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I can’t believe a paid OS needs a tool like this. Here’s a GUI tool called OFGB (Oh Frick Go Back) to remove all the ads in Windows 11. It’s understandable if a free OS or app needs ad support, but this is just crazy github.com/xM4ddy/OFGB
[Screenshot Of a GUI Tool To Removes Ads From Various Places Around Windows 11]
Conditioning everyone to see their computers as media consumption kiosks instead of the powerful, productive machines they are. That’s where MS OSes are headed. They tried too early with Windows 8 Metro, but they haven’t lost sight of that concept.
“My TV shows ads so it’s only natural my computer does too.” - I bet a lot of people already think like this.
Pretty soon it’ll want to use your idle cpu net and disk for undisclosed purposes as part of the EULA.
The Telemetry collection service does a good job of that already, especially on laptops where it wakes them from sleep, and eats through the battery while idle in a backpack. I’ve been stung by this many times since Windows 8 - I now unplug then hibernate my last remaining Windows laptop, work-issued.
Also moved as much personal gear as possible over to various Linux distros a while ago, except my PC where some games cannot detect my sim peripherals & freetrack emulation under WINE
Ick
Pretty insightful, and quite possible as people are being trained on the “app experience” vs computing proper.
I want to make a script for Linux that adds ads everywhere. It would be tricky with Wayland but not impossible. It could start by installing browser extensions.
There is a special place in hell for you lol.
If they were fake ads like in GTA and Cyberpunk, it could be fun, provided you could turn them on and off anytime.
I’ll use the Google Ad platform
From there I’ll encrypt all your files and make you watch an ad per file to access your data
Uh sorry, this is a big file. Here’s the second, unskippable ad.
It has a 1 in 500 chance of serving you a 300 hour ad you cannot skip, and if you attempt to restart the system to get rid of it, it’ll make a note of that and restart the ad from the beginning after the next reboot.
If you try it twice, it will delete the file you were about to access.
Super-hell now.
Now I wish there was an advertising studio where, like, they specialized in shitty ads for real things. Like “I made a game on newgrounds, you WON’T LAST TEN SECONDS” but it’s just a flappy birds clone or something
And call the script “Windows”
I was thinking more along the lines of “optimizer”
Na just throw ads into system logs. Or do what Ubuntu does and throw an advert every time you run apt upgrade.
Have you tried installing any packages from NPM recently?
9474733 packages are looking for funding
I think that is the better case. That is just NPM aggregating the metadata. There are lots of packages that print their own ad.
Make it for Hannah Montana Linux plz!
Makes me wonder how long till video game load screens are sold as ad space.
Thanks for putting this idea forward to the industry.
Oh, please, do you really think they didn’t have this idea already?
Delete this comment
EA games have done it already, since early 2000s. Practically any EA BIG game has in-game ads for real brands, all over the overworld billboards
NBA 2K has had ads in it for a while, though I can’t remember if they’re specifically in the loading screen or not.
I think EA also did this with the ad boards around the pitch in FIFA one year IIRC
It’s EA, what do you expect
I mean there does have to be something there and while I prefer charities, fake companies or promoting your own products, if they’re not targeted and realistic so you see eg. Ethiad ads while playing as City I don’t think that’s too bad… But on loading screens, menu screens or as popups gtfo, even if it’s your own product
you ever play a mobile game on an android phone?
“loading” screens
Artificial delay periods that are used to show ads, yeah
Slightly better than artificial delay periods used to discourage behaviors to save costs.
Mr. Zuckerberg, if you think I’m referring to reporting spam messages on Facebook desktop, you’re correct.
Honestly, who really uses Facebook (except for boomers)?
Work :(
Damn
deleted by creator
Just dont look at Ubisoft. 💀
Ad/promotion appeared in offline games whenever you opened the map…
Makes me wonder how many seconds till they realise the users won’t be able to tell if the game is still loading or it’s just monetised delay. Bonus points if a user finds out, lobbies to get it banned and then they just include bullshit extra processing to justify it.
The future looks so bright.
If its a pc game people will just find a way to turn that off and tell everyone else how to do it.
You can turn off stuff that the programmers allow you to through a settings menu (that they wrote), configuration files (that they make their program to read) or fiddling 3rd party stuff that it’s using (like your driver settings, external libraries, etc.).
