• @Holyginz
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    31329 days ago

    Honestly, I agree men’s issues do need to be seriously discussed, but it’s wrong to hijack discussion about women’s issues to talk about men’s issues. The reverse is also true.

    • @ThatWeirdGuy1001
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      11829 days ago

      I’ve actually seen the opposite happen more often than the former. Both online and irl. A guy starts complaining about things and a cacophony of women show up to tell him how he’ll never understand what it’s like to be a woman.

      Whenever I do see the opposite and when the guy interjects all that’s said is “there’s a time and a place to talk about men’s issues” but like when is it then?

      • @[email protected]
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        6529 days ago

        Yeah I really don’t see the situation in the comic often at all. I won’t say it doesn’t happen, but I’ve personally witnessed way more of this reactionary diversion when men are discussing their unique issues.

        • _NoName_
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          29 days ago

          I think it is most often when these conversations happen online that vocal reactionaries try to derail the conversation. More often than not, local and private dialogues I’ve been apart of and around tend to be more civil. In fact, both men and women seem to be on the same side when they voice their issues to each other face-to-face. I think cameras can also sour the situation, since it can put people on edge to be recorded.

          At the same time, while there is a massive amount of people who get behind feminist movements and those who back counter-feminist movements, there is very few of those same counter-feminists who seem to actually ever participate in man wellbeing support infrastructure, hence why that infrastructure does not materialize. It seems that a good portion of folks only seem to pipe up as a direct counter to women trying to advocate for themselves, and then are silent and frugal when men are trying to advocate for themselves non-adversarily. I’d argue there are many people who are trying to attack both as they try to uphold the status quo.

          We saw this reactionary behavior against feminist advocacy during Gamergate, as a great example - specifically when talking about the events related to Anita Sarkeesian’s ‘Tropes vs Women in Video games’. I went back and watched that series, and overall the points are fair criticisms of videogame writing (and honestly tropes in media in general). I don’t think that anything Anita pointed out was even that vilifying either. The overall response, however, was very toxic and dismissive, and was paired with a harassment campaign.

          We saw a similar backlash from a vocal minority for most subsequent feminist actions surrounding cases of sexual abuse such as “Me Too” being countered by protests such as the “HimToo” movement. There’s no reason both these conversations couldn’t happen but it always seems that they only ever show up at the same time, and try to steal each others thunder.

          We could also talk about the Depp v Heard court case, which had extreme levels of toxicity across the board, with large portions of folks on either side choosing to view one side as exclusively as a lying abuser and the other as completely exalted of any blame when what was being shown was an relationship full of mutual toxicity.

      • @UsernameHere
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        3029 days ago

        Both scenarios are possible and it is shitty to use whataboutism in both scenarios.

        Whenever I do see the opposite and when the guy interjects all that’s said is “there’s a time and a place to talk about men’s issues” but like when is it then?

        When it’s not being used as a whataboutism.

        • snooggums
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          29 days ago

          When it’s not being used as a whataboutism.

          Ever seen a discussion about men complaining that they are assumed to be a threat just for being male get derailed by comments that it isn’t a problem worth complaining about compared to women’s issues? Or when the topic of how sexual abuse of boys is extremely common gets derailed as not really being an issue and dismissed by crime stats that often exclude non-penatrating sexual assaults?

          Yes it sucks when whataboutism is used to dismiss complaints, but it is also frustrating that the same whataboutism is used to silence discussion that is about the issues that men face.

          • @UsernameHere
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            29 days ago

            Ever seen a discussion about men complaining that they are assumed to be a threat just for being male get derailed by comments that it isn’t a problem worth complaining about compared to women’s issues?

            No I haven’t ever seen that. But that would be an example of whataboutism so pretty shitty thing to say.

            Or when the topic of how sexual abuse of boys is extremely common gets derailed as not really being an issue and dismissed by crime stats that often exclude non-penatrating sexual assaults?

            No I haven’t ever seen thing either but again that is dismissive and a terrible way to invalidate a legitimate problem.

