That might have worked then. Not so sure nowadays. The work ethic was different back then.
Edit: I didn’t realize the can of worms I opened up. Hopefully it stirs a little bit of constructive conversation. I realize I have an unpopular opinion here. That’s ok. I wish all of you a prosperous and content life. I’m not here to stir up hate. I simply expressed my opinion. I’ve learned a little about how passionate some of you are about this topic. I never thought I would start such a hornet’s nest.
Work ethic today is fine in places that aren’t spreading their people as thin as possible. There’s always going to be shitheads but for the most part when you see “poor work ethic” it’s because everyone’s burnt tf out and just doesn’t care any more.
Ok. I’ll bite. Even though I believe this conversation will go nowhere.
Differences I have seen in work ethic between the 90s and today:
Constantly complaining about being broke but refusing to work any overtime.
Refusing to do anything outside the scope of their job duties. Even if it’s something small and won’t take any extra time or energy off their current job duty.
Demanding or taking long breaks causing others to pick up their slack. And then acting like the victim.
Overly emotional about deadlines and jobs duties. Making decisions based on their feelings and not the job/project at hand.
People then would usually figure out solutions to problems without any supervision. Ingenuity was rewarded and favored. Today, people seem to prefer to be micro-managed. This could also be a change in employer culture as well.
Entitlement culture/attitude. More people today believe they are owed something without earning it. Hierarchical structures were more rigid, with clear distinctions between management and staff. Respect for authority was expected.
Employees were more likely to stay with one company for years or even decades, building loyalty and expertise within their organization.
I guess I could go on. And not all of this is due to employees, rather, management issues that have gotten worse over time. But I still believe the root cause is a negative change in people’s work ethic. This is obviously not all inclusive. These are just some examples of what I’ve noticed between now and then. I have been working full time since the 90s. Yes, it’s anecdotal. But you asked me. This is my opinion. It’s okay if people don’t agree with me. But I would find it hard to believe most people would disagree with all or some of these points especially if they have been working as long as I have.
wtf… so tired of being told i have no work ethic, when i probably work more than you ever had to at my age, for peanuts. I will never own a home. my company doesn’t give two fucks about me. I can’t even afford glasses, i can’t go to the doctor. but i should be kissing feet and never complaining? your mentality is what killed opportunity in my generation. like, “people prefer to be micromanaged?” how can you possibly think that
If people were payed more most of those problems would evaporate. There used to be a middle class in this country that made enough money to justify dealing with their boss’s bullshit expectations. Now everyone is getting the bare minimum and management wonders why they’re getting minimum effort. If you want people to have a better work ethic it has to be worth it for them. Dangle a fuckin carrot once in a while, you know?
If money was an issue, I would simply find a higher paying job. I’m not owed anything. I’m trying to do the best I can just like everybody else. I’ve never agreed 100% with what management does. I’m just happy to have a decent job that pays decently. I wasn’t handed this automatically. I worked my way up to it. I earned it.
I’m not saying you didn’t work to get where you are, but if you ignore completely the chance and luck you had, then you’re just arguing in bad faith.
Even more so if you can’t see that people entering the workforce now have less chances and need more luck to get where you feel you worked hard to get.
I didn’t downvote you even though I disagree with you.
All of the examples you gave of differences have a distinct difference between working in the 90s and now. In the 90s we did all of the things you cite aren’t happening today because it paid off with something better later. It could be a raise in pay, a promotion, or even just experience that could be leveraged at a future job earning more. It was also the time of the final Gen-X’ers entering the workforce, and there were far fewer of us than prior generations that age. This meant there was at least a form of scarcity of entry level workers so anyone that wanted a job could get one that would cover their basic bills. Employers would also train entry level people because there weren’t other options for bodies to do the jobs. We put up with being treated like crap in the hierarchy because we saw that if we worked the hierarchy we would rise. We took risks professionally that would be innovative or creative that created a great product for our employer that would frequently work out. If the professional risk didn’t pay off, we’d likely still be employed or at worst could get another job of near the same level without issue.
In short, we did all of those things in the 90s for the promise of a better tomorrow, and back then, there was one. Workers today know there isn’t a better tomorrow, likely only a worse one. So why should they take the same risks we did professionally if they are not only far less likely to benefit, and are in a much more precarious position with far higher debts (student loans) and far few resources (lack of savings or real estate ownership)?
