• @Boozilla
    link
    English
    2453 months ago

    After reading “Into Thin Air” by Jon Krakauer, I feel like anyone still traveling to climb Everest is a rich douchebag. It’s glorified tourism of the worst kind. It’s been done a zillion times already, and isn’t as impressive as they fantasize. Go run a marathon or something for your stupid adventure junky social media clout. The sherpas do all the real work.

    • Flying SquidOP
      link
      503 months ago

      That’s an incredible book. I highly recommend both that and Under the Banner of Heaven. Krakauer is just riveting.

      • @mr_sifl
        link
        143 months ago

        Totally agree, I think Into Thin Air is maybe my favorite book and I wasn’t expecting that at all when I read it. I really enjoyed the show based on Under the Banner of Heaven too. What a bunch of crazies.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        123 months ago

        Krakauer is definitely a great writer but the factual issues in into the wild kind of made me wonder just how accurate the rest of his books are.

        • Flying SquidOP
          link
          113 months ago

          I don’t know about Into the Wild, but I have read plenty about the FLDS church since to know that he at least got those details right in Under the Banner of Heaven.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            53 months ago

            I’ve read all of these. The streamingseries adaptation for under the banner of heaven was pretty good too.

            • Flying SquidOP
              link
              53 months ago

              Now I have heard that the steaming adaptation had some accuracy issues. I haven’t seen it yet.

              • NegativeNull
                link
                53 months ago

                The show does differ from the book. The main character in the show (Andrew Garfield) is not in the book. He’s a detective searching for answers. It helps tell the narrative in video form. The book doesn’t need that. Both the book and show are good. They just tell the relevant story in slightly different ways.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                5
                edit-2
                3 months ago

                I don’t recall the s Specifics enough to comment on the accuracy, because I read the book at least 15 years before seeming the show. but it is enjoyable and it I think anyone who doesn’t read books should check it out to see how crazy Mormons really are.

        • @Boozilla
          link
          English
          53 months ago

          He admitted to some errors. He’s trustworthy overall. That story has always been surrounded by a cloud of emotions and conflicting “takes”. Which is very understandable. But I would also question the sister’s version. Not saying she is lying, but a family member will always be biased.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            13 months ago

            I think there have been a lot of questions raised by people even before the recent book came out. In particular, the cause of Chris’s death by poisoning was more or less invented by Krakauer and contradicts what the coroner wrote and several independent analyses done on this topic. But Krakauer stood by this and has tried to revive his pet theories even after they were debunked.

            • @Boozilla
              link
              English
              23 months ago

              Wasn’t only Krakauer, though. McCandless himself wrote it in his journal, and many others have speculated he was poisoned by this or that. Krakauer didn’t make it up out of whole cloth.

              Truth is we don’t know and probably never will. But it’s kind of irrelevant. People always want to know an exact cause of death. Which is understandable, but ultimately the kid got killed by something he did or failed to do. Even if it was simple rabbit starvation (malnourishment) he failed to survive in the wild on his own.

              I admire Chris and what he did. I don’t think his death means he was an idiot. Quite the opposite. I think he was brave and adventurous and lived a much better life, if cut tragically short, than 99% of humans. But there’s still some lessons to be learned from his avoidable passing.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                1
                edit-2
                3 months ago

                The available evidence strongly suggests he starved (from lack of food, not protein poisoning) and has strongly undermined the poisoning theory. You can read a pretty detailed outline of his claims and contrary evidence here: https://freshlyworded.com/2020/05/17/re-reading-into-the-wild-what-killed-chris-mccandless/

                But exactly how Chris died is kind of beside the point: Krakauer has suggested about half a dozen similar theories over the years, only to have them sequentially debunked. He then comes up with a new one as soon as the previous one is no longer tenable. This approach is not only wrong but it is in opposition to the idea of truth-seeking in that it goes to great lengths to avoid the obvious conclusion of the available evidence. If he had just said what you wrote, that the truth is somewhat uncertain that would be fine. But he didn’t, he has pursued his pet theory beyond all reason or evidence. I am assuming this is an ego issue and it raises big questions about the facts in his other reporting which have not been investigated as deeply.

                Here’s another article that goes over even more factual issues in this section: https://www.adn.com/books/article/fiction-jon-krakauers-wild/2015/01/10/

                I don’t want to dunk on Chris but he died because he was inexperienced and unprepared for the situation he put himself in. Whether that makes him an idiot is for up for debate but it’s not true that he was a victim of some unforeseeable tragedy. He didn’t have enough food or the means to obtain it, which is something most people realize before traveling to a remote area where they cannot easily escape.

                • @Boozilla
                  link
                  English
                  13 months ago

                  I’ve read Krakauer’s responses and followups and have a very different take. I see guy being attacked from two contradictory sides, simply trying his best to defend his reputation as an author. Not saying he handled it perfectly, but I disagree that it’s pure ego and wild theories driving him. He’s very open that he’s speculating, he’s owned up to being wrong at times, and he’s trying to show the know-it-alls that they do not have the definitive answer either.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      493 months ago

      At this point it’d be safer to just build a tram line to the top and then hire the sherpas as the infrastructure mechanics to keep it maintained, raises their incomes and cuts the shit with people dying for dumb rich people nonsense.

