- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
It’s brief, around 25:15
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nf7XHR3EVHo
If you’ve been sitting on making a post about your favorite instance, this could be a good opportunity to do so.
Going by our registration applications, a lot of people are learning about the fediverse for the first time and they’re excited about the idea. I’ve really enjoyed reading through them :)
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I say give it three years and blue sky will just be a neolib twitter
Anybody who supports the definition of liberalism is an ally, imo.
Yeah, infighting in the resistance is a waste of time.
I feel like the DNC are being pushed into a blindspot for the general public.
All Bernie has done is go around to speak at different events, and he is far from the only politician to do so.
Not friendica, which seems an obvious facebook alternative.
Also, I think they’re onto something with their fuck it approach that every social media platform would benefit from. The internet was mostly that before. Content moderation primarily serves advertisers, it was never really for the people. Old internet anarchy was chaotic fun.
Content moderation primarily serves advertisers
I’m lost, here. Do you not think fighting toxicity and hate speech is a valid and important function of moderation that’s just as much or more for the sake of the people as it might be for advertisers?
The Internet was never supposed to have a central authority beyond the DNS tables.
Imagine traveling down a liminal space of tubes and the only signs are nondescript TLDs.
Can anyone explain Bluesky vs Mastodon as Twitter alternatives, asking as someone who never really used Twitter much anyway?
On the surface, both of them look very similar in format. They also both advertise themselves as decentralized and different from traditional social media, arguing that they won’t face the same problems old social media did.
Mastodon uses ActivityPub, which is the widely used standard that most other fediverse platforms use. Mastodon is properly decentralized, where all the servers can interact and operate independently.
BlueSky made their own protocol that they control, citing that ActivityPub wasn’t enough for what they wanted to do, and in some ways that’s true. However with their structure, a central relay is needed in order for different instances to interact and so people argue that it isn’t truly decentralized. Right now BlueSky is either the only instance, or basically the only instance. They’ve mentioned that they could transfer control of the relay to some other organization, but past that I don’t think they’ve taken any steps towards that.
BlueSky is also a VC backed company while Mastodon is now under a nonprofit. BlueSky has its roots in crypto tech. There is more technical discussion on if it’s even possible to have a decentralized BlueSky and if it’s all just talk while they gather users.
My personal opinion is that I really hope bluesky does what they’re promising, but I’m not expecting them to be any different than Twitter once they get a critical mass of users and the investors demand profits / infinite growth.
Bluesky is what happens when someone with a corporate mindset wants to make something new and good. Mastodon happens when hobbyists get together and make something. Ive heard BlueSky has a board of people in charge to make sure it doesn’t end up like twitter. Exactly what one would expect a company to do. Make sure something doesnt go wrong? Put a few people in charge. Mastodon just has the whole community. I may be wrong here as I dont use either. Right now Im just wondering what will happen when BlueSkys provider comes knocking with the hosting bill. As mass social media migrations are rare, its just a shame people are leaving twitter for another big tech site instead of something more community grown.
from what i understand, a decentralized bluesky is nothing for an enduser at all.
TL;DR: the cost for an enduser to run a bluesky instance will soon be prohibitive because of the amount of storage needed owed to its shared heap architecture. but what it does is to provide a “credible exit” - if users lose trust or the company shutters, there’s nothing in the way of another organisation picking up the mantle and continue from there on.
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Not Lemmy though. Based.
Yeah I think it’s best we don’t advertise this place. It’s a little strange.
We need to get more people in here if we want it to actually be a Reddit competitor. Right now it’s good for some communities, but smaller ones are still extremely underpopulated.
Come to Lemmy, we got: blood thirsty Linux users, furries, femboys, communists, and tankies. Also, porn.
Well, reddit has nothing at this point, so it’s better than the competition.
The porn is sadly lacking, actuallly.
Be the change you want to see
Ain’t nobody wanna see that.
Being humble is sexy!
Only you
How much do you need!!!
What exactly does a DragonTypeWyvern tail look like? Is it long with scales?
Depends on the kind of wyvern
And knives.
And beans.
Don’t forget the Trekkies.
I see a lot more Trek memes here than on reddit and I love every one
There we go. I was waiting to be represented.
A flying squid, too.
Don’t forget Margot Robbie
Wait how is Squid this popular? 😂
He has the most posts and comments on the Lemmy activity scoreboard.