Similarly to how GTA V’s (could be GTA Online) extreme loading time was caused by a very inefficient way of loading data. Users couldn’t change the algorithm themselves; they could investigate what was going on, but the developers were the only ones being able to actually change it to a recommended version.
Obviously the story is a bit different with an open source code which you can compile for yourself.
https://finalfantasyxv.fandom.com/wiki/Cup_Noodles
They also had a bunch of Coleman camping gear as a major feature of the game.
As ad placement went, I thought it was kinda charming and cute. More like a goofy Superbowl ad than an obnoxious “BUY ME NOW!!!” splash screen or pop-up insert. But I’m glad the latest FF7 Remakes didn’t continue this trend.
they used to call this malware
“It’s okay when we do it.”
If its pre-installed, its typically called “Bloatware”.
And I remember having bloatware on my machine going back to the 90s. The first really high quality gaming computer I got was a Sony Vaio and it had tons of bullshit excess software I had to mop out of it before I was ready to really use it.
Is it actually malicious, though? Ads by themselves aren’t malicious.
Adware then, which is generally unacceptable in a large full featured paid product.
How the heck did those tools developers figure out how to remove those various ads in windows? Did they do it the hard way, fired up a debugger to reverse engineer how those ads were displayed? That takes some dedication. We in the Linux land have it easy because the source code is available to mess with.
It’s not difficult. Corporations won’t put up with this shit and MS knows it, so there are (almost) always documented registry entries or GPO policies you can set to disable this crap.
But you shouldn’t fucking have to. Which is why I’m now on Tumbleweed instead of Windows for my daily driver.
Most likely this IMO, with all the driver and executable signing/integrity checks nowadays I doubt they can get away with patching the system files a la Windows XP style.
Couldn’t M$ make corporations deal with it anyways? It’s really not like they could just switch to Linux or Mac with their very specific BS piece of software of which every company has their own that runs on Windows only.
They could try but anything over a medium size business likely has a specific contract with Microsoft and they probably have language preventing this kind of thing. I know my company does. And there would be a ton of pushback from any security org that knows what they are doing, since ads are a common vector for security incidents.
Microsoft is already getting their money from the corpos, it’s the ‘freeloading’ public they are trying to squeeze revenue from.
Microsoft is already getting their money from the corpos, it’s the ‘freeloading’ public they are trying to squeeze revenue from.
Yeah, those bums who only paid for the software once.
If you saw an enterprise licensing agreement you’d know just how true this is. We pay for this shit over and over and over.
Pro, Enterprise and Education SKUs have less of these “features” enabled
This is the third reference to the tumbleweed distro I’ve read today. Sounds like I have a new VM to set up!
I think you’ll like it! I sure do. Been on it about a month now, maybe 5 weeks. No complaints.
Hell yeah brother!) tumbleweed ftw! P.S my top 3 distros is debian tumbleweed gentoo because of WIDE architecture support meaning you can launch it on almost ANY pc out there
Great question!
But how do I stop all the ads in Linux for penguins and wildebeest?
Plays unskippable FSF anthem by Stallman
Join us now and share the software,
You’ll be freeee hackers, you’ll be FreEEeeEeEeeee…
At this point it would be easier to install a new user friendly linux distro…
I love Linux as much as the next guy, but installing a new OS is not easier than downloading a single program and clicking check boxes. No need to be hyperbolic, Windows is bad enough as it is.
Yeah it is easier dude. with windows you have to install the new OS and then open edge and download Firefox then go download the program and check the boxes. With linux mint you install the OS. Idk sounds easier to me
Well, that’s fair. I thought you meant easier to install Linux over an existing Windows 11 install.
Maybe, but Windows has the advantage of being preinstalled on the hardware most people are buying (meaning they get to skip the install the OS step for Windows).
I wouldn’t call forced adoption an advantage. if anything they are taking away your freedom of choice by making it harder for you to switch, Because you have to remove the windows OS to switch. Why dont you get the option for linux at the store they are open source licensed so there is no issue distributing for free and giving people the option.
Sure sure, but we’re talking ease of use for a typical end user. Also, Firefox isn’t mandatory for the other app, so you technically don’t need to add that step even if getting away from Chromium in general and Edge in particular is a good idea as regards avoiding advertising.
