- cross-posted to:
- technology
- luigimangione
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- technology
- luigimangione
- [email protected]
Right now, on Stack Overflow, Luigi Magione’s account has been renamed. Despite having fruitfully contributed to the network he is stripped of his name and his account is now known as “user4616250”.
This appears to violate the creative commons license under which Stack Overflow content is posted.
When the author asked about this:
As of yet, Stack Exchange has not replied to the above post, but they did promptly and within hours gave me a year-long ban for merely raising the question. Of course, they did draft a letter which credited the action to other events that occurred weeks before where I merely upvoted contributions from Luigi and bountied a few of his questions.
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user4616250 will now be a famous meme. “How do we fix healthcare? We call user4616250.”
Do not forget me user4616250
Look down, look down You’ll always be a slave Look down, look down You’re standing in your grave
"He knew that man was me. Without a second glance! That Micky Ds employee spotted me. The crime stoppers bounty is his chance!
Why should I try to hide? Why should I go unkown. When I have come so far. And struggled for so long?
If I speak, I am condemned. If I stay silent, they have won!
I am the ceo slayer that got away. They all are looking at me. How can I abandon them? How would they live. If I am not free?
If I speak, I am condemned. If I stay silent, I am damned!
Who am I? Should not this wage slave benefit. Pretend I do not feel his agony. This innocent who can be set free.
Who else should face their judgment. Who am I? Can I conceal myself for evermore? Pretend I am the man I was before? And hide my crime until I die.
Be no more than an alibi? Must I lie?
How can I ever face my fellow men? How can I ever face myself again? My fate belongs to capitlism, I know. I made that bargain long ago. I gave them hope when hope was gone. I gave them strength to journey on.
[He appears in front of the court]
Who am I? Who am I? I’m Luigi!
[He unbuttons his shirt to reveal the scares of a botched surgery]
And so UHC, you see it’s true. This man bears no more guilt than you! Who am I?
user4616250!"
Anytime a CEO does something questionable; “/ping user4616250”
A musician needs to write a catchy tune to put the name to so people will remember the numbers.
♪ 0118 999 88199 9119 725 …3
Oh this takes me back! Thanks for the laugh you triggered :)
0118 999 881 999 119 725… 3
“calling user 461-62-50, he’s our dude, what he does is nifty!” :)
Get Vikas Music, he’s based enough to put it to eurobeat.
It will likely take months, but I’m gonna try. I might give up before it is done, though.
I believe in you. If it isn’t the new 867-5309, hopefully it will at least be the next 6060-842.
Luigi, when the CEO fell.
Luigi, Luigi, who can I turn to?
You give me something I can hold onto!
Things can’t stay the way that they were before
It’s time to put some villains up on the wall!Luigi I got your number!
I think it’s hero time!
Luigi don’t change your number!Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!Luigi Luigi you’re the guy for me
Oh, you don’t know me but you make me so happy. I tried to free you but I lost my nerve. I said “nullification” but I got censoredLuigi I got your number. I think it’s hero time. Luigi don’t change your number
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!
Four six one six two five oh!I got it (I got it) I got it
Put those assholes on the wall!
I got it (I got it) I got it
For the good of, for the good of us all!Luigi, Luigi who can we turn to
(Four six one six two five oh)
To know our pain, we can always turn to you. (Four six one six two five oh)
I suggest these guys
Nice and catchy, but it needs to be catchy with more digits. Tommy “Tutone” Heath is still alive. I’m just saying.
Moat famous number since 24601
It’s like squid game where they identify you by a number. Long live user4616250
Please let it be, haha
I was thinking tattoo…
Headquarters seems to be:
70 White Lion Street, London, England, N1 9PP
To send all your angry letters too.
Make sure to include bullet points
Bullet points work best when using a 9mm font size.
(Approximately 25.5 pt. Now, the closest traditionally named font size is 24pt, called “double pica”, and Pica Pica is the latin name for the magpie, who is known for stealing and hoarding shiny things. What does this mean??)
Settle down, Charlie Day.
Someone’s been reading up since they recently became literate. Thanks Abbott!
PowerPoint is seldom used in the Mafia because of all the bullet points.
