That submarine imploding near the Titanic will never be not funny. Especially since the guy who designed it believed in the “move fast and break things” nonsense.
Every person on board paid a pretty penny to be on that sub, so no pity from me either (except perhaps for the teenager who was reportedly terrified to go on, but did it to please his rich prick father).
So you are failing your own morality test, and handwaving it away.
How convenient.
I thought history was quite clear, time and time again, it has been shown that once you declare a group of persons as “subhuman” bad shit start happening.
You’ve decided that there’s something about these people that makes them less than human. That they’re “other” in some meaningful way, which means you assume some fundamental difference between you and them that allows them to commit evil, and that means you can or do not.
But that’s Harry Potter innate morality bullshit, dehumanizing people is pretty fucking evil.
I’ve seen some interesting YT videos about the engineering behind the sub. Turns out, that sub was a ticking time bomb, and many people had warned about it. The controller thing was perfectly fine, but the walls were not.
Goes through the photos to get an idea where it failed (towards one end). Then looks at manufacturing photos (milling down carbon fiber in a pressure vessel is crazy!) then looks at strain guage graphs.
Yeah that’s the one I just watched it through. Thanks for the link. Absolutely reckless behaviour from the owner after the previous crack event on dive 80 to go down again. Just so many bad choices.
Fascinating that they had the data to tell them it wasn’t safe and just ploughed ahead without examining it.
The funny thing is, the news articles got stuck on the least significant (but funny) detail. The main emphasis should have been on the fact that lots of people had noticed serious problems with the design, but one stubborn guy decided to roll the dice anyway. Well, you reap what you sow.
Thanks. I did remember that US subs used a off the shelf controller but couldn’t think of the specific example.
Additionally with an off the shelf controller it’s really easy to pack a replacement one. (And building a controller yourself - that one will always be worse and heavier than an off the shelf one plus replacement)
The crazy thing really is how they ignored everyone on warnings how not to construct a hull.
The army uses Xbox controllers because the recruits are already familiar with them and don’t need training on a new and expensive custom controller. It’s more user friendly and reduces input errors.
Using off the shelf consumer electronics for safety critical applications is fine.
In this case the controller is engineered to work well for a resonable time.
Ok, the controller is not waterproof, but if you get water inside a sub, you have larger problems than moving it, and you have other ways of triggering an emergency blow.
honestly I would prefer to drive a DIY custom built machine using a popular off the shelf gamepad, that way I could buy a handful of controllers and keep them in the cockpit as backups.
Given the option between making my own controller vs buying a dozen Xbox controllers, yeah gonna go with Xbox. Nothing I make will get anywhere near as good.
it’s the same functionality but cheaper and easier to use, it’s such a good idea the navy has been trying to switch everything they can to off the shelf stuff.
And to add on that R&D thing.
It’s supposed to be move fast and break things to learn what things are not working good enought so you can deliver a finished not-breaking-stuff-thing.
Probably? Someone posted it shortly after the actual oceangate situation happened, and it went straight to my downloads folder, lol. No idea what the original source was.
The photo of the shitty Logitech controller will never not make me laugh… Anyone who has ever handled a controller before knows those things are absolute garbage lol
This is a ridiculous statement. If a 40 year old can’t tell their parents no to a trip, that’s a problem with the 40 year old. At 19, even though you’re legally an adult, you’re probably still very reliant on your parents, don’t have a very high paying job, and likely don’t have your own place.
“officially” is an ambigious term here. Legally, 18 years old in the US. “completely” an adult? depends on a variety of factors. Most people under 25 aren’t allowed to rent a car by themselves in the US, so that brings up the age in regards to that. Regardless, I think this is a tangential question.
I think what you mean to ask, is at what age does a person make decisions for themselves completely, as we’re talking about this 19 year old being pressured into going into the sub. Well that depends on the situation of the person in question which is basically what I said in my previous post. Does this person live on their own? Provide income for themselves? How is their relationship with their parents? How confident is the person in themselves?
