Hi there, I came here to the BIFL Lemmy out of suspicion that the reddit posts are just unlabelled marketing, and I was wondering the possibility of sourcing goods that are more to a BIFL standard? In my area, second hand goods tend to be really quite poor in quality (reselling fast fashion) or otherwise not present, and I have not inherited anything that does last. So I would apprecite advice or reccomendations for finding goods at a BIFL standard. I was also wondering if maybe there would be anyone with good advice for finding sustainable, local textile production so that I may be able to tailor what I need without having to buy from the poor selection aforementioned, does anyone know of any of this?
TL:DR I am suspicious that a lot of what is claimed as ‘BIFL’ has been enshittified, and would like advice on being able to search for sustainable goods for a local area (not specified because I’m hoping for advice with searching, not exactly for specific reccs)
You must log in or register to comment.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
i think one thing to keep in mind with BIFL is that it’s gonna be painfully expensive, and we tend to have a skewed perspective since a lot of what people buy these days is second hand and thus nowhere near the original sale value.
Like has been said for new BIFL stuff you want to look for business/industrial stuff, or handmade things from passionate people, which is not cheap.
I think it’s pretty unrealistic to expect most of your things to be BIFL unless you can get second hand/inherited things, i’d say think about what things are most important to you and try to invest your money into those few things and find ways to make everything else as minimal and sustainable (and cheap) as possible.
For example people in the medieval era and before generally just wore simple leather turnshoes in the warm seasons, which were fully expected to wear out and they’d need to slap together a new pair every now and then. But that’s fine because literally all you need to make them is some crummy leather scraps!I use Goodonyou.eco to check out fashion and beauty brand’s ethical standards. It’s not perfect but it gives a pretty good ‘quick view’ of whether they’re dog shit or not.
In terms of BIFL, other than my Sunbeam Coffee filter machine, we’ve taken to buying second hand or locally made furniture.
thank you for the site suggestion :) I always struggle to track down the ethics of companies, which leaves me in a kind of choice paralysis.
Seems sunbeam is pretty popular around these parts haha, happy cake day by the by
good advice for finding sustainable, local textile production
There largely isn’t any of this. There’s really very, very little in the way of locally-sourced textiles, and what there is is going to be art rather than functional. I don’t know where you live, but in the US, there are only a handful of mills that remain, and you’d need to be placing a mill order (e.g., hundreds or thousands of yards of fabric) in order to do business with them. OTOH, there are often local tailors that will be able to order high-quality textiles to make bespoke garments for you. The downside is that this is REALLY expensive. For instance, I’m a bit slow at patternmaking, and not the best at fitting, and if I charged only $25/hr, you’d be looking at around $100 for the initial sloper, and probably another $150 to tune the fit. From there, patterning for a specific garment can take a day or more, depending on what you want, and that’s not including cost of materials and sewing time. For a bespoke suit, you’re starting at about $5000 from an experienced tailor.
That aside, there are certainly a large number of things that are buy once, cry once. Take kitchen knives; if you buy a Yoshimi Kato nakiri, a good set of Shapton glass stones (…which, TBF, will probably cost well over $1000), and take care of it, it will easily last your entire life. If you buy furniture from highly skilled carpenters, you’ll likely be buying something that will last over a century as long as it’s not abused; my grandfather made Craftsman-style furniture and cabinetry in the 20s-30s, and I know for certain that a number of his pieces are still around and in use. But buying the kind of quality and craftsmanship that will allow certain products to last for a lifetime is NOT cheap. While expensive doesn’t always mean quality, high-quality is almost never inexpensive.
On the topic of knifes, my cheap store brand knife lasts for 5 years now without ever seeing a sharpening tool. I think knifes are just hard to fuck up.
I have a 12 euro kitchen knife from 2005 that I sharpened twice, and a 8 dollar kitchen knife from Ikea that I never sharpened that’s from 2012, and they both still work fine. I thought I would be sharpening every couple months, but these kitchen knives.
I’m not cutting paper or cans with them, but they cut though tomato so it’s not even that bad. I’m on your team, I think knives are done, we did it, the tech is fully matured
What I’m looking for in a knife is shaving cleanly and easily; a knife can be fairly dull and still cut a tomato.
