- cross-posted to:
- leopardsatemyface
- cross-posted to:
- leopardsatemyface
Summary
California farmers, many of whom supported Trump, face a potential crisis as his immigration policies threaten mass deportations of undocumented workers, who make up at least half of the state’s 162,000 farm labor force.
Deportations could devastate agriculture, leading to labor shortages, unharvested crops, and rising food prices.
Farmers hope for solutions such as workforce legalization or expanded H-2A guest worker programs, though these have been criticized for exploitation risks.
Historical parallels to programs like “Operation Wetback” and the bracero system highlight possible labor and human rights challenges ahead.
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Still wild the conversation NEVER turns to the people employing undocumented workers and instead demonize the workers themselves.
The point isn’t to actually deport these people, it’s to give their employers and landlords a powerful tool to exploit them and prevent them from benefitting from any social services.
Yep, the more precarious their legal status, the more compliant they are. This is all about suppressing labour rights.
That’s why the Republican playbook regarding the border was always just talk, and Trump somehow doesn’t get that it was always a scam to get the votes of the racists without ever seriously planning to follow through.
If all farm workers were legally in the US, they’d form unions right off the bat, especially since a strike during harvest season is going to fuck over a farmer financially within days.
Not only does it cause compliance it creates a perfect setup for exploitation, extortion, and trafficking.
But pushing them too far could result in them just starting some fires and leaving to go cross the border back home. Sure they left for a reason but pushing them too far is going to make them leave for one.
When you put it like that, it sounds like slavery with extra steps.
Fuck me, I hadn’t looked at it this way and I should have.
It’s such a noble and rare thing to admit that you understand something on a deeper level because of an internet comment that I genuinely don’t know how to respond.
Well done friend, and happy holidays.
Yup. A place that my wife worked at employed at least one undocumented immigrant that got picked up by CBP. Did the company gave any fines or legal issues? Nope. But the undocumented employee had to pay a few thousand in fines and was never deported.
My Uncle is a close friend of Jeff Landry (R-Louisiana) and voted for Trump.
Constantly would demonize illegal immigrants with all kinds of vitriolic accusations. Then would immediately brag that his hydro seeding company is making so much profit because he hires almost exclusively illegal immigrants and pays them peanuts under the table.
I’ve reported him to the state numerous times but nothing ever gets done (remember who he is close friends with now…)
I hope he goes out of business. I hope it ruins him.
Thank you for trying, I hope it ruins him too
They don’t even remember that the leopards ate their faces last time…
Leopards ate their hippocampus
Their hiphoppocampus, His lyrics are canyonus
But, but I though undocumented immigrants were lazy?! How can they both be lazy and take all the jobs?!
Don’t forget they’re also criminal murderer drug dealers. They take all the jobs, and steal everything, sell everyone drugs, then kill them all, but they’re lazy about it. /s
Schrodinger’s immigrant
Oh no, farmers lose the indentured servants they’ve been threatening with deportation for years!
Fucking morons. Enjoy getting your hands dirty.
California farmers are some of the most ignorant people I have ever encountered.
I’m guessing the reason they didn’t want to say who they voted for is cognitive dissonance.
Woah there. That’s a pretty damned broad brush you are painting with. In fact it’s a pretty damned ignorant comment.
Do you think EVERY farmer in California is a Republican and/or Trump supporter?
Edit: Before you down vote (but of course feel free), kindly consider this: 89% of all farms in the US are small-scale family farms with less than $350k revenue (note that profit margins in farming hover around 10%). A growing number of new farms are organic/sustainable/agroecological. These are not Trump-supporting people, ffs. Please ask yourself what purpose it serves you to over-generalize and angrily shake your fist at ALL farmers as if somehow all farmers are conservative. All you are doing is furthering the industrial food systems narrative of farmer=bad. Think about it.
Do you think EVERY farmer in California is a Republican and/or Trump supporter?
The ignorant ones probably are
Of course. And there are many. But there are also many farmers in California - I am one - who would never in a million years vote for Trump or anyone like him.
No, just all of the ones that I’ve met.
All what, 2?
As someone who comes from a rural area and whos ancestors were made up of farm owners, farmhands, and engineers who worked with both the two previous most, modern farmers especially those fucking profligates in the central valley are dumb as shit and ignorant as all hell. They are highly traditional in the worst ways, my ancestors figured out drip farming for orchards over a hundred years ago yet its championed by those mouth breathers as some great breakthrough.
Hate to break it to you but most of our ancestors were farm owners or farmhands.
“modern farmers especially those fucking profligates in the central valley are dumb as shit and ignorant as all hell.”
Why do you have such hate for farmers? Is it that you don’t like food? You feel you have a better way of eating?
I have nothing against the competent ones, but most arent. As I noted they treat drip feed watering as some massive breakthrough when my own ancestors figured it out a hundred years ago.
Also their intelligence states nothing on their ability to produce food, 90 percent of the time they arent building the actual hardware or equipment. The ones reliant on illegal labor are a fine example of folks who could be removed and nothing would be lost. The ones who do their actual fucking job and arent reliant on others running things I have nothing against as a group.
