We need both from the DNC, especially depending on their constituents.
But I was told that the Harris campaign trying to court traditionally Republican voters was a mistake.
because Harris tried to court them by doubling down on xenophobia, transphobia and a genocide, instead of trying to unite them with the fact that our true enemy has always been the corporate billionaires who own our politicians. There’s an obvious reason why the Harris campaign didn’t go with that message, which I leave as an exercise for the reader.
Trump voters, more or less, face the same economic issues we do. They just don’t understand them, and they don’t understand why voting for fascism isn’t going to fix those issues. Trying to get them to understand is an excellent and admirable goal. I’m not certain Bernie will succeed, nor do I have the patience to support him in this endeavor any more, but I wish him luck. I also don’t think it will matter anymore, as Republicans have already said they’re ignoring their constituency, and I don’t think we’ll have fair and free elections ever again.
But I was told that the Harris campaign trying to court traditionally Republican voters was a mistake.
Courting by trying to be republican lite instead of courting them with alternatives.
^^^this. All of it.
I get your /s, but bruh. Harris going on tour with the Cheneys was a terrible mistake. Bernie holding rallies and town halls in poor red districts and explaining to people how the richest man in the world bought the presidency to literally rob them of what little they have, not a mistake. There is a huge difference between the two.
There is a difference between explaining how someone is getting screwed and saying you’ll fight with them against getting screwed and saying you’re a more friendly version of the person that’s about to screw you.
Bernie is doing it in a way that doesn’t alienate his base. He’s not pretending to be something he’s not, and is approaching Republican voters with authenticity. He’s not betraying his values or the values of his base. If you can’t see the difference, I’m not sure how to help you.
It was. They didn’t hold their base. Also, they decided to “court” the intolerant, even tho there might be some tolerant, but traditionally Republican, voters.
LOL
Could have had two terms of this guy now
Two terms with him not looking for a 3rd…
Or he wouldve been so wonderful, the people pushed to have him for a third. Roosevelt stayed in so long so we’re not opposed to keeping someone for more then two terms.
True but he’s also the reason for the rule.
Bernie is a great speaker. He’s very direct and speaks plainly. It’s effective.
I love Bernie, but he isn’t effective… hopefully this time he will be, but I don’t see anything he says being shared online
He won over a crowd of Fox “News” fans.
A pig with lipstick could win over that crowd.
You’re seeing it right now. That’s what we’re doing here
Bernie needs 2008 Obama level attention or this isn’t going to mean anything.
And yes, that’s why I am here too. But, our numbers are too small.
He’s one person, you can’t change the system without the people being on your side. After the Watergate scandal, and subsequent
ReganNixon resignation and evisceration in the media, fox News showed up.Between Fox News and all the other misinformation floating around today, the landscape is much different than when people like Martin Luther King Jr. were involved in the civil rights movement.
Basically, it’s easy to lie and sling mud, but much harder to fight with facts when the internet can spread lies at a blistering speed around the world through social media.
Regan resignation
Oh man, that’s the timeline I want to live in!
(It was Nixon… but I get the confusion, both were evil fucks)
Whoops, yeah, got the name wrong. Good catch
Edit: I get them confused bcz they were both evil pieces of shit.
We are watching one man change the system without the people. So, I disagree. Bernie just needs to say aloud what we are all thinking.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. Of course his rhetoric and abrasive disregard for the law has emboldened others to be more direct in their hate, but if Trump were to die today these problems wouldn’t just magically disappear.
Thats the problem; there’s a lot of people who aren’t thinking the same things that Bernie says. Those people give Trump his power. He’s nothing without a backing.
There’s a lot of politicians and corporate media who aren’t thinking the same things Bernie says. There are a lot of people – including quite a few who currently support Trump – who would be thinking the same things Bernie says, if they became aware of the possibility.
That scares the fuck out of both the Republicans and the corporatist Democrats, though, which is why even though Bernie draws huge crowds he gets such little media airtime.
What? Trump isn’t doing shit by himself. He’s got a plethora of zealots and other Nazis carrying out the entire Project 2025 plan. He’s got tens of millions of zealot voters rabidly defending everything their dictator is doing.
And that’s the thing a lot of people don’t understand. Trump is the figurehead for a whole movement. That’s the scary part.
He doesn’t have that much support for his actions. He just lives in a country where nearly everyone does nothing to stop him. You aren’t. I’m not. I’ll bet no one here is doing anything besides screaming. Maybe that used to work, but it’s not now. Republicans at Idaho protests are literally telling the crowd “your voice doesn’t matter”
And they’re right.
It’s simply inaccurate to say that Trump and Musk still doesn’t have popular support. You’re in too much of an echo chamber if you think that everyone’s against them right now. The vast majority of his voter base is tap dancing in glee.
I never said everyone. Maybe stop hallucinating the conversation.
Trump is not changing the system by himself. He is enabled by thousands and thousands of people propping him up. Project 2025 is written by a bunch of lawyers, and neo-christiofascists. If it was just Trump by himself, the movement never would be as successful as it is.
I would also argue, this has been the culmination of 50 years of federalist society scheming. It didn’t just appear out of nowhere with Trump. He’s just the festering wound at the center, and a symptoms of a much larger issue.
well that is Bernie’s role.
Act the part full of piss and vinegar and eventually tell you to vote for the fimal corporate dem.Don’t get mad at Bernie because the people won’t act. He can say the most correct, moral and ethical things imaginable; it doesn’t mean shit until people stand up and fight for it.
And since we’re considering roles, what’s yours? To piss on any and every semblance of progress because it doesn’t meet your exact moral criteria? lol
Bernie did not have to capitulate. But he did.