Marked as triplicate
Gottem
I used to live in that neighborhood. That must just be one of those places that gives people an address that looks fancy methinks
It’s a place called “Spaces” seems like companies rent a small room or so as a physical presence.
Definitely not any kind of HQ. I’d be surprised if more than one or two people go there for Stack Exchange. Mostly remote employees?
Stack Overflow has been toxic for a long time already. It’s one of the things that a lot of people seem pleased to see AI devour.
I’ve read it is still well valued because people will keep asking questions there when LLM can’t answer, so they remain a precious source of post LLM curated Q&A.
…for now.
Until it’s just AIs answering questions asked by other AIs while human admins block human accounts…
Solaria, here we come.
Just started reading Foundation, it’s very well written.
Isaac Asimov should be required reading for everyone.
Right? We have to read Shakespeare and Dickens, boring. So far, Foundation has had actually unexpected things happening and it engaging.
Valuable information source becomes bot recycling machine…? Hey, I Reddit before!
Yeah, AI has become good enough at this point that you can provide it with a large blob of context material - such as API documentation, source code, etc. - and then have it come up with its own questions and answers about it to create a corpus of “synthetic data” to train on. And you can fine-tune the synthetic data to fit the format and style that you want, such as telling it not to be snarky or passive-aggressive or whatever.
It can reproduce an api. Can’t solve actual problems. LLMs are completely incapable of innovation.
That’s not really true though… They come up with brand new sentences all the time.
No, they can only take from things in their models.
Moreover, all of them use statistics, typically Bayesian, to get the results. What you get from an LLM is essentially an average* of the model data. This is why feeding LLM output into a model is so toxic, it’s already the average.
- Yes I know it’s not really the average, but for laymen us good enough comparison.
They only take from the statistical distributions of words in the context of preceding words (which is why they never say “the the” etc, why the grammar is nearly always correct). But that doesn’t mean that whole sentences are lifted from the source material. There are near infinite paths through those word distributions, and many have never been produced by humans, so LLMs do produce sentences that have never been uttered before.
They couldn’t produce new conceptual context spaces in the way that humans can sometimes, but they can produce new combinations within existing context spaces.
It can but you to closely midwife it into doing so.
And yet the synthetic training data works, and models trained on it continue scoring higher on the benchmarks than ones trained on raw Internet data. Claim what you want about it, the results speak louder.
The results aren’t worth the expense. So-called “AI” is the biggest bubble since the great recession.
Nah, I’m still giving that one to the blockchain. LLMs are going to be useful for a while, but Ethereum still hasn’t figured out a real use, and they’re the only ones that haven’t given up and moved fully into coin gambling.
This is the peak, though. They require new data to get better but most of the available new data is adulterated with AI slop. Once they start eating themselves it’s over.
You are speaking of “model collapse”, I take it? That doesn’t happen in the real world with properly generated and curated synthetic data. Model collapse has only been demonstrated in highly artificial circumstances where many generations of model were “bred” exclusively on the outputs of previous generations, without the sort of curation and blend of additional new data that real-world models are trained with.
There is no sign that we are at “the peak” of AI development yet.
That might be true if any human could reasonably ask a question there now. Ask a question, and you are likely going to see it removed for a variety of reasons.
To be honest, I had a bad experience a few years ago when I wanted to try contributing, and I never tried again. Yet, I think it’s really hard to strike a balance of freedom and constrains for organically curated Q&A, so I try not to be too fast on judging them considering the service that they indubitably provided to millions of people.
Time to boycott the platform!
I haven’t really had an issue with SA toxicity.
I cross posted this to Hacker News (which is very pro-CEO and big corpo) and it’s now rank 1 on the front page, lmao. People really support this guy
(And it’s funny because in the comments, people are seething “Nooooo he’s not popular, look at these polls that show he has 13% approval!!”)
(Not sharing link to avoid brigade)
The submission has been clearly penalized by hn moderators: Posted 3h ago, upvoted >600 times with almost 500 comments, ranking 23rd on the front page. Ranking first currently is a submission with 80 upvotes, posted 1h ago.
Wow, they also changed the title lmao. I posted it with the same title as the article
What does hn refer to?
Hacker News. it’s a link aggregator website and forum at news.ycombinator.com
Thx
Np
Even if the 13% number were accurate - that’s a pretty damning number. 13% of people supporting someone for gunning down a CEO in cold blood is terrifying to CEOs.
