- cross-posted to:
- jillstein
- cross-posted to:
- jillstein
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Now, where are all those users who said Jill Stein wasn’t a Russian asset?
Linkerbaan is going to be so hyped about his boy Cornel (who is totally not controlled opposition /s) getting a shout-out.
There’s an actual community? Haha, pathetic.
I just posted the OP story there. I commented there once calling her a Russian puppet, and linked a story about it, which they called biased, despite everything was documented including pictures of lunch with Putin, and of course it was removed.
Pretty sure you’re the only person to post there other than jimmydoreisalefty
I (briefly) accidentally downvoted you out of habit before realizing this is not the usual propaganda…
I didn’t post there earlier, only commented, Maybe the reason my post is the only one that isn’t jimmydoreisalefty, is that it hasn’t been deleted yet?
Previously I commented on this post: https://lemmy.world/post/16567090
“I’m not Russian!” - angry orange
Ryan: “What’s said in the family stays in the family.”
deleted by creator
Their campaigns are undeniably good for Trump, but I don’t think that makes them Trump allies. Besides Jill Stein attending the same dinner as Putin, and accusing the west of encircling Russia, mind elaborating your view of her being a Russian asset?
Edit: Hey all you down voters, how do you expect to get your point across when actually curious people ask simple goddamn questions about your position and you act like they just slapped your mom
If you were trying to actually build a green party from the ground up in American politics, would you platform local candidates, build your bench, develop campaign offices nationwide, and actually try guiding policy - or would you drop your hat every four years so that disillusioned voters can protest vote for you?
What does Stein do?
What does Jill Stein do?
I’m not sure, that’s why I was asking the individual to elaborate. Thanks.
She runs for president and nothing else.
I don’t know why people got on your case about it, it wasn’t a bad question. I only felt that a rhetorical point had to be made
The Green Party in the United States is a joke.
I only wish it were not so.
Do both.
The question is what does she do, not what should she do.
Oh boy just looking at that picture, and then think how Mueller let that piece of shit traitor Flynn walk. That investigation was drawn out, and in the end he had done almost nothing of substance, and Mueller followed every single “direction” from the white house.
Try to compare that to how Bill Clinton was investigated and hung out for something of little relevance, not illegal, and besides the mandated investigation!
Republicans are so fucking corrupt! Including Mueller.Booyeah, preciate it
Trump ally or not, West’s campaign is being aided by the GOP in North Carolina and Arizona and probably other states as well. So whether or not he is Trump ally, he is at minimum an ally of the GOP.
In answer to your edit, those down voters probably assumed you were sealioning. Your post history suggests to me that that’s not likely though. Maybe they just vehemently disagreed with your assertion that they are not Russian assets. Anyway, here is some reading about West and Stein that you might find enlightening. I’ve included snippets but if you really want to learn, I suggest that you follow the links and read the whole thing. Personally, I’m convinced that they are working for Putin and anyone working for Putin is allied with Trump.
But as he campaigns for president, West is moving beyond the DSA and forging bonds with far-left activists who call for the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism, who support the Chinese and North Korean regimes, and who are associated with communist organizations and Russian state propaganda operations.
- Stein is pals with Vladimir Putin and his team: She joined MAGA extremist Michael Flynn as the only Americans to sit with Putin at a dinner in Moscow in 2015.
- At an event in New York that same year, she met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. – NBC News; Jill Stein
- The Russians helped Stein in 2016: “Russians working under the direction of the Internet Research Agency, the firm run by a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, tweeted the phrase ‘Jill Stein’ over 1,000 times around the time of the election. The posts were often accompanied by variations of the same hashtag, ‘Grow a spine and vote Jill Stein…’ – NBC News (December 22, 2018)
- And Stein touted their propaganda in return: In 2015, Stein “recorded a video from Moscow’s famous Red Square, in which she talked about ‘the need to rein in American exceptionalism’ and replace ‘a U.S. policy based on domination’—words that sounded like they were ripped from Putin’s talking points.” – POLITICO (June 20, 2017). During the campaign of 2016, Stein “parroted the Russian position on Ukraine and criticized the U.S. for installing a government in Kiev ‘hostile to Russia.’” – NBC News (December 22, 2018)
- She still sounds like a Russian propogandist on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine: “Russia’s invasion was a provoked response to the bigger, more murderous and illegal game plan of US empire - in which ‘overextending’ and defeating Russia is only one small part of the picture… In 2014 the US backed a coup in Ukraine led by far-right insurrectionists. The installation of the new government was a giant step towards the goal of adding Ukraine to NATO - and putting hostile bases and nuclear-capable missiles right on Russia’s border.” – Jill Stein (February 24, 2022)
I’ll give you stein but just because west shared a stage with a couple tankies doesn’t make him a Russian asset. Yeah he wants an end to the war but that seems motivated by a legitimate fervent anti-imperialist isolationism rather than a sympathy for Putin.
