• DigitalTraveler42
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    6 months ago

    Recently had an argument with my conservative father, he’s always been big into Trek and Wars, and I had just started really watching Trek again, never watched a lot of the shows all the way through. So this father of mine started going on about how woke Trek was now, and I just lost it on him, I just get so tired of the “anti-woke” nonsense and he just finds some way to insert it into every conversation. So I was like “oh no, not woke Star Trek, the series about a socialist utopia, the series that holds the title of “the American show with the first interracial kiss”, the show where Kirk throws his dick at every species with a quim, the show that had a Ruskie character in the middle of the f’n Red Scare.” Star Trek was always woke, and my father was always too dumb, racially biased, and narcissistic to pick up on the lessons that they were trying to teach us when he watched it as a child in the 60’s.

    I have not even tried to bring up Star Wars since the Disney acquisition, I’m sure my father has an insufferable take on that series now as well.

    • The Snark Urge
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      1466 months ago

      I have met conservative Trek fans. I think some people really do watch stuff without ever thinking about it beyond its superficial spectacle.

        • @wsweg
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          696 months ago

          It’s like conservatives with [insert 99% of media they consume, excluding Fox “news”]

            • @cmbabul
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              496 months ago

              They thought Colbert wasn’t playing an absurd caricature of a right wing pundit when he was doing the Report

              • @[email protected]
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                146 months ago

                It is worth noting that the rapist Bill O’Reilly knew, because it was so blindly obviously a parody of him, and whatever else you might say of him he isn’t outright stupid.

                The interesting bit is Ol Rapey Bill has quotes about Jan 6th saying his Fox would never have downplayed or enabled it, and yet, he’s now supporting Trump in 2024.

                It’s almost like the actual truth doesn’t matter to them. Like they just want a comfortable lie that benefits them personally, some kind of “Truthiness” perhaps.

                • Sway
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                  26 months ago

                  Any echo chamber can produce illusory truth effect. Repeated exposure to misinformation can result in a person failing to identify it as a lie, and begin to register it as fact and the lie gets amplified.

        • Sway
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          56 months ago

          They view the show as a documentary, not a comedy.

        • /home/pineapplelover
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          46 months ago

          IASP is a pretty funny show. Even the most recent season was gold, covering inflation during covid.

      • @Crashumbc
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        136 months ago

        There are a surprisingly high number of educated conservatives in the high tech fields, engineers/programmers/etc.

        It’s sad :/

        • DigitalTraveler42
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          96 months ago

          One of the smartest people i knew was a former systems designer for NASA, I live close enough to the Cape to watch every launch from my backyard, anyway, this guy definitely worked for NASA, had his office decorated with the Patents that he held, really smart guy, complete conspiracy nut who was immediately on the Trump train.

          I’ve always loved conspiracies too and we got along through that stuff, but then he went down the rabbit hole of Right wing and Russian propaganda/disinformation and no matter how much i tried to prove everything wrong, with good evidence, he went deeper down that hole, he died during COVID and one of the last things he sent me was about the “stolen election”, it was after January 6, to which my reply was “do you mean the 2016 election or the 2000 election?” and never got a response back and I’d heard he passed away a few months later from a mutual friend.

        • @[email protected]
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          76 months ago

          My dad navigated satellites and exploration probes for NASA his entire career, even doing work in getting better climate data. He’s a total MAGA and FOX loyalist now. Misses Bill O’Reilly and Tucker Carlson.

        • @[email protected]
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          66 months ago

          The educated laborers that perform highly skilled labor convince themselves that they have it better than everyone else because Capitalism worked and selected for them, it’s a comfy and delusional position to hold that requires having absolutely zero self-awareness. Unfortunately common.

      • @[email protected]
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        86 months ago

        Same with conservative Fallout fans that somehow unironically think it’s pro-Capitalism, despite nearly every instance of actual Capitalism and not just bartering being absurdly evil.

          • @[email protected]
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            36 months ago

            It’s worse than that, it’s the unironic Legion, House, and Enclave support that’s absurd.

