This week, Republican governors across the country escalated their conflict with the Biden administration over the southern border by invoking the same legal theory that slave states wielded to justify secession before the Civil War.
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, joined by 25 other GOP governors, now argues that the Biden administration has violated the federal government’s “compact” with the states—an abdication that justifies state usurpation of federal authority at the border.
This language embraces the Confederacy’s conception of the Constitution as a mere compact that states may exit when they feel it has been broken. It’s dangerous rhetoric that transcends partisan grandstanding. And as before, it’s being used to legitimize both nullification and dehumanization.
You know what happens when theories are tested and found out to be false?
They’re no longer used.
Republicans: “Since when??”
Ivermectin, creationism, abstinence policy on anything, trickle-down; were you thinking of any of those theories?
Even a single red state ‘leaving’ the US would crush their house majority and deprive them of two senators. No way it happens.
Stop, now I want it to happen
Even better, since they receive more federal money than they give, we’d be left with excess money that can be used for states that actually give a damn about their people.
Texas might be the one red state that’s not true for. They make a lot of money, it helps that they have oil.
But you forget that they only make that money as part of the US. If they were their own country they would have to replicate a lot of government institutions, with little experience or help from other countries.
It would be very expensive to put an embassy in every country around the world, or negotiate trade agreements. The UK is fucked after leaving the EU and they already had all the government infrastructure and relationships set up.
Texas is not a signatory of NAFTA, so they would literally be left out of North American trade. They’d end up at the level of Mexico in 20 years due to brain drain.
Lol true. It would be like the UK after Brexit but even worse,at leat in the beginning.
Yeah, but they know a Democratic majority in the Senate will have just enough Manchins to be effectively a Republican majority.
I love how you’re downvoted for saying something factually true. It’s so insanely frustrating how much in denial Americans are about Democrats being center-right.
I agree about the centrist part, but not because of Manchin.
Manchin isn’t some rotating villain conspiracy. He’s from fucking West Virginia. What are you expecting? Dems don’t vote in lockstep, and need more than the slimmest majority to legislate.
Republicans aren’t much different. It’s not like they’re legislating.
I mean, Manchin isn’t surprising when you realize where Dems sit on the political stage.
Though I’d argue Republicans have moved so far right that it is pure ignorance to pretend they’re only “not much different” even only on legislation.
If these GOP governors actually gave a shit about fixing the border, they would be pushing the GOP congress to unblock the border bill. But they want the crisis to fester so they can campaign on it.
Opportunist scum.
At this point Biden should stretch executive privilege and figure out how to check off as many boxes on the bill that he can. He’s already subverted Congress getting aid to Israel.
What’s the worst that can happen? They impeach him? They already are determined to at least give that show. I would love to see ComerPyle try to explain how they are impeaching him over increased border security.
Maybe Texas sues him. Okay Abbot, let’s see how you justify suing the administration for providing more border agents, more tech, more personnel and resources.
One could argue that the MAGAts in Congress have breached the covenant of 3 coequal branches of government. I would never say that any one branch should act unilaterally, or do so without potential consequence, but this is mad. They are not doing their job, they aren’t debating, and are actively throwing a tantrum like a child.
When I hear shit like this, it makes me think Sherman didn’t go far enough. He should’ve eradicated the South and given the land to the union. Slaveowners should’ve been arrested and stripped of their property rights. Southern states should’ve been dissolved and their governments reconstituted by the union.
The union should’ve crushed the south and occupied it like the US occupied Nazi Germany post-WWII.
I live in Tennessee and I’ve had 2 coworkers tell me, independently of one another, that Nazis got a “raw deal” and that, and I quote, “their opinions are just as relevant” as Democrat opinions.
These are guys who go to church and like to brag about how über Christian they are while simultaneously saying that Texans should be allowed to legally open fire on immigrants. Lincoln was too light on the South and Andrew Johnson was so shitty that he openly tried to benefit the postbellum Southerners.
The South continues to prove that it didn’t deserve the reconstruction. Imagine if Germans allowed pieces of shit to openly fly swastika flags and proclaim that “The Reich will rise again.”