            Yes it sucks when whataboutism is used to dismiss complaints, but it is also frustrating that the same whataboutism is used to silence discussion that is about the issues that men face.

            So you feel whataboutism/dismissive responses are only used against men? Or do you agree that that is not a good way to respond to legitimate issues regardless of gender?

            • snooggums
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              2129 days ago

              So feel whataboutism/dismissive responses are only used against men? Or do you agree that that is not a good way to respond to legitimate issues regardless of gender?

              I am saying whataboutism is to commonly used to dismiss both men’s and women’s issues and it sucks in both cases.

            • Promethiel
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              1229 days ago

              So you feel whataboutism/dismissive responses are only used against men? Or do you agree that that is not a good way to respond to legitimate issues regardless of gender?

              They’re agreeing with you it seems to me, and sharing their anecdotes that despite that reality which they agree with, let me re-emphasize that, despite that reality (that using one gender’s struggles to whatabout another’s is considered both ineffective and borders on conflict-seeking, inherently), that in their experience, they have seen the same the same whatabout tactics used to dismantle discussion when a “male centric” issue is the discussion catalyst, as when it’s a “female centric” issue originating the discourse.

              I can’t speak for that other commenter to your follow up question though, so I’ll answer it for myself: I do not feel that whataboutism/dismissive responses are only used against men, no.

              As a matter of fact, I feel that they’re employed more often to stiffle discussions on “woman centric” concerns precisely because of how little Men’s issues are discussed, and the reason for both is the same. That this is a side effect of the patriarchal systems in place doesn’t absolve either side from the requirement to be genuine if genuine discourse is sought, though.

              I have seen what the commenter is mentioning and right here on Lemmy to boot. Because whether male or female, a whatabout is an easy rhetorical blanket to reach for, and many do.

              I believe that both genders (including and specially men, who must own up to the fact that collectively we’re the gender with the greater frequency of offense against other genders if we’re ever going to get to addressing why it’s the same systemic patriarchal roots binding women’s rights that choke out the existence of men’s rights issues) have to be willing to communicate.

              Women in aggregate are crying to be heard, but “TooManyMen” aren’t listening that they’re (women) speaking for them both too, and I feel those men who are able to hear some of that message need to help out in stopping the whataboutism wall in their brothers before they get going…

              The same way that I believe there’s women who need to do the same for many of their sisters in the public square.

              Divided is how we’ve gotten to this, unapologetically more viscerally dangerous for womanhood world that pretty much always has been, but I feel that it is united that we’ll reach any dreams of equity or widespread understanding between the genders, if we ever will.

              In short, I agree “that that [whataboutism tainting discourse] is not a good way to respond to legitimate issues regardless of gender”, but the mere axiomatic observation falls short of the next step:

              Both sides need to acknowledge and give each other the room to voice out their feelings, views, ideas, etc, genuinely (trolls and agitators need not be entertained) while still keeping an eye for the possibility that unity lies not in knowing the correct answer but in the shared questioning.

              Fellas let’s do (and encourage our brothers to) better whether we think it’s fair or not, and ladies, understand (and share with the sisters who it’s safe to) that a hypocrite and someone whose barriers are breaking will appear briefly as the same before change is undergone.

              • @[email protected]
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                Women in aggregate are crying to be heard, but “TooManyMen” aren’t listening that they’re (women) speaking for them both too…

                I’m one of those “TooManyAllMen.” My problem isn’t women speaking about womens issues, my problem is when they do so with signs like we recently had an uproar about here on lemmy, signs that say stuff like “Not all men but always a man.” To me that sign says “Fine, you bitch when we say every one of you does it? Here, not all of you do it, but no women do it ever, no man or boy has ever been raped by a woman.” When I see some obvious bullshit like that, as a male rape victim of two different women, I’m calling it out. It is what it is.