It boggles my mind how many Windows users refuse to switch to something else and insist on patching together Microsoft’s intentionally broken excuse of an operating system…
The usual, I would but games (and proprietary software for work)
I run a Linux machine literally next to my Windows desktop and yeah it’s 98% for my daily usually but that’s still a week worth of “Not working” for my year.
Fallout 3 was hard enough to get working on Windows many moons ago but even with all the “Use Lutris” or “Use Heroic” cries, it’d be easier to run a whole Windows VM than to get it running natively and in the forty minutes of time I have to game, I’d rather just play the game sometimes.
So, if I have to play in their Sandbox, I’m gonna shit in it first so they don’t try to come play too.
Plus, VR and all that.
That’s why my windows partition is still in regular use. I play apex legends. It used to play flawlessly on pop is but over a year ago at this point it started screwing up.
I’d usually be able to get it working after a while, but when I have 30-45 minutes or maybe an hour at most to game, I don’t want to spend all of it “fixing”. I’d rather restart into windows and be playing in a minute.
Sometimes you don’t know how bad your ex really is until you’re in a new relationship
😔 ain’t that the truth
For me it’s simply laziness, and the fact that I don’t use the OS apart from explorer. I think that’s the thing for a lot of people the actively use so few parts of the OS that the question wether the OS is intrusive, bloatware free or efficient isn’t part of their concern. They, me included, don’t tinker, don’t optimize, don’t script etc. I just start the programs thati use. I probably will give Linux another go with my next PC build though.
The truth is that most people don’t really care. A lot of them don’t even know what an OS is, they just need a machine that lets them browse the internet, write documents, and maybe play some games. An ad is maybe an annoyance to them, but not one that’s going to make them install a new OS. It’s not because they’re dumb or ignorant, it just doesn’t rank that high on their list of priorities (even if we think it should). I think being in these communities kind of makes us forget that a lot of people don’t think that much about tech.
I do think that easy to install/use Linux distros could one day start changing some minds, but that distro won’t be one that’s popular with current Linux users. You’d basically need something that very rarely requires you to touch a terminal, even for troubleshooting, because that’s where people will nope right out.
On the other hand, this is why stuff like that “look at all the data Google has on you” video are important. For us it’s a yeah duh moment, but the average Chromebook user probably has no idea and is rightly surprised about it. Reach people in terms they can understand.
Absolutely this. 99% of people I know never want to touch a terminal, and I don’t blame them. They’ve been shown that what they want to do can be simple, why would they settle for less? Something really big needs to happen for them to change browser, let alone a whole OS.
The devil you know vs the devil you don’t, I guess. Comfort etc.
Lol right I saw a post about tiny11 iso I was like wtf thats way harder then just installing linux. Microsoft got people brainwashed
Look, I agree, but let’s not kid ourselves on our experience not being shitty too 🤣. We’re capable of using it only because we’re really good at computers, but there are literally millions of people who don’t even know or care about knowing how to change desktop background
there are literally millions of people who don’t even know or care about knowing how to change desktop background
I’ll cede “know”, but I heavily dispute “care”.
Plenty of Boomers are painfully aware of how awful the internet has become over the last decade. Hell, they got to experience it before the rest of us precisely because folks who never knew how to migrate off AOL or Yahoo got enshitified first.
My own mom hates using the computer in no small part because she takes too much of what she sees at face value and ends up with tons of spyware, bloat, and scams rampaging across her laptop. I have to clean it out for her every few months, and I’m constantly fighting with her over what’s actually garbage and what she’s convinced she needs.
But the end result is that she just… won’t check her email because she hates it. She won’t answer her phone because she’s afraid of scam callers. She won’t trust ANY website, so she doesn’t use Amazon or Uber or Netflix.
It isn’t that people like my mom don’t care. They care immensely, because modern technology has become unusable for people like her.
Put linux on her computer, i think it would make her a lot less annoyed
I’ve never tried to install linux on an Apple before.
If it is an intel based machine, it’s no really much different than any other machine. The only difference would be in how you get to the boot menu. That’s about it.
I’d have to check the specs, but I believe its an M1 or M2.
If it is M1 or M2 Asahi Linux is the way to go, but it is still in development and probably not ready for your mom
Does lemmy have any communities for unintentional “yo mamma” jokes?
probably not ready for your mom
leg stretches
cracks neck
This is the moment I have been training for…
Linux on an Intel-based MacBook Air was my daily driver for years. It worked perfectly fine; battery life was lower than on macOS though.
