I think you’re misunderstanding the Cheney’s support.
Dick and Liz (and Bush and others) aren’t supporting Harris because she aligns with them or they like her. They’re doing it because trump is so heinous, literally anything is better than a second trump term.
They don’t want Harris; they’ve just reached the conclusion trump will destroy the GOP. And they’re right.
As Lindsay Graham said in 2016:
If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed…and we will deserve it.
I don’t think Bush weighed in this election season, did he? I was pretty sure he sat this one out so far as endorsements and public statements of support go.
Bush’s lack of endorsement makes him somehow worse than he already was, in light of practically everyone else coming out against trump, and the bar is so low, Satan is tripping over it.
I don’t disagree, but I also don’t think he should be forced to weigh in. He is a former President, I get this, but that doesn’t obligate him to share how he votes or to re-inject himself or his family back into politics, which he left long enough ago.
That explains why they support her, it doesn’t explain why Harris is bragging about that endorsement and campaigning with him. Especially when her main message is saving democracy and he’s the guy that actually stole an election.
Especially when her main message is saving democracy
This is exactly the reason. Because saving democracy right now means getting every possible vote, and the Cheneys can sway some old, Reagan/Bush republicans who reflexively vote R without really paying attention. If even the Cheneys support Harris, they might take notice. It’s an enemy-of-my-enemy situation.
Thats the same situation that stein is in, and the wider pro-palestinian movement are in with white supremacists like David Duke. Yes they support your movement but have completely different worldview and in most cases opposing values and motives. The right thing to do in that case is what stein, and most of the pro-palestinian movement have done and call these people out for the trash they ,denounce them, and remove them from the gathering spaces. Granted Cheney is a different case then David Duke and it’s up to each group to decide where to draw the line. I personally would draw it away from a plutocratic war criminal like Cheney.
If not for moral principle then for strategic reasons, having those people around discredits you. Yeah the pro-palestinian group could gain a couple white supremacists but they lose far more support among the great majority of people who despise white supremacists. Yeah the dems could gain some of those Romney Republicans , but they’re also alienating the people who hate Cheney and everything he represents. That ratio is obviously less one sided then the Nazi, anti-Nazi ratio, hopefully, but it’s still a chance your taking on Cheney. I wouldn’t take that since Cheneys popularity and legacy have tanked in value in the last decade.
I don’t give af what their reasons are Dick Cheney is one of the worst people on the planet. It is easy not to stand by him. But I’m fine with voting third party this point. I don’t want to be allies with liberals who will throw anyone under the bus to retain comfort.
This whole topic is the same people who make excuses for why the Cheney endorsements are good (or at a minimum irrelevant) saying how David Duke’s endorsement should make people supporting Jill Stein think twice.
Jill Stein is a grifter and a spoiler working to advance conservative causes, but the hypocrisy here is breathtaking.
There’s a very clear difference: Stein is a well-documented, intentional spoiler who’s funding comes primarily from Republican mega-donors and Russian interests, and who recently said out loud her purpose isn’t to advance her party but exclusively to block Harris.
Her track record makes that endorsement poignant.
If she was sincere and didn’t already align with fascist interests, we wouldn’t care what Nazis say about her.
Horrible person endorses candidate I like: “you can help who endorses you, it doesn’t mean anything about their values”. Horrible person endorses candidate I don’t like: “see, if you support them you’re in bed with [the KKK/war criminals]”.
If she was sincere and didn’t already align with fascist interests, we wouldn’t care what Nazis say about her.
If Harris was a progressive peacenik who didn’t seem open to aligning with neocon foreign policy, no one would think anything of welcoming Cheney into her campaign.
It’s the same exact reasoning, just reformulated for whether you like the candidate in question.
This isn’t about like or dislike. Again, it’s about her track record. If Duke had come out to support Cornel West, we’d have collectively shrugged. I’d still strongly recommend nobody vote for him because he’s a spoiler, too, and I don’t like him as a candidate, but a Nazi endorsement for him would not make any difference.
The entire reason Duke supporting Stein matters is because of her history supporting fascists. How is this difficult to grasp?
This is literally the argument for why the Cheneys endorsements raise concerns for Harris. Her history and current reticence to break from Biden (whose foreign policy is not obviously different from Cheney’s) and more directly criticize Israel indicates they might, at least to some degree, have some issues they agree on. If the Cheneys endorsed Cornel West, we’d also have collectively shrugged, but Harris has been explicitly tacking to the right and supporting a destructive war in the Middle East.
No, it isn’t. The Cheneys aren’t supporting Harris, but rejecting trump and trying to pull more moderate conservatives away from him. Not towards Harris – their platforms are not aligned at all – but to try to bring the GOP away from self-immolation.