That’s what we’re up against here. Every single day I see the “rebel” flag being flown and celebrated and about once a month I hear someone in public talking about how there should be a rebellion. They legitimately believe that they can fight off the United States military and their rationale is that “The government won’t open fire on its own citizens” so they can just attack unabated.
It’s fucking banana sandwiches in this shit hole.
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“Not like that! I want all of the privilege but none of the responsibility. Why are you being so unreasonable?!”
- Republicans
Reminds me of Quebec. They wanted to separate from Canada but wanted to still use Canadian money and still have access to national Canadian programs.
It’s not a pick and choose situation as much as you like it. You’re either in the country and a part of it, or you’re not.
Honestly, it’s the story of conservatives literally everywhere.
Conservatives in UK: We want all of the benefits of being in the EU but not pay as much into it as those other countries, use our own money.
EU: SIGH Fine!
(Later)
Conservatives in UK: We want out! We can’t stand the fact that non-white people can enter our country whenever they like. And we don’t want refuges.
EU: Fine!
(Later, after brexit)
Conservatives: why can’t we just travel to Europe like we used to?
What got me was wanting to be able to continue to have Canadian Passports.
A lot of these movements are dominated be people that have a lot of pride in their region (which is fine) but don’t have a good grasp on international affairs to the point that they don’t actually understand what it means to be a country.
They’d still be able to use Canadian money. There are eleven countries right now that use US currency as their official currency. The Canadian federal programs are right out, though.
Britain is going through that regret right now after leaving the EU.
Brexit, Bregret, Brenter?
Plenty of autonomous regions around the world with these same kinds of arrangements.
Stuff like that can be negotiated between parties.
ME? Take responsibility for MY actions?
Lol no. That’s a YOUR thing.
- Also republicans
They do this on the micro level all the time with that “sovereign citizen” horse manure - going on and on about their “rights”? What fucking rights? You declared yourself someone who is not a citizen of the United States?!
So if Texas were to secede, then cry that their electoral votes don’t count, that would just be the sovereign citizen BS writ large.
Conservatives don’t accept responsibility for anything but only want the privileges
I invoke the Sherman Rebuke of Secession.
Speeding towards a 21st century version of American civil war doesn’t seem the smartest thing to do. 🙄
As opposed to a 21st century version of the Jim Crow century? Ceding lawful Federal authority to ultraconservative states is nothing less than a cession of the rights of US society to ultraconservative cretins, and is notoriously hard to reverse.
You’re right. The GOP is bonkers at this point.
Yeah. My thinking is that a forceful response by the US government will end up more “Ruby Bridges” than “Sherman’s March”, but we also must be ready for the latter if the GOP proves insane enough to escalate. I think it was Sherman who once wrote that the wages of tolerating secession would be eternal war, as local powers squabble and quarrel and attempt to oppress one another, and the central government becomes powerless and eventually withers away - or becomes authoritarian as people (foolishly) begin to yearn for a ‘strong man’ to restore order.
The thing is, Republicans here don’t actually want to escalate, or at least the Republican politicians. They want to scream loudly that whatever Biden does is hurting them, their constituents, and the country, whether it’s “weak” inaction or authoritarian action. It is an election year after all.
Will the radicalized, bloodthirsty Republican population escalate though? That’s maybe more likely. I’d be more concerned for violence as a minority in these states than as the National Guard.
The GOP has been blackmailing and gaslighting the public with callbacks to Puritanical values for decades, but now their true bigotry is showing and they should be dismissed for the hypocrites they are.
Civil War in the U.S. is highly unlikely in the current economy. Firstly because big business would never allow that kind of hit to the stock market, but also because you’re not going to get people leaving their families and going to the front lines when everyone is living paycheck-to-paycheck without a draft and good luck with trying to institute a draft.
Also… ya know, a big mismatch in technology. Sure a lot of folks have ARs and shit, some folks have Barret .50 cal sniper rifles. None of them have a fucking AH-64E Apache.
You need an F-15, not an AR-15.
