I don’t agree we can just authoritatively state in broad terms that working fastfood is extremely easy in any framing, especially for shit pay and lack of quality recuperation time associated with getting treated like you aren’t really a human being (more like an approximation of a robot).
I never said “working fast food” is extremely easy. What I said is, listening to a customer speaking and just relying that to a machine is extremely easy.
Doing that for a full shift is NOT easy. Doing that while being stressed because the pay is shit and you might even have another job on top of that is NOT easy. Being treated as a robot for half of your non-sleeping life is NOT easy. But all of those things are not easy for a human. None of these are issues for a software, whose hardest task is simply “listening to a customer speaking and just relying that to a machine”, which is, taking out of the equation human matters like stress, emotions and whatnot, extremely easy.
You are subscribing to an abstraction of the inherently human labor of preparing a to-go meal for someone that assumes one can or should utterly remove the human aspect of that interaction.
…and before someone comes at me with some form of an argument that I am arguing against a future with automation that will be better for everyone I want to emphasize that is again accepting a number of framings implicitly without first critically examining them.
For one, why is the profession of feeding people hot food in a speedy manner in remote places or late hours considered so unworthy of a basic respect that people constantly shit on it as a job?
If it is truly as demeaning and inhuman as we all casually assume when we use fast food labor as the butt of our points, as an insult in the form of association, than why can we only ever ask of technology in the context of the food service industry “how do we remove the humanity from this thing?” and never “how do we restore or embue humanity to this thing?”.
In otherwords, why does fastfood work have to be seen as unworthy of being considered a respectable job? If there is an existential crisis here to be solved it is clearly not with helping massive corporations further slash operating costs and investments in stable decent employment, but with examining and addressing what horrifically went wrong that we have slept walk (by and large) into thinking this is an ok or healthy way to think about other human beings.
…I don’t think I understood your point. I’ll try giving my answers to these questions but I’m sure I misunderstood most of them.
For one, why is the profession of feeding people hot food in a speedy manner in remote places or late hours considered so unworthy of a basic respect that people constantly shit on it as a job?
In otherwords, why does fastfood work have to be seen as unworthy of being considered a respectable job?
Because it’s a terrible job that I don’t think anyone actually wants to do. We’ve already talked about how stressful and unsatisfying it is as a job, there’s pretty much no upside to it.
why can we only ever ask of technology in the context of the food service industry “how do we remove the humanity from this thing?” and never “how do we restore or embue humanity to this thing?”
Personally, because I don’t think it’s possible. It’s a very “mechanical” job (save a very small number of people like restaurant chefs), and giving it “humanity” (less stressful shifts, less pressure and higher pay) is counterproductive to both what companies want (more money) and what customers want (to eat food for cheap and quickly, even at odd times or in odd places).
I think it’s one of the best jobs to be replaced because it’s easy (for a machine) and no human actually likes doing it. The issue is, of course, that the cut costs will go straight to the pockets of the CEOs and will not be used to improve the customer experience (or at least make it cheaper), so the working class will just have less jobs while having to pay the same to eat, but that’s a widespread issue with capitalism that’s far harder to fix.
If there is an existential crisis here to be solved it is clearly not with helping massive corporations further slash operating costs and investments in stable decent employment, but with examining and addressing what horrifically went wrong that we have slept walk (by and large) into thinking this is an ok or healthy way to think about other human beings.
I feel like you’re conflating two things here: people that don’t consider “working at a fast food” worthy of respect (imo rightfully, because again, it’s a terrible job), and people that don’t consider “people who work at a fast food” worthy of respect (probably because they believe in the “hustler” mentality and are convinced that it’s their fault if they’re stuck with a shitty job).
My opinions on a job and on someone who work at said job are vastly different, and not just for the food industry. I’m guessing a lot of people also think similarly, I’ve never seen people shit on fast food workers as people, except for the aforementioned delusional types who think anyone could be a billionaire if they just put in “enough work”.
Again, sorry but I don’t think I really got the meaning of your last comment so do tell me if I completely missed your point and all my answers were gibberish based on assumptions I had.
Personally, because I don’t think it’s possible. It’s a very “mechanical” job (save a very small number of people like restaurant chefs), and giving it “humanity” (less stressful shifts, less pressure and higher pay) is counterproductive to both what companies want (more money) and what customers want (to eat food for cheap and quickly, even at odd times or in odd places).
I think it’s one of the best jobs to be replaced because it’s easy (for a machine) and no human actually likes doing it.
These two paragraph are full of the common assumptions and generalizations we assert as a society about fastfood work and frankly I am tired of having to nod my head and pretend like they are indisputable facts. Nothing you said is evidence, you have just dutifully sketched out the narrative we use to dehumanize fastfood work (and other “essential work”).