That’s not 13% hating them. That’s 13% of people celebrating someone for killing them. No lawsuits. No trials. Just gunning them down in the streets. Things have gotten really bad when you have that much of the population actively supporting your murder.
If billionaires were protected as we protect children in schools, we’d literally run out billionaires in a month.
You promise?
This is the only solution to modern world problems. Imagine how many problems we would solve right away if we started gunning down powerful people, CEOs, politicians.
That 13% would also be people who would openly admit to supporting his actions. There are a lot of people who condemn his actions publicly but in their own minds…?
“Look at our corporate polls! Stop liking him!”
Hackers
Pro CEO and Pro Corporate
What fuckery is this?
Live too long and become a villain
Wait, seriously? WTF is it named hacker news? Hackers are the least corporate people out there…
Because those are the equivalent of Hippies that turned Yuppies.
Yuppies are weird because it was originally just a way to keep them in the news (“new movement! new group! news at 11!”) and be ridiculous. They got the DoD to sign a contract about exactly how high they were permitted to levitate the Pentagon.
And then it had it’s own Eternal September moment. But everything seems to.
laughs in Google “do no evil”
Most American hackers need a security clearance to work, you won’t find them supporting Saint Luigi online
Lmao it has 3x as many votes as anything else on HN but the moderated pushed it all the way down to page 3 (position 60-something when I just checked).
What kind of world have we come into where Hacker News is a pro corporation website?
Hackers used to be the antithesis of big corporations and capitalist overreach.
What can Stack Overflow’s motivation possibly be to strip Luigi’s account? Are their private equity owners in cahoots with health insurance executives?
A connection I may be inventing comes to mind: all the CEOs making million dollar donations to the new administration in the US.
Basically, show you’re on the side of “law and order” and hope you’re not caught up in any purges.
Preemptive compliance.
In tejas we call that bootlicking
In Netherland we call that “kontkussen” which both means “butt kissing” as a verb and “butt pillow” as a noun.
Kiss the ring.
It’s pretty standard when a highly-publicized murder suspect’s online profiles are discovered. Platform admins will typically disable/hide their accounts from the public while investigations/trials are ongoing. This is hardly unique to Luigi.
Do you have other examples? Because the article gave an example of a similar account that was not anonynized like this. Sure, accounts are often taken down, but the content isn’t left up.
How would this apply to the fediverse
It would depend on the software in use, but i think the instance admin could probably delete the account. About renaming… maybe, fiddling with the database. Again, depends on the software (and admin).
It probably wouldn’t, because it’s unlikely anyone is going to do the work, especially since there are a lot of jurisdictions involved. That’s a lot of work for a relatively small userbase.
I’m starring this cause I want to look into this myself, and if I find any technical sources that address this claim and actually detail this as a SOP, I’ll reply with that source later, or otherwise reply with “I didn’t find anything.”
deleted by creator
Source: your ass
maybe its poisoning the ai training
deleted by creator
They’re scared of Luigi still, got it
That’s not what the article is about. Stack Overflow has kept content that Luigi created up, but removed his username, in violation of Creative Commons. Edited the post to make that more clear.
If they weren’t afraid of what he represents they wouldn’t have removed his name.
Yeah exactly. And they’re not allowed to under the Creative Commons licence
…and yet…
Which is exactly the reason we are in a post discussing it.
Yup, it would be interesting to see this tried in court.
May I suggest a European one?
This is the equivalent of a bank robber standing in a vault, filling his bag full of jewels. One of the hostages yelling “You can’t do this, it’s illegal.” Some other guy yells “…and yet…” minutes before police sirens can be heard outside.
I look forward to Mangiine catching wind of this, which is basically theft, and adding it to the laundry list of things to be tried in court.
Indeed, I wonder if we’ll start seeing reforms before or after a copycat strikes.
I doubt before. They’re still hoping they can erase or villainize him. I expect the news media will ignore his trial in favor of whatever antics Trump or Musk are up to, and we won’t hear much about him until there’s a guilty verdict they can parade before the masses in order to dissuade them from copying him. If he does get mentioned, they’ll be trying to frame him in as negative a light as possible and downplay his motives. I also expect the big social media will censor discussion under the guise of not promoting violence, or simply shadow ban any mention of him.
deleted by creator
No, they’re terrified of us now, they know we tasted blood and are hungry for more.