I have. It mostly works, but the network drivers are a pain at best and simply non-existent at worst, often forcing you to add a USB dongle.
I think this is a too much pessimistic point of view. People with difficulties will be people with difficulties, but the fact is that the boomers actually are a little incompetent at it, simply hecause they had to deal with many more pressing things. They wouldn’t be stupid to learn as much as your average person wouldn’t be, they’re just understandably lazy. I too am lazy, so I’ll never cook as well as my grandma.
It’s not too bad. They probably wouldn’t have Windows either if they had to set it up themselves. My dad has been using Ubuntu for years, but he doesn’t know it. It’s just a laptop that works as far as he’s concerned.
I would argue there are facets to many people’s life that they leave “at default” because they “don’t care enough to fix it how they want”.
Take random Linux User XYZ; They still have to nudge their front door to get it open after unlocking, because they’re not a home improvement afficionado that wants to look up door repair videos on YouTube and attempt to put a stabilizer of some kind on the hinge. Or, they might accept the terrible interface in their car because they don’t know of easy ways to get it replaced with something simpler. Or, they don’t have their money invested anywhere because they don’t like/trust researching investment tips.
For us, it’s just that computers are something we’ll always tune to our preference. For others, it’s other things.
I just saw a post the other day from a guy who dumped fedora because it couldn’t be installed with a Bluetooth mouse.
Allegedly the installer requires a mouse click, and he had no other pointing device. They also said the keyboard navigation was not helpful and was also unable to switch to a console to manually pair his mouse.
I think it might be possible to get around all their menus with just tab and enter, but it’s less of a pain with a mouse last I tried.
He’s right, the installer should either make mice work or have a GUI that doesn’t expect them.
I think I vaguely remember something about that, but I would be pretty upset if the keyboard navigation was unusable. It is almost as bad as the stupid mouse enabled BIOSs that never work. It doesn’t even work on the Dell laptop I have for work. The keyboard navigation is always extra special in those cases and involves a lot of button mashing to get to the correct thing, if I can figure it out at all.
I don’t use wired mice either and had to dig the old gaming mouse out recently so I could get to some menus on a new machine to pair the mouse. I have done the mouse pairing thing through console and it isn’t the best experience, especially if you are trying to figure out if things are working in the first place. For me, I could figure it out. For a new user, you are asking a lot.
Just give me an old school OS installer with simple menus, easy keyboard navigation, and the bare minimum guidance needed to not entirely fuck it up.
I have win11 on my gaming pc and i don’t see any ads. Maybe because i use local account.
Don’t you have any news, and other suggestions on the taskbar, lock screen etc? Also, are you in the EU?
No. I am from asia
Is it possible that the suggestions Windows is giving you don’t perceive them as ads?
Asia is a continent
Astute observation
I think I finally found it. There aren’t (officially) any ads in windows 11 yet, they just changed the wording of the toggle for the start menu to add ads as part of the toggle.
https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-start-menu-ads-avoid/
the more you use the native implementations of stuff, the more you see it. if you for example, dont use edge, dont use the native task bar/start bar, dont use the microsoft store, dont use any of the built in AI tools, then AD visibily would be minimal.
A good chuck of the Ad problems is usually fixed by using 3rd party software, be it completely switching OS, or using non native software.
its like trying to use old internet explorer and complaining about ads, when 3rd party alternatives exist, and of the subset who complains, a chunk refuse to get off IE, and look for ways to mod IE instead of just going 3rd party from the get go.
I mean not using the native taskbar is a bit further than fixing stuff by using third party software. The taskbar is an integral part of the OS. If you’re switching it out then you’re making significant, deep rooted changes to the OS.
its less rewriting the entire task bar, but overriding the functionalities of the start button (in which most of the Ads are displayed in)
Same. I main a Manjaro mini-PC but have a separate Windows gaming rig. No ads. I did use a reg key to disable start menu web search a while back but otherwise haven’t made any system changes.
There’s really no need to run Windows gaming rigs anymore 🤷 I have 2 and both are Linux
Can’t play warzone and siege on linux. Windows gaming just works.
Never heard of siege. Only heard terrible things about CoD and Warzone so…no love lost there. Pretty much anything works unless the developer specifically opts out of it or they add some bullshit kernel-level anti-cheat.