I’d say it is more notoriety than popularity.
Its not, this incident will be reported to the nearest democracy officer.
Also dull people
Thanks, Stefon.
Also, porn.
Where is this abhorrent content? I need to know so i can avoid it…
Is sh.itjust.works not federated with lemmynsfw.com? Or maybe you use a Front page or Local feed. Here on world (no comment on the instance wars), lemmynsfw communities pretty regularly show up on my All feed. Seems like whatever they do with posts over there really makes the “Active” sorter happy, if you know what I mean
That’s what I was wondering. For a while I swear naked images of Rinkunn were more prevalent than The Picard Maneuver. I’m an All user mostly out of curiosity but disappointed that I think world defederated from one of the major furry ones cause that dropped considerably.
Wait, is disappointed the right word? I guess it is, although maybe i just miss their positivity. I’m still cool with hexbear being defederated, after all. Lol
It definitely was federated back when I made my acct here, as I had to block it lmao.
*porn involving some or all of the above
Often most of those at the same time.
Don’t forget the No Poop Challenge
I could see people promoting Piefed and Mbin instead.
It’s no different than reddit, DIGG, or the Something Awful forums before they got popular.
Which is why it’s based that it wasn’t promoted
It’s good to have some friends, but don’t let too many normies in…
We reached a point a while ago where yall saying shit like this became the “normies”
a while ago where yall saying shit like this became the “normies”
Ohh it’s normal for us. But there are still a lot of sports all-consuming, rabble rousing, linux hating, clue collar people still on Reddit, any I don’t mind them staying over there.
Nieche communities are very quiet here though.
They are, probably even too quiet. But the level of griefers, bots and trolls is very very low, and selfishly, I REALLY like that.
I wish he had mentioned Lemmy, but it’s understandable that he didn’t. Also Bluesky isn’t an alternative to big tech, it IS big tech. I wish it wasn’t stealing so much of our publicity lately.
But beggars can’t be choosers, and we have seen some nice growth over the past couple months. John Oliver fans are the perfect candidates to join the fediverse, hopefully some of them find their way to Lemmy.
John Oliver being uploaded to YouTube is awesome! I should comment that Lemmy is a great Reddit alternative
Exactly, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Someone using BlueSky over Twitter is a good thing.
Indirectly, looking up “John Oliver Mastodon” brings up this post in the top few. “John Oliver Pixelfed” has this post as the first option
So we’re not completely left out :)
John Oliver fans are the perfect candidates to join the fediverse, hopefully some of them find their way to Lemmy.
Too late - we are already here!:-P
How can anyone not love the guy?
I think he plays the awkward card to actual cringe levels at times but I’ll also watch Cody’s Showdy so that can’t be it entirely.
Can’t say I love him, but I do appreciate the work he does.
Haha, yeah Cody has definitely made me cringe out of discomfort before. I haven’t watched that guy in awhile! Appreciate the reminder. And Oliver can get close to that level too, for sure.
Also Bluesky isn’t an alternative to big tech, it IS big tech. I wish it wasn’t stealing so much of our publicity lately.
This; I’m so sick of hearing it pop up when people mention alternatives.
I’m not sure anyone mentions bluesky as an alternative to big tech.
Pretty sure they only mention it as an alternative to musk/X.
This right here, the everyday person doesn’t know what federation is let alone believes that it’s an alternative to federated platforms. They see it as a better Twitter that’s not run by Musk and honestly that’s all they need to know.
They haven’t gone through the churn of corporate emshittification enough yet I’d have to guess.
Holy shit! A sane rational Lemmy user in the /c/Fediverse community! Someone who sees the bigger picture, and isn’t just reacting to this small niche area of the internet.
Look, I love Lemmy, but I can’t sit by and act like just because something is a better service, and makes logical sense to use, that people will ever have even heard of it. That’s not how PEOPLE work. Yes, Lemmy is better than reddit. But no, Lemmy will not overtake reddit in usercount maybe in my lifetime. Unless reddit gets sold, and then plummets into death like myspace did. Then Lemmy wins by default, but it’s not the same thing.
And
everyone(well, everyone but you I guess) most people on this community seems to miss all that.I think the uphill battle here is that a good amount of the active users on lemmy are probably very tech savvy. The percentage of us who aren’t, are doing it wrong in their eyes.