I know I am. I’m so sick of this system they’ve created and perpetuated for decades/centuries. I just want to live my fucking life without worrying about basic needs, or how someone with most can take even more from those who have little. Americans have more guns per capita than almost anywhere else. Those are guns in the hands of the people, not mercs or armies or private security. They should be afraid of us. They should be checking their car’s undercarriage daily before getting in. They should vary their routes daily to avoid patterns. They should see every person on the street as a potential assassin. Only THEN, will anything about these parasites’ attitudes change.
Unfortunately, so many with the skills to engage in revolution are aligned with the interests of these corporate leeches, and thus are fighting the masses, instead of standing with them. They wanted a Civil War #2, it’s time to kick up, not down!
Most gun owners are biggest bootlickers out there… They didn’t get weapons to fight corporate tyranny, they got them to shoot poor people they don’t like
Actually, they got them to shoot gun-wielding home invaders who threaten (if not attempt to murder) their family members.
Fucking terrified. I’ve never seen corpos circle their wagons like this before. It’s hilarious.
On Stack Exchange, all of the contributions on the site are contributed under a license maintained by a third party called Creative Commons […] the work remains properly attributed.
This is the main issue IMO
Yeah, I edited the post to call that out specifically
By this logic, everyone charged (not convicted, just charged) should have their accounts and submissions changed in the same manner as Luigi’s.
Man I sure wish this’d mean all Trump-generated content and speeches got deleted. That’d be genuinely helpful to the world at least…
Didn’t he confess though? That’s quite a bit different than a pending trial.
The presumption or admission of guilt does not and should not justify violating the Creative Commons License, nor perpetrating any illegal behavior agains any individual(s).
If JK Rowling went out and robbed a bank, or murdered an ex-Husband, in no world or timeline would that give a member of her publishing company the right to scratch out her name from any of her books and replace it with their own or someone else’s.
should not justify violating the Creative Commons License
Absolutely. Even a guilty verdict shouldn’t justify violating the Creative Commons License. It should either be completely taken down/hidden, or left in-tact.
That’s not at all what I’m saying though though, I’m saying that it’s reasonable for the site to take action to hide the account. He’s a public figure with an apparent confession, which is going to attract a lot of attention to that account that otherwise wouldn’t be there. They shouldn’t have done it this way since it violates the Creative Commons License, but I am saying that action to hide/disable the account is warranted.
So far, all I’ve found is a 2018 publication by the Police Executive Research Forum, entitled “The Changing Nature of Crime And Criminal Investigations”. It’s a 67 page document, and I’m curious to see if it discusses how their investigation tactics may have changed, and if so, whether the aforementioned tactic is mentioned as being included.
I didn’t find anything. But I also work 40 plus hours a week, so that doesn’t necessarily mean there’s not something out there. But it’s more likely the case that this might not be true, from what I know.
Another comment way down claims it’s standard operating procedure for social media sites to disable/hide and account of a highly publicized murderer, particularly during investigations. However, the provided no examples nor sources or technical documents that detail this as something that is genuinely done as a standard procedure.
I’m kinda gonna do my own research on that, but I feel the validity of Stack’s actions would to some degree depend on the results of researching that claim, and whether or not that is true.
It’s kinda difficult to research something like that though when most highly publicized murders predated social media in its current form, so it would be hard to have a lot of examples despite there being a decent number of people who fit the bill, ironically.
Pled not guilty. No he did not.
Pretty much everyone pleads not guilty, especially in a politically motivated murder charge (there’s always a chance of a hung jury or jury nullification). That said, his manifesto could be considered a form of confession and will certainly be used as evidence to that effect.
He pled not guilty, it really is that simple.
Innocent until proven guilty.
I never said he was guilty, I said he confessed. A plead of “not guilty” doesn’t necessarily mean you think you’re innocent (i.e. you perjure yourself; the 5th amendment protects against that), it just means you want to go through a trial. You can confess and still choose to go through trial proceedings.
To add, plenty of innocent people give false confessions of guilt. It’s a known pattern in human behavior especially under stress and duress.
I have no information to say whether this case is an example of that one way or the other, but just putting that out there.
