tweet by Zara Larsson @zaralarsson:
Isn’t it strange how every woman knows someone who’s been sexually harassed but no man seem to know any harasser?
Statistically, I probably know multiple harassers, but none of them have admitted it to me.
What’s the statistic on harassers? It could be way lower than the number of harassed women. It’s not like it’s a 1-1 relationship.
The idea that men go through life without ever witnessing rape culture really is fantastical, I wish I could subscribe to this self imposed illusion!
So because I don’t make friends with fuckin rapists I’m somehow the problem? Neat!
That’s one of the things that bothers me. It’s so normalized, I probably have witnessed some form of abuse, but didn’t even recognize it as such.
There is no question that you have, and probably will again, but making yourself aware of what it looks like and being willing to speak up or step in is the only way to counter that (and is intimately more effective than trying to cling to “not all men” like so many others).
Yeah. It took me a while (too long, tbh) to realize that not being an active part of the problem wasn’t enough. I need to watch for it, and call people out.
Hell, everyone does. We know better. There’s just no excuse for letting it continue.
It’s not an illusion. The men that perform this harassment generally know they’re wrong and therefore keep it secret.
I don’t know anyone who’s sexually assaulted/harassed a woman because I’m very open about how that’s not fucking okay. If I find out someone has it’ll either lead to violence or cutting them out of my life completely
And another one misses the point .
And another one gone, and another one gone, another one misses the point…You’re not funny pr particularly creative and you’re not realöy making a point. You’re just being annoying.
Cry harder
So stop being cryptical. What IS your point?
You’re doing this a lot in this thread what is your actual point.
Try figuring it out on your own time
Every man goes to secret fratbro social club meetings. It’s on the third Tuesday rotating bi annually every year. We do it at 4am so you don’t notice we’re gone. It’s where we all tell each other our secret darkest sexual assault/rape confessions so everyone can know who we need to cover for.
As if you rapists have to work that hard when the world is literally your club…
I’m guessing you’re a female incel.
Why, OP, are you being so toxic in all your answers? Sure there are men who harassed or are still harassing women and every one is one enough. But pointing out that some of us don’t know anyone personally who is guilty of doing such isn’t downplaying. Even IF I would say “NOT ALL MEN!1!!” doesn’t mean shit. It doesn’t mean “yeah, you are exxagerating” or “this problem isn’t that big as you try making it” It’s just a “I don’t really want to be associated with that kind of male scum.” Nothing more, nothing less.
But IF you wanted to say “Distancing in a post is not enough to stop this.” you could have said it, instead of trying to drive a wedge.
Do it and try to have a constructive dialog instead, maybe?
Not with those clearly incapable of listening, let alone not centre themselves and make it all about how they aren’t part of the problem despite actively being part of the problem
The problem you are creating is driving away the ACTUAL discourse into meta discussions like this and angering those who actually ARE listening in the first place. You are NOT helping the case - at all.
Edit: I just want to make it clear: Your claim isn’t true and thus cannot be a healthy start for a deep and honest discussion about harrasment.
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Wow, the not all mens are getting longer, such a shame to waste your breath
You know, when MeToo came out, I thought I’d been lucky because I’d never been harassed.
And then I thought about it, and I remembered:
Walking through the mall and a guy making the “big jugs” gesture at the male friend I was walking with, congratulating my friend on his date (it wasn’t a date).
The older guy who tried to pick up noticably-underage me at the town fair, then followed me around, and how I literally had to run into the woods to get away from him.
The kid I went to school with who tried to finger me in the football stands.
The senior manager at a large programming firm who thought it was appropriate (very visibly in his company office) to hang a shadow box with a bunch of little medallions in it. Except when you looked closely at the medallions, you found out that they were actually hooker tags from quite a number of brothels.
The greying mechanic my mom had come over to work on her car while she was at work, who wanted 15-year-old me to kiss him.
The multiple coworkers who deliberately kept making crude sexual jokes, and if you ignore them or join in, they take it as permission to keep going, and if you’re uncomfortable or say something they take it as a challenge and escalate, and if you report it you end up getting fired for something else in the next month or so.
Slapping hands away, so many times.
