I’ve always been in that weird space of apparently hella attractive to some and then the complete polar opposite to others, so I’ve experienced both.
[With shitty people] there’s the creepy favouritism, where I’m singled out and expected to be the sexual fantasy and they’re willing to try and manipulate me into getting it. And then on the other side of the coin, there’s the performative cruelty to make sure everyone in the vicinity can see just how unattractive this person finds me.
Either way, if I have to interact with these people, they’re going to make my life difficult.
“Consider themselves” is an interesting phrase. I know there are women (and others) who think of themselves as objectively unattractive, but I think the majority of us simply recognize the way we are treated by others. There are times I think of myself as pretty or cute, but I recognize that being fat makes me considered unattractive by societal standards.
Anyway, as a result of those standards, I have never been approached by a man. I have had relationships with men, but I’ve always been the initiator, including online. And I’ve been told on lemmy that I’m clearly wrong because all women are drowning in attention from men. Which is just another way of saying people like me aren’t really women.
Tried Online-Dating? There you will be approached by men for sure.
I’m fat and usually wearing a mask so even if my face is nice the fat overrides it and one thing I find annoying is if I compliment men they will always immediately look me up and down, write me off, and then be pissed I complimented them because they don’t want to fuck me. “…thaaanks” they go. Like it’s an insult my fat ass complimented them. Women just appreciate my compliments (there’s been a few who didn’t but it’s much much muuuuch rarer). Let me fucking compliment your watch without thinking I’m hitting on you you dingus!!!
You sure they werent just looking for cameras?
Cause any time a woman approaches me in public (which isnt very often, before i sound like some bragging fool), especially if its to say something nice/complimentary, my immediate thought is someones trying to record my reaction to put on some tiktok bullshit video.
I dont even register their appearance, I just quickly look for the Camera, mutter something quietly, and get the fuck away as quick as I can.
Not tryin to say assholes don’t exist, there is an overabundance of assholes in the world afterall.
It’s not a look of suspicion. It’s a look a lot of women will know. “Is this person worth my time” sort of look. “Do I consider this person attractive enough to consider human”. I’m not articulating this well. And the response isn’t bewilderment, it’s disgust.
I’ve had people say nice things to me when I was younger only to laugh in my face when I thanked them so I do know what that’s like.
I can help since I used to be fat! There are a lot of misogynists out there and they don’t make the effort to hide it around women they don’t want to fuck. Either we’re invisible or we’re the punching bag.
Some are obviously irritated at my presence. Like, sorry for existing. I’m just your supervisor, so I have to teach you shit for you to grow and make more money.
I love being older because i can give compliments - nice shirt, cool glasses, etc.- and they just say thank you and don’t assume I’m flirting. It’s more just human to human. That’s my perception anyway.
I stopped doing performative femininity gradually about 18 years ago … I stopped using makeup, wearing clothes that showed off my body, uncomfortable shoes, cut my hair short.
It was like putting on an invisibility cloak. It’s been a long time since a man told me I should smile more, and outside of Asia I don’t get men hitting on me, offering me drinks, etc.
With less of the expected gender signifiers, I don’t think I look more ugly, I’m just not signalling anything to men.
The flipside is that in winter, when I’ve got layers on, some women have thought I’m a man when I go to the toilet. Which is fucking stupid, but nudges me closer to an Enby identity, which feels right much of the time these days.
I’m not sure but over the past 18 years the dynamic has changed in general. Even if you were to doll up, most men wouldn’t say anything, since now everybody has a camera in their pocket amd a social media account. So the threat of getting your life ruined over a miss-guided approach is real for men.
It really hasn’t changed much at all. Men still approach women they find attractive in a variety of ways.
/looks sideways in mild autism
uhhhhhhhhh that’s never seemed like a great idea for a variety of reasons 😅
How often is a misguided approach really ruining men’s lives though? I’m kinda struggling to imagine an approach to giving a compliment or asking someone out that can be polite, respectful, and well-intended, but still go so off the rails as to wind up on social media and ruin a guy’s life
Doesn’t matter how often it happens, the fear can be there.
Take violence for an example. Violent crime has steadily fallen since 1993, yet people seem more scared of it than ever with the 24/7 news doom and gloom cycle’s “if it bleeds it leads” paradigm. Moreover most violent crime by strangers is male on male, most often when women are attacked it’s someone they know, friends, family, partner, yet still women seem more scared and distrusting than ever of an unknown man (while often still assuming the ones more likely to actually do something are “one of the good ones” no less).
Basically, often fears don’t line up with reality. Like, I’m scared of flying, apparently I’m dumb for that, but idgaf, “flying still scary.”
