• MonsieurHedge
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    1958 months ago

    People who think being a jackass is a form of activism. That’s all you really need to know.

    • andrew
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      928 months ago

      Uh hello, it’s called jacktivism.

    • Pons_Aelius
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      8 months ago

      I have seen so many thread saying how bad that instance is but every time I ask for links proving how bad they are I have never see anything worth the hate.

      Can you provide some examples?

      • MonsieurHedge
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        798 months ago

        I have never see anything worth the hate.

        You just have a very high tolerance for jackassery. You’ve seen plenty of evidence of hexbear hostility, i.e. the “dunk tank” that would justify not wanting to interact with hexbear users and have actively chosen to disregard it.

        This is because you’re kind of a jackass. Disregarding people engaging in good faith with “just trust me bro” is exactly the kind of thing people really hate hexbear users for. Not because of illegal activity or moral failing, but because they’re assholes. While you may think this isn’t worth de-federation, unfortunately moderators aren’t some kind of legal authority, and if federating with hexbear means instance admins or community moderators need to put in triple the work to prune all the arguments and “”“shitposting”“” hexbear users love, nobody is legally or morally required to put up with it.

        It’s legitimately that simple. Hexbear users are jerks and nobody wants to hang out with them, and that’s enough to ban them from any given community or instance.

        • @[email protected]
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          18 months ago

          Best point I’ve read made here.

          I’m also probably kind if a jackass, because hex bear doesn’t bother me. Would I appreciate a civil conversation to better understand their POV? Totally. Will that happen? No. So I just don’t interact. The fierce protection of LGBTQ communities is something I appreciate however.

            • mycorrhiza they/them
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              8 months ago

              Here FaeDrifter is again saying this shit.

              A HUGE PORTION OF HEXBEAR IS TRANS. OVER HALF THE MODS ARE TRANS. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR THREE YEARS PRIOR TO FEDERATION. FAE, PEOPLE HAVE POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU BEFORE. PROBABLY MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.

              See @[email protected] in this very thread:

              https://lemmy.ml/comment/3504748

              We’ve never “pretended to support lgbt”, why would we? What would be the point of a load of alt right channers roleplaying as queer communists for years on an incredibly niche social media in the hope that eventually redditors would come to the site? And even supposing we did, and we were all just alt right types, if we’d spent years doing reading groups of queer theory together and kicking out transphobes and creating the most queer friendly space on lemmy just as an incredibly long extended bit then would the supposed communists we’re impersonating even take issue with that?

              Like just use some critical thinking, at this point almost half of the sites users are trans and most of the rest are queer, most new users cite our radical opposition to queerphobia as their reason for joining, what evidence is there that we lie about being queer friendly? Like just check out [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] and tell me in good faith that all these people have been lying for years about being queer

              • @[email protected]
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                -38 months ago

                Identiy politics is so silly. It’s possible for a black person to support systemic racism, it’s possible for a Jewish person to support Nazi’s, it’s possible for LGBTQ people to support anti-LGBTQ politicians. Case in point - Jessica Watkins.

                “I am x-identity” is lazy, superficial, irrelevant.

                I don’t think anyone is lying about their identity. I do fully expect that the trans men and women of Hexbear would throw their LGBTQ brothers and sisters in front of a firing squad if it meant a chance at a bloody revolution over the bourgeois.

                • mycorrhiza they/them
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                  8 months ago

                  But THEY DON’T SUPPORT THOSE THINGS! YOU’RE MAKING SHIT UP. THIS IS EASY TO SEE IF YOU GO LOOK AT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT FASCISTS AND TRANSPHOBES. YOU HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR AT LEAST A FUCKING WEEK NOW.

            • YeetPics
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              8 months ago

              It’s just a political angle to get support from people who feel isolated away from other political movements.

              Fucking BINGO.

              These suxbears are just trying to do a psyop. They aren’t good at it either. Xi could have trained them much better is all I’m saying.

          • mycorrhiza they/them
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            8 months ago

            Would I appreciate a civil conversation to better understand their POV? Totally. Will that happen? No.

            People have actually had that conversation. You just have to seem curious and not too accusatory. Also — depending on how skeptical you come across — it might help to keep your questions specific so they don’t feel like they have to defend their entire perspective in one fell swoop, although some might be up for that.

            They’re aware that their perspective tends to be vilified and poorly understood, which both makes them wary of people but also enthusiastic to respond when they find someone they think is actually interested in what they have to say. If I showed them your comment they’d probably be like “hell yeah, send him in.”