                Don’t want me to call out obvious bullshit? Find better slogans than “All men™” “Not all men but always a man,” or the all too common comment which graced that thread as usual when these things are discussed: “Men are trash.” If I said “All women” do goddamn anything someone would be right here to tell me I’m a wrong incelbigot, if I said “women are trash” I might get whole ass instance banned, but when the turn tables all of a sudden it’s “yaaasssss qween girlboss.”

                Why must we exclude victims, even lumping them in as de facto aggressors by gender? Why can’t it be all victims vs all abusers? The men are in aggregate crying to be heard too, but we’re told we need to “let women speak,” at best. At least that’s better than “You must’ve enjoyed it because of your body’s natural uncontrollable biological responses, you’re a gay pussy, she’s hot stop complaining,” or any of the other myriad of dismissals I’ve been told personally as have most male victims.

      • @[email protected]
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        -629 days ago

        I don’t think I’ve ever seen the opposite, where the dude is holding a reasonable opinion or complaint.

        Meanwhile this comment section is an example of the comic itself

      • @gibmiser
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        -829 days ago

        Go start your own thread then if it’s important to you. That’s the whole point, don’t hijack the conversation. Sucks when it happens to you, don’t do it to other people as revenge.

      • @[email protected]
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        -829 days ago

        there’s a time and a place to talk about men’s issues" but like when is it then?

        Not when women are discussing theirs. It’s that simple.

      • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)
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        29 days ago

        Man just going for irony right away, eh?

        Whenever I do see the opposite and when the guy interjects all that’s said is “there’s a time and a place to talk about men’s issues” but like when is it then?

        Probably not in the thread with the comic about womens issues being talked over by men, like you’re doing now, would be a good choice.

        EDIT: I’ll eat the downvotes. Just wanted to say how embarrassing it is to be a man and hear ‘but what about men’s issues?’ used in a non-ironic way. Sorry ladies, you don’t deserve this crap. Also thanks for being the bulwark against fascism.

          • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)
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            -529 days ago

            There was a wave of, likely from reddit, ‘mens rights’ users who came over and this happens all of the time now. Any time a woman mentions issues with a man, it’s “YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT” as if the things can’t both exist.

            I mean look what they’re upvoting: ‘I saw a feminist say she doesn’t care about guys, I super swear guys!’

            It’s just fucking embarrassing how childish they are. Not even childish, because children can learn empathy. It’s as if they quite literally have zero empathy, and can only engage in sympathy with someone who is somehow similar to them. Like should I just post this comic here, the one we all read, as a reply to these people?

            Irony is completely lost upon them.

              • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)
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                -228 days ago

                And they’ll just downvote anything you say, because you’re the bad guy now, regardless of what you’re talking about.

                I’m just curious what it must be like to be so fragile. It’s like any time they aren’t being directly supported they fall apart and lash out at everyone around them. The hardest part is watching women calmly wait out the guys’ tantrum, then try to carefully explain to him (and in a way that makes him Feel Like A Man still, ever holding his hand emotionally) what is happening and they will still freak out.

                It really is just embarrassing.

    • @[email protected]
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      8129 days ago

      I agree with this and I’d also add that bringing up men’s issues to try to silence discussion of women’s issues then harms men as well because people associate discussion of men’s issues with that type of shit behaviour.

      • @[email protected]
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        2129 days ago

        While I agree with this sentiment, IME it is very rarely intended to silence discussion of women’s issues, and is usually related to hyperbolic statements like “men are trash” or protest signs like “not all men but always a man” (both from a lemmy post I partook in “attempting to silence” last month.) Imo it’s reasonable to take offense, disagree, and express both of those feelings wherever I see it to call it out. I am not trying to silence women, I just want them to treat me with the same respect I treat them, if they don’t want me to say “all women are trash” because two women have literally raped me (except for the definition of rape in my area calls for penetration specifically, so legally forcing me to have sex with them was at most “sexual assault,” which while I’m mentioning it fuck that bullshit, but I digress), then they shouldn’t get to call me trash because someone who is not me, I’m not friends with, and who I’ve never even met, raped them either. I, as a male rape victim, am expected to be able to separate “those women” from “all women” lest I be an “incel” (though, by the definition of incel I think being raped twice negates that alone, yet they still call you one for being a victim and mad about being lumped in with the aggressors for the crime of having the same genitals as their aggressor), and all I’m asking for is the same in return. We can stand with victims and against abusers, it doesn’t have to be male victims vs woman victims vs abusers battle royale.