One test I’ve seen is rolling up a single sheet of paper into a tube, standing it on it’s end, and then cutting diagonally slowly with your kitchen knife. You should be able to cut the tube of paper cleanly, without knocking it over. If not, your knife should be honed or stropped.
deleted by creator
It depends on what you want from a knife.
I want a knife that will take and hold an edge, will resist chipping and setting into a bend, but is also fairly easy to re-sharpen. For what I want, san mai forging using plain carbon steels gives nearly the best results. If you want a knife that will be extremely tough and resistant to rusting or staining, plain carbon steels would be a very poor choice. My favorite vegetable knife needs to be cleaned immediately and oiled lightly after every use, and is absolutely not dishwasher safe. Most people would prefer a stainless steel construction over a knife like that.
Different people have different needs. All I want is chopping onions and not worrying about it too much. If you have different needs, then I guess my knife would be pretty bad for you.
Sharp knives work considerably better for that; you’re less likely to slip off the onion and hit a finger.
Fair point.
American Giant (i think) grows and mills their cotton in America and the garments are made in the US as well. Last I checked. I don’t wanna say it’s BIFL, but I have an American giant hoodie I bought probably 9 years ago that I still pull out every fall and wear until spring. It’s got holes in the elbow patches, but the elbows are double or triple layered, so it’s still warm.
I am coming down from a migraine, so please forgive me being jumbly, but I have a few points:
You say that many BIFL posts feel like marketing, and I agree, but I also think there’s also an additional, more pernicious aspect to it all. By that, I mean that many of the “genuine” posts felt like they were inducing in me the headspace of having been marketed to. This is largely a me thing, in that when I went searching for recommendations, I was aiming to buy something. Idk, something something commodity fetishism. But in the end, I found that I was questing for some perfect product that would be reliable, but I needed to stop thinking so much in terms of products.
In practice, this meant that my quest towards BIFL would have been better served by not buying stuff at all. Don’t feel obligated to watch if you’re not someone who enjoys 40 minute YouTube videos, but this guy considers “what the hell is ‘high quality’ in fashion?” and many of his points apply more generally than fashion, imo. One of the big points in that video is how the language we use to try to describe high quality will inevitably be appropriated; for example, I bet you would be dubious of any jeans that describe themselves as being “high quality”. So one phrase that became popular a while back was jeans made of “selvedge denim”. However, because people treated “selvedge denim” as being equal to quality, there were a lot of shitty quality jeans made with selvedge denim that I don’t trust that phrase anymore. Maybe once upon a time, selvedge denim jeans were, on average, higher quality, but that’s not true anymore.
I think BIFL was about this quest for quality is doomed to failure. Product quality is generally worse nowadays, but also the language we use is a bit rubbish. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any shortcuts.
Regarding tailoring, unless you’re already proficient at sewing, you should consider finding a local tailor who can do minor alterations. Even this is difficult though, because finding a good tailor can take multiple attempts. People I know who have a good tailor are almost fanatical in their loyalty, likely because of how useful it is to have one. This is why learning to tailor one’s own clothes can be smart, but good quality fabric is super expensive and it may be best to practice on clothes you already own. (N.b. I am using tailoring to mean something different than making clothes from scratch. I can semi do both, so I don’t know how hard it is to learn one skill but not the other)
For finding good fabric though, word of mouth is a big thing. I went to a craft fair a while back and I asked a knitter where she gets her yarn from. She advised a big site that I was already aware of, but also spoke of a place that she buys from when she’s being self indulgent. A friend spent a while trying to find authentic fabric for historical re-enactment, so I asked her where she got stuff like that, and got a few more recommendations. I go for crumbs of recommendations wherever possible, and I really enjoy asking people for advice, even for things I don’t necessarily, because it makes me feel more rooted into a community; when I started crochet recently, I already had a bunch of yarn intel. Also, before then, I really relished having advice if anyone asked me about yarn advice. I kept notes on what people said was good.