At 19 years old, many people are still reliant on their parents for many things, and also living with them. Arguments are way more impactful in this situation because you can’t just go home and leave, or you can’t ignore certain things because they may be ongoing or consistent problems. There’s probably already arguments happening in this relationship about how each person wants to handle different things. This may be a situation where the 19 year old thought, “I don’t want to cause a big argument over this” so they give in.
e: and I forgot where I was, i like that you are trying to say this 19 year old millionaire spawn has a low paying job, with no place.
You should at least reread things before commenting to not waste your time my previous post with added bold, and brackets:
At 19, even though you’re legally an adult, you’re probably still very reliant on your parents, [implied you] don’t have a very high paying job, and likely don’t have your own place.
We don’t know if this 19 year old has a high paying job. I doubt it since many people don’t have a degree at this age.
That submarine imploding near the Titanic will never be not funny. Especially since the guy who designed it believed in the “move fast and break things” nonsense.
Every person on board paid a pretty penny to be on that sub, so no pity from me either (except perhaps for the teenager who was reportedly terrified to go on, but did it to please his rich prick father).
It’s the teenager that makes it sad.
Removed by mod
Subhuman?
Really? You are invoking Nazi expressions, and expect to be winning?
I think they’re subhuman because they were in a submarine.
I am becalmed, lost to nothing,
warm weather, and holocaust…
Well for me humans need to have morality, compassion, they need to care for others, the bourgeoisie don’t do that, so they aren’t humans for me
So you are failing your own morality test, and handwaving it away.
How convenient.
I thought history was quite clear, time and time again, it has been shown that once you declare a group of persons as “subhuman” bad shit start happening.
How can you opress and exploit BILLIONS of workers and not want bad shit to happen to you?
The biggest failure in stopping evil is realizing it’s plain old humans that create evil.
So target your vitriol at the people exploiting. A teenager has not even had the opportunity to do that yet if they wanted to.
What?
You’ve decided that there’s something about these people that makes them less than human. That they’re “other” in some meaningful way, which means you assume some fundamental difference between you and them that allows them to commit evil, and that means you can or do not.
But that’s Harry Potter innate morality bullshit, dehumanizing people is pretty fucking evil.
I’ve seen some interesting YT videos about the engineering behind the sub. Turns out, that sub was a ticking time bomb, and many people had warned about it. The controller thing was perfectly fine, but the walls were not.
Their crack detector thing actually detected a problem on the previous trip… Just nobody checked it…
What the fuck? That’s mental. I’d never heard that little nugget before.
Pretty sure it’s this one: https://youtu.be/FAAQVntpk00
Goes through the photos to get an idea where it failed (towards one end). Then looks at manufacturing photos (milling down carbon fiber in a pressure vessel is crazy!) then looks at strain guage graphs.
Yeah that’s the one I just watched it through. Thanks for the link. Absolutely reckless behaviour from the owner after the previous crack event on dive 80 to go down again. Just so many bad choices.
Fascinating that they had the data to tell them it wasn’t safe and just ploughed ahead without examining it.
OMG, that’s just insane. It’s not an overstatement to say that he had it coming.
Using off the shelf consumer electronics in safety critical applications is never OK.
I would argue that the consumer electronics had more testing and engineering experience behind them than the structural parts of the sub…
The funny thing is, the news articles got stuck on the least significant (but funny) detail. The main emphasis should have been on the fact that lots of people had noticed serious problems with the design, but one stubborn guy decided to roll the dice anyway. Well, you reap what you sow.
Of course it is. The US Navy uses Xbox controllers for their photonic masts, which we can all agree is pretty safety critical.
Thanks. I did remember that US subs used a off the shelf controller but couldn’t think of the specific example.
Additionally with an off the shelf controller it’s really easy to pack a replacement one. (And building a controller yourself - that one will always be worse and heavier than an off the shelf one plus replacement)
The crazy thing really is how they ignored everyone on warnings how not to construct a hull.