            • The Snark Urge
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              36 months ago

              Sheesh. Satire really ain’t shit to a fascist

        • The Snark Urge
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          86 months ago

          “This show is phenomenal, I will describe myself as a fan. I hate its ideology and the vision that drove it.”

          I can’t name a single show like that for me.

            • The Snark Urge
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              46 months ago

              What underlying ideology or vision did you not care for, though?

              • @[email protected]
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                6 months ago

                The base satire that none of this would have happened under socialized medicine. Enjoyed the show despite hating all of the characters in it. It’s hard for me to watch but I know quality when I see it, the personalities portrayed are just so fucking aggravating. Some episodes of Star Trek i don’t mind, I find the socialist utopia underpinnings childish and vapid, hand wavery, but that’s just the backdrop, theyve some good actors depending on series, occasionally good scripts. Discovery can suck my ass though.

                • @steakmeout
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                  26 months ago

                  There is no “base satire” in Breaking Bad about socialised healthcare. You didn’t understand the show at all - he was given an opportunity to work his way out but chose to be a meth dealer because Walt couldn’t stomach further hits to his ego. Sure, there are valid comments it makes about the nature of being up against a heartless system but it doesn’t blame Walt’s decision on that system.

    • @[email protected]
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      586 months ago

      The non-woke Trekkies (or do they call themselves Trekkers? ) didn’t think about interracial kisses or the post-scarcity society in which capitalists were small-time traders. They see Captain Kirk running roughshod over other societies and turning them into America (see The Apple and A Taste of Armageddon ) which was more about 60s Hollywood imagining cold war United States as the height of civilization.

      The Next Generation dared to imagine a more internationalist sense of culture and got into the notion that even extremely weird aliens might be deserving of civil rights. But by DS9 the Federation was reimagined as a failing coalition with multiple rising renegade factions and worlds teeming with disregarded peoples. The story became less about rising to ideals and more about dealing with grimdark realities and compromising principles to preserve status quo.

      Then the Kelvin Timeline Reboot got J. J. Abrams’d and Paramount got litigeous about fan films it previously endorsed and I became so disgusted with the state of Trek, I divested myself from it. Star Wars would suffer a similar fate, and I don’t watch many movies these days.

    • @WhatAmLemmy
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      366 months ago

      Not understanding how anything works, and being angry about it, is a core tenet of conservatism.

    • @MisterRoboto
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      236 months ago

      “when did star trek get all woke?!” “1966”

      • @[email protected]
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        166 months ago

        I think the best response to that kind of crap is what you said, with the addition of “and when did you start caring? When Fox news told you to care.”

        If you’re feeling extra spicy you can add a comment about being a sheep lol

    • molave
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      156 months ago

      I just lost it on him, I just get so tired of the “anti-woke” nonsense and he just finds some way to insert it into every conversation.

      This is what I mean when I think “everything is political” is BS. That statement doesn’t mean one has to talk about politics 24/7.

      • DigitalTraveler42
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        126 months ago

        It was mostly indignation over me not kissing his ass and telling him he’s right, I’m generally one of the few in my family that will stand up to him at all never the less consistently, he’s pretty charming and the family that have never lived with him all think he’s just great usually, but he always has this condescending way of telling me “you weren’t alive then so you don’t know” as if there aren’t interviews with Roddenberry that confirms these things, or if it’s broader politics, as if encyclopedias and news article didn’t exist back then. Then when I knocked down that argument he just defaulted back to “well it’s too woke and preachy now” while citing examples of preachyness that are just examples of inclusivity in the show.

        I’ll say this, my pop apparently helped do clean up at ground zero after 9/11, he was a guard at Rikers at the time and I could see him volunteering for it, but he’s also kind of a bullshit artists so we’re never sure what’s fully the truth. However fact or fiction he’s never been the same since that day, we all lost a bunch of people we knew, and we all have a lot of friends who lost close relatives and it impacted not only us but our community, because it’s a fire firefighter town we live in, we live next to the former chief and down the block from the station house and my pop hangs out at the bar near the station house. After 9/11 he fell down the Fox News hole and never was the same again, and now i gotta hear some “woke” bullshit every time he talks about something he seems to not understand.