Dunno, I like the fact that people here are tech-savvy. My HS guidance counselor said I should always hang out with people that are smarter than I am. That’s why I like it here, everypony seems so knowledgable.
The thing that it really has going for itself is that it simply isn’t twitter. And Muskler made sure that’s a huge deal.
Using it myself, this is technically true but also it’s literally Twitter pre-takeover-- like a fork all the tolerable people started using. You’ve got your George Takei and your Stephen King, etc, so it’s what left of center normies can enjoy without being a little too far (like us, here).
If I’m being honest, I prefer to mix the two communities because a little too much Fediverse can make you go crazy, plus I spread Lemmy ideology there cause someone’s gotta bring up class warfare and Linux, right?
Oh I agree. I’m just not there because twitter was never my thing. Keep up the fediverse propaganda, comrade.
I’m really not happy about bluesky their fragmentation of the fediverse protocols is only going to harm us in the long run.
Intentionally, I think.
Have you heard of bridgy?
IMO bridgy is not well designed. The fact that it requires both the follower and the followee to specifically opt in basically makes it DOA. Both Mastodon and BlueSky are completely open and public in terms of post visibility, so bridgy should have been designed to require explicit opt outs from anyone who didn’t want their content bridged.
Bridgy started without that requirement and it pissed off too many Mastodonians so they reworked it
I’m really not happy about bluesky their fragmentation of the fediverse protocols
shrug, I wish they were with us, but they are also a big ole corporate entity, so I’m kind ok with us staying our our side of the fence. As they need to implement payment and corporate protections to their network, we’re free to be free over here.
is only going to harm us in the long run.
We don’t have to play ball. not with them anyway,
I think, If we have any credible threat, it’s going to be from the Governmental gross anti-tampering laws, forced moderation, or backup regulations. They could make it legally difficulty for us to exist.
I think, If we have any credible threat, it’s going to be from the Governmental gross anti-tampering laws, forced moderation, or backup regulations. They could make it legally difficulty for us to exist
This. I have considerable concern that Fascists will straight up ban Fedi if enough people shift to it. They don’t like not being able to control everything, Fedi is far too much actual freedom of communication.
Bluesky was always twitters goal, they were losing hella money, so they devloped blue sky.
Agreed, but at least Bluesky is a public benefit corporation, so it supposed to take in the needs of society as well as profit in its decision-making. That may not be much, but it’s a start.
“Public benefit corporation” is a meaningless designation. All it means is they have the option of putting their mission over their shareholders, not that they are obligated to do so.
I’m not familiar with the details of that, but it seems like more of a red herring to me. A form of controlled opposition to divert people away from truly revolutionary platforms.
Of course it has to seem like a plausible alternative, but is it actually decentralized or altruistic enough to make a meaningful difference? I think not.
“Public benefit corporation” is such an oxymoron, I know it’s cliché to say this but it reads like something out of 1984.
If your goal is truly to benefit the public, why wouldn’t you start a non-profit? It’s because they want profits, which will always be at odds with the interests of the public.
If your goal is truly to benefit the public, why wouldn’t you start a non-profit?
Because your non-profit isn’t likely to go anywhere; Capitalists don’t give significant money to non-profits, but they’ll invest in a public benefit corporation because of the potential for profit. The corporation can then take their money and use it for whatever public benefit it intends to work towards. It’s a workaround to try and scrape some benefit to society out of capital, that otherwise wouldn’t exist.
Whether Bluesky is actually a good example of a public benefit corporation or not, I have no idea, I don’t use it.
You’re absolutely right, but as a UxD, until these platforms learn UxD, they’ll never work. They can’t.
It doesn’t matter how great they are, the vast majority of people won’t learn. And they shouldn’t have to. That’s why big commercial apps are better – good designers need to eat, and big companies can pay for their eggs.
It doesn’t matter how good your model is, without great UxD, you’re dead in the water.
Their protocol allows for federated relay servers, but I’m not aware of anyone having done the exercise of launching one.
That’s because, to my understanding, the prerequisite to be able to launch one is “handle the raw, unfiltered firehose of all the traffic on the entire platform”. A relay has to be a mirror of the entire company’s hosting infastructure, and you’d have to essentially do it for free. It’s no puzzle to me why no one’s done it yet.
Ah, yeah that makes sense then. They’re over 30M active users now.
Chances are it’s really just that, a start. See OpenAI.