I’ve heard that argument being made before. That people don’t think there is a better tomorrow. I suppose I could blame it partially on the doom scrolling people do daily on their phones. Personally speaking, I believe there are always opportunities and a better tomorrow.
I’ve heard that argument being made before. That people don’t think there is a better tomorrow. I suppose I could blame it partially on the doom scrolling people do daily on their phones.
A younger worker today can do zero doom scrolling and still see their 6 figure student loan debt statements every month. They can look at their take-home pay after subtracting their high living expenses then checking the cost of real estate to see that owning a home going to be perpetually out-of-reach. They can look at the last 4-5 years of their income and see that any appreciation going forward isn’t likely to change their situation.
Personally speaking, I believe there are always opportunities and a better tomorrow.
This is another change from the 90s to today. In the 90s it was a given that there are opportunities and a better tomorrow. We were raised with actual first hand experience of optimism in the working world. For today’s younger workers it has declined to a possibility of opportunities and a better tomorrow. Don’t discount Millennials that entered the workforce right as the Financial Crisis of 2007-2008 was starting. As young adults in the 90s as GenX, we had nothing like that. The worse we had was the dotcom bubble burst in 1999 or 2000, and even then it just meant finding another jump of which there were many. Gen Z saw Millennials trying to be successful do what we Gen X-ers did and failing (because the game had changed). Is it any wonder Gen Z isn’t even trying to play the old game when they see the game is now stacked against them?
I think you are mixing up cause and effect. Corporations stopped valuing their employees but expect the same kind of loyalty from when they used to actually pay enough. It’s normal for employees to feel demotivated and give less energy to a job that doesn’t respect them and is over eager to threaten and replace them.
You got it backwards though. The root cause is not the change in work ethic. The change in work ethic is the symptom. People have to get nitpicky about breaks and such and show no loyalty entirely because companies stopped being loyal to their employees. This can be demarcated with the death of the pension.
And not all of this is due to employees, rather, management issues that have gotten worse over time. But I still believe the root cause is a negative change in people’s work ethic.
Personally I’d say you made the exact opposite clear while throwing a lil blame at the management’s way so it wouldn’t sound as disconnected from reality. Beatings will continue until morale improves I guess.
Entitlement culture/attitude. More people today believe they are owed something without earning it. Hierarchical structures were more rigid, with clear distinctions between management and staff. Respect for authority was expected.
This is the most middle-manager shit I’ve ever read. “Kids these days don’t respect me!”
I’m not strictly speaking of the place I work for. I actually like my job. Not a fan of the management. My argument is that a lot of people’s work ethic has dwindled. Really all it does is punish their coworkers. You think the CEO or upper management cares about people’s feelings or how the job got done? I don’t. We’re all replaceable. I do the best I can with what I’m given. Complaining gets me nowhere
Again, what you’re saying doesn’t apply to the industry as a whole. Or maybe you’re just one of the folks who thinks Americans should adopt the 996 work ethic?
Small teams being allowed to do what they want can still give good results, but you aren’t going to see that at major companies. I almost solely play indie games by micro or solo dev teams.
You’re just wrong. Devs today work far more than those devs did. Devs today work insane hours. It’s nearly physically impossible to work more hours than devs do today.
It’s amazing what happens when management leave Devs alone to do actual work instead of calling SCRUM bullshit.
Goldeneye64 : 1997 JIRA : 2002
scrum: 1986
Scum: 3000BC
What happened to the agile movement?
Or anyone creative
That might have worked then. Not so sure nowadays. The work ethic was different back then.
Edit: I didn’t realize the can of worms I opened up. Hopefully it stirs a little bit of constructive conversation. I realize I have an unpopular opinion here. That’s ok. I wish all of you a prosperous and content life. I’m not here to stir up hate. I simply expressed my opinion. I’ve learned a little about how passionate some of you are about this topic. I never thought I would start such a hornet’s nest.
Work ethic today is fine in places that aren’t spreading their people as thin as possible. There’s always going to be shitheads but for the most part when you see “poor work ethic” it’s because everyone’s burnt tf out and just doesn’t care any more.
