Makes me frustrated and hopeless, Its quite clear that they do this for the male gaze and whatever its called, but that doesnt justify it and makes me very sick.
Not saying that beautiful characters are bad, but semi naked characters with unrealistic beauty which both have nothing to do with the game at all is terrible, very terriole.
Why ruin a good game for the so called" male gaze" or “sex sells” thing? why?
I feel like a hypocrite and a loser.
Not sure if indie games are any better, itch io is very good, it has great (hidden) gems.
But its also filled with dating games and whatnot, I didnt check the nsfw games, but I wouldnt be surprised if they filled the entire front page.
Anyway, Its a deep issue for me, wanted to vent, thanks for reading.
What women have to do to look like female video game characters:
Don’t eat garbage like a starving racoon, go for a walk every once in a while, do squats, do sit-ups, wear makeup mainly eyeliner and blush, keep acne/dermatitis in check (optional), wear a pushup bra (optional), wear tight clothes
deemed completely unrealistic and impossible to achieve
What men have to do to look like male video game characters:
Go to the gym every day doing hard muscle training and cardio, take supplements, eat pineapple, take steroids, eat 6000 calories a day, be constantly dehydrated, get vocal training to deepen their voice (optional), get hair implants to maintain perfect hairline regardless of age (optional), be able to grow perfect full beard (optional)
barely possible for a normal person and extremely taxing on body
So stay away from AAA game studios, for so many reasons. Sorted.
Of course, but I am annoyed that they are doing it. It is wrong, at least for me, and so knowing that this keeps, and will keep happening doesnt help.
Not disagreeing, but… have you seen male video game characters? They’re less often half-naked, but usually similarly sexualized.
In fact, video edits about male characters’ appearance are vastly more popular than the ones about female characters’ appearance.
The male characters are also incredibly more unrealistic. At least from my experience. I have yet to meet a guy who looks like Leon Kennedy, Geralt or Adam Jensen. While having met many women who looked exactly like or better than various female game characters.
Some years ago, it may have been the case that female characters were much more sexualized than male characters, due to lack of female gamers. Nowadays though, I feel like it’s nearly equal both ways. The difference is in how the characters are portrayed and received by men and women. Both have, on average, different preferences.
The issue isn’t really with men, female characters or video games. All industries of our entire society are filled to the brim with porn and erotic material. And that’s largely because of capitalism. Porn and anything containing porn sells well. So in a society built around selling and profits, all of that sooner or later becomes the most popular, and the norm.
Capcom literally had a panel filled with women to be absolutely sure they were making Leon as sexy as possible for everyone. He was hand sculpted for one purpose.
And they still gave him that stupid ass haircut?
Like it or not, this is peak male sexy performance. Confirmed by women.
Although I slightly disagree about your claim for how women vs men beauty is presented, I do like/agree with your response. Thank you! 🤍
Porn and anything containing porn sells well. So in a society built around selling and profits, all of that sooner or later becomes the most popular, and the norm. This is what makes me sad too, it troubles me to think that porn is so addictive and is being used to sell stuff. It somehow makes me lose faith in myself.
Used to be a porn addict and its been months since I quit. But I cant remove the guilt and shame I have for myself, so maybe this sexualization is only making it worse for me.
Used to be a porn addict and its been months since I quit. But I cant remove the guilt and shame I have for myself, so maybe this sexualization is only making it worse for me.
This is a lot more informing of where your head’s at and how/why you feel this way than your original post implies.
I say this as an alcoholic who was not aware of just how much alcohol pervades culture until I got sober.
Because you’re an addict in recovery, you are more likely to see it and take note of it being egregious whereas previously you probably didn’t really notice/accepted it as normal.
The sexualization of so many things in our culture didn’t change, you did, and that’s important to keep in mind.
Best of luck in your continued recovery, from one addict to another.
Okay, but most of the male characters look like this:
Why ruin a good game for the so called" male gaze" or “sex sells” thing? why?
… because of the ‘sells’ part? Game publishers aren’t in business to make good games, they’re there to make money.
That photo is also, and still “the male gaze”
Most straight males have no interest in those abs, I assure you.
someone in another comment described “power fantasy” and perhaps that words it better.
Eh… maybe? Doesn’t appeal to me, but I suppose it might to some.
It’s interesting that people will find issue with sex appeal and unrealistic body proportions in fantasy media but are fine with everything else unrealistic about fantasy. I think the real issue is the unrealistic expectations people put on themselves and others because they can’t separate fantasy from reality.
I will never be as buff and chiseled as batman.