Neither Putin or Flynn are tankies. Not even remotely. Putin is realistically fascist. And Flynn is a fascist cheerleader. If my choice was between supporting them or tankies. I would support tankies every single day. And I really don’t like tankies or other similar authoritarian types. But they are slightly better than fascists like Putin
I was talking about Cornell west, the article the other commenter linked was saying he was turning hard left because he spoke at a conference that had the PSL (ml tanky party) candidate and some China simp speaking as well, even though he didn’t endorse them or even talk about them.
Besides Jill Stein attending the same dinner as Putin, and accusing the west of encircling Russia, mind elaborating your view of her being a Russian asset?
“All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”
I pointed out the two things a knew about Jill Stein and asked for elaboration, and you’re making it out as if I knew several things about her and am just trying to incite a thrashing response.
I’m just trying to engage in regular conversation, there’s no need for you to try to make me feel stupid – I’m already coming from a place of ignorance. But hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself and your knowledgeable position, patronize away.
The point is that the things you listed are, even just by themselves, more than enough to conclude that she’s acting against America’s interests.
Old article about West being funded by Harlan Crowe. Whatever he believes, he thinks it’s worth doing something the worst people in our society want in an election that’s between a conservative Democrat and a fascist. He knows he’s not going to advance left wing causes, he could go on Sunday shows for that, and he doesn’t mind advancing fascist causes in exchange for their money. He may just be delusional rather than a deeply indebted sell-out, but if it were the latter his actions wouldn’t look any different.
I am not necessarily a fan of west. But my guess is that he’s a victim of his pride and unwittingly / uncritically supporting the worst element around unintentionally.
But they’re absolutely is a third option. Compromat.
I also do not know what motivates him, but when his actions and impacts are indistinguishable from someone actively aiding fascism, I don’t think it’s really important for us to parse that. He’s an educated man with no known mental impairments, regardless of motivations he knows what effect his campaign will likely have.
Strictly speaking I don’t disagree.
Both West and Stein support Putin’s genocide in Ukraine by being against Ukraine defending itself. Trump also has that reason to like them.
They certainly seem less concerned about it, but they seem to oppose the Gazan genocide better than Biden or Trump.
I learned today that Cornel West thinks the world would be safer without NATO. I won’t say that’s the only geopolitical opinion he felt strongly enough about to issue a press release about, but I had to go six months back to find another one, which makes a total of two that I’m aware of.
“Let’s not support Israel while they kill Palestinians,” of course, is honestly a pretty sensible and congruous number one… “why NATO is bad” and Ukraine, on the other hand, is a very surprising and unusual one to be number 2.
Opposition to NATO is a pretty milquetoast opinion on the socialist left due to its’ part in the continued exploitation and neo-imperialism of the global south. I’m also opposed to NATO, but I don’t think it should be dismantled. Rather it should be turned into an international climate change relief agency.
I’m just saying most left people I know who want to reign in the excesses of US hegemony care about US military adventures in the Middle East, or interventions in Central America, or immigration policy, or neoliberal trade restrictions against weaker economic powers… it’s highly unusual for the second thing on the list to be this particular European military alliance that is highly consensual and pretty productive for everyone who’s a part of it, and which is targeted almost entirely (now that it’s not the late 1990s anymore) at one particular big geopolitical power that they don’t have any particular love for any more than they do for the US. If we were talking about reigning them in back when they were bombing the fuck out of the former Yugoslavia, then yeah I wouldn’t bat an eye at it, but… I’m not saying it’s impossible that someone from the left managed to authentically arrive at the conclusion that out of all the possible awful things the US does on the world stage, NATO’s the urgent problem that needs to be torn down. But I think in comparison to the other obvious explanation, it seems a little implausible, quite honestly.
Only on the accelerationist left. No one is saying NATO is great. That’s not an argument that can be made. But it’s insane to genuinely believe the world would be better or much different in its absence.
NATO for all it’s sins is a tool. That could be just as easily leveraged for good. That is if we stop self sabotaging. Instead showing some solidarity and working towards coalitions that could actually stand and represent the Common Man against the wealthy.
NATO will never exist in that manner until a majority of member nations and the US are socialist. Even though I disagree with it, I understand the desire to want it just dismantled instead because getting to that point is tantamount to moving mountains. It’s not just an accelerationist position.
No it’s not. By abolishing the mutual defense pact of all those different nations it will simply Empower a different group of people. Who are just as bad actors as NATO has traditionally been. And any claim to the contrary is pants on head crazy.
Are you seriously insisting that Russia who is currently invading ukraine. And China who is poisoning the reefs and fishing spots around their neighbors in order to hurt them while also saber rattling at Taiwan would see the dissolution of NATO and say okay we’ll be good people now? Is that seriously what you’re implying? I’m not saying they’re worse than NATO had traditionally been. They’re pretty on par. But let’s not act delusionally here.
abolishing the mutual defense pact of all those different nations it will simply Empower a different group of people.
ah yes, the “we must defend the status quo at ALL COSTS because the unknown is scary” position. Which alliance exists currently that is a rival to NATO? Which existing political alliances are being suppressed that will immediately crop up into a military alliance in it’s absence? Since it’s purely an accelerationist position, will you point out the other accelerationist positions on Dr. West’s Policy Pillars?