World you get into a plane that was controlled with one of those?
The army uses Xbox controllers because the recruits are already familiar with them and don’t need training on a new and expensive custom controller. It’s more user friendly and reduces input errors.
No, but not due to reliability.
Rather because an Xbox controller is not designed to fly a real aircraft.
I would however go on a boat that was controlled with an Xbox controller, less speed and one less direction to worry about.
Using off the shelf consumer electronics for safety critical applications is fine.
In this case the controller is engineered to work well for a resonable time.
Ok, the controller is not waterproof, but if you get water inside a sub, you have larger problems than moving it, and you have other ways of triggering an emergency blow.
honestly I would prefer to drive a DIY custom built machine using a popular off the shelf gamepad, that way I could buy a handful of controllers and keep them in the cockpit as backups.
Given the option between making my own controller vs buying a dozen Xbox controllers, yeah gonna go with Xbox. Nothing I make will get anywhere near as good.
Off the shelf consumer electronics were not the problem.
it’s the same functionality but cheaper and easier to use, it’s such a good idea the navy has been trying to switch everything they can to off the shelf stuff.
So is Boeing
idk if Boeing is, but either way the issues they’ve had have been software and maintenance issues.
Got it, hiring Ivan from nearest kolhoz to kolhoz submarine into existance.
Moving fast and breaking things can be a great R&D philosophy…when health and safety aren’t a concern or have been addressed.
And to add on that R&D thing. It’s supposed to be move fast and break things to learn what things are not working good enought so you can deliver a finished not-breaking-stuff-thing.
Break things not humans
Is this AI?
No this is Patrick
Nice.
Probably? Someone posted it shortly after the actual oceangate situation happened, and it went straight to my downloads folder, lol. No idea what the original source was.
The photo of the shitty Logitech controller will never not make me laugh… Anyone who has ever handled a controller before knows those things are absolute garbage lol
And he did break things
He was 19, he was an adult and able to refuse if he wanted.
When you were 19, did you have much of a say if your parents wanted to take you on a trip? Legally, sure. But in reality?
Bro you could say that about any age at that point.
This is a ridiculous statement. If a 40 year old can’t tell their parents no to a trip, that’s a problem with the 40 year old. At 19, even though you’re legally an adult, you’re probably still very reliant on your parents, don’t have a very high paying job, and likely don’t have your own place.
So what age are you officially an adult? when do you come off the apron strings? when is it OK to finally treat someone like an adult?
If a 19 year old cant tell their parents no, TO A TRIP, that is a problem with them.
e: and I forgot where I was, i like that you are trying to say this 19 year old millionaire spawn has a low paying job, with no place.
“officially” is an ambigious term here. Legally, 18 years old in the US. “completely” an adult? depends on a variety of factors. Most people under 25 aren’t allowed to rent a car by themselves in the US, so that brings up the age in regards to that. Regardless, I think this is a tangential question.
I think what you mean to ask, is at what age does a person make decisions for themselves completely, as we’re talking about this 19 year old being pressured into going into the sub. Well that depends on the situation of the person in question which is basically what I said in my previous post. Does this person live on their own? Provide income for themselves? How is their relationship with their parents? How confident is the person in themselves?
At 19 years old, many people are still reliant on their parents for many things, and also living with them. Arguments are way more impactful in this situation because you can’t just go home and leave, or you can’t ignore certain things because they may be ongoing or consistent problems. There’s probably already arguments happening in this relationship about how each person wants to handle different things. This may be a situation where the 19 year old thought, “I don’t want to cause a big argument over this” so they give in.
You should at least reread things before commenting to not waste your time my previous post with added bold, and brackets:
We don’t know if this 19 year old has a high paying job. I doubt it since many people don’t have a degree at this age.
Having the legal right and feeling in any way empowered to exercise that right are wildly different things.
so what age does he become an adult like the rest of us? 25? or when he is empowered enough?
“Ugh, it’ll probably be fine, and it’ll get my dad off my back.”