        So overall the reaction was a lot of indignation, a little bit of arguing followed by a hasty hang up.

      • DigitalTraveler42
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        12 months ago

        Lol necroposting.

        I’d say the latest trilogy was complete garbage, and I would put that just as much on JJ Abrams, who produced it while also completely f’ing up the Star Trek movies he did, so honestly the problem was probably him he has a reputation for this things.

        Rian Johnson was the director, but he also directed what’s considered the best star wars movie to come out, Rogue One, which also spawned one of the best Star Wars series, Andor, so it probably wasn’t his fault, plus he’s the Guy that created the Knives Out series which was also fantastic.

        • @[email protected]
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          22 months ago

          Best to come out under Disney. These (R1 and Andor) do borrow in atmosphere from the parts of the EU I like (“Dark Times” comic books etc).

      • DigitalTraveler42
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        76 months ago

        First of all you obviously don’t know my father, and you sound like a dipshit trying to misuse “ablist”, mental illnesses like narcissism aren’t handicaps and thus can’t be ablist.

        Second of all people who try to dictate who can watch what are gatekeeping morons.

        Now fuck you and have a nice day.

      • @Eldritch
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        46 months ago

        You’re no psychologist or therapist. Nor do you know OP or their father. Which is how we know you’re no psychologist. You’re not qualified to speak at all. But you find yourself compelled to. Because you identify with the father. And defending him is defending yourself. Which uuuuh says volumes about you, but no one else.

          • @Eldritch
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            36 months ago

            Innocent narcissist, wow. You go from bad to worse LMAO.

              • @Eldritch
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                36 months ago

                Narcissists are the worst to debate. You just keep self incriminating. Taking all the fun out of it.

      • @steakmeout
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        26 months ago

        Yeah fuck your concern trolling. Go back to the chans.

  • Flying Squid
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    1196 months ago

    There is a weird right-wing contingent of Trekkies who think it’s all about pew pew fights with the Borg and they confuse the rest of us who love the idea of a socialist utopia where indigenous cultures are respected and people try to talk things out before shooting in hostile situations.

    • Trek has no money in the Federation; no barter. Nobody who’s watched a season of any Trek show can avoid noticing that. It might be a bit murky with characters like Harry Mudd, or the Ferengi, but those operate outside the Federation; you’d have to be daft to miss that. TNG was more careful with their “capitalist” characters like Kivas Fajo, who was clearly a collector and trader rather than a travelling salesman.

      Right-wing free-market Trekkies are self-deluding.

      • @krab
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        6 months ago

        It’s a special case of the more general rule: right-wing free-market anyone is self-deluding.

    • @Dr_Fetus_Jackson
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      176 months ago

      That’s why I prefer Picard over the others. He represented the best of those ideals while respecting the history that led humanity to the Federation. They even took the time to reveal his humility when he went too far, by his choice or no.

  • @[email protected]
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    6 months ago

    “ Star Wars is bad now”

    I mean yah, the vertical integration, means tested everything, nostalgia bating and assembly line techniques that Disney does sure do ruin otherwise fine properties.

    “No, I don’t mind that, that’s just good business. I just hate the gay people who kissed in the background”

    Oh, OH ok, you’re just an idiot…

    • @negativeyoda
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      396 months ago

      WESSSST SIIIIIIDE

      (Of the beta quadrant)

      • @jaybone
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        156 months ago

        Live long and peace out, bitches.

    • @Maultasche
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      296 months ago

      Is this how Vulcans flip people off?

    • @[email protected]
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      86 months ago

      I was gonna say, “what kind of fucked up Shekhinah is that???” That hands gesture symbolizes the Hebrew letter “shin,” which is the first letter of the feminine name of God in Judaism. The female form of God is believed by Orthodox Jews to be so powerful that seeing her can blind a human, therefore they cover their eyes when the rabbi does this symbol while they invoke the dwelling of God, or something like that. I’m quite fuzzy on this part.

      So, this moron is calling Star Wars, the bra strangulation movie, too woke and is trying to troll Star Wars fans with a Star Trek symbol that she got wrong? The incredible irony of her being a bigot unfit for Leonard Nimoy’s Shekhina project while she’s blasting her own face with some Jewish mysticism girl power is beyond hilarious.