I also hate that the word “unrealistic” keeps coming up about character bodies when so many are literally real people that got body scanned.
It’s a if people can’t fathom that different body types exist from their own.
My issue is that it’s shoved in where it’s not needed. Sexy characters where appropriate makes sense. Random panty shots in an action scene don’t.
Yeah I agree with you there, if it’s random it takes you out of the story. At least let me know what I’m getting into from the start.
That pantyshot tendency I think is a greater Anime thing than a video game thing.
But if we are talking a fighting game like Street Fighter or something: those are like Luchadore and Professional wrestling. Those are costumes and the sex appeal is usually the point.
But then you have games like Nier that just have lingerie dolls as main characters.
Appropriate sexiness is extremely hard to pin down.
To be fair, the creator of Nier Automata stated he specifically designed 2B so that attractive girls would cosplay as her.
Was that the guy who tweeted that he’d noticed that there were many rude pictures of 2B on the internet and it was hard to keep track of them all so he wanted someone to just send him a zip file every week?
Appropriate being incredibly subjective doesn’t help.
Some of the most appropriate I can think of are Bayonetta and Faye Valentine (from Cowboy Bebop).
People don’t just accept everything unrealistic about fantasy though, you can find plenty of complaints about inconsistencies in world building. Having completely fictional aspects like magic or dragons that work by specific rules within the narrative isn’t the same as taking real world creatures and hypersexualising them.
I am talking about sexualization and pornification.
Too much of those is very common in games, and they contribute nothing to the fantasy game / story.
Not saying that beautiful characters are bad, but semi naked characters with unrealistic beauty which both have nothing to do with the game at all is terrible, very terriole.
You did talk about unrealistic beauty as well.
And as for why, the answer is simple. For every person like you that strongly dislikes it, there are probably 9 gamers that prefer it this way and buy games that do it. Which of course results in about 9 out of 10 games including it. (numbers made up to illustrate point). There really isn’t anything wrong with that. If art had to appeal to everyone, there would be no art. You are just unfortunate that your taste is in the minority so there is less content matching your preferences.
I am struggling to accept what you just said, but it does make sense.
If it was frown upon, then such dirty designs wouldnt have existed.Its unfortunate that because I refuse to accept this pornification, I have become in the “minority”
At the same time, there definitely are tons of games that avoid needless sexualization. Is the issue that there are games you enjoy that has this issue (or would enjoy if it didn’t)? You mentioned action games above. Are you able to find alternatives that suit your preferences?
Or is the issue that these simply exist and are at odds with your morals?
both to be honest. Its hard to find games I like that also dont have sexualization. I avoid sexualization because of many reasons. Including my belief that its harmful and inappropriate.
Let me first say that I do respect your preferences and opinion on them being innapropriate, even if I don’t share these opinions.
But I have to push back a little on why do you believe they are harmful? That’s quite an accusation, and one that contradicts existing research.
Its unfortunate that because I refuse to accept this pornification, I have become in the “minority”
Well said. Strong agree.
But… Quiet needs sunlight on her bare skin to live, so an almost naked sniper makes perfect sense! Think about women’s health!!
/s
I consider myself pretty jaded and cynical when it comes to developers pulling that kind of stuff. As long as they keep it somewhat subtle and low-key I can ignore it and move on.
But recently ( and no, I don’t know how this happened) I discovered that for a very long time, I’ve apparently owned Final Fantasy XV Royal edition on XBox. I don’t remember ever buying it, it’s never been in my “purchases list”. But as I was scrolling through a “deals” list, I noticed that it sayd owned, so I said fuck it and installed it.
Well, let’s just say that as soon as Cindy appears, I’m not jaded and cynical anymore. I’m just thinking “holy shit this is just shameless…”
I have kinda realized that this stuff is everywhere, not just in games and the “female gaze” is just as unrealistic in portraying men, it just isn’t (as much) sexual. Read any romance book aimed at women and you know what I mean. There are very few men who can live up to being a hot billionaire werewolf!
Jokes aside, even “reasonable” standards are still something only like 5-10% of men could live up to. Even in lesbian and gay romance books you will find strange and unrealistic standards.
Humans just love dreaming about having a hotty in bed… Probably better if we don’t encourage it, but catering to people’s appetite sells better than selling something healthy… Ask any food industry.
It is because people make stuff mostly to make money or to make their own fantasies come “true”. Hardly anyone out there is making media for “educational” purpose and where everything is realistic and proportional.
Hell that’s just real life, we consume media to escape “realistic and proportional” because that’s just ordinary and boring!