Again,their motives are purely self-interest.
On the other hand, Duke is saying he supports Stein because her interests align with his. Huge ass difference.
And anyone who doesn’t agree with the echo chamber, is a “Trumper” or works “for the Russians” or my personal fav, “posting/commenting in bad faith.” lol
Funny words from someone with a proven history of trolling, lack of civility, and spamming according to the modlog. But please, enlighten us all about how you engage in good faith posting and commenting.
Yeah having his daughter who defended all of his bad actions on your events isn’t standing by him and he going on about how honored she is. Liberals will literally work with fascists. Malcolm X was correct long ago. Vote for who you want best of luck.
No, this is a situation where the dems need to get as many votes as possible, and you’re underestimating the voting power of old people.
The dems are accepting the Cheney’s support specifically to wake up some moderate, old conservatives who would otherwise vote reflexively for trump simply because of the R after his name.
This isn’t an ideological move, but a purely political one. Politics is not always tasteful. Ideological purity is useless against actual, real-life fascism, and it’s a strategic move. Reality isn’t always rainbows and unicorns.
It isn’t ideological purity. The only people who give up ground is Dems that is why the GOP can dog walk them while going on about space lazers and weather control. There should be some limits when it comes to people like Dick Cheney getting a pass. I’ve done the whole vote for the lesser evil. I’m good. I’ll do what I can locally and vote down ballot for in local elections.
When Trump can come out call Harris for adopting his policies and she has nothing to say back. I’m good. I don’t support right-wingers even with (D) next to their name.
genocide jill is perfectly fine with genocides except for the one that’s hot in the news right now.
by the way, those people are who are being genocided in the genocide hot in the news right now? they support kamala harris.
you don’t care about genocide. especially that one. because if you did you would be voting for her. it’s either you hate israel or you just refuse to vote for a black woman or you want to vote for trump or some combination of the 3.
This is not giving up ground. The only people looking at this and thinking it means Harris somehow supports the Cheneys rather than the other way round are ideological purists. Nobody sane is giving the Cheneys a pass. They’re slime and we all know it. The only thing this tells us is that he’s* so unabashedly heinous that even old school Republicans can’t stomach him. It’s not a difficult concept.
“I don’t like that one of the worst people in the world is advocating for a candidate, and I’m not going tk vote for that candidate because of this- even though *the other candidates is objectively far worse than the guy I hate”
Is how I interpret that.
Throw your vote away if you want. Just don’t whine here when trump wins because of you.
You literally just posted a topic about Trump beating Harris in a battleground state poll. And another about good news for Trump. Along with a stream of other posts that seems curated to talk about bad signs for Harris.
You don’t just post random political news from across a range of topics, you post stuff that talks about Harris being weak.
If you were confident Harris would win, why would it be interesting that a poll showed her down in a crucial state? Why would it be interesting that fewer Democrats are registered to vote? She’s supposedly got it in the bag, so none of these things would matter.
I think Trump winning is a very real possibility. It looks a lot more likely than 2020 and that was a razor thin victory.
A reasonable political observer does not have enough information to make a prediction either way at this point. It’s not even a “probably Harris will win, but Trump still has a shot”, it’s an actual toss up.
Trump’s rise is literally because of Dems lack of action results for poor and working class people. Harris is closer to him on Policy than anyone else. Even Trump said so at the debate, and she is still building the wall. You guys don’t have Trump as much as you claim.
Harris literally continuing some of his policies, you folks don’t hate Trump as much as you put on. Dems gave up in my state so he is going to win it either way next.
You know damn well there are some states that he is going to win for free. I’m in one of them. Yes Dems have given up on some states as well due to seeing it as a waste of resources. Plus she is openly courting Republicans and I don’t support right-wingers. Maybe you do.
I think you’re misunderstanding the Cheney’s support.
Dick and Liz (and Bush and others) aren’t supporting Harris because she aligns with them or they like her. They’re doing it because trump is so heinous, literally anything is better than a second trump term.
They don’t want Harris; they’ve just reached the conclusion trump will destroy the GOP. And they’re right.
As Lindsay Graham said in 2016:
This is self-preservation.
I don’t think Bush weighed in this election season, did he? I was pretty sure he sat this one out so far as endorsements and public statements of support go.
You’re right, I misremembered an article I read last month:
# 200 aides of former Republicans, including both Bush presidents, endorse Kamala Harris
Bush’s lack of endorsement makes him somehow worse than he already was, in light of practically everyone else coming out against trump, and the bar is so low, Satan is tripping over it.