        /rant.

        Sorry, I happen to care about this topic a lot, being personally effected and all lol.

        • _NoName_
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          I understand the anger at the statements. They are visceral and immediately labelling. I’ve found that it is good to understand these taglines as simplified mantras, such as “don’t talk to the police”. It is meant as a heuristic for women’s safety, and so long as you understand that you yourself aren’t dangerous, the tagline does not apply to you. It also lets you know exactly where women are coming from: why they only use the restroom in groups, why they aren’t going to give you an outright answer most of the time, and why they will keep their distance until they know you.

          I’d argue that these behaviors should not be gender-coded and should be practiced by both men and women, and that vilification of violent outbursts , and similar sexist tropes, should also not only apply to men. It is explicitly sexism which puts this barrier up, where women being violent is downplayed, and men who use women’s playbooks are viewed as less masculine.

          These are issues of the same coin, which is a divide created by both genders applying different stereotypes to one another and then operating based on those stereotypes

          • @[email protected]
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            428 days ago

            I find it’s also helpful to look at such “taglines” for what they are, generalizations. It just so happens that when we generalize about women it’s sexist, when we generalize about races it’s racist, and when we generalize about men it’s “just a tagline.” I know men aren’t supposed to admit we have feelings or else we’re weak, but we do. I’ve been cheated on 3 times and raped twice, all 5 were by different women, does that give me licence to generalize “create taglines” like “Women are trash?” Hell, I can’t even use the word “female” to the degree where I sometimes write “males… and women…” instead, lest I be crucified as a pariah, but if I call out “Men are trash,” literally, I’m still seen as in the wrong.

            No. Something’s gotta give, can’t have it both ways. Either women’s “taglines” are bad too or men can also generalize about women. Personally I lean towards “generalizations are stupid, tagline or not, and basically by using them you hurt yourself (your movement) in your confusion like a goddamn magikarp.”

    • @[email protected]
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      4229 days ago

      Tbf, the times I usually see it “hijacked” it’s because of signs like “not all men but always a man” completely pretending that male rape victims don’t exist, or comments like “men are trash” under the post. If I ever in my life saw a post about male victims that said “women are trash” or had comparable signs and women complained, I would see that as totally justified.

      • @[email protected]
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        1429 days ago

        Rage bait. These posts aren’t created to do anything other than get people mad at each other.

      • @hydrospanner
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        729 days ago

        There’s also plenty of room in there for less malicious situations as well (not that the malicious ones you speak of aren’t happening…they are…but there’s other cases as well).

        I think a lot of the problems arise based on differing expectations, and ideas about what a “conversation” entails.

        Too often, it seems like a conversation means “let me voice my grievances, assign blame, and explain my ideas about why it’s like that and what should be done…and didn’t you dare to disagree with me or question anything or point out flaws in my logic, because this is my space!”

        And hey, you’re free to do that…but that ain’t a conversation. Conversation means you don’t get to dictate the terms completely to everyone else.

        I feel like those who do this do know, deep down, that they don’t want a conversation at all… but “everyone shut up, let me say my thing, then agree with me” tends to draw in a smaller audience. You might be right, you might be wrong, but, “Listen to me and don’t say anything I don’t like.” isn’t a conversation.

    • @FMT99
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      2729 days ago

      Twitter normalized of extremely simplistic expression of complicated issues which leads to all kinds of kneejerk reactions. Some men misinterpret whatever complaint as being about them and turn defensive, and of course the most aggressive of those voices are amplified by social media. The inflammatory comments beget more inflammatory comments, reasonable people quickly exit the space and this is what you end up with.

      I firmly believe it’s social media that’s to blame.