Watched his townhall Friday, was pretty much the same he always says, but it’s been the same problems for decades now. So someone has to keep saying it I guess
Maybe if we keep voting for Republicans and centrist corpo Democrats we’ll finally fix the problems they haven’t been able to fix for decades!
You know what they say: the definition of insanity is trying something and failing so you change tactics!
New DNC chair seems halfway decent…
The problem for decades was Obama left the DNC in the hands of bitter neoliberals willing to do anything (including let trump win) to prevent a progressive from making it to the general.
We don’t need a savior running the dnc, just not a villain.
And I don’t think Ken Martin is a villain. So I’m being cautiously optimistic about the party while I can. It might not last long, but I’ll take all the silver linings I can get these days
I’d argue that we need someone in the dnc leadership chair who can effect a culture change and get them representing people again instead of just donors. Thats a heavy lift that few could handle.
I’d argue that we need someone in the dnc leadership chair who can effect a culture change and get them representing people again instead of just donors
Then I’d advise reading up on Ken Martin…
The whole “good billionaire” thing is a single quote from a month ago before the chair vote. When he was asked if he’d still accept billionaire money.
For some reason it’s popped up on Lemmy today.
Martin has a long history in Minnesota, you don’t have to rely on hypotheticals for what kind of party leader he’ll be.
When he ran Minnesota he did exactly what you said we need.
The problem for decades was Obama left the DNC in the hands of bitter neoliberals willing to do anything (including let trump win) to prevent a progressive from making it to the general.
This problem is ongoing.
Even if the head is halfway decent, clowns like Jefferies, Schumer and Pelosi aren’t going anywhere. I don’t expect to see the DNC do much better than it already is.
The reason they’re still there is the DNC’s treatment of anyone associated to a primary challenge if a Dem incumbent…
Without a bitter neoliberal running the DNC, they don’t have that anymore.
There’s a difference between “the party” and “dem politicians”. Much like trump wants to make himself the R party, those neoliberals want the D party to be them. It’s not.
The reason they’re still there is the DNC’s treatment of anyone associated to a primary challenge if a Dem incumbent…
If a centrist dem incumbent. They were happy to cut Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush loose with no support.
I’m not convinced but I’m gonna hope I’m wrong.
Welcome to the club lol.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. We’ll find out soon enough what the new DNC is like.
He looks to be just more of the same to me.
Really?
Minnesota has been a progressive stronghold, surprising pretty much everyone to be honest…
And it’s because Ken Martin has spent the last 7 years as the head of the state party
Can you imagine a neoliberal writing anything like this about a member of The Squad?
The future of our party depends on leaders like Omar. As someone who worked for the late U.S. Sen. Paul Wellstone, I know he would have been incredibly proud to have her represent Minnesota in the People’s House. As Wellstone said, “If we don’t fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don’t really stand for them.” Omar understands this. She fights hard to bring home wins to her community. Because of her advocacy, nearly 30 million kids were fed during the pandemic. Because of her unwavering commitment, she pushed for the boldest climate package possible to deliver the Inflation Reduction Act. And because of her relentless devotion to her district, she has brought back $54 million in federal funding to community-centered programs across the Fifth District.
Omar is a progressive leader who has built up our party and championed its core priorities, including defending reproductive freedom, lowering health care costs, and ensuring our kids don’t go hungry. That’s why I encourage all DFL primary voters in the Fifth District to cast their vote for her by Aug. 13.
Again, not saying the guy is perfect, but compared to the last 30 years of DNC leadership, I can’t think of someone better than this dude.
Omars great, and its great that Martin wrote an endorsement. I worry that DFL is parrelel to good policy but is maybe not where it needs to be philosophically to be effective, much as I liked Waltz as Harris’ running mate. I liked him a lot more than I liked Harris.
Martin’s DFL is better than the DNC sure, but are they getting it right enough to be the group thats going to save the day if we stand behind them?
Its become Amy Klobachars pet group. She’s the one sr. senator they have. The same Klobachar who argued in court often to exceed maximum sentences and bragged about it constantly, and was the runner up to be Bidens VP. My Klobachar problem and by extension DFL, is that in her term in office she declined to prosecute every single police corruption and abuse case that hit her desk, including Derek Chauvins murder of George Floyd. Thats just not right, and it stinks of centrist cowardice-- and it should be the end of her leadership potential. What does that failing mean in terms of how progressive she will be? Because in your face, dont-ask-for-permission progressivism for the peoples causes is what we need, not more centrism and fear of being called “soft on crime” or weak on foriegn policy-- which was always Bidens greatest fear-- being called names by republicans. We dont need someone who cowers and fears first and leads second.
I know nothing about Martin, but I’ve read enough comments from @givesomefucks to believe that if the guy meets his exacting standards, that’s pretty high praise.
didnt realize. fair point, @givesomefucks is solid. I’ll do more research.
New DNC chair believes in the party being owned by the “good billionaires” as he calls them.
New DNC chair believes in the party being owned by the “good billionaires” as he calls them.
I’d love a source on that
“There are a lot of good billionaires out there that have been with Democrats, who share our values, and we will take their money. But we’re not taking money from those bad billionaires.”
What a fucking joke.
There are a lot of good billionaires out there that have been with Democrats, who share our values, and we will take their money,
Aka we are going to continue being funded and controlled by billionaires.
But…
Did he actually say that, and if so can you provide a source?
Yes.
You can actually do the bare minimum of effort yourself and Google the exact quote provided to find a clip on YT or anywhere else where he said that at the DNC forum and watch those words come from his mouth yourself.
Did he actually say that, and if so can you provide a source?
A cursory google search for ‘Ken Martin “Good Billionaires”’ comes up with stories from the following sources:
Bernie cooking as usual
Thats because he is an antifascists while most Democrats are not.
