Therapist: Start with a story
Disney: No
Therapist: Then how did Palpatine return?
Disney: …Somehow!
Therapist: you see, this is what we would call an irrational belief.
Disney: “The power of Fortnite is beyond your comprehension.”
Palpatine returned through clones and Sith magic, explained at the end of the story
The character Poe Dameron knows nothing about Force magic, which is why he says “somehow.” He is working from limited information and is not an “author voice” to the audience.
All of Oscar Isaac’s acting talent cannot hide his disgust as he delivers that line. It really is something.
I think it would be very weird if Oscar Isaac
A) did not know that characters with limited perspectives exist, as an actor, especially since limited perspectives are often key drivers of plot elements in every type of story. For instance, none of Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet happens at all without similar lack of information from characters, and actors tend to know about those plays.
And
B) was unaware of shaky dialogue in literally every Star Wars media ever, and the fact that pulpy dialogue like this is a signature element of Star Wars.
I also kind of find it weird that this line got memed into being the ur-example of “Sequels Suck” by supposed fans of Star Wars, a series well known for its brand-specific dialogue choices, which may or may not have originally been intentional, but definitely is now.
Its not like it is the only example. The sequel trilogy has plenty of other annoyances just like the prequels and originals do. The problem for many is that palp’s death validates the story and actions of the characters. He lives and a new order pops up, then much of what happened was pointless. To me, picking on that line is a way of showing how much of a clusterfuck the story of the sequels is. They are amazing in visuals, acting, etc. Somewhat the polar opposite of their counterparts.
He didn’t live. He died. Then he was coming back to life and was killed again. Palpatine couldn’t even leave his chair at the time of Rise.
People can disagree on the story and that’s fine, - totally respect just “I didn’t like the story,” that’s very legitimate - just wanted to clarify that plot element
That’s a lot of words to gaslight us into thinking that line isn’t just a lazy handwave and a terrible line.
It’s not gaslighting if it’s all true
TBF, if he started with TPM it would’ve been the first and the last Star Wars movie
“Don’t worry it will get good four movies in. Like the Friday The 13th series.”
-Jorge Lucus
There are lots of reasons to tell a story non-linearly. Plenty of cinematic sins to lay at George Lucas’ feet, but this isn’t one of them.
Plenty of cinematic sins to lay at George Lucas’ feet.
There are lots of reasons to tell a story non-linearly,
but this isn’t one of them.
Don’t mind me, just rearranging your comment to be more cinematic. This one’s on the house.
On the house, this one is.
Rearranging a comment, more cinematic is becomes. Mind me, you don’t.
At george lucas’ feet, plenty of cinematic sins to lay.
Lots of reasons to tell a story non-linearly, there are, But this isn’t one of them.
Don’t mind me, To be more cinematic, just rearranging your comment. On the house this one is.
Yeah, it’s not like he made the first prequel in history.
In medias res is a narrative technique possibly as old as storytelling. Used in Hamlet and The Oddessy just for starters.
Don’t give George Lucas more credit than he deserves. “Episode IV” wasn’t even added to the opening crawl until it was re-released.
And even then, the “IV” was meant to evoke the feeling of being dropped into an ongoing narrative, as opposed to actually being part of one. Lucas hadn’t actually set anything in stone. In 1978, he was still going with the idea that Vader wasn’t Luke’s father. That reveal in Empire Strikes Back is the most influential movie retcon of all time.
It was a huge deal when ‘Empire…’ came out and it had ‘Episode V’ in the title. iirc
For further clarity for people unfamiliar - in medias res is not starting in the middle of the story exactly, but rather not beginning at the beginning of everything. Star Wars begins in medias res without a prequel or sequel trilogy at all - famously beginning with a Rebel ship being fired upon.
Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark starts in media res as well, as a related example.
In medias res literally translates as “in the middle of things”
Yes. That is also true.
Did he start in the middle or at the end. I feel like the last three movies that came out were not part of his plan but I don’t really know much about it.
IIRC, he did intend to make 3 trilogies, but after making the prequels, he wanted to actually spend time with his kids and knew that making a sequel trilogy would consume another decade of his life.