It isn’t a very realistic scenario - you are completely correct.
Instead what is happening is that sometime around 2005, women complaining about men hitting on them online reached critical mass. The modal woman who might come across these complaints online would agree in solidarity, or else at least not disagree, as to not undermine her lived experience. Hence, the message being spread consistently online was that all women hate being approached at all times, and you are a bad person if you do it.
This message then spread to teens and young men on the internet - many of them trying to find their footing in the dating world, and seeking advice on the internet that they might be too nervous to ask for in real life.
And at the same time, social anxiety has been steadily increasing among young people due to decreased human connection, driven by smartphone use. Tell a random 20 year old to go to their local park and strike up a conversation with a stranger for no reason except that they are at the same park, and they’ll look at you like you just told them to assassinate the prime minister of Czechoslovakia - not only are they sure it is a bad idea, but they are pretty sure it is impossible, since Czechoslovakia hasnt been a country for quite some time now.
So these factors combine. They believe that even approaching a woman already makes them a bad person. Then layer on top social anxiety that makes talking to strangers already horrifying. And the brain comes up with a scenario that justifies the fear: You are a bad person if you approach a woman - you’re a bad person just for thinking about it - so if you actually did such a fucked up thing, it would definitely get recorded and posted online. Everyone would know what a fucked up person you are, you’d probably get MeToo’d, and sent to jail for sexual assault. Better never talk to anyone, just to be safe.
Damn, that’s quite the thought spiral. Like, I can see how the train of thought gets there eventually, but holy cow. There are guys out here who give negative fucks and openly treat women horribly - leering, rude comments, groping, etc. Someone going “hey, your dress looks nice!” or “hey, if you’re ever interested in coffee or a drink, here’s my number” and not being weird about it is a completely different thing.
Right. And unfortunately, the spiral doesn’t have to be as extreme as described above in order to get a guy to not make a move. Instead it could be as simple as “Hmm, I’d like to talk to her, but I heard online that some women find it annoying… I don’t want to be annoying, so…” And if the general cultural consensus is that women dislike being approached as a rule, then we would expect guys who are courteous and pro-social to follow the rule, while guys who don’t care about those things to break it.
And at the same time, social anxiety has been steadily increasing among young people due to decreased human connection, driven by smartphone use. Tell a random 20 year old to go to their local park and strike up a conversation with a stranger for no reason except that they are at the same park, and they’ll look at you like you just told them to assassinate the prime minister of Czechoslovakia - not only are they sure it is a bad idea, but they are pretty sure it is impossible, since Czechoslovakia hasnt been a country for quite some time now.
So these factors combine. They believe that even approaching a woman already makes them a bad person. Then layer on top social anxiety that makes talking to strangers already horrifying. And the brain comes up with a scenario that justifies the fear: You are a bad person if you approach a woman - you’re a bad person just for thinking about it - so if you actually did such a fucked up thing, it would definitely get recorded and posted online. Everyone would know what a fucked up person you are, you’d probably get MeToo’d, and sent to jail for sexual assault. Better never talk to anyone, just to be safe.
Damn that was a bit too close to home for comfort. However I’m closer to 40’s than 20’s xD
I see myself as a shy introvert and I’d rather avoid social interactions if I can, as I feel I’m bothering the other person(s). So approaching a woman randomly… Yeah the second quoted paragraphe summarise how the experience would feel.
That’s why I liked dating apps years ago, before it (apparently) went to shit (I stopped now that I have a partner): clear background and expectations, minimised misunderstanding.
They believe that even approaching a woman *already* makes them a bad person. Then layer on top social anxiety that makes talking to strangers already horrifying. And the brain comes up with a scenario that *justifies* the fear: You *are* a bad person if you approach a woman - you’re a bad person just for thinking about it - so if you actually *did* such a fucked up thing, it would *definitely* get recorded and posted online. Everyone would *know* what a fucked up person you are, you’d probably get MeToo’d, and sent to jail for sexual assault. Better never talk to anyone, just to be safe.
Damn, we reinvented Catholicism!
I would say that’s true, except for the idiots with no self awareness or conception of consequences. Those guys will always be a problem
“life ruined”? Normal flirting is sometimes unwelcome but should not be offensive. Someone would have to be acting very much the fool to get blowback from a “misguided approach”.
One guy told me I was so ugly my face would make a train take a dirt road. Men don’t realize how poorly it reflects on themselves to be so cruel.
I hope you said thank you, Mr. dirt road.
But that would be an awful comeback? The train is still preferring the dirt road.
The train is still
…avoiding the one and hitting the other.
Right… I get it. But it’s an awful comeback.