If I was losing money and wanted to mantain control over the public id become a public benefit corp too
So twitter didn’t make money anyways, this is a better way for them to hold power
I agree, but I also think we should remember a loss for musk is a win for society
Do you really think Lemmy could handle the amount of people that Reddit has?
As far as I know the existing instances are usually running on capacity and always in need of donations, and that’s when the owner isn’t handling the costs themselves. I’m not sure how well most instances have right now.
Maybe Lemmy would benefit of some way to get people to pay, such as purchasing the ability to give people awards etc. like Reddit. Despite being useless stuff, it might provide some fun that would make hardcore users want to pay. But for that to work out, all apps would also need to show the posts awarded in a different way, so I think that’s unlikely.
But the point is that without a business model, the Fediverse will only be able to handle a limited number of enthusiasts before it faces scaling problems.
LW definitely can’t handle more traffic than it already has. It already (thanks to the admins’ refusal to update to the latest version of Lemmy, which fixes this issue) takes multiple days for LW content to get federated to other instances properly, which is why I’ve had to switch over to this alt account of mine because there are zero comments on this post in my main instance. With more users, that delay would grow from days to potentially weeks.
Do you really think Lemmy could handle the amount of people that Reddit has?
yup. no question. Not one instance mind you, but Reddit is also a giant cluster. (and clusterfuck)
As far as I know the existing instances are usually running on capacity and always in need of donations,
We just need the big bois to stop stuffing themselves. There’s 0 reason to have 2/3 of the totally traffic flooding into world because people are scared of Federation that they never even have to deal with.
Maybe Lemmy would benefit of some way to get people to pay, such as purchasing the ability to give people awards etc.
Maybe we make some premium pay servers with baller architecture, killer response time, user capacity limits and high speed storage?
But the point is that without a business model, the Fediverse will only be able to handle a limited number of enthusiasts before it faces scaling problems.
Eventually, it’s going to be ads, donations or payments. It’s all someone else’s computer, someone has to foot the bill. But at great scale, you should be able to have an ad-free experience for something in the range a dollar or two a month.
I wouldn’t mind having some ads, but I wonder how some more extremists users would react.
But I strongly believe that depending on donations is a very tough place to be, it places the burden of “begging” on the instance owners, which are already doing all the work and should definitely be compensated somehow.
But I strongly believe that depending on donations is a very tough place to be
If you get a good deal on hosting then, on medium-sized instance donations easily cover costs. lemmy.world suggests this can scale up a lot even if you need more complex systems in place to deal with demand.
which are already doing all the work and should definitely be compensated somehow.
That’s why I donate monthly to my instance :)
A pretty decent sized instance managed will uses a few boxes and some CDN, runs a couple to a few hundred a month, it doesn’t take that many people paying to cover it.
It’s not as bad managing the smaller instances. The app works like it says on the tin until you get really big.
IMO lemmy.world let themselves get WAY bigger than they should have. They had to start doing a hell of a lot more work to keep the thing up.
Isn’t it easier to handle most users on one server than it is to have a bunch of equal servers? Then the problem just moves off the one server towards the communication between the servers being the bottleneck.
The way lemmy (and federation) works, it needs to do a bunch of operations that can’t happen simultaneously, so there’s a job queue. The queue needs to do some database operations and a bunch of communication operations and each of the jobs needs to reach out to distant servers that may or may not be overwhelmed themselves.
You start with one server it costs almost nothing to host. Sooner or later you want to split out the job servers, then you end up needing to split out the database, when you start getting that many people on your server now you want to consider fault tolerance, Even after tuning you can only fit so many simultaneous users on a web server, you end up needing to do some load balancing. The next step would be trying to split it up geography-wise.
That’s scaling up and it’s what big companies do and it’s very expensive but easy for a small team to manage.
Lemmy on the other hand is designed to be scaled out, running smaller individual user bases on lighter hardware with a bunch of individual administrators instead of a organized team.
If people want to be on a large single cluster application Reddit is still there.
I like what we have a lot better.
It costs me less than $10/mo to run mine and some of that is because I have to pay for an email forwarder until my hosting provider lets me start sending emails, part of that is factoring the cost of the domain name. The actual cloud server costs $5/mo right now.
Yeah, you can get away with really cheap operations up until you start blowing through your cdn and communication budget
I’m not too worried about it.
Mom we are on the TV!
we
technically we are federated, so kind of?
federated, kind of
I’m sure he’s going to be facing lawsuits from Краснов and Wormtongue any day now.
