"I don’t care what the millionaires think.”
If he made this the tagline for his entire campaign / next term, I’d feel much better about voting for him.
That was Bernie’s tagline (well, billionaires rather than millionaires) before the DNC came together like Voltron to simultaneously consolidate around Biden and boot him out of the race.
It felt extra bad when even Liz was in on it.
I very much remember Liz was the last hold out on endorsing Biden. I was on her campaign.
Edit to add evidence:
Bernie Endorsed Biden Monday, April 13th 2020
Elizabeth followed 2 days later on Wednesday, April 15th 2020
Fuck her. She had her chance to support a fellow Progressive twice in a row and she chose to help the centrists both times rather than let someone else with the values she claimed to hold win. She’s either a liar or so unbelievably bad at strategic thinking that she belongs nowhere near politics.
Liz was splitting the left vote with Bernie, on purpose.
Liz is a traitor.
🐍🐍🐍🐍
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Why did she run in 2020 though? Why didn’t she run in 2016 when Bernie and many of her supporters, myself included at the time, overwhelming supported her and begged her to run against Clinton (because we knew she was a terrible candidate that would cost us so much).
Why did she choose to run against Bernie when the policies they support are so similar.
Better question: what policies did she support that she didn’t think Bernie would enact that made her feel she needed to run against him? It was obvious he had a better chance than her that point, so why run against him?
I can’t speak for Elizabeth, or for many other supporters, but I can tell you why I supported her and not Bernie.
While I agree with so much of Bernies platform, I just wasn’t convinced he was a pragmatic candidate. When asked how he would handle Mitch McConnell, his response was essentially “Our revolution will take care of that- voters will listen to my message and I won’t have to deal with him”. That wasn’t really the question, and I just didn’t see that as a good answer. It solidified my thoughts that he was an idealist who was pushing for great things and was very much needed, but when it came to the cold realities of getting things done, he wasn’t someone who I thought could negotiate with republicans.
I also was very wary of populists. Bernie was very much a left wing Trump only in that he built a very deep cult of personality. Everyone who I talked to, every poll I saw, every post I read cemented the idea that it was Bernie or bust. Especially now as I am terrified of a Civil War 2 breaking out, the stance of non-negotiation is not only ineffective, but dangerous.
Idealists play a very important role in any movement. They create the energy needed to push things forward. However in the position of Commander in Chief, the virtue needed is restraint. I wanted to find a balance between progressive policy and pragmatic restraint, and so I saw Warren as the better of the two options. 4 years later I’m not as excited about her as I was then, and much of the details are fuzzy, but I know this is broadly what I thought.
I know in this thread there will be a lot of mud slinging and calling those who disagree with Bernie of 2020 or their supporters as stupid and/or evil, but that stance is exactly what I saw as divisive and dangerous in a time we need to avoid division and violence. Not all of it was Bernie’s fault, but I also know Idealists can push other idealists further to extremes. We are in a prisoners dilemma, where if we choose the path of getting everything, we will get nothing.
Edit Just to clarify, most of my friends supported Bernie, and they are not stupid. There are a million reasons why he was the best candidate, and many times he worked with republicans. At the time, I saw Warren as more of a 70/30 progressive and Bernie more 80/20.
I’ve read that explanation many times from many people, at this point. I’m honestly not yet compassionate enough to forgive y’all for what I believe to be willfull ignorance (no offense, srsly). That said, I totally respect your opinions and actions as a free fellow citizen.
My only question is, didn’t you care that she was obviously going to lose? Did really not that matter to you? (These are rhetorical, I guess, since if you could’ve you would’ve.)
It seems the real issue is a failure to understand how politics works in general, how it works in the US, and how it works in a two-party system. The answers to those questions should help you understand why so many people recognized that if Bernie didn’t win, we’d be in this exact position. No one can tell the future, but plenty of people have predicted exactly what has happened (from trump being president to the DNC propping up a corpse despite the will and wishes of voters and donors).