            *I made a thread and I was going to link it to you if you wanted to ask questions, but I realized you’re defederated

          • @[email protected]
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            -18 months ago

            I was called a bigot because I dared to say that a person finished transitioning is no longer trans.

            Because they’re done. They’re a man or woman now, and apparently treating them as such means I’m a bigot.

            This isn’t defense, this behavior actively makes things worse for trans people. This is the exact type of behavior conservatives want you to think of when they say “trans people bad”.

            • Seryph (She/Her)
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              38 months ago

              They’re a man or woman now

              This is why, this statement means that you don’t view trans people who haven’t “finished transitioning” as their actual gender. This is a transphobic and pretty reductive understanding of how transition works (albeit one that some trans people hold themselves, usually transmeds). I won’t write an entire essay on why but here’s just a small bit to chew on: consider that a “finished transition” is very different from person to person and some people might never consider it finished. Some people only want to socially transition, others have to medicate for their entire lives, both could consider reaching their ideal state “finished” or they could consider it a continual work in progress.

              Also,

              This isn’t defense, this behavior actively makes things worse for trans people.

              The idea that pointing out someone’s transphobia will somehow support the transphobes is laughable. If being called out is seriously enough to make someone stop supporting trans people then their support was conditional and only surface-level.

              Staying civil, as you suggest, is what actually helps conservatives since it allows their views to go unchallenged when their views are bad and should be challenged. Part of this includes challenging people who may think they are supportive but harbour transphobic beliefs that they haven’t analysed fully. And these wrong beliefs can have actual harm. As a simple example, there are a lot of “allies” who say that trans people are their gender but not their sex, which is a belief that can harm trans people when brought into a medical context where our bodies are (if on HRT) closer to those of our actual gender than to our AGAB.

            • HornyOnMain🏳️‍⚧️
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              18 months ago

              If you are not trans shut the fuck up right now about what is or isn’t good for trans people, trans people do not need a cis saviour to come in and tell us we’re being too unpalatable for liberals who will only support us as long as we don’t get too uppity

            • Catradora-Stalinism☭
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              -38 months ago

              I was called a bigot because I dared to say that a person finished transitioning is no longer trans.

              thats bigoted you fucking godless removed

              I would love to put the entire imperial core in a giant fucking prison and re-educate all of you into communists. Its my favorite fantasy.

        • bane_killgrind
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          -18 months ago

          They’re tankies. End of story.

          This is not a good argument, which is going to elicit the response he had no matter the context.

          People don’t put the effort into showing receipts. And sometimes the receipts are about murders that happened over 100 years ago? This post about the tzars https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/424265/Hexbearians-frustrated-that-user-draws-the-line-at-child-murder

          This whole thread is about the historical context around the summary execution of the romanovs. While the tzars absolutely needed to end, in the context of the 1910s and absolute monarchy, if the children didn’t die there would have likely been civil war trying to reinstate the line into power.

          THIS https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/419779/This-Comm-is-Racist-Thought-Terminating-Nonsense

          Is a much better receipt. User doesn’t understand the winnie the pooh reference, also doesn’t understand the PRCs effort to stifle discussion about TSM and the pressure that firsthand witnesses are under.

          even with this guy, I don’t understand how a user being an idiot is worth defederating. If he’s going into other threads and spouting the same nonsense, sure ban him. If many people are going into other unrelated threads and injecting that kind of misinformation into conversation, that’s a pattern that makes defederating a consideration.

          Is there this pattern, of other communities being disrupted in this way?

          • @[email protected]
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            18 months ago

            Yeah the communities dedicated to screenshotting posts in other instances are a really fucking odd thing I see show up routinely.

            It has always appeared to me there is some kind of side squabble between various communities in the Fediverse against a couple instances in the Fediverse. I pretty much see two flavors: overly personal grudges or hypocritical trolling. Or I guess the swirl option for both, so three flavors.

            It’s kind of nostalgic really, for the old days of forum flame wars.

            • @[email protected]
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              28 months ago

              The purpose is to highlight that tankies are extremists who hide their bigotry and hatred behind progressivism.

              • bane_killgrind
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                18 months ago

                I would respect you more if you had more interests than disliking these people.

                • @[email protected]
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                  18 months ago

                  You don’t dislike people who deny and even celebrate genocides? Don’t think I want your respect if such content is okay with you.

      • @[email protected]
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        718 months ago

        Lol, that’s because the mods of said threads already had to delete all the bullshit they posted once they “accidentally found this on all” and then descent on it like locusts (but they’re totally not brigading!!!1!)