      • @Feathercrown
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        1929 days ago

        Some men misinterpret whatever complaint as being about them

        I think that’s reasonable if the complaint is about men in general, or specifically calls out all men.

      • @[email protected]
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        1029 days ago

        For sure social medias are a big part of it.

        I understand that “all men are trash” and the likes are generalizations about men, not me specifically. But when you see these lines make rounds and rounds again, it can makes you question yourself even if you’ve done nothing wrong. And that’s a big hit to self-esteem and anxiety.

    • @[email protected]
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      1629 days ago

      I’d like to, whenever possible, move away from women’s issues or men’s issues towards people’s issues.

      • @Feathercrown
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        1629 days ago

        It’s a good thing to do that, but some issues really are heavily affected by gender

        • _NoName_
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          429 days ago

          That is very true. Often, it is reactionaries coming in trying to deny the existence of those issues blocking progress, not advocates for either. There are many actively trying to stop the conversation, and those very same individuals actively pose as ‘advocates’ while spitting vitriol. “There’s nothing wrong with how you act, it’s all just those progressives faults! No, you don’t need any help, it’s all fake!” This is explicitly just to shut the conversation down and strengthen the divide between gender advocates.

    • @[email protected]
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      329 days ago

      That’s the problem… When is it time to talk about men’s issues? Specifically, in a group that doesn’t listen to Peterson and Andrew Tate

      I agree with what you said, but I think the solution is to talk about everyone’s issues instead of men’s issues. Men’s issues aren’t about the men, they’re about how men relate to others.

      Women’s issues should have their place, but men don’t need the same thing… Instead they need everyone to show up and talk about their own issues

      • @HowManyNimons
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        228 days ago

        Bring it up in a space, any space, that isn’t there for the purpose of talking about women’s issues. Make a community now. Write in it.

          • @HowManyNimons
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            228 days ago

            That’s the problem. Some folks managed to create wholesome men’s subreddits back in the day. Don’t know how they’re faring now.

        • @[email protected]
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          128 days ago

          And !comicstrips is a space that is here for the express purpose of talking about women’s issues then? Or do you also believe this should be relegated to !feminists, too?

          • @HowManyNimons
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            127 days ago

            No and no. We’re talking about issues raised by the comic here. Some men’s, some are women’s.

      • @Ensign_Crab
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        -228 days ago

        That’s the problem… When is it time to talk about men’s issues? Specifically, in a group that doesn’t listen to Peterson and Andrew Tate

        You can start a conversation.

        • @[email protected]
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          528 days ago

          Ok…I did. That’s what I just did. You were there for it

          What now? I pointed out the problem, I can tell you the answer at the end of the conversation. The answer is third places.

          How do we get there?

          • @Ensign_Crab
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            -428 days ago

            Ok…I did. That’s what I just did. You were there for it

            There’s a difference between starting a conversation and hijacking an existing one.

            • @[email protected]
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              428 days ago

              No, there’s not.

              This is not a Ted talk or a Wendy’s, this is an entirely related post on social media. This is an appropriate place to bring up these ideas

    • _NoName_
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      This is potentially gender construct and sexism getting directly in the way of advocacy against real issues. Women start a protest advocating against a very real issue they face, by women for women, and it is spun as a direct attack on men. Same thing happens for men’s advocacy.

      “…For the Master’s tool will never dismantle the master’s house. They may allow us temporarily to beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change. And this fact is only threatening to those women who still define the master’s house as their only source of support…” - Audre Large, in “Master’s Tools Will Never Take Down the Master’s House”

      I don’t think most would blame many women for the practices they do in public to stay safe, despite the behavior explicitly being sexist. This is because we understand that in absence of these kinds of behaviors, women do actually get prayed upon, most often by men. It’s the reality of a dangerous world. however, we get angry when the statements and phrases used to justify these behaviors are said aloud.

      What we fail to acknowledge is that that same kind of victimization is possible to a guy. Most guys would find the idea of deliberately using the bathroom at the same time as their friend as weird, possibly even girly. Machismo stereotypes and trying to conform to manliness actively makes men more vulnerable .