I’m just saying that there’s probably enough evidence that it’s reasonable for a social media site to pull/hide his profile despite not being sentenced. He’s obviously innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn’t mean his profiles are immune from vandalism and whatnot.
I was not aware he confessed and can’t find anything saying he did. Do you have a source confirming he’s confessed?
It’s more his manifesto, which has a clear motive.
That’s fucking bullshit.
Censorship needs to die.
platforms like this are essentially private ownership of the commons
“Cancel culture” as a term has been abused, but this one… damn this is really cancel culture.
deleted by creator
Apropos of nothing, this was an article about substance from a year ago:
Substack faces user revolt over anti-censorship stance on neo-Nazis
Fuck substack.
Shit, this article is about stack overflow, not substack. Too early, but still fuck substack.
“Censorship forced me to flee a pro-nazi site to another pro-nazi site,” is a contradiction worth noting. It highlights the general pro-nazi vibe going around big tech.
There’s plenty of leftists, too. But the leftists threaten capital, and fascists don’t, so only one is being targeted/censored.
Corporate fascists need the muscle that the stormtroopers can provide in exchange for the loot they pillage.
That’s what we are seeing with the last 10-15 years resurgence of the alt-rights grift.
deleted by creator
Fair enough
deleted by creator
I got you. You and I, brother - for a moment there it seemed anything was possible, but I guess the John Birch Society never went away.
Capitalists were always going to embrace fascism in the face of rising leftist movements and increasing inequality. Communist theorists predicted over a hundred years ago, and it’s been playing out exactly as they said it would.
deleted by creator
It’s about SO but on SS so you were still right!
As of yet, Stack Exchange has not replied to the above post, but they did promptly and within hours gave me a year-long ban for merely raising the question.
Laws mean nothing anymore. Therefore licenses mean nothing. Therefore ownership means nothing, and “theft” no longer exists.
Therefore ownership means nothing, and “theft” no longer exists.
WOAH WOAH WOAH… hold on there Circuitfarmer (checks clipboard) It says here you’re not nearly affluent enough to circumvent the law… we’ll be keeping a close eye on you… --BB
I managed to convince my brother in law by using the wrongful death case of Kanokporn Tangsuan as an example. Framed it as his moral responsibility to never sign up for any digital media ever again since he has a family. I pointed him to a few resources to sail the high seas and he’s got his high seas pc hooked up to his TV and cancelled all his subscriptions. I’m so proud.
deleted by creator
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Jfc y’all sound like magats
There is no law forcing a company to spread your message for you.
There is when Stack is using a creative commons license.
No there isn’t.
Stack Overflow is privately owned by Prosus. You have certain limited rights to the content they host but they do not have the obligation to keep the content up and they even have user terms that every account agrees to: especially for moderation.
If they’d just removed his content outright, I would agree with you. But if they’ve left his content up without attribution, that does violate the CC agreement, of which they are upheld by.
I mean, it’s still a small copyright violation whom the proprietor of is a bit preoccupied to do anything about, so uh…this whole thing is quite dumb.
Idk if usernames count as “attribution”, even, but I assume the results would be the same if an account was named Jeremy Assface, Ted Bundy, or Adolf Hitler even if the user’s actual name was such. Not to compare Luigi to any of those people, no, but the point is usernames are moderated.
usernames are the only form of attribution that makes sense and has ever been used (aside from email, which is again practically a username)
They agreed to terms when they operated under Creative Commons.
In my experience it’s usually the magats who are the ones defending asshole and/or immoral behavior by pointing out that the offender is acting within the bounds of the law or within their legal rights.
Idk, I feel like Luigi Mangione being a phrase not allowed on Stack Overflow just makes sense. Good policy.
“No wars but class wars” as true today as when Trotsky said it many decades ago. Not sure how anyone cannot see this very, very clear fact, made self evident by the treatment of Luigi and the composition of the upcoming administration and its supporters.
But every other commoner that sees it needs to take according measures.
Culture is not our friend.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
“Trickle down economics only occurs when the wealthy bleed.”
Similar, and appropriate. The working class will only benefit once the wealthy are no longer wealthy.
Righteous censorship, got it.
Can’t have a “terrorist” demonstrating his competence and productivity after all.