        Here’s one of their mods:

        • Catradora-Stalinism☭
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          -108 months ago

          and guess what

          Kill yourself, bigots. I will not be civil to those who view me as lesser. I view you as lowly as you do me.

      • @[email protected]
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        478 months ago

        https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1854795

        How about flooding a meta thread that’s not on their own instance to insult people who disagree with them?

        Part of the drama with that incident included hexbear folks straight up saying “I thought the whole point of federating with other instances was so that we could dunk on liberals”. Majority of folks on hexbear did not see any issues with the behavior of their members on this post.

        • Fushuan [he/him]
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          68 months ago

          Oh wow, there’s more hexbear comments than blahaj comments. Almost every blahaj comment has like 3-4 responses. I read a comment of someone saying that the thread looks wildly different if you see it from an instance that defederated them, and it’s so sad that it is completely different.

        • Catradora-Stalinism☭
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          -48 months ago

          How about flooding a meta thread that’s not on their own instance to insult people who disagree with them?

          if you consider this a flood imma be real with you, you are very new to the internet

      • Gnothi
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        408 months ago

        If you’d like examples I know some of their bad takes are starting to be posted to [email protected]

        • Pons_Aelius
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          -148 months ago

          I have been there and not seen anything worth banning an instance.

          Can you give a direct link to somersaulting you think should result in de-federation?

          • Gnothi
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            198 months ago

            You may have me confused with someone else. I didn’t say anything about defederation or banning instances.

            What in your opinion is behavior or views that is worthy of defederation? There appears to be many different standards for that from what I’ve seen.

            • Pons_Aelius
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              -78 months ago

              Any account I don’t agree with is a saeloin. Got it.

              Someone provided what I was asking for and I changed my stance in a reply 10 minutes before you commented.

              See my reply to @SkyezOpen in this thread.

              Thank you.

              Finally something ban worthy.

              I agree completely that any instance that hosts that type of content should be de-federated.

              Now, I am sure you will retract your accusation…

                • Pons_Aelius
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                  38 months ago

                  You asked for evidence. I provided it but it wasn’t enough?

                  What is that called?..

          • @SkyezOpen
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            -118 months ago

            They’re tankies. End of story.

            • @[email protected]
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              178 months ago

              Just throwing out the word tankie is pretty much meaningless at this point. It might as well be “woke”. If you have specific issues explain that rather than just trying to shut down a conversation with a word. Some users might be a bit too sympathetic too China but I’ve typically seen them more come from a reasonable non US propaganda viewpoint and have been open to actual criticism about China. Some of it can seem like whataboutism but to be fair a lot of the complaints I see about China are shit the US does as well so it can be a fair point.

              • MonsieurHedge
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                218 months ago

                In terms of the “tankie problem”, it’s mostly supporting Russian aggression in Ukraine pretty much solely to “own the libs” and “get back at the evil NATO”. Most “tankies”, a term that has become effectively meaningless from overuse, are more accurately political contrarians who care less about things getting better for more people and more about Owning The Libs.

                There’s honestly a good chunk of them on most fediverse instances just due to the general community vibe, with Hexbear having more than, say, lemmy.world, but less than lemmygrad. Hexbear stands out moreso to being the successor to Chapo Trap House, a community notorious for being so utterly vile to interact with that nobody wants anything to do with them.

                • @[email protected]
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                  78 months ago

                  I appreciate you actually explaining your position behind the use of the word. I have a lot of issues with NATO and some with Ukraine but I agree that Russia is the aggressor in this situation. I have noticed that some of their users are pro-Russia but most of what I’ve seen is more anti-NATO which I can understand. As I said in another comment I definitely see some of the users troll more than I agree with and I personally prefer to deal with things in a different manner but overall I’m fine with being federated with them.

                • Maeve
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                  -138 months ago

                  Do your think Ukraine and NATO are above reproach?

              • @SkyezOpen
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                368 months ago

                Literally scrolled for 10 seconds and hey genocide denial. https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/c9fc2504-6828-4d30-ad4a-9224e2a2e58f.png

                Not to mention unironic Russia shilling. When I called out a mod he responded with “oh yeah well America worked with nazis.”

                Cool. That’s bad too. They’re contrarian to the point of parody. Literally any wrong by China Russia or north Korea is justified by “well America did the same thing” as if leftists as a whole aren’t already on board with that thing being bad, but it still doesn’t excuse that bad thing now.

