Donald Trump has no idea how to post bond in the fraud trial—and he’s absolutely losing it.

In just shy of a week, Donald Trump’s $454 million judgment from his New York bank fraud trial will become collectible, either by way of liquid cash or financial assets—and it has officially sent Trump into meltdown mode.

The notoriously sleep-deprived GOP presidential nominee spent the better part of Monday night shouting into the void about the massive, half-billion-dollar judgment and his apparent inability to pay it off, bemoaning being required to follow the law before being allowed to appeal the case.

“I would be forced to mortgage or sell Great Assets, perhaps at Fire Sale prices, and if and when I win the Appeal, they would be gone. Does that make sense? WITCH HUNT. ELECTION INTERFERENCE!” Trump posted Tuesday morning.

“I shouldn’t have to put up any money, being forced by the Corrupt Judge and AG, until the end of the appeal. That’s the way system works!” he added, forgetting that he’s being held to the same standards as every private citizen.

  • @halcyoncmdr
    link
    English
    1422 months ago

    From my understanding, it essentially ends up with bidding for assets to get to the amount needed. Whatever the resulting high bid ends up, is the amount for that asset. So if something is valued at $500M but sells for only $200M, it only counts as $200M toward the judgment. Basically, estimated value means nothing, only what someone actually pays for it.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        182 months ago

        So… What happens when it turns out he’s underwater on all his properties, and they sell for less than he owes on them?

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          72 months ago

          He defaults on the loans. If he owns a building, has a $500 M loan on it, and it gets sold via this process, he gets no money, unless the sale goes over what he owes for the judgement. But the loan is still in place and he still owes the $500 M.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        5
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        Not necessarily, but more of what someone is willing to pay at that specific moment. A lot can factor in. This being highly publicized, and with the notoriety of Trump and its assets, it can go in any unexpected direction.

        • ddh
          link
          fedilink
          English
          52 months ago

          That’s… market value

    • @givesomefucks
      link
      English
      56
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      So if something is valued at $500M but sells for only $200M, it only counts as $200M toward the judgment.

      Kind of less, he’s paying taxes on the sale too, because he’s still selling it even tho he doesnt get to keep the money.

      And when selling half a billion dollars of real estate, you’re going to pay a lot of taxes even in America.

      So the 200 million goes to the judgement, but he’s paying 20-40% percent in state/federal/local taxes. And it’s all gonna happen in the same calendar year while a shit ton of accountants are watching his every move.

      He’s going to end up having to sell a lot more than the judgement to pay his tax bill a year from now.

      And that’s not even getting into his loans.

      1. Value a building at 100 million when it’s worth 50

      2. Borrow 70 million on property.

      3. Sells for 40 and the bank needs 30 still.

      There’s no way out, even if the bank forgives the remaining 30, that still counts as taxable income for trump, compounding the first issue. And in that scenario, $0 is going to judgement and trump still loses the property and they move on to seizing the next on the list. He gets zero gain from the sale, but it’s still drives up taxable income for him personally

      trump could conceivably have a billion dollar gross income in 2024, and be completely broke with hundreds of millions due in tax.

      Which is just insane.

      • @ripcord
        link
        272 months ago

        There’s no way out

        I’ll believe it when I see it.

      • @ZoopZeZoop
        link
        122 months ago

        And yet, it is just. He has been screwing people over for decades to amass what he has, and it’s time he paid for his criminal (tax/loan/whatever fraud).

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        92 months ago

        That’s not quite right.

        If you buy something for 300m, with 200m in loans, and sell it for 250m, you pay the loan back first, and have 50m in losses. Your taxes go down.

        He only pays tax on gains.

        Remember the whole case is him inflating property value to get loans. Between the fire sale, and the bad loans, it’s very likely he has little to no equity. He could sell all he has and not have any money to pay the $500m (plus interest.) Which also means little to no tax burden.

        • @givesomefucks
          link
          English
          62 months ago

          Right…

          If he sells for less then he has a loan on, he still owes the money, and without the property as collateral, the lender is going to collect.

          If they forgive the debt, that counts as earnings and is taxed.

          So it would either force more sales to pay remaining loans, or it’s forgiven and taxable income goes up

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          62 months ago

          But if he bought it for cheap, and got a loan on the property after the fact, or realistically, he held them for long enough then leveraged their new worth for other things, and hasn’t paid any gains on the properties

      • @NotMyOldRedditName
        link
        52 months ago

        Its possible at a firesale value it could end up being a capital loss. There wouldn’t be any taxes then.

        But you’d need a legit appraisal to even know if it’s a loss, his appraisals are worthless

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          32 months ago

          You don’t need any appraisal. You only need to know the purchase price and the selling price. The difference between them is the gain or loss.