And even in the context of MeToo, I thought I hadn’t been harrassed, when in reality I’d just normalized the harassment and ignored it. Because it wasn’t that bad, it wasn’t ‘abuse’, it wasn’t constant.
But while it may not have been constant, it was persistent. There wasn’t a single place that I was ever safe. The carefree town fair, the local shops, school, work, my own home when the mechanic came in to use the bathroom. There’s literally no place in my life where intrusive men haven’t tried to insert themselves, without invitation, without even asking.
And I look at this meme and it’s “every woman knows someone who’s been harassed”, and I think over my own experience, and that of all my female relatives, and friends, and schoolmates, and coworkers, and I think that meme is wrong.
I think pretty much every woman has been harassed. It’s just that, like me, they learned to ignore and then forget these things, because they weren’t as bad as the really bad things that have happened to some of the women we know. But - and not discounting the really bad experiences some people I know have had - these experiences were all bad enough.
MeToo.
Wtf is a hooker tag?? Do they give you a little momento to remember the encounter??
What makes you think this is an appropriate reply to someone discussing their experiences of sexual harassment??
Am I meant to just not know what something they found inappropriate is? How does that help?
You can understand enough of a situation without that one detail
It’s almost like your post was just to argue with anybody that replies
That’ll be exactly it.
Just a raging woman that’s hell bent on being aggressive towards anything that doesn’t align with their super aggressive beliefs, that all men are trash, and anyone who takes the spotlight off her are also trash, and probably gaslighters too.
I’m a woman who has been assaulted several times, sometimes by those who I trusted, but I welcome open conversation, education and an understanding that many people who identify as allies just want to know more.
Hi! French feminist dude here for context.
First of all, I am sorry for what you had to endure. It’s a lot.
Now regarding the post, I encountered very few harassers in my life (my own brother sadly is one of them, and a Texan expat that used to be my friend until, well you know)
I don’t think harassers will spontaneously come out about their « habit ». From what I’ve seen, men know very well what abusive behavior is, but will never admit that they are abusive themselves because it would reveal their own weakness. Men are terrified of looking weak.
About my own mistakes, I’ve never been an harasser (I won’t take a no for a yes) but I have abused a woman once because she never told me « no » nor pushed me back. It was years before #MeToo
I didn’t know she was raised as a Mormon, forbidden to say no to a man.
We spend the night and most of the next day together, mostly talking about books and movies but didn’t « make it ». We mostly kissed and I only went down on her during the night. I had absolutely no clue, and learned about my mistake about 2 years later.
I was devastated.
My point is that there’s a lot of work to do. Men and women still have no clue about what’s the right thing to do.
Keep going. And thank you.
Jesus fucking christ, and I though men couldn’t find more disgusting ways to centre themselves…
There is a lot of work to do - star with yourself, and don’t go around claiming to be a feminist, because you’re not.
Alright. I took time to read your other reactions, and I don’t understand why you would react like this to my own testimony.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough. When I said I only met 2 harassers in my life, I didn’t mean there wasn’t many. I meant they are good at hiding. My own brother looks like an angel, and you wouldn’t tell by seeing him in public, but he acts like a fucking monster the moment a woman is involved. I discovered the true face of my former Texan friend years after we met.
My other and very personal point was to show that not every women are even able to say no. Patriarchy is not just men telling women what they can or can’t do. It’s also a voice deep in women head that need to be shut. Those are not my words, and I would have found difficult to believe that some women could accept to spend two days straight chilling with a man they don’t even like AND who just abused them if I didn’t experience it myself. That part was for the men who were reading. That was a word of caution to the men, because men need to be educated.
I thought my own experience could be insightful, and I am sorry if I hurt you in any way.
EDIT I am beginning to think I misspoke the word harasser for another, more dangerous kind of men. Violent jealous stalker is more akin to what I meant
Fuck, I’m cis-het guy and I hadn’t really thought about it until #MeToo, but MeToo.
Hanging out with my girlfriend, her friends & my wife and one of the guy friends grabbed my junk and said that “you have a nice package”. I moved away from him, but otherwise, the night just continued as it had been and I went on with my life.
There have been a few other instances, sometimes with men, sometimes with women, but, fuck if that isn’t a shitty realization to have come to.