The overlords know they’ve really fucked up when the competent, productive people start getting resentful and side-eyeing the system.
Don’t worry everyone, the new President is going to rename the Gulf of Mexico and annex Greenland, so that will take care of it!
I hope he nukes the moon next time i he’s n hot water.
True, although it may also be “good things” done by person do not outweigh “bad thing” done by person. I’m sure there’s a name for that.
Like human experimentation. Yes, bad, shouldn’t be done, outright illegal, immoral, inhumane, but has been done. Should we discard the scientific results?There should be efforts to duplicate the results in an ethical way, the lack of rigorous ethics indicates biases. If you tortured a guy for research, did you also do less bad things like falsify results?
The Stanford prison experiment is a good example, afaik they published in several journals and I don’t believe any of them have printed retractions. There are huge problems with the methodology that are still being discussed, and the results are still being referenced.
Obviously no… We hired these criminals so they can keep doing these experiments in the US!
Righteous censorship is only “righteous” because everyone else is prevented from saying otherwise.
Stopped using stack overflow ages ago because of how many assholes there are there.
I also stopped posting there years ago for much the same reason. You could feel the strangulation of the community as duplicate questions started getting shouted down, posts got turned into “community wikis” against your will and your own questions started getting edited to better fit someone else’s plans and ideologies. The company was sold shortly after, so maybe animals can sense their pending extinction (some of them anyway)?
I miss those days when writing an answer genuinely felt like helping to grow the global community of friend developers. It’s a shame no technology has been discovered that will let the small amount of collective good in us all work together against the assholes, but alas it seems the opposite is always true.
What’s even more annoying is when their refinements end up putting an objectively wrong answer as the authoritative record.
I found a question where someone new to electronics was how to get more current from a USB power supply.
The “correct” answer that was posted before the question was closed was that a source can’t limit current and the questioner should learn more about electricity.
The actual correct answer - and probably what the questioner was looking for - is to short the data lines together because a compliant USB charger will only supply 500mA by default, not it’s stated max current.
What drives me mad is when a question is closed as a duplicate, and when you look at the duplicate it’s either for a different version of the product and thus the answer isn’t relevant, or the question straight up wasn’t answered there either.
Increasingly, I find the answer is in the comments, or not at all
The company was sold shortly after, so maybe animals can sense their pending extinction (some of them anyway)?
More likely the changes were made to improve the “saleability” of the website.
I miss those days when writing an answer genuinely felt like helping to grow the global community of friend developers.
One of the promises of the internet was, supposedly, that it couldn’t really be monopolized because the barriers to entry were so low. But what we’ve seen is the influence of the Networking Effect as a means of consolidating user bases, combined with a cartel-style censorship that limits the degree to which word-of-mouth can influence a nascent community’s growth.
And now the AI comes to fully alienate us from each other, leaving even the more token communities with a “am I talking to a real person or a computer facsimile” lingering dread with each passing year.
“How do I get this working in 22.04?”
“Previous question answers this.” Tagged as best answer
“No, the previous question answers it with a method that was removed in 22.04”
silence
your own questions started getting edited to better fit someone else’s plans and ideologies
That hits hard for me. Not that someone changed the spirit of my answer but that someone completely reworded it without my permission. It was almost like they were trying to steal my idea without running afoul of copyright or something.
You don’t want to go to Pornhub then
You’d probably get better coding advice in the comments.
It’s 40% assholes People who delete “Hi,” From the first line of the question Because a modicum of politeness and humanity is inefficient And don’t get me started about the XY problem solvers Stack exchange gamifies rudeness and dismissiveness.
I got a decade old question closed as a duplicate.
You can just ask an AI anyway since it’s training set will basically just be stackoverflow.
Just tried this and the AI told me my question was a duplicate and my post was removed.
the entirety of stackoverflow is not enough data to make the AI work properly. They need terabytes of text, stackoverflow has about 50-100GB of useful data at most
Plus AI is actually happy to answer your random questions, with an immediate response. Stack overflow will quickly become obsolete as AI gets better
AI is just regurgitating old stack overflow. It’s not going to get better.
AI is going to get worse, while stack overflow will be superceded by better resources in the future.
It would be pretty neat if Sal Kahn created an alternative, but that’s very different from his existing project.