I have nothing against the competent ones, but most arent.
No offense, but unless you are an experienced and successful commercial farmer, you are simply not qualified to make that assessment. And it really shows. Oh don’t worry, I hear this sort of horse shit all the time from people with exactly zero farming experience.
As I noted they treat drip feed watering as some massive breakthrough
Do you know anything about irrigation at all? I suspect not. There are several issues here, but mainly it boils down to basic cost-benefit. I have a friend who’s family has senior water rights for their farm in the central valley. Rest assured, they are perfectly well aware of drip irrigation and have been for probably longer than you’ve been alive. But they flood irrigate, and why? It’s the most cost effective method for them in their situation. You can complain all you want about whether that’s the “best” method for other reasons, but’s the most sensible approach for their farm.
It’s notable that this is the only example you can give.
Also their intelligence states nothing on their ability to produce food, 90 percent of the time they arent building the actual hardware or equipment.
This sentence is completely nonsensical. Are you saying that you are judging they are not competent because ability to produce food aside, they aren’t spending their time programing embedded C**? That they don’t build equipment?
I really don’t even know what you mean, but some basic facts are completely untrue.
- Take ANY farm and you will find that farmers make their own equipment constantly. Farmers as a whole are constantly innovating in order to gain efficiency. That you don’t know this is a basic fact of life for farmers everywhere is perplexing.
- Farming is all about gaining efficiencies at ever step in the process but a the same time you don’t get a lot of seasons in your life to test out new methods, meaning you have to balance innovation with risk constantly.
- 90% of a farmer’s time is spent on the basics. Planting, harvesting, marketing, business management. What else would you expect?
The ones reliant on illegal labor are a fine example of folks who could be removed and nothing would be lost.
Completely FALSE. Early on in my farming life I worked on a farm that made use of undocumented workers. These same workers came back to this farm year after year where they had a welcome home and were paid well. The owner of the farm relied on their labor because he could not find their skills anywhere else, and I believe it - I worked side by side with them and they were amazing. Nobody local could compete even if they wanted to do that work. I earned less than half of their wage and totally respected that.
The ones who do their actual fucking job and arent reliant on others running things I have nothing against as a group.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
** In the winter I build various Arduino devices for controlling irrigation, greenhouse temperature controls, etc. I’m hardly unique in that.
This is a difference in philosophy it seems, let me elaborate better.
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All functions of a farm should be done by a farmer on the day to day, harvedt season not withstanding. Be it mechanical repairs, land improvements, or botanical work.
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Maintenance of resources, I dont care if its more cash efficient since thats irrelevant. Proper maintenance of raw resources of things like water and soil will pay in dividends a hundred years from that point. I will stab folks who flood water.
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Construction of equipment, the over reliance of shitty companies like john deer is pathetic. I get it to a degree but the fact of the matter is that farmers should be trying to build up the required infrastructure to circumvent their BS monopoly copyright be damned.
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Use of illegal labor has no excuse, its exploitation clean and simple. I dont care if they have skillsets you need, lobby for an improvement to the visa system. If ya need something done in a specific way increase pay, work quality, and give them the proper time for training. If not I dont care if your fields blight.
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Waste of resources, shit shouldnt be left to rot. If ya cant harvest or its dollar inefficient then you shouldnt have planted. If its a grove then cut it down.
And then finally, I have worked on a farm. My great aunts to be precise the day to day was just us. I was payed 20 an hour and I did everything from repairing fences to jury rigging a 90 year old tractor back to life just to use it to tow the sowing machine. I am of the opinion that to run a farm ya need to be as independent as possible and as resource efficient as possible, also cash doesnt count as a raw resource.
And then finally, I have worked on a farm.
Really? I couldn’t tell. What I can tell is that you’ve never owned and run one.
All functions of a farm should be done by a farmer on the day to day
In theory I don’t disagree. In practice, you need to hire people. That’s just the basic economic reality when margins sit at 10%.
Maintenance of resources, I dont care if its more cash efficient since thats irrelevant.
Are you kidding? How long do you think any given farm will survive if they only invest in things that pay dividends 100 years form now? It’s a balance.
I will stab folks who flood water.
You don’t even know that sometimes it’s more environmentally friendly, do you? That’s how ignorant you are.
Construction of equipment, the over reliance of shitty companies like john deer is pathetic.
And this is the farmer’s problem how? And it’s Deere.
Use of illegal labor has no excuse, its exploitation clean and simple.
Even when that labor is paid fairly? Even if not using it puts you out of business completely? Even if you ARE lobbying but getting nowwhere?
Waste of resources, shit shouldnt be left to rot.
Who says it is?
I mean basically it’s super easy for someone such as yourself who has never had their livelihood and everything they’ve worked for for many years on the line to have very strong opinions and spout off these simplicities. Frankly I find your attitude and much of what you write laughable.