Once, to show her daily experience, my gf at the time (now wife) had me walk far enough in front of her that we didn’t appear together, but not so far I wouldn’t be able to hear. The amount of catcalls when walking down a city street while dressed non-provactively was fucking ridiculous (it would still be ridiculous if she were ‘dressed to impress’ to be fair, but I’m trying to illustrate that she wasn’t dressed in any way that could ‘generously’ be interpreted as ‘asking for the attention’). I hadn’t not believed her before, but seeing it myself was eye opening and made me realize I need to not be in a bubble when I’m out and about.
Anyone who identifies as a guy and says “I’ve never seen someone getting harassed” … open your eyes and ears as you walk through the world and see if that’s actually true or if you just didn’t pay enough attention to notice it.
Ask basically any woman you know if they’ve ever gotten catcalled or had their ass grabbed in public or at what age men in their 40s started sexualizing them; if you have a close enough relationship, I can almost guarantee that they’ll say ‘yes’ to the first couple and 12-14ish for the last one – and those are direct questions rather than “have you been harassed” which might be more open to self-deception.Everyone knows it’s not ALL men, but I have to imagine that it feels close-a-fucking-nough when you’re getting harassed on what feels like a constant basis.
This is well put, shame those who need to hear it most will refuse to listen (to advice like yours, but definitely not to any women they might have in their lives)
Well said, I think OP of the tweet probably wanted to avoid replies from women claiming they hadn’t had these experiences (most likely because like you, like me, like so many of us, they internalised it), but I’m with you - I don’t know a single woman who has managed to escape harassment (at the very least). From before we even hit puberty, for our entire lives, it’s like this background noise, and half the population pretending they don’t even hear it feels like a slap in the face.
Well it’s not like they go around advertising that they are harassers and rapists.
The statement also assumes the numbers are equal, but predominant amount of assaults are perpetrated by a minority of people. So you have a small number of abusers who victimize a large amount of people.
Them not advertising it doesn’t mean they aren’t there, and that if only you cared enough to know the signs or even just listen to and believe women when we literally point them out, you would see them too.
That second part is also factually and statistically simply not true but I honestly don’t care enough about educating you to do your research for you.
I think you are missing my point here. “No man seems to know” is precisely because because it’s hidden. It’s not that they don’t know, it’s that they don’t know that they know, because people don’t advertise their acts.
As for statistics, general crime statistics in everyday category point to a minority of people perpetrating them, unless you are saying that this is somehow different from all other behavior.
Thanks for the patronizing instead of “educating”. I’m sure your that will help to actually address the problem.
Right, I’m missing the point of my own post, it couldn’t possibly be you missing the point, which has already been explained plenty, you just don’t like what you hear, but that’s a you problem.
Also I don’t owe you shit, go educate yourself you self centered ass
Weird, it’s like harassers don’t want to be known about and try to keep their activities secret.
I know a lot of men who are constantly sexually harassed by women.
When a woman does it, she’s a cougar and gets her own PornHub channel.
nOt alL mEn!!1 he cried as I blocked him…
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OP is, given the volume of posts, most likely a bit reposting content from elsewhere.
There’s some good point, but a lot of man-hating “feminazi” propaganda where I question whether they were created in good faith or if they are part of an astroturfing campaign to erode support for gender equality activists.
and in my experience tend to speak up.
Your experience is a statistical anomaly at best
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It’s much more likely you simply don’t notice.
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The idea that you somehow exist in a bubble where no sexual harassment happens is beyond ridiculous.
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I’m not mixing any words, it just sounds like you’re making a lot of excuses for yourself as to why you’ve never encountered any harassment, because I guarantee you have.
I don’t know any cause I refuse to associate with creeps who sexually assault or harass others, regardless of who they are
That’s missing the point entirely and if you don’t feel it applies to you don’t still pipe up to make it about you, especially with a “not all men”.
As much as you want it to be true, not all men associate with rapists. Sorry. I’m as liberal as you get, but you can’t be stupid and hateful to one group and call yourself progressive. I’ve worked hard to be good and stay away from bad people, you can’t shit it all away cause I was born the gender you hate
Lmfao, aaaaaand the mask comes off. I knew not banning you instantly would bear more evidence fruit for my YES ALL MEN tree, because YES ALL MEN BUT ESPECIALLY YOU.