I don’t disagree, but I also don’t think he should be forced to weigh in. He is a former President, I get this, but that doesn’t obligate him to share how he votes or to re-inject himself or his family back into politics, which he left long enough ago.
Good point.
That explains why they support her, it doesn’t explain why Harris is bragging about that endorsement and campaigning with him. Especially when her main message is saving democracy and he’s the guy that actually stole an election.
This is exactly the reason. Because saving democracy right now means getting every possible vote, and the Cheneys can sway some old, Reagan/Bush republicans who reflexively vote R without really paying attention. If even the Cheneys support Harris, they might take notice. It’s an enemy-of-my-enemy situation.
Thats the same situation that stein is in, and the wider pro-palestinian movement are in with white supremacists like David Duke. Yes they support your movement but have completely different worldview and in most cases opposing values and motives. The right thing to do in that case is what stein, and most of the pro-palestinian movement have done and call these people out for the trash they ,denounce them, and remove them from the gathering spaces. Granted Cheney is a different case then David Duke and it’s up to each group to decide where to draw the line. I personally would draw it away from a plutocratic war criminal like Cheney.
If not for moral principle then for strategic reasons, having those people around discredits you. Yeah the pro-palestinian group could gain a couple white supremacists but they lose far more support among the great majority of people who despise white supremacists. Yeah the dems could gain some of those Romney Republicans , but they’re also alienating the people who hate Cheney and everything he represents. That ratio is obviously less one sided then the Nazi, anti-Nazi ratio, hopefully, but it’s still a chance your taking on Cheney. I wouldn’t take that since Cheneys popularity and legacy have tanked in value in the last decade.
I don’t give af what their reasons are Dick Cheney is one of the worst people on the planet. It is easy not to stand by him. But I’m fine with voting third party this point. I don’t want to be allies with liberals who will throw anyone under the bus to retain comfort.
Nobody is ‘standing by him’. Hitler liked dogs. Am I supposed to hate dogs because Hitler ‘stood by’ them?
I couldn’t give less of a fuck who the Cheneys support. Their opinions don’t factor into my choices at all.
This whole topic is the same people who make excuses for why the Cheney endorsements are good (or at a minimum irrelevant) saying how David Duke’s endorsement should make people supporting Jill Stein think twice.
Jill Stein is a grifter and a spoiler working to advance conservative causes, but the hypocrisy here is breathtaking.
There’s a very clear difference: Stein is a well-documented, intentional spoiler who’s funding comes primarily from Republican mega-donors and Russian interests, and who recently said out loud her purpose isn’t to advance her party but exclusively to block Harris.
Her track record makes that endorsement poignant.
If she was sincere and didn’t already align with fascist interests, we wouldn’t care what Nazis say about her.
LOL, no there isn’t.
Horrible person endorses candidate I like: “you can help who endorses you, it doesn’t mean anything about their values”. Horrible person endorses candidate I don’t like: “see, if you support them you’re in bed with [the KKK/war criminals]”.
If Harris was a progressive peacenik who didn’t seem open to aligning with neocon foreign policy, no one would think anything of welcoming Cheney into her campaign.
It’s the same exact reasoning, just reformulated for whether you like the candidate in question.
This isn’t about like or dislike. Again, it’s about her track record. If Duke had come out to support Cornel West, we’d have collectively shrugged. I’d still strongly recommend nobody vote for him because he’s a spoiler, too, and I don’t like him as a candidate, but a Nazi endorsement for him would not make any difference.
The entire reason Duke supporting Stein matters is because of her history supporting fascists. How is this difficult to grasp?
This is literally the argument for why the Cheneys endorsements raise concerns for Harris. Her history and current reticence to break from Biden (whose foreign policy is not obviously different from Cheney’s) and more directly criticize Israel indicates they might, at least to some degree, have some issues they agree on. If the Cheneys endorsed Cornel West, we’d also have collectively shrugged, but Harris has been explicitly tacking to the right and supporting a destructive war in the Middle East.
No, it isn’t. The Cheneys aren’t supporting Harris, but rejecting trump and trying to pull more moderate conservatives away from him. Not towards Harris – their platforms are not aligned at all – but to try to bring the GOP away from self-immolation.
Again,their motives are purely self-interest.
On the other hand, Duke is saying he supports Stein because her interests align with his. Huge ass difference.
e: formatting
Yep! Insane hypocrisy around these parts.
And anyone who doesn’t agree with the echo chamber, is a “Trumper” or works “for the Russians” or my personal fav, “posting/commenting in bad faith.” lol
Funny words from someone with a proven history of trolling, lack of civility, and spamming according to the modlog. But please, enlighten us all about how you engage in good faith posting and commenting.