My opinions on a job and on someone who work at said job are vastly different, and not just for the food industry. I’m guessing a lot of people also think similarly, I’ve never seen people shit on fast food workers as people, except for the aforementioned delusional types who think anyone could be a billionaire if they just put in “enough work”.
You are participating in a very dangerous slight of hand here by saying that in a society that utterly defines your worth and potential from your job that it is theoretically reasonable to disparage a job because why would anyone ever conflate a person with their job??
Everything about our society conflates the identity of people with their job (especially along vectors of oppression), any attempt to divide those two except as basically an academic excersize is pointless and harmfully obscures the extremely class based rigidity of the society we live in (speaking as a USian, tho I am sure the pattern isnt tooo different elsewhere).
People have been convinced by the rich to think fastfood work is demeaning, pathetic and worthless and I think it is honestly pretty disgusting how willing people are to jump on that bandwagon and do free work for the ruling class in helping undermine worker leverage to demand a decent life.
These two paragraph are full of the common assumptions and generalizations we assert as a society about fastfood work and frankly I am tired of having to nod my head and pretend like they are indisputable facts. Nothing you said is evidence, you have just dutifully sketched out the narrative we use to dehumanize fastfood work (and other “essential work”).
…so what exactly is wrong about what I said? You’re saying they’re assumptions and generalizations but didn’t bring any counterpoint.
People have been convinced by the rich to think fastfood work is demeaning, pathetic and worthless and I think it is honestly pretty disgusting how willing people are to jump on that bandwagon and do free work for the ruling class in helping undermine worker leverage to demand a decent life.
I… really don’t think that’s what’s happening? At least barring the aforementioned delusional people. If anything, jobs that are considered horrible and demeaning like certain teachers and nurses get MORE sympathy from the public exactly because we see that’s a terrible way of living and that’s not okay.
What do you think we should do then? Act like it’s an awesome job and everyone is happy doing it? Wouldn’t that have the opposite effect of making people think all is good and nothing needs improvement?
I… really don’t think that’s what’s happening? At least barring the aforementioned delusional people. If anything, jobs that are considered horrible and demeaning like certain teachers and nurses get MORE sympathy from the public exactly because we see that’s a terrible way of living and that’s not okay
What does sympathy matter to the subjects of said sympathy? The whole “essential worker” thing is a load of feel good bullshit people tell themselves to absolve themselves of guilt for participating in a society that brutally exploits the economically vulnerable.
My point is this is precisely why people both shit on fastfood workers and then tell themselves nonsense about how society treats them as essential workers. It is about narratives around how little someone can be worth and what kind of ideologies become normalized when you decide it is ok to decide for a massive workface that the only way to make their lives better is to eliminate their livelihoods abruptly and without consulting unions or any representative of the workforce in question.
Instead your perspective presupposes this kind of approach defined by serial bullshitters/MBA majors could ever actually be kind and helpful to the people having their livelihoods further dehumanized in favor of bigger and bigger profits.
I suggest we stop listening to tech bros who think what we “need” is to treat fastfood workers like they are temporary replacements for robots until we can replace them completely with robots (which there is no conclusive evidence will ever really work and actually quite a bit of evidence it won’t).
I suggest we start putting robber barons (CEOs of massive corporations) in jail and use that money to raise wages and benefits to fastfood workers. A couple more Luigis wouldn’t hurt either.
This is a war and the ruling class understands that perfectly, I suggest we start acting accordingly and put unquestionable solidarity with other workers first. Period.
I don’t agree we can just authoritatively state in broad terms that working fastfood is extremely easy in any framing, especially for shit pay and lack of quality recuperation time associated with getting treated like you aren’t really a human being (more like an approximation of a robot).
That is my whole point.
I never said “working fast food” is extremely easy. What I said is, listening to a customer speaking and just relying that to a machine is extremely easy.
Doing that for a full shift is NOT easy. Doing that while being stressed because the pay is shit and you might even have another job on top of that is NOT easy. Being treated as a robot for half of your non-sleeping life is NOT easy. But all of those things are not easy for a human. None of these are issues for a software, whose hardest task is simply “listening to a customer speaking and just relying that to a machine”, which is, taking out of the equation human matters like stress, emotions and whatnot, extremely easy.
You are subscribing to an abstraction of the inherently human labor of preparing a to-go meal for someone that assumes one can or should utterly remove the human aspect of that interaction.
…and before someone comes at me with some form of an argument that I am arguing against a future with automation that will be better for everyone I want to emphasize that is again accepting a number of framings implicitly without first critically examining them.
For one, why is the profession of feeding people hot food in a speedy manner in remote places or late hours considered so unworthy of a basic respect that people constantly shit on it as a job?
If it is truly as demeaning and inhuman as we all casually assume when we use fast food labor as the butt of our points, as an insult in the form of association, than why can we only ever ask of technology in the context of the food service industry “how do we remove the humanity from this thing?” and never “how do we restore or embue humanity to this thing?”.