There’s some truth to this
People still create great shit when left to their own devices and properly cared for
Workers in the 90s are no different from any others
I was there in the 90s. Working full time. There was a noticeable difference in the work ethic from then to today.
I wonder if any incentives have changed in 35 years…
Nope, it’s Gen Y/Z who are the problem.
What kind of differences?
Ok. I’ll bite. Even though I believe this conversation will go nowhere.
Differences I have seen in work ethic between the 90s and today:
Constantly complaining about being broke but refusing to work any overtime.
Refusing to do anything outside the scope of their job duties. Even if it’s something small and won’t take any extra time or energy off their current job duty.
Demanding or taking long breaks causing others to pick up their slack. And then acting like the victim.
Overly emotional about deadlines and jobs duties. Making decisions based on their feelings and not the job/project at hand.
People then would usually figure out solutions to problems without any supervision. Ingenuity was rewarded and favored. Today, people seem to prefer to be micro-managed. This could also be a change in employer culture as well.
Entitlement culture/attitude. More people today believe they are owed something without earning it. Hierarchical structures were more rigid, with clear distinctions between management and staff. Respect for authority was expected.
Employees were more likely to stay with one company for years or even decades, building loyalty and expertise within their organization.
I guess I could go on. And not all of this is due to employees, rather, management issues that have gotten worse over time. But I still believe the root cause is a negative change in people’s work ethic. This is obviously not all inclusive. These are just some examples of what I’ve noticed between now and then. I have been working full time since the 90s. Yes, it’s anecdotal. But you asked me. This is my opinion. It’s okay if people don’t agree with me. But I would find it hard to believe most people would disagree with all or some of these points especially if they have been working as long as I have.
Not accepting shit from bosses isn’t bad work ethics. Corporations did it their fake personhood.
wtf… so tired of being told i have no work ethic, when i probably work more than you ever had to at my age, for peanuts. I will never own a home. my company doesn’t give two fucks about me. I can’t even afford glasses, i can’t go to the doctor. but i should be kissing feet and never complaining? your mentality is what killed opportunity in my generation. like, “people prefer to be micromanaged?” how can you possibly think that
If people were payed more most of those problems would evaporate. There used to be a middle class in this country that made enough money to justify dealing with their boss’s bullshit expectations. Now everyone is getting the bare minimum and management wonders why they’re getting minimum effort. If you want people to have a better work ethic it has to be worth it for them. Dangle a fuckin carrot once in a while, you know?
If money was an issue, I would simply find a higher paying job. I’m not owed anything. I’m trying to do the best I can just like everybody else. I’ve never agreed 100% with what management does. I’m just happy to have a decent job that pays decently. I wasn’t handed this automatically. I worked my way up to it. I earned it.
I’m not saying you didn’t work to get where you are, but if you ignore completely the chance and luck you had, then you’re just arguing in bad faith.
Even more so if you can’t see that people entering the workforce now have less chances and need more luck to get where you feel you worked hard to get.
I didn’t downvote you even though I disagree with you.
All of the examples you gave of differences have a distinct difference between working in the 90s and now. In the 90s we did all of the things you cite aren’t happening today because it paid off with something better later. It could be a raise in pay, a promotion, or even just experience that could be leveraged at a future job earning more. It was also the time of the final Gen-X’ers entering the workforce, and there were far fewer of us than prior generations that age. This meant there was at least a form of scarcity of entry level workers so anyone that wanted a job could get one that would cover their basic bills. Employers would also train entry level people because there weren’t other options for bodies to do the jobs. We put up with being treated like crap in the hierarchy because we saw that if we worked the hierarchy we would rise. We took risks professionally that would be innovative or creative that created a great product for our employer that would frequently work out. If the professional risk didn’t pay off, we’d likely still be employed or at worst could get another job of near the same level without issue.
In short, we did all of those things in the 90s for the promise of a better tomorrow, and back then, there was one. Workers today know there isn’t a better tomorrow, likely only a worse one. So why should they take the same risks we did professionally if they are not only far less likely to benefit, and are in a much more precarious position with far higher debts (student loans) and far few resources (lack of savings or real estate ownership)?