Go fuck yourself
TBF I’ve known a hand full of men who openly talk about harassing or having harassed women. They just don’t see it as harassment, because they think it’s “no big deal” or that they “have” to treat women like that.
TW sexual assault: I was once waiting for a friend when a very drunk man came up to me and started talking. He was babbling about how he likes to fight, and his ex and so on, when he suddenly shouted (direct quote): “I didn’t rape her! I just punched her in the gob a few times and she spread her legs all on her own!”
I think that’s an extreme case, but not as extreme as one might think.
This right here is the quiet part of the tweet out loud, thank you! 👏👏👏
It’s all around all of them (us!) constantly, it just isn’t a problem to them, so they “don’t see” it (to varying degrees of awareness).Also jfc what that guy said to you, but as you say not that extreme or even unusual… 😕
As a cis male, I learned a lot from the book “Everyday Sexism” by Laura Bates. It really opened my eyes to the reality that women deal with on a regular basis, and I hope it’s ok to recommend it here.
Yeah, any educational resource helps!
It’s a particular kind of weird as a trans person. You go from being largely ignored while out and about to getting looks of disgust to getting catcalled all within the span of a year in my case.
There’s a sort of, yay I pass from a distance kind of thing but then it settles in and it becomes yet another thing to try and tune out and hope words are the worst of it. Heaven forbid some guy hollers at you and then stops his truck up ahead cause you said nothing and didn’t look his way.
That must be such a strange and overwhelming mix of emotions. I can only imagine it’s like when we afab folks hit puberty and suddenly were seen as an object of desire and there’s all this unwanted attention that we’ve also been taught to take as a compliment, it’s so confusing.
It is. As someone who got a lot of those messages that were directed at AFAB folks and internalized them it was like putting a critical piece into a puzzle. It’s one thing to hear about it and have some insights. It’s another to be immersed in it so late in life comparably.
Lol the comment section here is a shitshow. OP had an interesting post that could have prompted a good discussion, but instead went toxic female incel in the comment section and became a laughing joke.
Only this isn’t a discussion space, and I’m not here to coddle the feelings of fragile egos of men who are completely incapable of (and entirely unintersted in) actually listening.
Also making the false comparison between an individual woman not giving men who are here for no other reason but whine, the time of day, and a literal bunch of terrorists that is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of women and indirectly the deaths of hundreds more, doesn’t do you any favours.
Go cry about it someplace else.This social media platform comment section isn’t a discussion space?
No one was asking to be coddled. You jumped down the throat of anyone who shared their opinion.
You will never contribute to the solution of this problem, and not because of your desire to change it, I’m sure you’re motivated. But you lack any form of communication skills to engage in meanful conversation. Without that you cannot provide a convincing argument to educate.
You alienate yourself from your audience you wish to address and improve, and without any credibility your contribution is meaningless. Then you become a target for ridicule, which appears to perpetuate your situation as you lash out more.
Communication and meaningful conversation is a powerful tool, and one worth wielding to address topics such as this.
I knew a harasser that admitted to harassing the girls in our friend group for fun. Fortunately he was afraid of harassing my gf at the time because I called him out on his bullshit. That entire friend group chose him over me.
Men are trash (myself included, im no saint) and I hope my daughter is a lesbian.I hope she sees this bro
Men are trash
You sound very intelligent.
No you
Congratulations, you did the bare minimum and then made sure to make the conversation about you and your “effort” for some cookies.
Well I’m all out of cookies to give.
The lesson here is sometimes it’s ok, if not mandatory, to just shut up and listen.Don’t start a conversation with a post like this and start shit with people who respond with their point of view.
If you don’t want people to respond, don’t post.
Read the rules of the fucking page and fuck off, this isn’t a space for assholes to stretch your “debate” muscles…
Had a look, didn’t see aything about not calling out people acting like a cunt. You seem like you’re having a bad day though, so I’ll just let you have this one because it’ll probably make you feel better.
Ta-ta!
I hope she sees this one too bro
Looks like the bros did indeed harmonise as predicted!
https://kbin.social/m/my_mouldy_memes/t/383791/When-the-MRAs-turn-up-to-a-post-about-feminism