What about an F-150? There’s plenty of those and last time I checked 150 is more than 15.
The usual comeback is “well, look at where the bases are!”
I don’t think it’s a coincidence they are located in the south.
Dude, there’s military bases all over the country…
Ok so, re-reading my comment from 9 hours ago, I can honestly say I don’t know what my train of thought was.
No worries dude… I know I’ve been exactly in that spot
but also because you’re not going to get people leaving their families and going to the front lines when everyone is living paycheck-to-paycheck without a draft and good luck with trying to institute a draft.
Sure you are. One of the first things every civil war starts out doing is paying soldiery. What better way to lure those living paycheck-to-paycheck than offering them a paycheck AND a cause?
Pay them with what? What money do you think Texas has?
Texas is in the top five states that receive federal aid.
And before you say oil, how are they going to export it with the US Navy blockading them? They don’t have the ships to go up against the US Navy.
Plenty of businessmen who are absolute fucking loons. Just look at the Mypillow guy. Same way the American Revolution got started, and the US Civil War. Rich folk loan the rebel government money either out of idealism or as a bet on the success on the rebels.
My point isn’t that it’s sustainable. My point is that it’s very possible to lure people who are living paycheck-to-paycheck to get involved in a war at the outset. The issue comes if the war drags on, and the rebel government starts to have trouble paying wages.
That’s really just a measure of population. Texas is one of the few red “giver” states
ETA: To answer your question, they could do the same as last time. They would issue confederate promissory notes, which would only have worth if they win. Probably at inflated numbers to appeal to greed and bypass the obvious problems with that idea
Probably some confedcoin crypto sham this time around!
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Nah, my steam deck comes with me to the front
They’re not smart people.
Yeah it does, time to fight and get it over with.
Start new on the other side.
He’s got the US flag behind him, and he’s threatening to secede?!!
I mean his hero is a presidential candidate who is selling shirts that say ‘No Surrender’ under a photo of his mugshot, taken after he surrendered to the police.
Yeah but was volunteering to help out the police. Or something.
That flag doesn’t symbolize America. It symbolizes Merika.
Oh yes of course. Please forgive my ignorance of their blessed wisdom.
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At this point I think Biden needs to just call their bluff. He should come back with, “Okay, here’s all the plans we’ve drawn up to go into effect as soon as you ratify your secession.”
Then present the plans that include cessation of all federal subsidies to all public and private Texas entities, removal of all US military personnel and equipment, removal of all other federal agencies and personal (eg. Federal Border Patrol, Park rangers, IRS), removal of the Federal reserve in Dallas, the construction of border walls around the state in NM, OK, AR, and LA asking with placement of the removed border patrol there, and so on.
Let them stew for a bit and chew on just how utterly fucked this state (yeah I live in TX, and early awaiting the day we can leave) would be if they really did successfully secede.
You forgot one: We’re gonna invade the nation of Texas, because they have oil.
You mean bring them Freedom ™
“Operation 1 Star Freedom”
Tell them we - the real America - will be keeping all the mineral rights, thanks. They can enjoy the going Galt without any of OUR resources, thankyouveryfuckingmuch.
If they really did secede, I think it’s a bit presumptuous to assume you would still have travel rights in the US. Better get out before it happens.
Like everything else, it’s a risk trade-off calculation. On the one hand, I’d love to leave now, but If we leave before 2029, it could cost us potentially $1-3million in teacher retirement pension. (spread across 20-30+ years as my wife can retire quite early because she started so young)
So one must balance the risk of Texas really seceding vs the financial cost of leaving early.
At this stage, while it’s a ‘fun’ (I use that term very loosely) thought experiment, I think the likelihood of Texas actually seceding is pretty low. If at some point it starts to look like it’s actually likely, then we’ll reevaluate if it makes sense to let go of that much money.
That’s a tough spot to be in, good luck to you.
It really sucks to think how many people may be held hostage in Gilead states just like you seem to be.
If Texas actually leaves the union, they are no longer a part of the United States and will not be bound by American rule of law. Closed borders may be the least of your problems by that point. Keep your head on a swivel so that the point of no return doesn’t suddenly sail past you.