“Not even a train would hit you.” “Thank you, Mr. person a train would hit.”
“Not even a gorilla would fuck you.” “Thank you, I think a gorilla would be willing to fuck you.”
Generally hoping someone gets hit by a train or fucked by a gorilla would be fitting, but not in this situation because it only means your reply to their insult is insulting them slightly less than they just insulted you.
“You are so hideously repulsive that if you tried to shoot yourself the gun would jam, because not even a bullet would be willing to touch you.”
“Thank you, you are some level less hideously repulsive than that, because a bullet would be willing to touch you. BURN! HA!”
Was it you?
I’m just trying to help you up your comeback game, no need for being upset.
You may stop trying.
I was thinking if the train hit this guy, it’d be the end of that lineage
a train will … change … the dirt road
I’m not on the blocklist 😭
I’m honestly grateful that my appearance repels creepy men but welcomes queer folk
Now that I present more queer with my head shaved and some of my clothing choices, men are more forward about sexualizing other women around me. Thinking I’ll join in or agree. I do internally, because women are generally quite attractive, but it’s weird to be treated like one of the boys sometimes lol
Dag, I’ve been guilty of this, with female coworkers I know are lesbians. Is that weird? To be like “check out the girl over there in the green top”?
Just to put it into context, saying “oh, she’s cute … your type?” or similar, that would be ok to me.
To use a RL example I had of what not to say:
“See that woman over there?”
*me, confused because there are many women around*
“That’s the sort of woman who walks in a room and all eyes are on her. She’s just beautiful, and everyone wants to be with her. She looks like sex on legs, seeing her has made my whole day better.”
Said by a short bald guy, who is married with 3 kids … I eventually worked out he was talking about a woman who was in her early 20s and just having a friendly chat with work friends. She wasn’t angling for attention in any way, and the guy I was having lunch with was just openly ogling her.
It varies person to person, in my experience. Some straight dudes are also uncomfortable with this “guy talk”. And some bi and gay chicks will do it so much it makes me uncomfortable lol
Pansexual woman here. The closest I’ve gotten to this kind of talk was gushing about Professor Brian Cox’s smile to a (gay male) friend who loves documentaries as much as I do.
For real though
Yeah, talk nerdy to me, baby
Straight guy here. Would definitely make me uncomfortable.
I don’t think so, you’re just sharing something with someone you know has the same interests. I doubt you’d start catcalling together.
Other men don’t really realize that men have different tastes.
I’m not really ugly, but I’m not conventionally attractive either, and it’s hard to get men who are super into me to realize that most men aren’t. A lot of dudes who think I am cute have it in their heads I live this easy life being showered with gifts by suitors.
Ha, same. I have always called it “minority attractive” because most guys would not be into me, but there is an enthusiastic subset who are.
I don’t think I was ever ugly enough to lose the beauty privilege though, if that makes sense. The bar is not set that high. What I am now is older, though, which starts to work the same way. It gets more difficult to get hired, people don’t see you as much. Lower on the totem pole of priority. I’m ok with it, had sort of a duck-to-swan progression already, back to duck is ok.
Whenever I start to feel bad for losing my youthful looks (and for gaining weight since then), I think back to what it was like being a skinny 20 year old. Yeah, no, I’m okay with being ignored. It’s nice to walk down the street without random cars honking at me.
100%
Every time these sorts of questions get posted about xyz attractiveness and people respond saying they are or aren’t attractive, I’m always like “I wanna know what this person looks like”. Not in, like, a horny way - but just for my own edification to know where they are coming from.
So when you made this comment, I clicked on your profile on the offchance you had a picture of yourself.
“Porno artist”.
YES! My curiosity will be satisfied!!
Scrolls down
…
scrolls some more
…
Goddammit, it’s just Resident Evil cartoon porn
I am confused. You’re assuming porno artists mostly draw themselves…?
I think self-portaiture is an art, apparently
I think I know of maybe one porno artist that draws herself? It’s not common. You’d have to be comfortable doxxing yourself to an increasingly puritan internet, for one
No, I mean, like, photography. Which seems pretty common, honestly. Sure, you’re doxxing yourself - but maybe you’re into that?
You know that meme of the guy leaning back during gaming and then leaning forward once the game get intense? This is me with this post.
Like it might just be the autism but in general I think I get indifference or disinterest. There are definitely men who just don’t like me but I assume it’s not because they think I’m ugly. At least I hope not lol. Still, that’s very much a them problem 🤷♀️
I don’t think I’ve experienced outright cruelty at least none that impacted me. I don’t flirt or shoot my shot really so that might be the main reason why I’m not experiencing anything too negative.