But also, if you do get into making and tailoring clothes, a lot of this is knowledge that you’ll gain gradually. I think there is some notion of what “objectively good quality” means, when it comes to textiles and the like, but it’s also fairly loose and subjective. I found this tricky because I too, have nothing to inherit (besides a sturdy ice cream scoop that my mum stole from the military), so I am very familiar with shitty quality stuff. When I first started indulging in higher quality materials and products, it was splendiferous, but it took me a while to learn that I could go too far with chasing value; after a certain point, cost comes down to exclusivity and rarity.
Once I’ve woken up more, I’ll share with you some examples of what looks good quality textile stuff near me, in case you find the perspective useful. I understand why you didn’t want to say roughly where you are, but perhaps if you said your country/state, I could point you towards community resource type things, because there truly is no replacement for getting intel from people local to you, if you value local production. But also, a big strategy for finding local stuff is to consider the concrete material conditions of how things are made: I went to a local fabric shop, and made notes whenever I found things that looked nice. Local shops are also nice, because whilst they are obviously there to sell stuff to you, I feel far more free to ask “I’m looking for some high quality wool to make a coat with, what would you recommend?”. It’s okay to make notes and go away and research (it’s even okay to purchase the wool elsewhere if necessary, though good to support local businesses if you benefit from their knowledge). Some of the fancier bolts of cloth will have a brand on them. This is how I found out about Linton Tweeds, a fabric mill in the North of England that has a lot of history. Another time, I saw a large mill on my way up to Scotland, and I later googled that mill. This is a clunky way of saying that although a heckton of stuff is imported and the products are separated from their context of being made, that there are still crafts people making high quality stuff. It’s often a heckton more expensive (and the more expensive, hand made stuff isn’t necessarily better quality than stuff made with more industrial methods), but it’s nice nonetheless to feel more connected to things. Building up things is gradual, especially if you don’t have much high quality stuff to start with, but don’t be overly precious about things. Ultimately, you don’t need high quality stuff to be able to care about things enough to repair or modify them. Part of how you can undermine fast fashion is by making the most of the lower quality products you currently have now.
I was told the rotring 600 was bifl. Nah I put it through the ringer and it didn’t last a year. The metal pusher thing just flew off because it’s poorly designed.
I got one yesterday and I’m thinking about returning it. It feels very underwhelming. I expected higher quality.
I think it got enshitified when Newell bought them out. The older rotrings might be better quality. I have two of their pens because customer service sent me one for free because I said it broke off. It’s still a nice weighted pen and I still use it. I just try to be nice with it now. I even got a few of my friends to get the rotring pen and pencils
I discovered that much of my problem was the stock ink that came in it; it felt terrible to write with. I ended up ordering a Parker Jotter and replacement ink, so I’m trying both out to decide which I like better. I think I like the form of the Jotter better, but it’s quite small and light. I like the weight of the rotring 600 more. I think I’m going to try both out and return one of them. Or just keep them both, I haven’t quite decided yet.
My tiny contribution here is to look things aimed at commercial use, not consumer grade. For example, next time you need to buy a can opener, buy it from a restaurant supply shop instead of Amazon or Walmart.
Same with electronics - instead of a smart TV from Amazon get an industrial TV from B&H or similar (they’re the kind used in store displays like the menu at burger king etc)
Bonus is they likely won’t have “smart” features or AI
Yoooo, that’s the best! Fuck smart tv’s sideways
Specifically, if you want just a tv monitor display(IE no smart tv but also sometimes no speakers or even no remote) you’re looking for what is often called a “Professional TV” usually listed under a brands commercial signage section.
For example: https://www.lg.com/us/business/digital-signage/professional-tvs you can also often purchase directly from a manufacturer these days.
Aren’t those kind of TV’s notorious for not being able to handle movement very well? Like, they can do still images no problem, but have afterimage problems if something is moving across the screen for example.
I’d also be concerned about lag, especially with how many of them will be used on mute exclusively
B&H being B&H photo?
Yes, although there may be better retailers out there. I am just very familiar with B&H from my job.
Gotcha, they are a good company in terms of pricing and staff knowledge. They are bad to their employees and the ownership is pretty racist.
Wow. I wonder if any similar retailers like Adorama are any better, I’ll have to do some digging. Thanks!
Thank God for markertek and dale pro audio then.