Yeah having his daughter who defended all of his bad actions on your events isn’t standing by him and he going on about how honored she is. Liberals will literally work with fascists. Malcolm X was correct long ago. Vote for who you want best of luck.
No, this is a situation where the dems need to get as many votes as possible, and you’re underestimating the voting power of old people.
The dems are accepting the Cheney’s support specifically to wake up some moderate, old conservatives who would otherwise vote reflexively for trump simply because of the R after his name.
This isn’t an ideological move, but a purely political one. Politics is not always tasteful. Ideological purity is useless against actual, real-life fascism, and it’s a strategic move. Reality isn’t always rainbows and unicorns.
It isn’t ideological purity. The only people who give up ground is Dems that is why the GOP can dog walk them while going on about space lazers and weather control. There should be some limits when it comes to people like Dick Cheney getting a pass. I’ve done the whole vote for the lesser evil. I’m good. I’ll do what I can locally and vote down ballot for in local elections.
When Trump can come out call Harris for adopting his policies and she has nothing to say back. I’m good. I don’t support right-wingers even with (D) next to their name.
We all know who you really want in power. Transparent as fucking glass.
A person who isn’t backing genocide and with an agenda for working class and poor people. Pretty lowbar.
genocide jill is perfectly fine with genocides except for the one that’s hot in the news right now.
by the way, those people are who are being genocided in the genocide hot in the news right now? they support kamala harris.
you don’t care about genocide. especially that one. because if you did you would be voting for her. it’s either you hate israel or you just refuse to vote for a black woman or you want to vote for trump or some combination of the 3.
And who is that?
This is not giving up ground. The only people looking at this and thinking it means Harris somehow supports the Cheneys rather than the other way round are ideological purists. Nobody sane is giving the Cheneys a pass. They’re slime and we all know it. The only thing this tells us is that he’s* so unabashedly heinous that even old school Republicans can’t stomach him. It’s not a difficult concept.
e: *
“I don’t like that one of the worst people in the world is advocating for a candidate, and I’m not going tk vote for that candidate because of this- even though *the other candidates is objectively far worse than the guy I hate”
Is how I interpret that.
Throw your vote away if you want. Just don’t whine here when trump wins because of you.
Trump’s not gonna win tho.
You don’t know that.
Do you honestly think he is going to win?
This election hinges on a hair. Everyone who’s not got a bridge to sell you is saying that, and you think you can predict the outcome?
I’m not buying any bridges. I don’t know who’s going to win, and neither do you or anyone else.
Yes, I am predicting the outcome: Trump won’t win.
Feel free to save my post for proof.
Lol like you’ll be here after the election
There’s a resort in Arizona that once bought a bridge. Maybe you can sell them another…
Edit: I think you know it’s too close to call which is why you’re doing your damndest to get any one to not vote for Harris.
You literally just posted a topic about Trump beating Harris in a battleground state poll. And another about good news for Trump. Along with a stream of other posts that seems curated to talk about bad signs for Harris.
So? It’s political news. And it doesn’t change my mind: I think Trump will lose.
Do you think Trump will win?
You don’t just post random political news from across a range of topics, you post stuff that talks about Harris being weak.
If you were confident Harris would win, why would it be interesting that a poll showed her down in a crucial state? Why would it be interesting that fewer Democrats are registered to vote? She’s supposedly got it in the bag, so none of these things would matter.
I think Trump winning is a very real possibility. It looks a lot more likely than 2020 and that was a razor thin victory.
I post political news articles that I find interesting. Has nothing to do with the fact that I think Trump will lose.
So you said him winning is a possibility. But do you think he will win? I don’t.
A reasonable political observer does not have enough information to make a prediction either way at this point. It’s not even a “probably Harris will win, but Trump still has a shot”, it’s an actual toss up.
Trump’s rise is literally because of Dems lack of action results for poor and working class people. Harris is closer to him on Policy than anyone else. Even Trump said so at the debate, and she is still building the wall. You guys don’t have Trump as much as you claim.
Correct!
Donald Trump thanks you for your support.
Harris literally continuing some of his policies, you folks don’t hate Trump as much as you put on. Dems gave up in my state so he is going to win it either way next.
And you hate him so much you’re voting to help him win. I’m doing more than you are.
That’s a cop out and you know it.
You know damn well there are some states that he is going to win for free. I’m in one of them. Yes Dems have given up on some states as well due to seeing it as a waste of resources. Plus she is openly courting Republicans and I don’t support right-wingers. Maybe you do.