                • Pons_Aelius
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                  38 months ago

                  Thank you.

                  Finally something ban worthy.

                  I agree completely that any instance that hosts that type of content should be de-federated.

      • MrJukes
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        128 months ago

        I haven’t really had any issues with them. That said, literally the thread above this one in all top hour has a bunch of people hoping Biden gets COVID and dies…so there is that.

        https://hexbear.net/post/515198

        • Pons_Aelius
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          -78 months ago

          Meh. I have seen the same said about Musk, Trump and others.

          While I don’t agree with that being said about anyone, I think it is still up to a person to decide if they want to block hexbear.

          • MrJukes
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            118 months ago

            For sure, I’m not advocating blocking or defederating at all. But you asked for examples of hexbear being unsavory and I provided one. That is all. It would be more of an accumulation instead of one singular instance that might push some over the edge.

      • YeetPics
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        28 months ago

        You want to form your own opinion, so go check it out.

      • @charliespider
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        28 months ago

        I don’t know personally, but a commenter above wrote:

        I appreciate that they help stomp out fascist, racist, and anti-trans rhetoric on Lemmy.

        So if there’s any truth in that, the backlash could be a bunch of whiney butthurt Nazis.

        • Maeve
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          48 months ago

          I went to a link below and honestly, as another commenter succinctly summarized as “whiny butthurt Nazis” was a giant “freedom” murica style. Seriously, my eyes hurt, I left.

        • Pons_Aelius
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          -138 months ago

          Again: can I please have a link to show why they are bad.

          Otherwise it is just: Trust me Bro

          • @[email protected]
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            -318 months ago

            No you may not have a link. Linking to bad things makes a person bad. Providing evidence of bad things makes a person bad. Anything other than belief makes you bad. In fact I think you must be one of the bad people, because evidence of righteous claims supports the idea that righteous claims require evidence, which is bad.

            • @Misconduct
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              148 months ago

              Well someone posted a bunch of screenshots that just make you look kinda goofy now

      • @[email protected]
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        -318 months ago

        I’ve been asking for links to examples, in posts about online trends, for about a decade now and nobody has ever even once risen to the challenge.

        At this point any claim of the form “The internet has X happening on it” I just immediately dismiss until I see evidence. Which I never do.

        • @Confused_Emus
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          188 months ago

          It’s not the rest of the internet’s responsibility to do your research for you.

          • EnderofGames
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            -78 months ago

            It’s not everyone on the internet’s responsibility to change their opinion to match yours. It is incredibly narrow minded to assume that someone would just do “research” and end with the same opinion of a group of people as you.

            If you see someone express an opinion, and you don’t know why, you ask them, not go to other sources to find why.

            • @Confused_Emus
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              8 months ago

              If you rely on others to fill you in with knowledge, you must not have learned anything after school.

              • EnderofGames
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                -38 months ago

                If you rely on others…

                Yeah, I’m sure you formed that opinion on a factual basis that you found through no help from what others posted or said. When I want to learn something, I do research on books and online media. When I want to understand someone’s opinion, I ask them. If you don’t know the difference between those two, your problems stem way earlier than “after school”.

                You sound like the closeted book nerd that doesn’t understand public opinion. Like all the people on Twitter who once read something about “blacks are more violent than other races”, and if you ask them why they think that, how many stats they read that confirm that, possibilities of other reasons for a study’s conclusion, they respond with “It’s not the rest of the internet’s responsibility to do your research for you”- sound familiar?

                If you want to accuse this “intensely human” person of lying, just do it. But claiming that anyone who hasn’t seen an example within thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? Only been around for 2 months, but millions of site uses) of posts of users being “tankies” just needs to “research” is obtuse and moronic. If someone makes the claim, surely they have an example, and don’t expect everyone who sees this meme to read thousands of messages before continuing on their journey through !memes.

                Except you, of course, who has clearly learned after school not to rely on others, so you must have read all of the comments from various hexbear users yourself, and not taken that opinion from some other poster’s list, right? You did waste all that time before suggesting others do the same for no reason, right?

    • Catradora-Stalinism☭
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      -68 months ago

      Why would we treat you bigoted removed with any sort of dignity. You do not own the right to my respect, we give it to those who earn it.

  • 🍹Early to RISA 🧉
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    8 months ago

    Weirdly intense and antagonistic internet communists.

    Like, picture that guy you avoided conversations with when you were 19.

    • @[email protected]
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      Because, Id wager, their userbase is primarily edgy leftist teenagers, really kind of like if 4chan was left and not right.