    • Herbal Gamer
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      396 months ago

      Star Trek not woke.

      Star Trek first interacial kiss on screen. Star Trek early with minorities in major roles without calling attention to it.

        • @Crashumbc
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          6 months ago

          Asians aren’t people! /S

          Although, tbf in the US, because of slavery(then segregation). Black/White race relations trends to overshadow everything else.

        • Flying Squid
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          66 months ago

          Interestingly, the first interracial kiss also featured William Shatner, when he kissed France Nuyen on the Ed Sullivan Show.

        • TheLowestStone
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          46 months ago

          Doesn’t count because Asians are “good” minorities. /s

          • Herbal Gamer
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            66 months ago

            George Takei might not agree since he was kept in a camp as a child.

      • @[email protected]
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        6 months ago

        I’m not trying to undermine the idea that Star Trek was progressive for its time, far from it, but since no one else has pointed this out, I thought I’d say it. Star Trek was NOT the first interracial kiss on television. In fact, the actors’ lips never touched in the shot.

        Well, sort of. I’ve been reading William Shatner’s autobiography, and they had to fight really hard to include an interracial kiss. The network was going to forbid it, telling Rodenberry that televisions across the South would rather black out their televisions for an hour than allow something so highly offensive. When he insisted upon it, they kept making concessions Rodenberry wouldn’t agree to, like instead having Uhura kiss Spock, since it there would be a little more disconnect between reality. Eventually, Rodenberry offered to film the kiss both ways—one way with their lips actually touching, the other with Uhura’s back to the camera as they embraced, giving the illusion that they kissed without their lips ever touching. The actors were really upset about it, because It was originally going to be a passionate kiss, but the only way they allowed it to be filmed on television was if the actors displayed clear discomfort—which could be used to reinforce the idea that interracial relationships were bad.

        Soo…yeah! That’s your Star Trek history lesson for the day! (I’ve never watched the original episode, I’ve only watched TNG and Discovery for myself, so this is all secondary info, but if you watch the episode, you can see for yourself.)

      • @banneryear1868
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        6 months ago

        I think with Disney and a lot of companies now it’s more obvious that they are consciously trying to “look good” vs Star Trek was a lot more genuine and authentic with it’s intention to include these things, and it was challenging status quo back then whereas today it’s very mainstream (which is a good thing). This is also what I think is (sometimes intentionally) misinterpreted with the “woke” concerns from the right, cause criticizing the company for morally branding themselves can be legit, but only if the actual idea of including and respecting people isn’t lumped in with it. A legit issue with these huge companies that exploit workers is how they commodify their visibly “diverse” employees and claim the virtue for themselves rather than all the effort it took from workers to actually be treated with dignity. Amazon may very well be welcoming and inclusive but they’re gonna fight their diverse employees when they want better conditions and pay. DEI doesn’t erase the inherent conflict between employers and employees.

  • Smuuthbrane
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    606 months ago

    StAr tReK is TOO DIVERSE, tHatS wHy I lIkE Babylon 5!

    [insert heavy breathing and unchecked drooling]

    • katy ✨OP
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      376 months ago

      she probably cheered for the bajor occupation or the government during the bell riots

      • peopleproblems
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        226 months ago

        Eugenics program? So this Khan guy is a good guy?

      • @[email protected]
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        146 months ago

        Farscape is cool. Star Trek is cool. Star Wars is okay too I guess; not hating, I just don’t like them as much as the rest of the world seems to.

        • Seraph
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          216 months ago

          Obviously. Because Firefly is the superior show, right?

          • @OZFive
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            86 months ago

            I mean Firefly is ok, but the original Battlestar Galactica is still supreme.

            • Semi-Hemi-Demigod
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              56 months ago

              I believe you are all wrong. Commando Cody is the most excellent science fiction program ever made.

                • @Zekas
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                  26 months ago

                  ronon dex > aquaman

              • Flying Squid
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                06 months ago

                Commando Cody? Bah. The 1935 film The Transatlantic Tunnel is the height of science fiction on film.