I don’t get it
Dipshit in chief and his butthurt-prone sidekick will probably sue.
Are we that degenerate already??
YES! #winning
Cool, everybody can build these companies up so that they can launch their IPOs and be controlled by a new board of directors fresh from wall street. It will all be so different.
Not commenting on Bluesky, but the others have taken steps to differentiate themselves
Mastodon was handed over to a non profit
https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/13/24342603/mastodon-non-profit-ownership-ceo-eugen-rochko
Signal has been under a nonprofit
Being open source also means that people can fork the apps if something changes, or apps + server code in the case of a lot of fediverse software
The whole point of federation is that that can’t really happen, or at least they can fuck a single server, but not the whole ecosystem.
Does that Late Show with John Oliver have a presence in the Fediverse?
You mean Last Week Tonight? The Late Show is Colbert.
Someone on mastodon told me, if you haven’t found someone on fedi, you are probably not looking hard enough. But no, I don’t think they are on fedi
Someone is wrong lol. NFL, for example, cannot do anything outside of Twitter at this time. They are apparently working on it, but it’s gotta be implemented league-wide, so it’s taking some time. Idk if they’re even trying to get onto Mastodon, last I heard it was just Bluesky.
This is a large org with hundreds of millions of fans, with no presence on Fediverse really. I’m sure there are mirror accounts, but none are official.
Good question. Would love that!
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It’s crazy how the wind changed. Does anyone remeber the almost exact same thing 4 years ago, when people on the right side of political spectrum shared alternatives to big tech from their point ov view? GAB.COM, PARLER, BRAVE, DUCKDUCKGO etc
XD
Duckduckgo? That’s just a search engine, no?
I agree on the rest of the parts tho
Yeah, odd inclusion. Duckduckgo is indeed a search enginge, but it’s essentially just a front end for Bing.
Sadly yes :( i’ve been keeping an eye on mojeek, hopefully it’ll get better.
Ecosia is building a custom search engine index, ETA summer 2025
I’m so looking forward to that!
Very interesting, thanks for telling me - i recall them sharing your IP with bing/google? but since they’re building their own, this may change. I’ll keep an eye on this, thank you
Probably not, they sell your traffic data to plant trees, they’re not privacy oriented its just that their greed serves a common good.
DDG and Brave were pushed as “censorship free” alternatives, back when I was looking into covid disinformation, because the very obviously fake websites would sometimes rank higher on them
There may be more to it though
I’ve heard all kinds of bad rumours about Brave but idk if any of it is true.
They’re balls deep in crypto but even the crypto bros don’t buy their bullshit
I mean yeah, doesnt matter. The point is people shared alternatives to big tech just like folks who are not in the power right now. Cause apparently x is musk’s and it looks like the consensus is that rest of big tech is siding with Trump for profit
I mistook it as you saying DDG is alt-tech. My mistake
In both cases it was primarily performative for Americans but this time there will be considerable chunk of Europeans who will be looking to leave big tech for services in non-hostile countries.
How is Brave right wing? Because of cryptocurrencies?
Brave’s business model is a crypto scam wrapped in a protection racket. It man-in-the-middles the site’s ads, replacing them with Brave’s own, then holds the revenue hostage unless the site gives legitimacy to Brave’s crypto by accepting it as payment.
For comparison, “normal” ad-blocking consists of an end-user exercising his property right to control the operation of his own computer by programming it not to display the ads at all.
Hopefully you can see how the thing Brave does is very different, and much more ethically fraught.
It’s not explicitly rightwing.
A couple years ago Musk was recommending Signal.
It’s just an example of right wing people recommending alternatives.
The CEO is problematic and right wing, for examples see the most recent paragraphs in his career section on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich
Wait, the Mozilla guy who got pressured to resign over opposition to gay marriage is the Brave guy?? Fuck him lol.
Unsurprising he’s also a dipshit about COVID.
This is fantastic to see.
someone tell that n00b that Bluesky is not an alternative
It is to twitter.
It’s fun for now until the state gets a hold of it. They’ll be over here sooner or later, just let them trickle in and get everyone used to it.
True. For now I’m happy to just see Twitter lose.
Yeah, the important thing is to get people off the Big Web, we can work on getting them their forever home later.
I feel like there’s a buddhist lesson about impermanence here.
So thats why it was slow for a while.