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Even if they’re not they’re using too much water
Do you like to eat?
Maybe farm somewhere that rains?
That’s an incredibly stupid thing to say on so many levels.
It seems likely to me.
It seems likely to me.
Why? How many have you personally met and had a conversation with? Are you aware that there are thousands of small organic farms in CA that are run by smart, dedicated and progressive people?
Not many. But we’re not really talking about hobby farms.
But we’re not really talking about hobby farms.
You are misinformed and I strongly suspect do not know the technical definition of “hobby farm” but are using that as a term of derision to dismiss small farms so you can maintain your fictional notion that farmers are bad people. Have you thought much about where that prejudice comes from?
The vast majority of farms in California are under 300 acres. In the US 89% of all farms are classified as “small family farms” by the USDA, meaning they have less than $350k of gross income (GFCI, technically). Now you’ll see terms like “production value” mixed in with such reporting. Know that there’s an inherent problem with that - it’s geared only toward commodities, not speciality crops and particularly not those sold retail. That’s an important distinction.
Further, there has been a wave of new organic and sustainable farms popping up in California over the last 10-15 years. Do you think Trump supporters are starting small-scale organic/agroecological/regenerative farms?
I am by no means saying that large-scale industrial farms aren’t dominated by right-leaning people. But to generalize and outright dismiss farmers as a whole displays not only ignorance but prejudice that, critically, is tremendously damaging to small-scale organic/agroecological/regenerative farms as a whole.
89% by number of farms or by acreage? And do you have to sell your products to be called a farm, or does a small sustenance farm or backyard vegetable garden count as a farm?
And come one, dude. I’m happy you and some of your buddies aren’t Trumpers, but I spend a lot of time in Central CA and didn’t see any Harris signs anywhere. It’s Trump-land outside of Santa Barbara and SLO. Driving up 5 or 99 between LA and SF it’s all “Barbara Boxer created this drought” signs.
89% by number of farms or by acreage?
You couldn’t be bothered to look it up, eh? These are commercial farms - it’s the number.
And do you know what? The second someone asks about acreage in this context I have them pegged as someone who does not understand a damned thing about farming. Why? Because you the median net return for an acre of conventionally-grown corn is less than $130. The median net return for organic speciality crops can easily be $25-30k per acre or more. And yes, you can use that as a proxy for actual people fed.
Acreage means nothing in terms of feeding people. So tl;dr, do some research on what the USDA means by small family farm and learn about how those small family farms are feeding you. Why the fuck would you dismiss them like that?
Go on, go to a farmer’s market and ask any farmer to estimate how many people they feed relative to the size of their farm.
but I spend a lot of time in Central CA and didn’t see any Harris signs anywhere
LOL. You know why? Because we’re not stupid and don’t want our tires slashed. If you are a liberal in a red county you keep that to yourself.
Hello Fuck Around, have you met my friend Find Out?
Sadly these rich farmers won’t find out anything… They’ll say there’s shortages because of the deportations, whether there actually are or not, and will jack up prices to more than cover their profit at consumer expense. They fuck around, WE (and the
slavesimmigrant farm workers) get to do the finding out.
It’s because they can use it as a threat to keep the workers cowed.
Lol.
Didn’t he have to bail farmers out last time due to his horrendous policies?
And farmers didn’t learn?
That’s pretty stupid? Is our food safe?
The bailouts ensured they didn’t have to learn. The only thing better than selling a product for money is selling less product for the same amount of money because the government subsidized you to offset their shitty policies.
Removed by mod
Too bad it’s mostly the cities here declaring themselves as sanctuary cities for the undocumented. Weird that Latinos make up such a huge majority in the central valley, too, but haters gonna hate and boy does rural CA love to hate.
If someone opens a farm in the city they will have all the workers!!!
But no land
According to this, urban farming seems surprisingly viable due to yields being so much higher than big ag farming. If we grew on rooftops and replaced parking lots with growing space, a city could theoretically become food self sufficient.
Completely agree. It’s extremely viable and should be pursued more. There’s enough vacant land, especially city-owned land, for it to totally work. And you are right about yields, but with a caveat. The issue is the lack of people with the skills and experience in actual production farming - where high yields and high quality are the focus. What happens all to often is that people get enthusiastic, make a big investment, then there’s nobody to carry it through multiple years and through the inevitable trial and error that occurs in any new growing situation. It doesn’t help when people massively undervalue the skill required and essentially call farmers morons, as we’ve seen here. That means often (a) they are not willing to invest in people with the skills and pay them adequately; (b) they assume high production farming is easy and they can do it but then bail when the fail. I personally have been involved in or know of probably a dozen urban farming projects that have failed. It’s sad to see.
The parking lot idea is awesome! I have never thought of that. You can buy an old run down parking lot in a rough area for super cheap and turn that into an urban farm.
I love that for you lol
Poor farmers they have to actually get their hands dirty. Poor guy.
FAFO
Fuckin’ dumb-dumbs. FAFO.
Its just another fafo, nothing to see