Are you seriously insisting …
I hate NATO. I understand why people want it dismantled. I disagree with that assessment. How much more explicit do I have to be? No, I am not insisting any of that.
Way to prove your disingenuousness. I never argued for the status quo. But I understand that when you don’t actually have a response to an argument. At least for disingenuous people. You just make stuff up as you just did. I get that you irrationally hate nato. And you can keep irrationally hating nato. Because you will not ever succeed or convince people of your position when you keep making up stufg like this.
All I said was that there are other Bad actors out there. And leaving ourself defenseless and without allies is a bad idea. I’m all for fixing nato. But you are for Banning hammers because someone was killed by one once. Your for throwing babies out with bath water. Because it was dirty. Mutual defense packs are fine and have a place still today. I would like to see the imperialist nature of it done away with. But no one with any sense would trust anything you have to say. Good day.
What exactly did I make up? You don’t have to say that you support the status quo to argue in favor of the status quo. I’m asking basic questions to understand where you’re coming from, because I refuse to assume things about your position. China greatly prefers soft power over military power (not that they don’t act in a jingoist manner), and will not align themselves with Russia in fear of US secondary sanctions hurting their soft power. India is courting all sides of the geopolitical game in the hopes of gaining power overall, not in any specific direction. North Korea has weapons manufacturing capabilities lacking in Russia, but the DPRK is doing it to hurt the West without incurring worse sanctions. BRICS is an economic alliance comparable to the WTO and it definitely has nowhere near the weight of WTO or the will to become a military alliance. The African Union and ECOWAS are aligned with the imperial core. I’m not denying that there are other bad actors out there, I’m saying that none of the bad actors are anywhere close to organized, so fearmongering about “something worse than NATO” is nothing more than that.
I wouldn’t call “hating NATO” irrational. I’d say it’s a difference in priorities. I don’t believe that the suffering imposed on the global south by NATO is outweighed by the mild stability they’re bringing to the global north currently. I hate the pain and suffering that NATO enables in the majority of the world. However out of pragmatism, I see that the lack of NATO in the present would be worse for people overall. The best time to have dismantled NATO would have been at any point from 1992 to 2010. The next best time will come in the near future when NATO is no longer holding the West together against bad actors. However rather than dismantle it, I want to see it transformed into something that helps people in crisis, rather than the purposes of war. To do that, the US (NATO’s largest funder) will need to have a socialist economy to prevent them pulling out ASAP, and a majority of other members will need to be socialist as well due to the democratic structure of the organization. It’s a Herculean task, but I believe that it can be done. Perhaps you should avoid assuming things about my position as well.
I feel like you’re the same type of person that would refuse to help organize a union or even sign a membership card because the organizing committee isn’t doing things ‘your way’. I know your type, because I organized a union without the help of your type. Running around accusing people disagreeing with you as “disingenuous” doesn’t help gain understanding or class solidarity with your fellow workers.
You mean like imperialist Russia, which is the kind of country NATO was specifically designed to protect against?
NATO was specifically designed to protect against the United Soviet Socialist Republic, which was illegally dissolved by the RSFSR. There is no relationship between the USSR and modern Russia.
Trump understands FPTP systems better than many here it seems.
All I want for Christmas is Approval Voting and proportional representation.
Please santa
Same
Biden is spoiling the Biden campaign. He’s simply not more appealing than the other candidates.
No shit a major party candidate wants to discredit third parties, this isn’t news lol.
Because voting Dem has turned out so well for everyone hasn’t it.
Compared to Trump? Yes, very much so.
how has your life been changed due to Biden during all years as a politician? he picked a prosecutor for a vice and has a pro police stance, he’s catholic and now women have no rights, workers rallied and he silenced them with threats to their livelihoods and the minimum wage is still $7.25 with a higher inflation than when he took office
his whole career as politician has been against us the citizens
why does he deserve votes now?
goose meme who took away women’s rights?
Who took them away?
And did you actually pay attention to the union negotiation results and impacts on worker rights? Here’s a hint, they’re stronger than before
Who controls inflation? Do you think the president does?
Because however principled you are about the shittiness of the two-party system - and it is indeed shitty, but it’s the one we’re stuck in - we have a practical choice of only one of two people, and he’s not the other one.
Americans have no choice but the 2-party state: it is futile to even try to change things.
Only in swing states.
Most states you know exactly what the outcome is going to be, no matter how hard you or they campaign.
We understand FPTP and the electoral college.
Where do you get your news, champ?
House price inflation has slowed since biden came into office. The NLRB is much improved. The FCC is trying to bring back net neutrality. Theres been half a dozen uses of antitrust laws to keep corporations from consolidating so they can fire workers and jack up prices for consumers. Marijuana is being reduced in schedule such that it can be used medically.
I would say that Biden has - to any working person who is even half paying attention - been one of the best presidents for average people in the last 50 years. Its a low bar but credit where its due.
Marijuana is being reduced in schedule such that it can be used medically.
rescheduled to get more regulations put in place like what happened with nicotine vaping being regulated nearly out of existence with only one or two megacorps allowed mixed with sus products by iffy companies skirting regulations
