The bigots of every culture in human history have always been conservatives. Always.
There is a valid, reasonable solution to conservatism. We aren’t allowed to talk about it on Lemmy, though.
I read somewhere that re-traditionalization is an Europe-wide trend.
Strange, the people in this is community are always so receptive and reasonable when I say Euros are going fascist.
Problem is that when you go back to the.“traditional” usa for example, some parts of europe were already woke at that point. Theres no “traditional” france you can go back to without beong completely ridiculous if the whole traditional thing wasnt ridiculous enough already.
Hey, all you europeans pointing at america saying “what’s wrong with you people”
If it can happen anywhere, it can happen everywhere.
america isn’t special. it’s just one place where hate and fascism popped up in an obvious way. This stuff is happening all over the globe, and needs to be tamped down before it gets too big. Keep fighting, keep pushing, and stop thinking “it can’t happen here” cause it absolutely can, and will.
What are you even talking about.
Of course the Netherlands needs to fight this, but that doesn’t mean American exceptionalism suddenly stopped. Now that more people realize that it’s not “especially good”, but a different kind of “special” entirely, some don’t want to identify with that anymore - but that’s doesn’t mean it’s gone.
“What’s wrong with you people” to these Dutchmen, sure. But don’t pretend that’s not absolutely DWARFED by the same statement aimed at the country lead by an openly stupid, official pedophile rapist, which has gone back to lynching black people and has the secret police shoot people for protesting.
You WISH you had the “bad” were talking about here, because of how much of an improvement it would be.
I blame the social media. Banning it for the underage is the only “nanny state” measures I agree.
I think that instead of a ban we need to teach them how to use them resposably (and not with those stupid videos the gov makes, teenagers just laugh at them) and also to add regulations to ban those algorithms that push hatred and bullshit
I don’t think banning it for the underage is specifically bad, but it can’t be enforced without some bullshit that is bad, and won’t work anyway. However, I think it’s plenty bad for adults too. It either needs moderation, or it needs to be not allowed in general. I’m all for people being allowed to do what they want, but there are points where consumers need protections, and algorithms manipulating them, in the way social media does, is very harmful and needs protections against.
The reality is that something as mundane as social media can have an incredibly debilitating effect on the developing brain of an adolescent.
Corporations treat kids like an experimental playground. I mean, you can just look at the global drop in childrens’ reading, writing, and spelling abilities and realise maybe replacing pen and paper for laptops has been a net negative for their developmental pathways.
Corporations treat kids like an experimental playground
Seeing how many adults go batshit crazy through Social Media, I say it’s society as a whole having become an experimental playground.
When we say this we don’t mean that USA drifted to the right and Republicans won some elections. We’re talking about voting for a racist pedophile with dementia. Twice.
Which European leader shat himself in front of cameras recently?
Keep ignoring the rise of fascism everywhere and it won’t be long before you face the same fucking problem. That’s the fucking point.
Who’s ignoring it? Or are you talking to yourself?
Are you pretending to be ignorant of the rise of fascist in Europe, or are you actuall ignorant?
I’m neither ignorant of it or ignoring it. If that’s what my comments made you think try reading them again but this time focus.
thrice
Some Americans voted for the fat orange fuck 3 god damned times. That said, didn’t Germany just elect a far right leader as well?
targeted by the radical Catholic organisation
I think any Catholic organization needs to shut the fuck up and sit this one out.
Any religious organisation needs to stop surpressing people
Anybody cathode licking is asking for the 9volts. But they’re getting the 12volts soon.
What’s up with young men and fascism? I feel like fascism (as found outside the ruling class) is less a political philosophy or movement than it is a simple expression of human nature. It’s all so bare and obvious, the othering, scapegoating, rallying around an invented enemy. Hell, it’s so primitive, I bet it predates human divergence. I’ve seen ducks suddenly decide one of their own flock has to die, and a bunch of the males mob them. I doubt it’s THAT far removed.