I’m vaguely curious, though not enough to go look it up, how issues of citizenship have been handled in other peaceful separations, like that of Czechoslovakia.
The answer I would find most reasonable, though not necessarily most likely, is to give everyone a certain amount of time to declare which citizenship they choose to retain.
Per Wikipedia.
- Czechoslovakia
On January 1, 1993, all Czechoslovak citizens automatically became citizens either of the Czech Republic or the Slovak Republic, based on their previous citizenship, permanent residence address, birthplace, family ties, job and other criteria. Additionally, people had one year’s time to claim the other citizenship under certain conditions.
I think things were a LOT uglier in the breakup of Yugoslavia, as well as the partition of India and Pakistan.
So it could go either way.
Well that’s because Yugoslavia was an administrative hodgepodge of actual countries. Oh wait that’s not good Texas is home to several district cultural and regional identities. Okay but at least it’s not a religious thing right?
Fuck.
Then we can just have the U.S.A. Union, which gives a unified visa, currency, and unified government.
It’s literally never going to happen.
Doesn’t mean they won’t try. Last time someone tried, the civil war happened. Lack of success doesn’t mean lack of associated problems or consequences. The real questions would be how far would they get and how bad would it get. Sure, there’s a good chance they would never actually try, but the chances they will aren’t zero.
Pretty damn close to zero.
Oklahoma should start building the wall for fun.
Something like this is why Brexit
Imagine Abraham Lincoln hearing this about his own Republican party.
Lincoln would not recognize the current republican party as his own. He’d call them pretenders and go back to chopping trees in the woods.
He would just call them Democrats.
The parties did a flip flop. Democrats used to be the conservative party.
Hmm some sort of crisis with the south nullifying federal laws. I wonder where we’ve seen that before?
Im only kidding, this isn’t really the same situation, but there’s definitely shades of gray shared.
Maybe more relation than you might think.
The southern border states rely on illegal immigration for cheap labour to suppress wages of citizens.
If President Biden doesn’t come down hard on this he’s going to be remembered as a second Buchanan.
The GOP wants him to take the bait. Their goal is to block humane border legislation, implement inhumane alternative solutions, and taunt Biden into removing the inhumane shit. That way they can campaign on “Biden wants to aggressively keep the status quo at the border.”
If Biden is going to crack down on Texas, he also needs to have some sort of big bold alternative thing in place.
I don’t know, it’s really a lose lose either way. Biden is either too soft and the GOP calls it a win and does something worse, or he is too tough and he’s called a dictator. I’d rather he take decisive action and put the fear of God in them than let it escalate and get even more immigrants killed. Honestly after the shipping migrants to liberal states stunt he should have thrown the book and/or CIA at 'em.
I wouldn’t throw out that it also may be an attempt to sway the swing states off the teeter and vote in their favor by giving him that no-win. May also be a way to distract the left side while trying to radicalize the right into another insurrection.
I say to fucking take the bait. Come down hard, be a “tyrant” for once. Do what Lincoln did, suspend habeas corpus, declare martial law, slap every GOP Governor siding with this shit in handcuffs. They want to act like criminals, treat them as criminals.
The funny thing is, Republicans would probably respect that. They value hierarchy and don’t have many actual policies. Biden acting like a king might actually pull voters from Trump, at the expense of actual Democrats (who probably wouldn’t vote).
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Just one thing. They’re going to claim he’s lawless no matter what. He could give them everything they want and they will still claim it. He’s already the most conservative Democrat president on the border in modern times.
He could ask Congress whether we should send troops and aid to El Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras, to address the humanitarian crisis that is driving refugees to US borders.
Why not? He is already the second jackson
General Sherman should’ve finished the job.
Legal eagle just did a piece on this: https://youtu.be/1dhvry6E0jA?si=K9C7aTtOsaY1uPK_
Remember kids.
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Weird, the right wing keeps trying to lie and imply that KKK/Confederates somehow have something to do with today’s Democratic Party and not the conservative movement…
Huh.
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