Look, if this was in a romance novel, then it would make sense, you go watch porn and expect the actors to look humble, makes no sense.
But if it was in everyday media, like how its the case right now, then I believe this becomes an issue, a big issue.
spoiler
(I copy pasted my comment from a previous thread)
A lot of games have romance options for various characters. The witcher had optional side quests to hook up with characters, which reflected similar scenarios in the books. Skyrim lets you marry and have children.
In “Satisfactory” the main character (The Pioneer) is dressed head to toe in a sort of spacesuit/coveralls/work boots combo. You can sort of tell that there might be a woman inside the suit.
Most men don’t have hips like that.
This is true. To be fair, time spent looking at the pioneer is time not spent expanding the factory so I dont pay much attention.
For me the problem here is that the only characters that are sexualised are women. If the game is sexual, then just add the beautiful naked guys. I am sure that this move will double the audience (i am the audience).
In a lot of games the men are not exactly realisticly sized either. They aren’t often as sexualized as the women, but most are max 15% body fat and shredded to the point that they’d need steroids in real life.
i miss 70s and 80s male sexualization
Dummy thicc Solid Snakes clapping cheeks come to mind.
That Marvel wannabe Overwatch video game puts women in tons of skimpy outfits but those men’s asses and chests are on display as well in skintight outfits.
“It’s like I’m wearing nothing at all.”
…stupid sexy Flanders.
the difference is that the bodybuilder aesthetic isn’t usually what women are into. Nothing inherently wrong with it of course but it’s still built for the male gaze. If you ask a gym buff IRL about it they’ll tell you most people who notice their physique are men. The shredded video game dude can instead be thought of as a signifier of masculinity and sometimes as a fantasy for men to project themselves into while playing.
I don’t think the washboard abs and boulder shoulders would disappear entirely if male characters were designed more for the female gaze, but we’d probably see some more dad bods and smaller dudes too. Hades comes to mind as an example.
Hades characters are not what i would consider “dad bods” or “smaller dudes”. They almost all have V tapers, visible abs, and a low body fat percentage. The biggest thing in hades for the female gaze IMO is more attention to costume/outfit design.
There are possibly more relevant examples than Hades, it was just the first that came to mind. It is not a complete departure from typical male character design, don’t get me wrong, but I do think there’s a greater variety than most games - Hypnos, Sisyphus, Orpheus, Icarus, Apollo, Hephaestus, and Narcissus are who I’m thinking of more specifically. The general character style does still lean on muscular definition (and they’re generally still pretty unrealistic bodies for irl humans) but there’s more room for a variety of builds and not everyone is portrayed as particularly strong or lean. You are correct that a lot of it comes down to outfit design, but that is still part of the overall character design and it does still feel like a step outside the norm.
I always hate looking at pictures of dudes who are roided to the eyes and almost dangerously dehydrated; it just looks painful like I could poke them and they’d bruise.
Hey Baldurs Gate, we sexualise everyone.
Op is just mad they like muscle mommy Karlach, I mean we all do
As a guy, I never understand what women find attractive about men. My partners in the past have tried to explain it to me, but when I pointed out other examples it’s always “no, not like that.” There must be some qualities I’m blind to.
I think it’s a self selecting problem as well, since so many game developers are men, and we make what we know and understand. If there was more women designers, I’m sure we would get more hot guys, and maybe not even notice.
Maybe you are too straight to find men attractive, and those games are really made just for “male gaze”. I dont think people will find hot guys hot, if they are not into them.
I think it’s more like, there’s things that men find attractive, and things women find attractive, in both men and women. Right now even the men are designed for men
And then there’s the rare case of Marvel Rival Captain America’s Summer Skin.
women and men are sexualized in all sorts of media, unrealistically. and folks love it and folks also hate it, often the same folks who hate their gender being sexualized but love it when it’s done to the gender they are attracted to.
why do you care so much about this to the point it is causing you self-negativity? do you like enjoy it and think you shouldn’t?
As someone raised evangelical, this was me before realizing my honest attempt to live and breathe the Bible were incredibly self-destructive. When your life is ruled by guilt and shame, you end up despising the things that make you human.
Because I believe its not ethical.
Its enough how dark the porn industry is, and this sexualization only makes me remember the terrible crimes committed there.
Not to mention how it also affects our expectations for the other gender. (even if subtly)
Some people think eating meat is unethical. Those people often stop eating meat. You could follow your beliefs and seek games with less sexualization.
Of course, but this practice is common, making it hard to just seek out porn-free games
Look for more indie developers. There are thousands of games out there without porn.
ok so any sexualization of anyone ever in media isn’t ethical?