      • Flying SquidOP
        link
        93 months ago

        The Chinese already built a paved road to the North Base Camp. Only a matter of time before they build it all the way to the top.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          33 months ago

          Maybe but IIRC the Chinese side of the approach was already considered the less treacherous side, this would most likely require some serious capital investment just for hazard mitigation alone during construction.

          The long term net benefit though would be more than enough to warrant the costs IMO, would even facilitate recovering the dead bodies on the slope.

          • Flying SquidOP
            link
            13 months ago

            I think the long term net loss of allowing anyone who wants to drive to the top to do so is a bigger issue.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              23 months ago

              The net loss of people not dying like idiots for a fake accomplishment? The net loss of the local communities getting high paying technical jobs? The net loss of all that shit and dead people the hike accumulates being removed from the equation since it’s now able to be safely transported off the mountain without making people hike for days to retrieve it?

              • Flying SquidOP
                link
                03 months ago

                And a road to the top allowing endless tourists up there won’t result in more trash accumulating on the mountain? Not to mention erosion.

                Have you been to an easily-accessible natural wonder before? People who can get up close treat them like shit. That’s why most of them are only viewable from a distance.

                I give it two weeks from the time a road to the top gets completed before someone spray paints their graffiti tag on the summit.

                • @[email protected]
                  link
                  fedilink
                  13 months ago
                  • who said anything about a road, I mentioned a rail car.

                  • that’s what you install guard rails and write rules of conduct for. This tragedy of the commons narrative more often than not comes from understaffed park workers not having the funding to adequately police park visitor behavior with the up close sites, the tomb of the unknown soldier is also easily accessible and yet is one of the most well maintained and respectfully observed sites in the world.

                  • I’m pretty sure the spray paint can would have blown off their hand by the time they got to the summit from becoming so much more pressurized by the high altitude.

      • @bitwaba
        link
        13 months ago

        But the rich need to maintain their veil of accomplishment! And it’s dumb rich people dying, so who cares?

    • Stern
      link
      223 months ago

      For real, go climb Muchu Chhish if a flex is wanted. Highest unclimbed peak in the world that can be legally climbed right now.

      • @Kbobabob
        link
        113 months ago

        Ok, help me understand this.

        Muchu Chhish (7,453 metres (24,452 ft)) is a mountain in the Batura Muztagh sub-range of the Karakoram in Hunza Valley, in northern areas of Pakistan.[1] Located in a very remote and inaccessible region, only a handful of attempts have been made to reach the summit; and none have succeeded.

        Ok, that seems to track but then there’s this bit…

        most expeditions thus attempt it via the South Ridge of 7,462 m (24,482 ft) Batura VI to the immediate west. This ridge was climbed by a Polish expedition in 1983 using fixed ropes while making the first ascent of 7,531 m (24,708 ft)

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          33 months ago

          Rest of the sentence (emphasis mine)

          This ridge was climbed by a Polish expedition in 1983 using fixed ropes while making the first ascent of 7,531 m (24,708 ft) Batura V and VI

          They ascended the Batura VI peak next door, which I guess happens to be almost as tall as Muchu Chhish (Batura V). Interesting that the wiki article claims they ascended Batura V and VI, but their linked references by the American Alpine club says it was Batura IV. Probably a scrivener’s error, since 7,531 is the height of Batura VI.

        • @20hzservers
          link
          93 months ago

          You’re allowed to try but no one has succeeded?

    • @Rapidcreek
      link
      133 months ago

      IMO he was stressing how easy it has become to make the climb. In that it was expensive is another issue. His point was that people that didn’t have the ability to make the climb, could.

      • @Boozilla
        link
        English
        173 months ago

        That was definitely one of his major points. But he also talked about all the damage being done, and how people make really stupid decisions. And how it’s an arrogant and pointless endeavor. He was fairly self-critical, which I respect.

        • @Rapidcreek
          link
          63 months ago

          He was speaking as a witness to a tragedy and as such was trying to identify why it happened. He himself was blamed for part of it by climber families. Of course any event that ends in tragedy seems pointless in retrospect.

          • @Boozilla
            link
            English
            1
            edit-2
            3 months ago

            Say they succeeded and nobody got hurt. I still don’t see the point. I’m not saying all of mountain climbing is entirely pointless. I’m saying most people going to Everest for the clout are dumb.

  • @psycho_driver
    link
    84
    edit-2
    3 months ago

    They’re clearly not thinking this through. They all need to lug their frozen poo to the summit and pile it there, so they can stand on it when they take their selfie and declare that they’re at a higher peak than any previous summiters due to their poo pedestal.

  • LinkOpensChest.wav
    link
    fedilink
    563 months ago

    One thing that is not on my bucket list is climbing Mt. Everest. Any natural wonder and charm it once had have been destroyed by mindless tourists.

      • @Jessvj93
        link
        43 months ago

        Congrats on the bucket list so far! Oh how less poop and endangered your life is now!