I’ve heard similar advice around purchasing restauraunt quantity plastic wrap, so that’s great advice!
And when doing home repairs don’t get contractor grade. It’s the worst quality possible. I do extensive amounts of cooking and most of my stuff has been from restaurants supply stores, antique shops or handmade by me.
deleted by creator
Your first two sentences were promising, but then the following sentences didn’t lead me to where I thought you were taking me, haha
So if “contractor-grade” sucks for home repairs, what grade is actually good?
Unfortunately most items don’t have standardized labeling. You can frequently find “contractor grade” or 'builder grade" listed but you won’t find much beyond that because no one wants to put 'retail grade" on anything. You have to look at the items. Does it look like metal but it’s plastic? Trash.
It’s a bit like how you’ll see things advertised as being made of “aircraft grade” aluminum.
I’m an aircraft repairman, there is no such thing as “aircraft grade” at least in the United States; the aviation industry does not maintain its own standards for metallurgy, it uses SAE standards, and a lot of different alloys get used in aircraft for various applications. Sheet metal skin and structures is usually 2024-T3, you’ll see 6061 or 6065 in castings, hell they make pure aluminum rivets for fastening placards. So most things that say “aircraft grade” on them usually mean they’re 6061-T6 or similar. which is legal for use in aircraft construction if its properties are called for in the design. It’s just some wank they can legally get away with putting on retail packaging.
For me aircraft grade aluminum is right up there with space age technology. The space age was 50 years ago.
Ugh I always hated that phrase. Like, space age technology is ball point pens, Tang, and those MPET blankets you find in first aid kits. Oh and freeze dried ice cream.
It really really does not mean shit at this point.
To a large extent I tend to think the same way I was taught with cars, simple is sturdy. Skip the fancy features and WiFi widgets and you’ll replace things a lot less often. It’s not always practical, but I’m willing to bet my cast iron cookware is going to be in roughly the same shape far longer than some stamped sheet metal with anti stick coating and a glass lid.
practical minimalism, adopting it as a life philosophy has made things way easier.
yeah, i absolutely agree. I tend to want very little, which helps me to not have to be buying things too often, especially since I go for things that are simple enough to serve some function without much else. Does ‘simple’ stuff that is made today have a similar quality to things that have proven their durability over years?
I guess that’s hard to say without the benefit of time behind it. Part of why you see some brands show up over and over though is that they have the history to back up the claims and plenty often those places are not going to risk that reputation of reliability to cheap out on the quality now.
People frequently ask me about appliance advice. I always told him to buy the absolute basic model. Every extra feature is one that can break.
I think it depends on exactly what item you’re looking for. Plenty of vintage coats out there, I just bought two 40+ yo military wool coats this season since my old jacket is wearing out and isn’t that stylish. There’s probably local jeans manufacturers that also recycle fabric, like Jeansverket in Sweden. Rose Anvil on YouTube is a good source for finding boots that will last decades.
There is definitely enshittification out there, but it’s not impossible to find BIFL out there.
Recycled jeans is actually a really good suggestion that I hadn’t thought of, I’ll look into it, thanks :). May I ask where you bought the military jackets, even if it was just ebay or something? I’d like to expand my knowledge of storefronts, and I am horrid at searching for them.
Look for military surplus stores. Military surplus stores are hit or miss on availability and quality, since they buy in bulk containers. Check over the piece of clothing thoroughly for damage.
You can also buy some of coats brand new from manufacturers like London Fog. They make an English officers coat that is lovely
is there a difference between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ military surplus stores? the ones I’ve seen appear to be replicas, or clearly not local surplus, which causes me some concern
yeah, the jeans I bought weren’t recycled, but they do have a system for recycling them when they’re worn out.
I bought a 1942 army great coat off of ebay, lots of them up there. I bought a 1980’s navy peacoat at a random vintage store somewhere around Alphabet City in NYC. Be aware that most people size those coats 4-6 down because they’re meant to go over multiple thick shirts, blouses, and midlayers in military use, but with a normal shirt and sweater you don’t need them so large.
do you have advice for finding stuff on ebay? when I try it tends to seem like a lot of ‘not what I searched for’ listings
yeah you just have to find words that are unique to the thing you’re buying.