Young girls, too. Their decrease is even bigger:
Gonneke Stevens, principal investigator of the HBSC research and professor of Youth Welfare at Utrecht University, indicates that in the period 2021-2025 among boys in secondary education, the percentage with a positive attitude towards homosexuality has fallen from 40 to 22 percent. “Girls are more positive about this, but this percentage has also fallen sharply among them. Among girls in secondary education, this is a decrease from 78 to 51 percent.”
Social media. It’s unregulated, and allowing people to fall into echo chambers of hate. When all you see is unchallenged radical nonsense you become a radical. The social media companies don’t care what people see, just that they stay on the apps as long as possible. Young men are a particularly vulnerable group - when you feel disenfranchised and worried for the future you’re the perfect target for easy answers from hate groups. And if you get fed more and more of that crap because you watched a bit, it soon becomes all you see unchallenged.
We urgently need social media regulation across Europe - not bans for children (pointless) but complete reform of social media to benefit all ages. Control of the algorithms need to be taken out of the hands of the big US & Chinese tech companies who use to to create addiction and maximise “engagement” to maximise profit, and instead it needs to be run for the benefit of the citizens / user. Public Service Social Media is what we need - much like Public Service Television ensured balanced and healthy TV across Europe in the 20th and early 21st century, we need the same for social media.
Social media is the common factor between the rise in far right hate groups across the UK, US, France, Germany, Italy and more. The changes in the Netherlands are a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.
Social media is unregulated but also in the hands of billionaires. Most of which absolutely hate democracy and think we, the general population are an obstacle to overcome as they work to replace us with machines.
Social media is practically universal; that does not explain why young men are the most right-swinging group. I don’t think it’s just an emergent situation like you suggest. I think that they are swinging hardest because they are most vulnerable to the intentional manipulation we are all experiencing.
While I think the current corporate structure of social media is fucked, I absolutely 100% do not want the government controlling feeds, content, or communication. That’s a path that will lead to an even worse outcome than the path we’re currently on.
Control as in decide whats allowed and whats not? No thank you.
Control as in enforcing people placing illegal content on the internet, from child pron to hate speech to sexual harrasment to doxxing? Yes please. The regular internet and social media should be as safe as the physical world.
Defining what is illegal content is exactly the issue. A photo of two women kissing might be fine where you live for now, but in Saudi Arabia that would be quite problematic.
What’s up with young men and fascism?
Brain-rot rots brains. It is that simple.
We’re all subject to the same brain-rot. What’s up with young men and fascism?
https://feddit.org/comment/15064610
Girls have had a larger slump.
That’s interesting! I think there is a larger trend beyond the metric used in this article, which isn’t specifically talking about fascism.
No, we aren’t. Some are much more targeted.
And why would you specifically target a population? Doesn’t that also suggest that young men are especially vulnerable to fascist ideas? Doesn’t answer the question, just moves it slightly.
Propagandists are just like any other groomer, they pick their targets carefully. Why would you choose someone like me, a 40 year old woman with decades of established politics and ideology you’d have to fight against when you could pick a young malleable person who’s still actively forming their opinions. I’m a lot more difficult to influence to believe in things that are against my best interests, not to say I’m immune to propaganda just that the bang for your buck is a lot bigger with younger less informed people.
I bet my hat it’s social media.
I’m sure many will point to specifics, like bigot influencers thriving on controversy. Or, to play devil’s advocate, the forces astroturfing LGBT support that are clearly inauthentic.
But ultimately it’s all because LGBT controversy is too much of a lightning rod for the engagement algorithms to resist. That’s why it’s rising amongst children.
The EU needs to ban or restrict that kind of social media unless it wants to become a network of Nazis.
Let’s hope the Dutch can reverse this trend. The Netherlands and the rest of Europe rank very high in the LGBT Equality Index, second only to South America, while China and India are among the least LGBT-friendly country in the world, with the public opinion in China notably being far ahead of the country’s legal progress regarding LGBT rights.