Finally, imo, if Warren was sincere (and wasn’t purposefully trying to hurt the chances of policies she supposedly supports being enacted) then she’s unbelievably incompetent, which I absolutely do not believe she is. That leaves only one alternative: she refused to run against Clinton because she knew she would have a good chance at beating her and didn’t want to run against here; instead, she preferred the certainty of a cabinet position (or less likely, support in her own presidential run 2-3 terms later - an insane bet, imo, given no party keeps the presidency a 3rd term in this country) and then she ran in 2020 to help Biden based on the same motives (support the DNC and they’ll support you). She sold out plain and simple.
I’m truly blown away that people don’t recognize that many progressives clearly said it would be a Bernie vs establishment DNC (i.e. Biden) rematch and it was. How do people not feel absolutely duped after all the BS 20+ candidates that were obvious distractions that then all joined to support Biden like fuckin clockwork. Fuck conspiracy theories, we literally watched this stuff happen and people still seem beyond confused. It’s so wild to me
Sorry for the rant in return. I wish I had friends I could talk to about this stuff, but my friends are mostly dumb as shit. They’re a fun crowd tho ;P
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. If Bernie actually got the presidency, his base would have abandoned him within 2 years.
Bernie would not have been able to implement his idealist utopia. Every step of the way, both Dems and Reps would have forced compromise. Whatever reached his desk to sign would have been so watered down that his fanatic progressive following would have thrown him under the bus like every other progressive hero to date.
I liked Bernie well enough, and would have preferred him to Hillary, because I thought he was a bit more electable. But he wasn’t the homerun that people made him out to be, and I suspect he would have been largely ineffective if elected. Because in the end, it takes a lot more than strong principles and good intentions to make things happen in DC.
Last I heard he was listening to his family, all of which happen to be millionaires, including himself.
He’s just another arrogant, out of touch, privileged elite with no understanding of what the majority of Americans experience day to day.
His hubris was on full display in Friday’s interview, the stakes are clearly not the same for him. He has enough wealth and power to weather this fascist storm, unfortunately most of us do not.
See, he didn’t say it before but only says it now, because now it’s PERSONAL. And did he really use the word “millionaires” instead of “billionaires?” If yes, he’s a goddam coward, and I thank him for letting me know.
And did he really use the word “millionaires” instead of “billionaires?”
He was referring to a specific set of millionaires. The full quote is:
Since Biden’s disastrous debate performance on June 27, various Democratic donors have been sounding the alarm on whether he can beat Trump in November.
“I’m getting so frustrated by the elites in the party” calling for him to step down, the president fumed on MSNBC. “I don’t care what the millionaires think.”
He cares what billionaires think.
Fuck you for trying to spin it that way, Biden.
I don’t want you as the candidate because the shit you’re saying indicates you straight up don’t understand the stakes. You said that you’d “feel fine, because you gave it your all”. Meanwhile, I’ll be out here dodging fucking 3%er and Proud Boy paramilitary squads that Trump will surely deputize with an “official act”, which will be very legal and very cool as per the Tribunal of Six’s recent decision.
Your head is not in the game. You are stuck not only in the sunk-cost fallacy, but also up your own ass. You are not trying hard enough. You are not using the right tactics. At this point I seriously doubt you even understand what the right tactics are.
We are trying to fight against fascism, and you’re going to fucking hand it to the fascists. Get out of our fucking way.
I’ve read a number of comments like yours and have always been curious about this sentiment.
I feel similarly iffy about the whole process. Despite that, I can’t think of a viable alternative at this point in time that wouldn’t lead to a disastrous result.
I genuinely want to know: if he does step down and give way to another candidate, who do you have in mind? Is it one person? Is it multiple? Or are we just hoping that if he steps down, a magical better candidate will show up?
Harris, Newsom, and Whitmer would probably be my top 3 picks for viability. Of those three, I think Whitmer would be my favorite choice, but I think Newsom would be the most pragmatic choice (and to be clear, there is a LOT I don’t like about Newsom, despite the fact that I align with him on a decent number of issues) in the context of electability (white, male, a touch religious but not overly so, charismatic, great public speaker). I think Harris is uninspiring and the wrong choice for a TON of reasons, but the establishment will probably stick with her if they are somehow forced to not go with Biden simply because she’s currently VP.