There are counter examples
BG3 is a fabulous one. Asterion is sultry and seductive. Raphael is sexy as hell, and so is his succubus. TBH there was a lot of male nudity and sexiness.
Meanwhile, Karlach and Laezel are just badasses. Never once did I feel that squick from them being overly sexualized.
This doesnt make it okay. Its still bad, and makes me disgusted. Just because they reversed the gender that this applies to doesnt change it.
Let me clarify; I don’t think they used the characters primarily as eye candy, or fell into problematic tropes. All of them just exude charisma.
Have you seen the incels? They have nervous breakdowns over peach fuzz.
I just saw that post to lol
What is peach fuzz, and there is an incel community in the fediverse out of all places?
How come I didnt hear about any of this, I have been using piefed for 2 whole years (including lurking without an account)
Peach fuzz is what the short almost invisible hair on skin is called. Like the short hairs on peaches.
A few years ago when the first images for Horizon: Forbidden West were released they were supposed to demonstrate the superior graphical fidelity by showing (amongst other things) the peach fuzz in the face of the female lead.
Idiots thought it was a beard as if they had never been close enough to a woman to see them.
Oh I get it now. 👍️
One of my favorite games of all time is Neir Automata and I don’t admit that to normies because it just makes me look like a fucking pervert because of how oversexualized 2B and A2 are.
It genuinely distracts from a beautiful story. It makes it less impactful.
I found the constant almost upskirt shots to be distracting tbh. I thought they were kinda cool at first from an animation stand point but that feeling wore off pretty quick. I think it would have been better if they kept shots like that to a minimum, it would make the times it does happen stand out a lot more.
I agree with you, there is also a game that I really really like the story of. But for some reason most women characters have to look sexy and the men characters look modest and humble (there are some sexy looking men too, but they are uncommon).
I feel like a hypocrite and a loser.
I don’t think you’re a loser, you have a valid point. It is a genuine issue. Check out this fucked up shit.I would prefer equality over stifling content, however. Put the men in skimpy outfits and give them jiggle physics. Optionally make it possible to tone it down.
Im sorta surprised games don’t do something like this. Have an option for male and female clothing levels in the game. I feel like the coding would not be massive and suddenly you can bring in horndogs of every persuasion.
Coding would be simple, the art wouldn’t. You would have to make multiple clothing assets for each character/clothing set. It would be expensive and there is no evidence it would help sell more games
most games already have that. although I guess for the main character but there are so many versions of the main character you would think npcs would be able to make it the same. im thinking like cyberpunk here not witcher.
The playable character (PC) is the focus of attention and therefore gets disproportionate effort put into it. There is usually only 1, maybe 2-3 of them so making a 100 outfits for each PC probably means making a 100 outfits, maybe 300 in the absolute worst case.
If I remember correctly, a game like GTA San Andreas had around 300 different NPCs. So making just one second outfit for each (toggle, not slider) is extra 300 outfits. For most games, the effort is better spent either adding more outfits for players or more NPC types to improve variety (more gamers care about that than NPC sexualization). Or just bigger map, or more missions, etc. Of course it depends on the type of game.
yeah but the npc outfits and the main character can be the same.
In some games they can be the same, and in some they are. But in many games, that doesn’t make sense. Maybe the NPC has a role, e.g. a police officer needs to wear a police uniform. Or maybe the NPC has a personality that the clothes help express. An innocent religious girl will not wear revealing outfit and a rebellious daring one probably will. Taking that away with a slider could really deform what the game is trying to express. Especially if NPCs don’t get enough screen time, their looks are important to convey their character.
PS: There is also a technical limitation. It’s not just artist effort that focuses on PCs. They clothing of playable character will often be more complex. Perhaps it is more detailed. Perhaps it can be combined (different top, bottom, accesories). Perhaps it deforms around character creation sliders. Perhaps it has physics enabled. All of this is extra load on the GPU and in many games is simplified for NPCs. So giving NPCs PC outfits may kill performance. If I again bring up GTA SA as an example (because I know a lot about how the game works under the hood), the main character CJ is the only one that has clothing handled separately from the player model. For most NPCs, their clothes are part of the NPC asset and can’t be swapped as that would take extra effort and resources.
Now non of this means it is impossible, but for most games, it is just not worth it.
yeah that is why I mentioned im thinking along the lines of games like cyberpunk than witcher. where the main character has a lot of options. I mean it already seems like there are sales to be made from games with a lot of character customization options. it definately is a draw to begin with.
Saints row had breast and package modifiers for your character.
yeah im thinking options of nude to victorian.