I’ve heard that argument being made before. That people don’t think there is a better tomorrow. I suppose I could blame it partially on the doom scrolling people do daily on their phones. Personally speaking, I believe there are always opportunities and a better tomorrow.
A younger worker today can do zero doom scrolling and still see their 6 figure student loan debt statements every month. They can look at their take-home pay after subtracting their high living expenses then checking the cost of real estate to see that owning a home going to be perpetually out-of-reach. They can look at the last 4-5 years of their income and see that any appreciation going forward isn’t likely to change their situation.
This is another change from the 90s to today. In the 90s it was a given that there are opportunities and a better tomorrow. We were raised with actual first hand experience of optimism in the working world. For today’s younger workers it has declined to a possibility of opportunities and a better tomorrow. Don’t discount Millennials that entered the workforce right as the Financial Crisis of 2007-2008 was starting. As young adults in the 90s as GenX, we had nothing like that. The worse we had was the dotcom bubble burst in 1999 or 2000, and even then it just meant finding another jump of which there were many. Gen Z saw Millennials trying to be successful do what we Gen X-ers did and failing (because the game had changed). Is it any wonder Gen Z isn’t even trying to play the old game when they see the game is now stacked against them?
I think you are mixing up cause and effect. Corporations stopped valuing their employees but expect the same kind of loyalty from when they used to actually pay enough. It’s normal for employees to feel demotivated and give less energy to a job that doesn’t respect them and is over eager to threaten and replace them.
I think I made that clear at the end of my above post
You got it backwards though. The root cause is not the change in work ethic. The change in work ethic is the symptom. People have to get nitpicky about breaks and such and show no loyalty entirely because companies stopped being loyal to their employees. This can be demarcated with the death of the pension.
Personally I’d say you made the exact opposite clear while throwing a lil blame at the management’s way so it wouldn’t sound as disconnected from reality. Beatings will continue until morale improves I guess.
If this is what you’re seeing, the problem isn’t the employees.
If you can say with a straight face that employees prefer to be micromanaged, that’s the biggest, brightest, blinding red flag I can even imagine.
If you’re seeing this, your company has a major issue.
This is the most middle-manager shit I’ve ever read. “Kids these days don’t respect me!”
You sound like a bit of an exhausting cunt mate…
You could open up a new business cleaning boots.
I don’t even know where to begin.
Its not my business but do you mind saying what industry you work or see this in?
I’ve noticed it in every industry I’ve ever worked in over three decades
Perhaps you could give an example? Maybe someone can relate to it.
Sounds like a problem with your company culture. I don’t think your description fits the industry as a whole.
I’m not strictly speaking of the place I work for. I actually like my job. Not a fan of the management. My argument is that a lot of people’s work ethic has dwindled. Really all it does is punish their coworkers. You think the CEO or upper management cares about people’s feelings or how the job got done? I don’t. We’re all replaceable. I do the best I can with what I’m given. Complaining gets me nowhere
Again, what you’re saying doesn’t apply to the industry as a whole. Or maybe you’re just one of the folks who thinks Americans should adopt the 996 work ethic?
This sounds like rose tinted glasses and a great example of why anecdotes/human memory aren’t reliable.
I did mention it was anecdotal. My memory hasn’t failed me. Yet
Yes. Which is why I said it’s an example of how anecdotes are unreliable.
It kinda just sounds like cool and interesting people don’t want to hang out with you. I wonder why.
I have a loving family and a decent job. I have everything I need. I can count the friends I have on one hand.
You could also afford to work on failed projects because houses and healthcare costed two acorns and a peanut.
Small teams being allowed to do what they want can still give good results, but you aren’t going to see that at major companies. I almost solely play indie games by micro or solo dev teams.
That’s a great point. I do support indie games when I enjoy them. Not a fan of the micro transaction slop that huge publishers are pushing
You’re just wrong. Devs today work far more than those devs did. Devs today work insane hours. It’s nearly physically impossible to work more hours than devs do today.
People have no work ethic these days, they won’t even work for the exposure anymore.
What are you talking about? They get plenty of exposure when they start up an OnlyFans on the side to make ends meet! /s
Did you forget the /s?
No this was a completely unironic old man “kids these days!” rant.