Linux “just works” better than Windows in my experience, when it comes to gaming. All the Windows bullshit was always in the way. There has never been any sort of gaming integration into the Windows OS the way Steam Deck OS has.
You never heard of Rainbow 6: siege?
Some people don’t play competitive FPS games exclusivesly, shocking I know.
I’m one of those people. And not only in fps, I started avoiding pvp in every game altogether.
Heard of it. Can’t blame me for not recognizing a generic single-word reduction of the title.
I don’t need any gaming integration in windows. I turn on my pc, steam opens on startup and i click play. Nothing in windows gets in my way. I don’t update my drivers unless i am playing a new game on launch day.
I don’t need any gaming integration in windows.
I used to have problems all the time where there was some sort of XBOX overlay error message every time I launched a game. Games would minimize at random in the middle of a match. If you want to change any system settings you have to back out of the game, as opposed to SteamOS which has the quick access menu. Simply shutting down the system sometimes takes like 3 minutes, as you have to exit the game, wait for it to load the main menu, hit exit AGAIN, wait for it to close, then hit the Windows button and shut down. In SteamOS I don’t have to do anything except open the menu, select power, and select shut down and the system handles the rest.
Just a few of the OS integration improvements.
This is just a bad windows install. The overlay problem happens if you remove edge/gamebar without preserving webview2. I am curious what system settings do you change in the middle of a game apart from one click shutdown.
I have some games I play that do not play nice with Proton. In particular, my wife and I are pretty obsessed with Solasta: Crown of the Magister (over 500 hours and counting), which has poor compatibility in wine and proton to my understanding.
Besides, for now I don’t need the hassle. I boot up gaming PC, Steam launches, I play, then I shut down. I don’t need an excuse to leave the gaming rig powered on when I’m not using it. Maybe if and when I end up rebuilding it.
Solasta: Crown of the Magister which has poor compatibility in wine and proton to my understanding.
I don’t need the hassle
Linux is far less hassle in my experience. Especially with one of the many SteamOS-like distros.
But by all means, you do you.
I don’t need an excuse to leave the gaming rig powered on when I’m not using it.
…why would Linux give you that excuse?
That was just one example. And I’d you review that page you linked, they don’t all disagree, there were more than a few reporting issues with it. It’s gold rated, but not platinum.
I’m glad you’re enjoying the experience, but either way the point I was making is that my gaming PC is just an appliance. It works and I have enough other things to do that I don’t feel like reinstalling the OS and a butt-ton of games.
When I need to do a rebuild/upgrade in the future I’ll likely revisit Linux with it, but until then I don’t see the point. I only turn it on a few hours a week to game and otherwise it’s off. And when it is on, I just want to game, not potentially spend time fiddling or troubleshooting if something isn’t as expected.
Fair enough
People are constantly pushing others toward Linux, because its nothing like it used to be. Id never touched a terminal screen besides a run command in Windows. I still haven’t had to touch when, except for making monecraft work a long time ago. (Which was as easy as copy pasting the commands by the way, and I was not at all doing something typical. Yet the guides were there.)
I can say however, finding a fix on Linux is significantly easier than it can be on windows. Just like any os, you’re gonna find times where you’re alone.I don’t need a push, a Linux machine is my daily driver (and has been for something like 8+ years now), and I’ve worked in IT doing virtualization/automation/data management and compliance for several years. I spend a lot of time in the terminal.
To me the Windows gaming PC is essentially a console, no different than a PS5 or a Switch is to someone else. It’s been up and running as such since before Proton was fully viable and for its use case I don’t see a need to change it until it’s due for a rebuild/replacement/upgrade.
Id say a steam deck is like a console. You turn it on, and you play games. A windows machine at the start is nothing like a console. Updates, forced updates, intrusive AI’s, constant suggestions, nothing is straight forward to me.
Maybe that’s just because I haven’t had to use Windows in the last 5 years, but thats been my experience any time I fire up my desktop.
I don’t see any of that. Cortana is disabled via settings toggle, no AI stuff, start menu web search is disabled. Updates are set to automatic download only and are only run upon shutdown if I choose “update and shutdown” instead of just doing shutdown.
I dunno, there are legitimate things to complain about with Windows, but none of this really fits.