China is not “among the least LGBT-friendly countries in the world”, even by your own data there are 15 countries in Europe (9 of them in the EU) that are doing the same or worse than China. And because of far-right rising all over europe this is bound to get worse before it gets better, sadly.
In the ‘legal index’, there are just 3 European countries doing worse than China though (Belarus, Russia and Vatican City)
Wow, you’re right. The previous comment made it seem like they’re at the bottom but it’s more like the middle of the range
Tardigrade’s whole schtick is China-bad posts.
Why would they let data, even if they source it themselves, get in the way of their xenophobic bias?
The sad reality is that the left has been focusing on the wrong issues for some time now and when people are getting really worried about housing and healthcare they don’t see politicians waving rainbow flags as the people that can help them. The far-right obviously is not going to fix anything either but in tough times people look for strong leaders that offer simple solutions so more and more people are slowly drifting to the right.
I’m not sure what you mean. What do you think the Dutch left has been focusing on and what do you think they should have been focusing on instead?
Okay I’ll bite; Immigation yes actually
The Dutch population has been increasing by a steady 0.28% year on year [1] While the birth rate has been stable since the baby boomers at 1.6~ [2]
Dutch immigration predominantly from economic migrants (aka expats) have economic tax breaks making the city centres mostly English speaking. This makes it very difficult for left wing that gain memberships from universities to interact with the lower class that have been driven out of cities by center right market capitalism and a growing additional English speaking bourgeois class.
Center right have exasperated this by refusing to build more housing, the center left have gaslight by using the government’s capitalist policy-to-economic-growth calculations.
Now we have a left with an identity crisis a center that’s very very happy with the economic system of extraction and a growing far-right that talks about Sociaal Rechts tegen de Linkse elite. Go to the book shop and you find “left” authors who live in the expensive city center: actual book: “De Domheid Regeert” where the author, self proclaimed left, complains about stupidity of the working class. Of course the far right love to associate immigrants with refugees because colour. And create the standard National Socialist talking points of nuclear white families and the dangers of LHBTI, further dividing the working class from the actual Left (PvdD SP
Bij1)
It’s not exactly the same everywhere so I’m not talking about Dutch left specifically but about the left in general. In many places they have been focusing on identity politics instead of income inequality and related issues. In Spain for example Podemos was more worried about gender violence and trans issues than jobs for young people. They eventually lost most of their support and were replaced in the coalition by Sumar which is more focused on issues like housing and healthcare. You could see this clearly in recent elections in Andalusia were the far-left parties focused on those issues and did really well preventing far-right Vox from registering any gains. Identity politics are of course important but I would say the shift needed to happen 10 years ago when priorities of voters started charging. When people feel secure the wellbeing of minorities is their main concern but when times get tough they want politicians to focus on issues that affect them personally. Mamdani is another example. Look what he is running on (and DSA program in general) and look what Kamala Harris run on. From wikipedia:
“Harris’s domestic platform was similar to Biden’s on most issues.[15] She supported national abortion protections, LGBT+ rights, stricter gun control, and legislation to address climate change.”
vs
“His platform included support for free city buses and a rent freeze in rent-stabilized housing.[87][88] Mamdani also wanted the city government to operate five grocery stores”
However, the last left-wing cabinet in the Netherlands was in 1973, and the last cabinet with significant left wing participation ended in 2002. So 24 years of center/right coalition. Seems people have to be pretty much brainwashed to believe some left wing party is the cause of their suffering.
I didn’t say the issue is that people blame the left for all their problems. I said they don’t think the left has any solutions. It sounds like in Netherlands the center/right coalitions also didn’t solve their problems so they are slowly drifting father to the right. Not because far-right is so great at solving problems but because the narrative they have is easy to understand and it appeals to people in tough times.
Seems like something is missing in this explanation though. If people don’t blame left wing, and are just voting right to find a solution to their problems, then why is LGBT support plummeting (topic or this article)? There is no relationship between LGBT rights and the housing shortage.