            • @Crashumbc
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              16 months ago

              I loved the original BG!! But man it didn’t age well :(

        • @[email protected]
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          86 months ago

          Disney did accidentally turn the two part story arc of space liberals restoring the status quo after it fell to space fascism into a three part warning that liberalism will always fall to fascism by allowing it to thrive in the first place by refusing to address wealth inequality and outright complacency in spite of all the warnings in the galaxy so that’s fun.

    • @Mirshe
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      136 months ago

      Hey, Babylon 5 gave us Bester Mirror Chekov.

    • @damnthefilibuster
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      46 months ago

      Talk to me about Babylon 5. What all is woke in it. Never watched it so I don’t know.

      • @[email protected]
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        156 months ago

        It has an alien species where the religious group has quotes that are directly from Carl Sagan (and they’re have more of a philosophy than a religion, at least in most ways). It generally treats religion with more respect than Roddenberry did, in a “all religion has some good parts to it, but extremism is a problem” kind of way.

        One of its major plot arcs is all about how democracies fall into fascism. I thought it was a bit heavy handed at the time, but now it feels too real.

        Skirts around a pair of characters in a lesbian relationship, but like most shows at the time, it doesn’t come right out and say it. They 100% banged one night, though.

        It’s also military science fiction. That always seems to invite right wingers who love the asthetic but ignore the themes. Same problem with Star Trek and Star Wars.

      • Captain Aggravated
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        66 months ago

        Well let’s see, there’s an episode with a dockworker’s strike, in which a “negotiator” is sent in who’s position is basically “I’ll pretend to ask nicely but the only tactic I have is this in-universe law that says I can use the military to force you back to work.” The letter of that in-universe law (the “Rush Act”) is “The local military commander can break strikes by any means he deems necessary.” And Commander Sinclair decides to pay the dockworkers what they demand out of the military budget of the station. So the union ultimately wins.

        There’s several times when some character, often a human but sometimes an alien, walks up to some other kind of alien and says “We don’t want you FREAKS coming in and stealing our JOBS!” and they’re always depicted as obviously in the wrong. Basically in the script it says “A Republican happens, and gets dealt with.”

        There’s a whole episode with a religious exchange, all the various aliens are invited to demonstrate their planet’s “dominant religion.” When it’s the human’s turn, Sinclair takes the alien crew down a hallway with a long line of various different kinds of priests, ministers, monks, etc. The first guy in line is an atheist. The point being “Earth is diverse as fuck, yo.”

        The show just barely glances off a lesbian relationship, and the show’s attitude says “What? You didn’t have a problem with the five other romantic couples we’ve seen so far, what’s your problem with this one?”

        Oh, then there’s the whole major plot of a socially conservative president sliding Earth’s entire government into totalitarianism with the backing of a hostile alien race thing.

      • Smuuthbrane
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        26 months ago

        Haven’t watched it in years myself, but unless you can define “woke” I’m not going to make any assumptions.

            • Captain Aggravated
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              36 months ago

              Just making sure here, you want me to rigorously define the political position and identity of platformless reactionaries?

              • Smuuthbrane
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                26 months ago

                Not at all, in fact I’d rather “woke” be defined by what they really mean - feminism, inclusivity, equality, etc. Let’s make them say what they actually mean without hiding behind a nebulous term like “woke”.

  • @bi_tux
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    586 months ago

    the concept of science fiction is way to librul, since it suggests that science is real

  • IWantToFuckSpez
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    6 months ago

    I would have thought they’d be more of a Starship Troopers fan, since the satire would fly over the fash’s head.

      • @Duamerthrax
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        46 months ago

        I mean, so long as you see the satire of the film, that’s not incompatible.

    • Manucode
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      16 months ago

      TBF Heinlein didn’t mean for it to be a satire, Verhoeven just turned it into one.

  • @someguy3
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    536 months ago

    Money doesn’t exist in Star Trek but credits do in Star Wars.