In my case I power on, Steam launches, and I run a game. When done, I press the power button and it shuts down. That’s it.
Same but I setup my install by pretending I’m from the UK and that’s the only difference I can see
It’s kind of embarrassing to see so many linux nerds talk about ads in Windows 11, like navigating the settings menu is difficult.
I use linux and Windows. I haven’t seen an ad in windows since i installed and disabled them.
1: you shouldn’t have to
2: you have to go to like 6 different places to get most of them and there are still ads for microsoft products baked into the settings menu
It isn’t hard but it is tedious because each of the ad settings is in a different location. Like taskbar has its settings which aren’t configured in the Settings app where you can turn off the ads. Settings has places in search and another in privacy. Look at the OP image. It’s 9 different settings that need to be found and turned off.
9 settings all easily accessible via the search bar in settings.
Idk im not seeing the absolutely gigantic issue that anti-windows people make it out to be - at worst, it’s a minor nuisance.
The issue is ads are for supporting free software. Windows is not free therefore should not be showing ads.
It’s embarrassing to see people actively defending the wealthiest corporation in the world baking ads directly into your operating system.
Settings ads? I had no idea it got THIS bad.
When it’s against the law to not maximize profit for shareholders we get into some really disgusting territory when you can’t innovate anymore and need to squeeze every dime out of everything.
What the hell is microsuck going to do in another 10 years? Infinite growth is more of a fantasy than working Communism yet we swear it will work somehow…
Genuinely where is the line for people still putting up with this stuff?
I think that it’s one of the benefits of monopoly. People don’t think “I wonder if I should start checking out alternatives?” but instead “Damn, that’s annoying. I wonder if there’s a way to fix this?” Alternatives never even enter their head. See, there’s already a tool for the problem in the post!
Yeah sadly, whenever you say PC / Laptop people associate it with windows. You buy one of these, its windows. People dont even know what else is out there.
Yeah that went out the window when American corpos found out during the pandemic they can literally just keep raising prices for shittier product and Americans just… keep buying it
Welcome to the end of human society, we’re just getting started. Should have chosen a birthdate a few decades earlier, too bad!
The worst thing about the future is that everything is fucking data mining and ads. Yes, EVERYTHING, from cars to fucking refrigerators.
And subscriptions. Once hyper capitalism got its whiff of subscriptions there was no turning back.
Follow this simple tutorial to get root access to your fridge and install a foss OS …
For bullshit like spinning rims or golf clubs that wouldn’t surprise me but it’s not like I can just choose not to eat. I HAVE to buy food.
I think for many people, me included the OS is more or less invisible bc I use so few OS elements. File browser and that’s it. Hardly any other gui feature comes to mind that isn’t a third party program.
Putting up with the ads or putting up with the workarounds?
Since I’ve been running debloated windows since win 7 it has never bothered me to run a few scripts after install or use a modded iso. But if that wasn’t an option I’m not sure if the last few games holding me to windows would be enough.
Lol. I was on 11, haven’t seen the ads, probably due to nextdns, even ran the beta versions. But 24.04 came out and upon testing it seems my WiFi isn’t crapping out like if used to so I guess I’ll stay.
Man win11… Wtf…
Man win11
I don’t think it comes with man pages.
I mean, technically powershell “get-help” but… yeah.
I mean Windows is a free OS. You can freely download and install it without paying and receive nothing but a watermark in exchange.
It’s become more and more like Android over the years where “you are the product” so this is unsurprising.
most people pay for it when they buy their computer.
Sure but you can also download and install it entirely for free.
Just because they aren’t as punitive anymore doesn’t mean its free.
I mean, for all intents and purposes, it is.
Its “free” to install. Still a pain in the ass and needs to be unlocked with MAS lol
Agreed, they don’t even have the cash cow that some other free OSes have in their app stores.
MacOS is free and has been for years. Still no bullshit.
MacOS is not free, it’s just included with the hardware…
I have used the Chris Titus debloat tool before and it works pretty well.
Really the fact that this is necessary at all is disgusting. Start Menu ads are straight up AIDS. Not to mention curated news feeds in Start and other places. Why not just tell me what my opinions and purchasing habits should be, and eliminate the middleman?
I feel like even novice Windows users would be better off with Pop! OS and Wine at this point.
Sure, but Microsoft has favorable ESG reporting. Your move Nix.