Because right wing ideology is a package. Conservative politics claim that traditional values are the way to go and that everything was better when everyone was white and Christian, women stayed in the kitchen and gays couldn’t marry. You can see it right now in Spain were young kids are suddenly supporting Franco claiming that “back in the day” everyone had a job, there was no crime and everyone was happy. It obviously not true but young people believe it and buy with the entire “traditional values” package. Attacks on LGBT people are also up in Spain because of that even though the main concern of young people is housing.
the far right at least acknowledge the problems. the left basically refuses to acknowledge them because they have invested so much in the ‘men are the source of all evil’ narrative.
and young men basically see ‘why would i support people that hate me.’
and weirdly enough when ‘left wing’ politicians focus on economic issues and not social issues… young men tend to support them… weird.
Did you get this idea of left/right politics completely from TikTok or something?
and young men basically see ‘why would i support people that hate me.’
I think this is true mostly in more sexist societies where men lost a lot of privileges they traditionally had and are now pushing back (USA and Spain for example). In Poland this “all men are evil” wave of feminism wasn’t that visible and now the resentment is more about focusing too much on women issues instead of equality (like “it’s unfair that women get to retire earlier”). It’s still there but it’s definitely secondary issue. At the same time Poland was always more xenophobic than western Europe so immigration is the main issue drummed up by the far right there. It’s the same mix but different proportions.
wait, women get to retire earlier?
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.
The problem isn’t that people are LGBT. The problem is that a small section of them want to ram the whole fucking rainbow flag waving pride and “I’m special, these are my pronouns” bullshit down the throats of people whether they want it or not. That breeds resentment in people to the point it can make otherwise supportive people remove that support.
Gay marriage is the biggest societal improvement since the end of feudalism and aristocracy. Why aren’t you excited?
I’m tired of hetero relationships being shoved down our throats.
Mickey and Minnie Mouse. Superman and Lois Lane. Shrek and Fiona. The breeder mindset bullshit being forced upon us whether we want it or not. /s
As long as people are getting imprisoned or killed for being gay or anything besides cis and straight, you can sit the fuck down and shut up. The problem is you.
The problem is you.
Me too! Me too!
Nobody is ramming anything down anyone’s throat, why is it always described in such a sexually violent way? Weirdos.
Just let them exist and be themselves, goddamn. It’s so easy.
That breeds resentment
If you’re getting resentful because trans people don’t need to hide who they are, then maybe it’s time to look inwards.
I’ll be the devils advocate here and say it’s not the people, but how they receive information. People start to believe whatever the popular narrative is, and treat it as a baseline truth.
If you repeat something enough times, it becomes the truth. That’s what Internet has become. OP probably can’t even explain what they mean here, cause it’s just something they’ve just heard many times.
Wow, it’s the queers fault for living their life, not the fascists forcing ads, bots, and laws against us. Such a shit take.
Let me know when people stop murdering people for being LGBTQ+ and we can talk. Until then, I suggest you sit the fuck down and fucking learn a little bit about human rights.
How far up your list of problems can that possibly be?
This is always my argument for people like this. There are SO many things wrong right now. I get asked what I think about it and I always respond that I have far more important things to worry about, like affordability, retiring, buying a house, etc. So trans/other queer folk’s existance does not bother me. It usually shuts them up.
I just say their existence doesn’t bother me because if all those other things weren’t issues I would still think people can love and have sex with and be whoever they want.
I always say your boss is very happy to have you fight meaningless fights and not him or her
I used to think this too. But I promise you, we’re actively being persecuted in this country. I’ve had to bury friends this year. What have you been doing?
Even if that’s true, that’s not a reason you support parties that take away their rights…
Also social media is responsible for that kind of image of LGBT folks. I’ve talked to plenty, and most of them are sweet people. The activity pub, the protocol that runs this platform has several of their developers that are LGBT.
Amazing impression of a bigot with no self awareness. I won’t be Poe’d twice in one week.
Please, just shut up.