        • @givesomefucks
          link
          English
          -22 months ago

          By that logic no one has ever paid taxes selling a used car…

          • @Anamnesis
            link
            4
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            They haven’t. The buyer only pay sales tax, and the seller pays no tax at all. Except maybe crazy situations where it’s a collectible antique that’s worth way more now than when you bought it.

      • @ganksy
        link
        22 months ago

        There is absolutely no way in the universe that little weasel didn’t ask Elon for money over breakfast. No conceivable way.

      • @Zippy
        link
        12 months ago

        Well pay taxes if you sell at a profit. Hard to say if the value of his assets increased.

        • @givesomefucks
          link
          English
          -92 months ago

          No, it’s still taxes.

          If I buy a 50,000 car and sell it for 25000 2 years later, I’m still paying taxes.

          How do you not know that?

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            32 months ago

            The tax you pay is one the net gain, which is the amount realized less the base of the good (i.e., what you paid to acquire). I’m not a tax expert, and real estate can get really fucky with this stuff, but that’s my understanding of the fundamental rules for taxation.

            • @givesomefucks
              link
              English
              -62 months ago

              I’m not sure how to explain this any simpler.

              My apologies, but if I tried again I’d just be repeating what I’ve just said.

                • @givesomefucks
                  link
                  English
                  -52 months ago

                  The confusion is you think it’s a “gain” only if sold for more than you paid, which isn’t true.

                  When you sell a capital asset, the difference between the adjusted basis in the asset and the amount you realized from the sale is a capital gain or a capital loss. Generally, an asset’s basis is its cost to the owner, but if you received the asset as a gift or inheritance, refer to Publication 551, Basis of Assets for information about your basis. You have a capital gain if you sell the asset for more than your adjusted basis. You have a capital loss if you sell the asset for less than your adjusted basis. Losses from the sale of personal-use property, such as your home or car, aren’t tax deductible.

                  And having a loan doesn’t negate gains. It’s two separate things. Which is why this situation for trump is so crazy and his taxable income can balloon so much despite trump not getting any money.

                  I don’t think explaining more would help, but since you bothered to provide a link. I took the time to show you where you were confused.

                  • @[email protected]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    92 months ago

                    It seems the confusion is that you think whatever the total amount the item sells for is a “gain.” A gain is the profit - the difference between what you sell the asset for and your cost basis in the asset.

                    In your car example, the cost basis is 50000. If you then sell it for 10000, you then have a capital loss of 40000. You don’t pay taxes on the 10000 because it is not earned income and it is not a gain - it’s part of your original capital. And you obviously don’t pay taxes on the 40k loss. And since it is a car, you can’t even deduct the loss.

                    If you sell the car for 55000, then you have a gain of 5000 (the difference between your cost basis of 50000 and what you sold it for). You are taxed on the capital gain of 5000, not on the entire 55000.

          • @Zippy
            link
            12 months ago

            Considering I do that yearly you don’t pay taxes on 25,000 but only on profit. You will write off a percentage of a capitalized item like that per year. The only way you would pay taxes above what you have expenses is if somehow that 50,000 dollar car sells for more then 50,000. That is likely not happening.

    • 18-24-61-B-17-17-4
      link
      English
      302 months ago

      On the other side, what if some shady entity comes in and bids $500 million for something valued at $1 million so that Trump doesn’t have to sell all his shit, but then the shady entity will have Trump in their pocket as well?

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        412 months ago

        So this other side you speak of is different from how it currently is? Trump sold many properties to Russian nationals at inflated prices. That was why he’s already in their pockets. Nothing will change, he’s already in so many people’s pockets.

      • @halcyoncmdr
        link
        English
        142 months ago

        If that were the case, Trump would be able find someone he could use the asset as collateral for bond instead. Just like Chubb’s deal for the other judgment.

      • DMBFFF
        link
        42 months ago

        “Ten million for 72 hours with Melania, Ivanka, Tiffany, and Katie Britt: my associates will make videos—in case they’re needed.”

        • Pennomi
          link
          English
          22 months ago

          Honestly in a world of AI video generators, there’s no better time to be blackmailed by video.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      142 months ago

      Yup, and if the conservatives haven’t voluntarily bailed him out yet they’re probably not going to be charitable in valuing his broke ass brand.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        192 months ago

        None of the rich ones want to pony up that much for nothing and the poor ones have already spent what they had on his other legal costs and “merch”.

    • @Professorozone
      link
      102 months ago

      I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. Trump says Mar-a-lago is worth billions so it’s worth billions, right? I mean that’s how it’s worked for him up until now.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        152 months ago

        Except when he needs it to be worthless, then it becomes instantly worthless. He has magic Schrodinger buildings which are both the most valuable in the world and worthless at the same time. Or as we in the real world like to call it: fraud

    • @chiliedogg
      link
      42 months ago

      Trump being forced to sell off his properties for what people will pay for them in order to pay off the fine for fraudulently overvaluing those same properties is just so fucking delicious.