But, you know, that’s what primaries are supposed to be. We’re not really supposed to have the DNC essentially just playing kingmaker and doing cloak and dagger shit behind the scenes so their Chosen One ends up guaranteed to clinch the nomination. Unfortunately, the DNC is basically run by corporatist neoliberals at this point, so they aren’t interested in doing that… and they’re also unwilling to admit that such attitudes are precisely how we got here in the first fucking place.
We got Trump because “it was her turn”. And I will NEVER fucking forgive Hillary for that. It’s abundantly clear that the “adults in the room” at the DNC have no fucking idea what they’re doing.
Yeah, the best case scenario was Biden not running for 2024 from the beginning so we could have proper primaries, and align behind the winner. That’s how it should have been handled.
But it’s too late. None of the candidates you mentioned are strong enough to rally behind this late in the race. Each state would need to figure out a makeshift primary and then align, or DNC would have to choose, which would make it Harris by default. It would be an absolute disaster.
I mean… you and I can armchair general the situation until we’re blue in the face, but the fact remains that the debate and his subsequent interview last Friday (that was supposed to allay concerns, but ended up stoking them - albeit, for me at least, in a different direction) have made not only random joes like me lose confidence in his ability to pull out a win in November, but sitting legislators, party insiders, and the donor class as well. Biden and his campaign are handling this whole thing like rank amateurs and imbeciles, and I’m furious about it because I understand exactly what the implications are if we fail to stop the fascists from winning the election… and neither Biden nor his campaign seem to be taking that as seriously as it needs to be taken.
Would all those guys lose to Trump? Probably. Will Biden lose to Trump? Definitely. I’ll take long odds over no odds.
No one polls better what are you smoking???
The real reason why no one polls better is that everyone else is a hypothetical right now Even if you phrase the poll as “If Biden backs out, and is replaced by $NAME, will you support $NAME?”, people still have their own preferences and that will make it into the poll. They may be secretly hoping for AOC or Michelle Obama or Beyoncé, and say “No” because of that.
But after Biden leaves, if the question is “Now that the candidate is $NAME, will you support $NAME”, I think you will find a lot of support rallying behind that person. Because there’s no choice at that point.
You’re right, but you aren’t acknowledging that the current path we are on is an absolute disaster too.
Bidens poll numbers are 12-15% lower than they were 4 years ago when he barely defeated Trump.
To win now, Biden needs to pull off the biggest comeback in US presidential history. And the political fallout from Biden’s disastrous debate and interview performances hasn’t even settled yet.
With Harris, at least we would have a shot at defeating Trump.
Liberals should be buying guns by the crate right now.
But did he slam them, too?
Yea I’m so elite. That’s why I barely survive paycheck to paycheck, don’t have healthcare, don’t have much with regards to retirement funds, and have to ration my food. And I’m fucking 33.
Fuck you, you elitist old man. Democratic elite are showing their true colors, that they don’t give a fuck about us. We are trying to tell him that he’s going to lose to a fascist with his shitty debate performance, and he’s pretending it didn’t happen and trying to gaslight us. It’s not that we want trump because we don’t. But we are worried that his shit performance will depress the vote into not voting, which is a very real threat and will lead to fascism.
If we fall into fascism it won’t be the voters fault, it’ll be the fault of the elite ruling class. We didn’t have to go in this direction, but we have been going here because Republicans keep going further authoritarian and the Democratic party barely tries to push back.
Whoaaaa…
Are you saying voters aren’t going to respond well to Biden telling them their concerns aren’t valid and no matter what he’s not listen to them?!
Ikr? Crazy concept
Oh don’t forget he believes inflation is made up, but then you see shit like this while looking at all the price increases https://x.com/interneth0f/status/1810667768917660141 And this just plays into the Anti-Biden ads I see on the road. Most of them just basically show clips of Biden saying the economy is great and inflation isn’t real, and asks the viewer do you look at your bills under Biden and think he is just lying to you or is he suffering from dementia?
It’s just such a tone deaf response. I sent an email to my senators and rep asking them to listen to their constituencies regarding their election fears. Not that I think it will do much. But God, waiting around for this old man to lose to Trump while feeling powerless (yes, I’ll still vote) just sucks so much.
Funny how I’m suddenly one of the elites. I guess my opinion doesn’t reach him, so his definition probably stands.
Old Joe’s got everybody mad at him. Elites. Big money donors. Etc. Everybody it seems bur Democratic voters. Polls are the same as before the debate.