  • @Zirconium
    link
    453 months ago

    Thought it was “starts to sink,” I was like ok that’s a lot of poop

  • kellyaster
    link
    fedilink
    30
    edit-2
    3 months ago

    How much frozen human shit has that mountain accumulated since people started climbing it for fun? Can somebody do the math on that? I feel like it has potential for a really shitty trivia question. Like, for Shitty Jeopardy! or something. JFC, I am baked.

    @FlyingSquid omg I didn’t realize it was your post. Hi! Ok I’m gonna put the bowl down

    • Skua
      link
      fedilink
      313 months ago

      A shitload har har har

      Apparently the average UK adult defecates about 100g per day, and that’s the first link that showed up so I’m going to go with the UK numbers in that one study. According to wikipedia there were 11,346 ascents as of July 2022. Assuming two weeks from base camp to summit and back, based on Tom Kilpatrick’s article on The Manual, that means 1.4 kg of shit per climb for a total of almost 16 metric tonnes or 17.5 short tons

      • @Death_Equity
        link
        53 months ago

        That number is definitely low, you eat more in the cold and with exertion. It is probably over double your number, that is a lot of doo-doo.

        I imagine all the loss of snow is exposing decades of accumulated mountain dookie.

        By 2100 they are estimating a 75% loss of snow/ice on the mountain, which means at 800 climbs per year(modern rate) by 2100 there will be over 186 metric tonnes of poopy on the mountain with very little snow to hide it. I don’t even think that number includes Sherpa scat.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    283 months ago

    They need to just haul a big trebuchet up there.Then they can just launch poop down the mountain in sealed containers with the poop trebuchet. Ideally you could have a few poop trebuchets in a line to launch em down one after another.

    Easy peasy.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      53 months ago

      You’re over engineering this.

      Have you ever heard about the guys who brought parachutes up Everest, and just glided back down?

      Instead of a heavy trebuchet, you just redesign poop bags to have a little parachute attached to them. Then you release your poop to the winds… Who knows how far your poop might go?

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    183 months ago

    At least the idiots all funnel to the same place rather than fucking up every location. I feel the same about Joffre Lakes near Vancouver.

  • @nutsack
    link
    133 months ago

    limit the permits to climb this mountain and charge people thousands of dollars for them

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      93
      edit-2
      3 months ago

      I too, believe the best way to control a natural resource is to only allow the rich to use it. For they are truly better people. Always known for their consideration.

        • @Death_Equity
          link
          23 months ago

          An upper middle class person can afford an Everest climb as a once in a lifetime trip. It isn’t an exclusive millionaire class trip.

          • @yuriy
            link
            163 months ago

            “Once in a lifetime” isn’t affordable, that’s someone sacrificing a lot to vacation outside of their socioeconomic class.

            • @Death_Equity
              link
              -63 months ago

              An “economy” climb is $60k. That is 10 years of saving $6k per year for a once in a lifetime vacation. That is totally achievable for someone making $100k a year that doesn’t let income creep put them in a stupid financial situation.

              You have more of a point if that same person making $100k a year spends $120k on a “premium” climb, but that same person would let income creep make that trip less reasonably affordable.

              • @overcast5348
                link
                13 months ago

                How poor are the people here that you’re getting downvoted and even got a “shut up” for this comment? It’s really not a stretch to call a $60k expense a “once in a lifetime” expense.

                How many people drive around in 80k vehicles that they “upgrade” every few years? How many people spend absolutely ridiculous amounts of money on designer brands, perfumes, watches, and shit? Sure, 60k is a lot of money for most people, but there’s a large number of people (at least in the western countries, in absolute numbers, not %) that could easily afford to spend 60k on something every 5-10 years if it fancies them, and an even larger number of people who could afford to spend 60k on something once in a lifetime.

                • @Death_Equity
                  link
                  03 months ago

                  Those people with $80k cars tend to lease, which can have tax advantages, but you are still paying $1k a month to rent a car that you put 20-30% down on.

                  That touches on that income creep issue as people increase their lifestyle expenses along with income and don’t understand how they are living paycheck to paycheck with no savings, retirement, investments, and can’t afford to have your midlife crisis on the world’s tallest peak.

                  Buy a Honda, climb the mountain.

      • @Psythik
        link
        15
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        Yeah seriously, just limit the amount of people who can climb.

        I personally believe that anyone should be allowed to go on a suicide mission should they chose to, whether they be rich or poor.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          13 months ago

          How? Unless you live in Napal, it’s not cheap to get to. It also takes at least some amount of planning and skill. Far from the hardest climb out there, but you can’t be an idiot about it.

          The remoteness alone is already limiting who can go there. El Capitan is less remote, but is a legendarily difficult climb, and that may get around the same number of people per year.

  • FunkyMonk
    link
    fedilink
    123 months ago

    You really can’t have a better headline for the wealthy enshittifying the world for their singularity point egos chef kiss

  • @foggy
    link
    103 months ago

    Sherpa rates gonna skyrocket

  • @_sideffect
    link
    53 months ago

    How do they wipe and clean themselves up there? I’d bring my bidet with, lol