      We also downplay women being violent, yet again a gender stereotype which not only lets women get physical in public, but actually also makes women easier to dismiss when they’re angry and yelling. This not only lets women get away with toxic behavior, but robs them of being taken seriously at other times.

      These are both issues caused by gender, which is also actively defining how advocacy happens and creates an arbitrary divide.

      • @[email protected]
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        729 days ago

        I liked this comment. You wrote with the nuance and balance that I strive for. Thanks for sharing

    • @WrenFeathers
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      629 days ago

      Outrage is the new thing. Many people aren’t happy or able to feel like their life is affirmed without being angry with someone or at something and it’s vital to their ideology to impose their values on others.

      Non compliance with their demands is non optional.

    • @Mango
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      628 days ago

      I would like my own planet.

        • @Mango
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          328 days ago

          Oh niiice. Do they have any customer reviews?

          • Ohbs
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            328 days ago

            Yes: stay away and do not join. Seek real progress and learning outside of avoidance, superstition, and bias.

            Sincerely,

            an adult on an ongoing journey to deconstruct different traumas from being raised in said high-demand cult.

            (Also, I can confirm the promise of a planet was canon, and infinitely more than just a single planet. But they recently decided to downplay that part of the doctrine, and some members now deny that there was ever a promise of achieving godhood. The cult always has a justification, and most members are more than satisfied with mental gymnastics.)

            • @Mango
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              128 days ago

              But do they have DRM?

        • Ohbs
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          328 days ago

          Yes and no. It was.

    • Wild Bill
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      529 days ago

      Because humans like to make up categories which naturally cause inequality of some kind. I don’t want this but it’s the way it is and to pretend otherwise is ignorant and silly.

    • @UnderpantsWeevil
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      229 days ago

      Sometimes certain subsets of the planet have problems particular to their region, culture, or cohort.

      Telling a person wandering through the desert “I also get thirsty” maybe deflects from the issue at hand.

      • @hydrospanner
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        229 days ago

        Telling a person wandering through the desert “I also get thirsty” maybe deflects from the issue at hand.

        Or… That may be a show of support, in sharing of a common burden, a message of, “You are not alone in this struggle.”

        Rather than always seeing it as a negative, maybe allow for the possibility that it’s coming from a different place.

        Honestly, I feel like this whole sentiment of, “Don’t attempt to bring any context into a conversation. Only stick strictly to what one person has decided to talk about.” is not only counterproductive in that moment, but also in the medium and long term has a marked effect in shutting down future conversations about difficult and uncomfortable topics.

        I mean, how many times does a person get into a conversation that starts with, “Can we talk about X?” or “Let’s have an open, honest discussion about Y?”…only to add something to that conversation and be told, “No, you’re wrong for bringing that up. We’re only talking about X and why it’s the worst thing ever.”… before they get to the point where the next time someone says, “Can we talk about Z?” they just say, “No, sorry. Not interested.”?

  • @PieMePlenty
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    7428 days ago

    I feel like men do have it tough and when men start talking about it, they get shutdown and told to be a man. Boys dont cry afterall. So some men may feel its unfair when women speak up and are heard. So they want to make it about them. In the comic, just as the men are dismissive of woman problems, she is dismissive of mens problems. Instead of attacking an unfair weath class system, we bicker about shupid shit like men vs women. Its not race, gender or sexuality we should be discussing. Its social, weath classes.

    • @HowManyNimons
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      The time to talk about men’s problems is any time you like, except when a woman has just started talking about women’s problems. If you redirect a conversation about women’s problems, you’re telling the women that you don’t care about their problems. If that’s the case, fine. Just don’t contribute, and let people who want to discuss the women’s problems do that. Start another conversation about men’s problems elsewhere.

        • @HowManyNimons
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          828 days ago

          I guess so. Like most whataboutism it’s a deflection for the sake of self- preservation. The truth is that there are specific problems with the way society treats women, and recognising that is disruptive and possibly painful.