Because those votes are mainly votes against Trump and even a trash can would probably pull in similar protest votes. All the more reason the idea of a better candidate that people are even slightly more enthusiastic over could push those numbers up
Yep. I’m voting against Trump, not for Biden. Trump could run against a rock for all I care.
Therein lies the rub. There aren’t any democrats that poll better.
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True. However, national exposure is a large factor and even if there was someone vetted, they still will walk unintroduced on the national stage.
There aren’t any democrats that poll better
Factually untrue.
This has Biden down 6 points. And Kamala only down 2.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html
But your comparing Biden as “the candidate” with the DNC and millions of dollars of campaign against people that haven’t even said they’re willing to run…
Obviously anyone else that becomes the candidate would see a significant boost to their numbers both short and long term.
But others also are polling closer (better) than Biden…
Several other Democrats have been mentioned as potential Biden replacements in recent days, and each trails Trump among registered voters, with their levels of support similar to Biden’s, including California Gov. Gavin Newsom (48% Trump to 43% Newsom), Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg (47% Trump to 43% Buttigieg), and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (47% Trump to 42% Whitmer).
That’s 4 people polling better than Biden in the last couple days…
Weird you haven’t seen it yet.
You realize the Venn diagram of “Candidates the DNC financiers support” and “Candidates that would get more support than Joe Biden” doesn’t actually overlap, right?
If campaign financing is the primary consideration then we deserve the shit storm that’s coming.
The press constantly talks about the so-called “money primary.” No Dem has ever objected to such phrasing.
The money primary is the actual primary in our system of governance.
We the plebs only get to pick one of the pre-selected billionaire champions.
Yeah.
The vast majority willing to vote for Biden, would vote “blue no matter who”.
Which means logically, switching candidates is the smartest plan if all that matters is stopping trump.
But a very small, very vocal group of Biden voters (and even Biden) seem to be lying about what’s most important. I still can’t believe Biden really said he wouldn’t care if he lost.
If they can’t get Biden. A Republican is their second pick.
They just won’t admit it.
But it’s the only logical reason people would be insisting it has to be Biden. Just like Joe, they don’t care if trump wins.
Personally i think they’re just as scared as we are. They’re just too fucking old to have a realistic picture of the political landscape. Gen X is going to get us all killed.
Bruh, gen X isn’t in charge of shit…
You know Biden and a lot of party leaders are still the generation ahead of Baby Boomers, right?
The youngest boomers are 60, how many party leaders calling the shots are significantly under 60?
The party leaders aren’t the ones preventing a move on Biden. Basic support for Biden is tantamount to no action at this point but they are generally taking a wait and see approach. Im mostly taking about the political influencers telling you not to believe your eyes and ears.
Any candidate but Harris would not have access to the money already raised.
Historically, the candidate who raises the most money wins (ignoring 2016).
Meaning the only option the democrats have is to put Harris at the top of the ticket.
What the fuck are you talking about? You just decided to lie like that? That’s wild
What did they lie about?
Ouch. I typed up a whole reply to them but apparently never sent it and now it’s gone. Sigh. Oh well. I’ll reply to them next
My criticism was about their claim that only Harris could use the campaign money. It’s ridiculous to think that they wouldn’t support the DNC’s candidate. Besides that, there are tons PACs that can use the money they’ve received from donors for basically whatever they want.
The reply was maybe a bit harsh, in hindsight, but I keep seeing that parroted around like it’s undoubtedly true. It’s clearly just being repeated and not said with any significant critical thought. I mean, if we had a brokered convention it would be all hands on deck at the DNC.
? What is this in reference to?
My bad, I typed up a whole response to you but apparently never sent it and now it’s gone. Here’s a brief reply
My criticism was about the claim that only Harris could use the campaign money. It’s ridiculous to think they wouldn’t support the DNC’s candidate. Besides that, there are tons PACs that can use the money they’ve received from donors for basically whatever they want.
From what I just read yesterday, the majority of money was donated to the Biden/Harris campaign, not the DNC. Harris has to be on the ticket for all of that money to follow through, otherwise you are looking at a very small percentage of money transferring.