He did “consult” on episode VII, but apparently he only had like one or two meetings and they used basically none of his ideas and didn’t take any more input from him.
There’s a bunch of info out there about what his trilogy would have been, and it’s a shame because it actually sounds so much cooler than what we got. If George had helmed the next trilogy but had maybe a co-writer/co-director to reign him in a bit like he had on the OG trilogy, we might have had something truly wild.
EDIT: This video has some really interesting details about what could have been.
Let this be a lesson that your dumb kids will only destroy your dreams and ruin your legacy.
George Lucas lost his magic after the OT, and the Prequels were horrible movies that were only “saved” by the Clone Wars animated series.
George’s problem is he is unable or unwilling to “kill his darlings,” as writers say.
I’d argue that the prequels were excellent, Shakespearian-level stories that pioneered the VFX of their time, but suffered from sometimes ridiculous dialogue and a director that wasn’t good at working with actors (especially inexperienced actors).
If George had a writing/directing partner to help smooth stuff out and still had his ex-wife in the editing room, the prequels would probably have been damn near masterpieces.
Phantom Menace is a story that never needed to be told that does nothing to advance the plot of the series.
Attack of the Clones had no real plot.
Revenge of the Sith was… okay. Would’ve made a decent middle movie in the Prequel trilogy that we should have gotten, which began with the Clone Wars, because there is no reason whatsoever to see Anakin as a child.
I know lots of people weren’t even alive when TPM came out and thus have childhood memories of the prequel trilogy and give them more slack, but they are in no way Shakespearean masterpieces.
They don’t need to be. Star Wars is pulpy fun and that’s awesome. But they need to be coherent, and the Prequels are miles worse than any other Star Wars content ever made (not counting holiday special).
oh idk, if his kids grew up and continued his legacy we’d probably be better off. this was the work of corporations that existed before him and their greed.
I figured 4 is middle-ish, but yeah, I’ve seen interviews where he talks about how Star Wars is “the story of Anakin Skywalker”, so the prequels make sense, but I think the next trilogy was just executives with dollar signs in their eyes.
the story of Anakin Skywalker”
This was just him advertising for the Prequels.
Slightly tangential, but this is the version I’d have loved.
Also there are enough tell tale signs in the original Star Wars (ie IV) that Vader wasn’t originally Anakin (4k77 even shows him as Lord Darth Vader in the credits, and Obi Wan calls him Darth). Lucas likes to make things up as he goes along :)
God how can a dude with such great ideas so frequently have such batshit terrible ideas lol
The below is about broadcast TV. Yes, this makes me feel old.
I tend to agree. The first episode of most series is a waste with lots of character introductions. Most people that stay watching catch a random episode and start from there anyway. The first episode won’t loop for like 6 months and people figure it out.
Plus the first is often the demo episode and the rest are made months or years later once they have funding.
Also, the producers figure out a lot. For example, check out “Corner Gas”, where the first filmed episode was the second aired. They made a large number of adjustments after creating that episode.
Film an intro episode and then don’t air it.
Corner gas doesn’t really need character introductions. That’s the whole point of the show being set in a bodunk town that’s the same as every other bodunk town.
I was listening to the podcast “Under the Influence” and they had an episode that talked about a radio ad for the first Star Wars movie. I never heard of that before. The radio ad was played like a serial episode with cliffhangers. Notably, the first episode of the ad run made it sound like you had already missed an episode, so that tracks here too.
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I think Christopher Nolan would fit much better at the director. He loves his nonlinear story telling.
shrugs I liked it
Same
Reminds me of how Force Fiction started in the middle of the story, too.
“Say ‘it’s not fair’ again, I dare you! I double-dare you, banthafucker! Say ‘it’s not fair’ one more goddamn time!” - Master Jules Windu
Kurt Vonnegut starts his at the end. Why not the middle? A story doesn’t have to be entirely novel and shocking. We always know the good guys are going to win (eventually) and other clues allow our brains to fill in the blanks about what sort of things are upcoming.