    • @[email protected]
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      316 months ago

      Money exists in Star Trek, the Federation just doesn’t use it. the Ferengi love the stuff though

      • @[email protected]
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        106 months ago

        They occasionally reference “Federation Credits”, but I think it’s mainly for use outside the Federation.

        • @Duamerthrax
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          66 months ago

          This is just a world building issue that comes with hundreds of writers over the decades. Who knows how money works. Someone will say something, then ten years later, another writer wont get the note and write something that conflicts.

        • SharkAttak
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          26 months ago

          That’s the greatest accomplishment of the Federation, tricking the Ferengi! Internally money isn’t used anymore, but to trade with the Ferengi they use these Non Federation Tokens, which have no real value.

    • @cmbabul
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      96 months ago

      Star Wars never got replicators, but they did get sweet laser swords

      • @someguy3
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        166 months ago

        Fuck laser swords, i want food without cooking.

        • @cmbabul
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          146 months ago

          Best I can do is different colored milk, but I will throw in some space wizards and what the hell personal starships for everyone.

    • @Wodge
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      86 months ago

      Pressed latinum bars?

    • @derf82
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      16 months ago

      deleted by creator

  • @[email protected]
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    436 months ago

    I know she’s smarter, better, and stronger than I and would find a way to help explain and educate this woman on how she’s pissing into the wind wrong…

    But I can’t help but imagine Janeway just kicking the shit out of that foxbot on principle and for the security of the federations reputation.

    • Flying Squid
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      46 months ago

      I don’t know, man. She killed Tuvix. I could see her kicking the shit out of this lady.

  • @MolochAlter
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    346 months ago

    Post scarcity societies can’t be approached in any meaningful way with modern economic theories.

    Star Trek is neither socialist nor capitalist, as both are systems designed to manage and portion out scarcity, and are based on economic theories that lack any predictive abilities in systems that don’t work in a context of scarce resources that need administration.

    Neither the labour theory of value nor marginal utility theory make any sense when all resources are trivial to obtain for individuals and whatever resources your community uses can be reused virtually endlessly within the limits of entropy.

    • @[email protected]
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      6 months ago

      Are we really dealing with “scarcity” at this point?

      Supermarkets throw away literal millions of tonnes of food annually. “Reduce, reuse, recycle” has become a hollow mantra that cannot be truly adopted by the profit driven design philosophies of consumer products. Sustainability is being treated like some chic perk rather than a critical topic that must be taken seriously if we want any hope for our futures.

      All these things are profoundly capitalist problems. Of course, it’s not like marxist-leninist ‘experiments’ fared any better, devolving into their own variants of capitalism, but there are many other socialist ideologies to consider (such as anarchism…)

      • @LwL
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        We are, because people want luxury goods too. Post-scarcity is about being able to produce most goods with barely any human labor (would absolutely be true for food if every person on earth only worked in food production or to produce machinery needed for it), which we aren’t even close to. AI and automation might get us there (though it’s questionable when the cycle of just investing the newfound labor capacity into more luxuries will stop, if ever), but people are actively resisting that (reasonably so) because the current economic system basically everywhere is horribly rigged towards funnelling the excess wealth to rich individuals rather than improving the living standards of society as a whole.

        • @[email protected]
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          Idk, I’d say we want quality goods, and are lead to believe that these desires can be fulfilled by the lofty luxury goods market which is founded more on artificial scarcity than material scarcity. Even when rare materials and expensive labour are involved the fact that this simply makes them “more valuable” seems more important than any actual need, or lack of alternatives. Meanwhile, affordable products get enshittified, shorter lifespans, etc.

          though it’s questionable when the cycle of just investing the newfound labor capacity into more luxuries will stop, if ever

          Which is precisely why “post-scarcity” can only be reached with actual societal change, not just technological advancement.

    • @Tyfud
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      206 months ago

      While that may be true about Star Trek after the fact, the truth is that in order to get the federation off the ground, and the world economy in line to create the first Enterprise and crew and all the scientific advancements they made, required the entire world moving to a purely socialistic platform/agenda to achieve.

      • Norah - She/They
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        46 months ago

        I don’t think you can discount first contact’s affect on that shift. Finding out you’re not alone in the universe would surely have a massive societal impact.