For instance, when Sanders dropped out, none of the money he raised automatically went to Clinton or Biden. Campaigns still have to follow campaign contribution laws when they donate to others.
If Biden drops out (I am leading toward he shouldn’t but fully side with the argument that he should if we lived in a perfect world), Harris has to be on the ticket or Trump is almost certainly the victor based off history alone.
Polls were not good before the debate. Maybe it’s too early to say what the effect will be but here’s the second report I’ve seen saying it’s getting worse.
Old Joe’s got everybody mad at him. Elites. Big money donors. Etc.
To be fair, having those particular groups mad at you should be considered a good thing.
But it’s the opposite of what’s happening…
Can you name a single party leader or billionaire who has stopped supporting Biden this election?
Like, I know some party members and some donors have…
But no party leaders have said he needs to step down, and while some donors have, they’re relatively tiny compared to the actual big money donors.
Biden’s billionaires probably want to replace him with an even more unhinged capitalist who can lie his ass off to the plebs. Who could that be? Uh-huh! It’d be Gavin Newsom!
What are you talking about, before the debate he was even now he’s down by 2 points and his approval rating is hitting new lows. For context he was up by 8 points this time last cycle to win a close election in November. Joe is falling behind and people don’t like him, ignoring people’s dislike for a candidate is how we lost 2016.
The polls are worse, by a lot. He is absolutely sinking and not coming back.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/poll-debate-biden-trump.html
The problem is that plenty of non-elites also want him to exit the race; they just don’t have the option of urging him to do it.
LOL, the term “elite/elitism” has lost all meaning.
Clearly he’s got aides helping him do most stuff. That’s not unheard of for any political official, but I imagine he’s just going along with it like Reagan at the end of his term.
When he’s by himself on a debate podium, you can see he’s not doing great.
However, Trump is worse. They’re two old men and you can see Biden is a calm older man slowly slipping. Trump is mad at everyone and everything, refuses help, and requires everyone to be a sycophant around him to placate his ego. The only way people get what they want out of him is to steer the bull in the direction of the China shop they want destroyed. He’s an old man yelling at the TV, and we all have to hear him.
That said, one of them can, will, and has done more damage than the other. That’s why I’d vote for Biden. The meme of “live Biden > dead Biden > dead Trump > live Trump” comes to mind.
meme of “live Biden > dead Biden > dead Trump > live Trump” comes to mind
Those aren’t the only four options…
If the DNC Americaned up and booted Biden, they can nominate a live and competent person, who would easily win by simply not being trump AND not being Biden.
Ok, who?
They’d need name recognition, money, and influence to catch up. Who do you think would be a good pick that seems interested in the job?
They’d need name recognition, money, and influence to catch up
They’d be a household name in 48 hours max.
Unless Biden acts like a spoiled toddler, he’d hand over every penny. Even if he didn’t, most is in the BVF which is mostly controlled by the DNC. Lots of people, big and small, would donate to stop trump, that’s where a lot of Biden’s money is already coming from. Not being trump.
What influence is needed?
They have a pulse and arent named trump or Biden… That’s enough these days
Who do you think would be a good pick that seems interested in the job?
Anyone besides Hillary Clinton should be able to pull it off.
But I don’t see the DNC appointing anyone but Kamala.
I didn’t downvote you, but thanks for downvoting me and not answering the question.
But I don’t see the DNC appointing anyone but Kamala.
And I downvoted you because that question has been asked so many times, it doesn’t contribute to any discussion.
I don’t know why people care about votes tho.
Look at me, I’m an Elite! All this time I thought I was just some broke ass white boy.
Ah, yes, the elites, like -checks notes- 75% of the country.
75% of the country
Or, 25% of voters who aren’t stooges for a party that wants to buy yachts while the people starve.
…what?
I don’t care if he’s comatose and braindead by election day, I’m still voting for him if he’s on the ballot.
I’m with Joe Fucking Biden
I’m with Hunter Biden. Dude straight up got a lap dance while smoking crack and listening to Fleet Foxes. We need to bring the radness back to the Whitehouse.
Well Joe’s definitely ficking over biden
Alright they have to stop using “Biden blasts” in article titles XD.
He needs to fuck off. I’ll vote for literally any D. But he’ll lose us the Republic.