I usually searched for 1942 army greatcoat, since those words are pretty unique.
I am suspicious that a lot of what is claimed as ‘BIFL’ has been enshittified
Sadly, I’m sure this happens a lot in the name of “marketing”.
There are a few things that I look at to help ensure the best chance of getting something that’s BIFL:
-
Does the company or product have a good track record? I’d trust my Leatherman to be BIFL over whatever no-name clone you see on Aliexpress.
-
Does the company offer a lifetime warranty (or one that’s 20+ years)? If so, has the company been around for decades?
-
Is the item repairable and easy to maintain? Even if something isn’t marketed as BIFL, you can likely extend the product’s life by decades through simple maintenance and care.
-
Does the item have any built-in planned obsolescence features? Proprietary built-in battery? Components that are glued in place? Sealed shut so you can’t open it without destroying the item? etc…
-
Is the product simple or complex? The more complex, the more likely it will fail, but this isn’t always the case if you are able to maintain/repair components.
-
Textiles can be tricky, but not impossible to keep going for decades if the quality is good enough.
Sadly, I do think that many companies aren’t interested in making BIFL products because PROFITS!!! I think the market for BIFL will be more with custom fabricators and small businesses.
deleted by creator
For sure. Some things really can’t be made to last forever due to their function.
But every attempt should be made to make things easy to repair, or recycle when it’s at the end of its lifecycle.
Baking in planned obsolescence is what we tend to see these days, and that’s a decision by the company to do that for nothing more than profits.
I wish governments would force manufacturers to make products that last longer than they currently do. Even if they frame it as an environmental initiative.
For instance, non-removable batteries should be so rare that it would be hard to find a product made with one.
One thing I would watch out for is “has the company been purchased by another company?”. If the answer is yes, then the product has almost certainly gone to shit and you should definitely not rely on older reviews, etc.
That’s an unfortunate reality. Yes, for sure, be cautious of that!
Does the company offer a lifetime warranty
jansport backpacks. but when i sent them a backpack i’d been using since the 90s that started coming apart, they replaced it with the shittiest cheapo version they have
so unless the product only has one version of a thing, don’t be surprised when they replace your $80 thing with the $20 version
That sucks!
I support a company out of Quebec that makes bike panniers. They ended up sending me free replacement parts to fix a SECOND HAND bag I purchased locally.
Some companies have certainly enshittified their warranty, but hopefully that’s not too common.
Two Wheel Cycle Gear? If so, I absolutely love them. I have a one of the convertible pannier backpacks, and absolutely love it.
I’ve got a few of their handlebar bags, but I was referring to Arkel. Their cam lock latch is bomb-proof!
For convertible pannier backpacks, I picked up two Arkel Bug packpacks off Kijiji. But I’ll admit that the Two Wheel backpack looks better.
Cool, thanks for sharing those. The cam lock looks solid. The klick-fix system that two wheel uses is solid, however it’s popped off once
Klick-flix is a good ecosystem, but not easy to find in Canada. I have a Tern folding bike that uses a klick-fix front mounting block and I can seap from front basket to rack to bag if a wanted, because they all interface with the same mount!
Other than the Arkel bags, my only other experience with rack mounting systems is with cheap ortlieb knockoffs 😂
-
BIFL is certainly possible, and there are some things that aren’t for life but still last a long time.
Unfortunately you really need to look for them.
It’s unfortunate that product reviews don’t really focus on this kind of thing.
Another annoying aspect of searching for BIFL things is that (and I have no evidence of this, it’s just a feeling), whenever I search for BIFL things and search results take me to BIFL communities, it’s always the same companies mentioned, to the point where it often feels like company astroturfing.
To be fair, only a minority of companies produce products consistently that last longer than their competitors
That’s true, and part of why I say I don’t have any proof/that it’s just a feeling of mine.
Maybe I’m just being overly pessimistic, but there’s a few companies that BIFL on Reddit seem to really like and never shut up about. Maybe my fears are wrong though.