In otherwords, why does fastfood work have to be seen as unworthy of being considered a respectable job? If there is an existential crisis here to be solved it is clearly not with helping massive corporations further slash operating costs and investments in stable decent employment, but with examining and addressing what horrifically went wrong that we have slept walk (by and large) into thinking this is an ok or healthy way to think about other human beings.
…I don’t think I understood your point. I’ll try giving my answers to these questions but I’m sure I misunderstood most of them.
Because it’s a terrible job that I don’t think anyone actually wants to do. We’ve already talked about how stressful and unsatisfying it is as a job, there’s pretty much no upside to it.
Personally, because I don’t think it’s possible. It’s a very “mechanical” job (save a very small number of people like restaurant chefs), and giving it “humanity” (less stressful shifts, less pressure and higher pay) is counterproductive to both what companies want (more money) and what customers want (to eat food for cheap and quickly, even at odd times or in odd places).
I think it’s one of the best jobs to be replaced because it’s easy (for a machine) and no human actually likes doing it. The issue is, of course, that the cut costs will go straight to the pockets of the CEOs and will not be used to improve the customer experience (or at least make it cheaper), so the working class will just have less jobs while having to pay the same to eat, but that’s a widespread issue with capitalism that’s far harder to fix.
I feel like you’re conflating two things here: people that don’t consider “working at a fast food” worthy of respect (imo rightfully, because again, it’s a terrible job), and people that don’t consider “people who work at a fast food” worthy of respect (probably because they believe in the “hustler” mentality and are convinced that it’s their fault if they’re stuck with a shitty job).
My opinions on a job and on someone who work at said job are vastly different, and not just for the food industry. I’m guessing a lot of people also think similarly, I’ve never seen people shit on fast food workers as people, except for the aforementioned delusional types who think anyone could be a billionaire if they just put in “enough work”.
Again, sorry but I don’t think I really got the meaning of your last comment so do tell me if I completely missed your point and all my answers were gibberish based on assumptions I had.
These two paragraph are full of the common assumptions and generalizations we assert as a society about fastfood work and frankly I am tired of having to nod my head and pretend like they are indisputable facts. Nothing you said is evidence, you have just dutifully sketched out the narrative we use to dehumanize fastfood work (and other “essential work”).
You are participating in a very dangerous slight of hand here by saying that in a society that utterly defines your worth and potential from your job that it is theoretically reasonable to disparage a job because why would anyone ever conflate a person with their job??
Everything about our society conflates the identity of people with their job (especially along vectors of oppression), any attempt to divide those two except as basically an academic excersize is pointless and harmfully obscures the extremely class based rigidity of the society we live in (speaking as a USian, tho I am sure the pattern isnt tooo different elsewhere).
People have been convinced by the rich to think fastfood work is demeaning, pathetic and worthless and I think it is honestly pretty disgusting how willing people are to jump on that bandwagon and do free work for the ruling class in helping undermine worker leverage to demand a decent life.
…so what exactly is wrong about what I said? You’re saying they’re assumptions and generalizations but didn’t bring any counterpoint.
I… really don’t think that’s what’s happening? At least barring the aforementioned delusional people. If anything, jobs that are considered horrible and demeaning like certain teachers and nurses get MORE sympathy from the public exactly because we see that’s a terrible way of living and that’s not okay.
What do you think we should do then? Act like it’s an awesome job and everyone is happy doing it? Wouldn’t that have the opposite effect of making people think all is good and nothing needs improvement?
What does sympathy matter to the subjects of said sympathy? The whole “essential worker” thing is a load of feel good bullshit people tell themselves to absolve themselves of guilt for participating in a society that brutally exploits the economically vulnerable.
My point is this is precisely why people both shit on fastfood workers and then tell themselves nonsense about how society treats them as essential workers. It is about narratives around how little someone can be worth and what kind of ideologies become normalized when you decide it is ok to decide for a massive workface that the only way to make their lives better is to eliminate their livelihoods abruptly and without consulting unions or any representative of the workforce in question.
Instead your perspective presupposes this kind of approach defined by serial bullshitters/MBA majors could ever actually be kind and helpful to the people having their livelihoods further dehumanized in favor of bigger and bigger profits.
I suggest we stop listening to tech bros who think what we “need” is to treat fastfood workers like they are temporary replacements for robots until we can replace them completely with robots (which there is no conclusive evidence will ever really work and actually quite a bit of evidence it won’t).
I suggest we start putting robber barons (CEOs of massive corporations) in jail and use that money to raise wages and benefits to fastfood workers. A couple more Luigis wouldn’t hurt either.
This is a war and the ruling class understands that perfectly, I suggest we start acting accordingly and put unquestionable solidarity with other workers first. Period.