Regardless, this Lemmy BIFL community is so small it won’t even be on companies’ radars, so I’m not worried about it here for the time being
Throwing in a little odd advice for the secondhand scene - even if the shops are bad, I’ve had some good luck with estate sales and cleanouts (where a family or realtor basically opens the home to anyone who’ll cary stuff away and save them the trouble and cost of throwing it out). It can feel kinda bad, picking through stuff in that context, but we’ve saved a bunch of nice old tools and kitchen stuff that way, and the houses generally have everything else you might need for a house. Personally I think the best BIFL stuff is old and made before they really perfected enshitifying their products.
The cleanouts I’ve been to we found through postings on our local free groups (which I also really recommend) or word of mouth, but I used to know some folks who went to them professionally, looking for merchandise for their own businesses, so they must be advertised somewhere normal people would find them too.
Ok, I will try to find more dying people in my area, thank you!
“this list is incomplete, you can help wikipedia by expanding it”
You can also search for estate sales proxibid.com
seems a useful site. shame it’s US-only by the looks of it, though.
I’m in the US and would be happy to browse the site for you 😀
Oh, no, I can access it, it’s just that it seems to include a map of auctions, but due to not being in the US, visiting them isn’t really an option.
That is an awesome site, sadly not a single one listed in my state.
just quickly replying again because my last could have come off wrong, I do genuinely appreciate the advice, I’ll just need to find out how to find these sorts of scenes.
No worries! And good luck!
Military and police gear tends to be local, high quality and available as second hand. If you can tailor and it somewhat suits your style then it is a good option.
If you are able to tailor, try to find a group. They will have local knowledge and know where to find quality cloth and other products.
thank you for the recommendation :) I’ve looked at military disposal sites local to my area before, though they’ve seemed a little off, but I will redouble my efforts. Do you know of any good ways to find sites that sell proper used mil/pol gear, rather than just being named so?
Basically any military surplus store really. Online stores all tend to have very aligned pricing so but you cannot inspect the (used) item for issues, sizing, stains or damage, etc so I’d recommend finding your local military surplus store - just recognize that you’re thrifting not shopping. Not everything is available, nor worth having necessarily, and it’s commonly been worked hard and not cared for before it found its way to the shelf.
If you want to roll the dice and get some serious deals, there’s usually a liquidator or auction website for your local PD and/or government to offload their outdated but workable gear and tech. But they usually have very particular rules around shipping and pickup, you arrange all that on your own.
My experience with military gear is the opposite - it was designed to last long enough to use, with the recognition it’s going to be lost or destroyed in battle.
That, of course, depends on the item. Older stuff can be quite sturdy. For example, I have a 1960’s self-contained analog multimeter that’s in it’s own aluminum case (looks like it was designed in the 50’s, just post-WWII). It’s clearly been banged around (the case is rough) but it still works, and is designed to be regularly adjusted - there’s a sticker or label inside showing the last time it was adjusted.
It seems stuff from at least the 1980’s (probably the 60’s, really) had more of a “built just good enough” design goal. Regular/continuous maintenance isn’t much of a concern for the military as compared to us civilians.
Is it possible, yes. There are almost always options for BIFL in whatever product you’re looking for (sans tech etc.). It’s mostly from small niche brands that you’ve never heard of and can’t find in stores that specialize in quality but isn’t cheap. How you treat you’re stuff also plays a huge role on if it will last a lifetime or not, a lot of stuff requires maintenance that people don’t think about. The Iron Snail is a great YouTube channel that covers that type of clothing. And if you’re ever looking for something specific, make a post here lol.
I’ve never been good at finding these things, would you know any methods or resources for finding these ‘small, niche bramds’?
Honestly, no. There’s no easy way to find these brand. It takes a lot of time and effort to find the right brand or product to buy. It has to be basically a lifestyle choice\hobby to buy quality goods. Every time I buy something I’m not familiar with will take hours of research to find one company that makes a decent version, or sometimes not finding a single one.
Over time you can find trusted sources for honest reviews and comparisons in specific fields you can go back to for recommendations. There are some short hand that can help. Like where a product is made tends to make a difference, no company has ever moved production to China to improve quality lol. If a company is privately owned is also a good sign but neither is a guarantee.
guess that’s the real fault with enshittification, huh? thanks for the advice for picking through things!