          The problem is that it’s so easy to see it as a mechanism to maintain the status quo. Which it so often is. Even when men call for change, it’s quite often “women should behave differently” rather than “everyone needs to reflect on their behaviour and start making changes for the better.”

        • @HowManyNimons
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          1628 days ago

          I think people do care about men’s problems, but too often it just comes out as “the problem is toxic masculinity”.

          Fundamentally yes that is a major problem, and we need to find a better identity that men can subscribe to. But it’s like taking a book and just showing people the last page: it seems like irrelevant nonsense without the preceding understanding.

          If we set up a place where we listened to each other, and to the feedback of women, with the intent of forging a new and more functional form of masculinity, I for one would be very interested indeed.

          • macrocarpa
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            228 days ago

            What do you personally see as male problems? Without googling - just off the top of your head. Im intrigued as to what gets broadcast.

            Off the top of my head for women - safety (both physical and psychological), financial independence, equality of opportunity, disparate domestic and emotional load, sexual objectification, gender pay disparity (overall), representation.

            I won’t say reproductive rights because I don’t live in the US, and while body image is a problem, I think its also impacting a lot of young men too.

            • @HowManyNimons
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              28 days ago

              Broadcast to whom? I’m a man too, as it happens.

              I think we have a lot of problems with mood regulation and emotional control of ourselves. We have problems with empathy, both experiencing it and expressing it. We have problems with sharing power. We have problems with responsibility: taking either too much of it or not enough. We have problems with openness, examining our beliefs, thoughts and emotions, especially with the help of others. We have problems with ambition and identity, aiming for things that are unrealistic or unhealthy, not clearly knowing what successful masculinity looks like in 2024. We have problems with body image, in novel and unexamined ways compared with women: there is absolutely no such thing as male body positivity. We have problems making friends and finding a partner. We have problems concentrating at school. Not all of us have all these problems, but I think there’s a lot in this list that a lot of men will identify with if they’re being honest.

              • @Adalast
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                928 days ago

                Honestly, that is a good list of the internal struggles, though everything she had said to which you were replying were external pressures. I agree wholeheartedly with your list, but I feel we need to also represent the externalities we face as well.

                I can only speak for myself and from a neurodivergent US perspective. I see a society which still applies enormous pressure on men to be the “provider” in a system which as made being a sole provider nearly impossible. A society which ties our worth and value as a human being to what we can provide, primarily, for employers, then secondarily to loved ones. We are expected to sacrifice our health, both mental and physical, to work in often abusive or untenable positions from which we see no escape becacusr to escape is to fail our family. We are told continuously that our only purpose in existence is to sacrifice, and if we try to take some space for ourselves when WE need it, we are selfish, inconvenient, or heartless and abusive.

                To expand on HowManyNimons point about making friends and finding a partner, we are still expected, on the whole, to be the instigators of romantic relationships. To place ourselves in the position of being vulnerable, then rejected, sometimes with damaging savagery, repeatedly for a good chunk of our adolescent and post-adolescent years. As to the friendship relationships, as we get older and our focus is mandated by society to be focused on ever increasing sacrifice, we see the potential pools of friendships shrink. We are so stressed from work, money, and family that the idea of having to put in extra effort for finding and developing new friendships just feels Sisyphean. We end up in a negative feedback loop of social isolation which leads to even further mental dysfunction.

                Again, this is my self assessment and social observation. I suffer all of this, and more, daily. My family is very worried about me because it has gotten so bad for me that it is like I have forgotten what happiness and contentment feel like.

    • JackbyDev
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      4128 days ago

      she is dismissive of mens problems.

      Not as presented. She’s being actively interrupted and trying to stay focused on her original topic.

    • @Nuke_the_whales
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      1328 days ago

      You still hear “man up” a lot and it’s fucked up.

  • @houstoneulers
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    29 days ago

    Ppl that make these kinds of comics clearly do not socialize with others irl. This only happens online with other trolls, from everywhere on the spectrum of whatever group. But irl, most people are pretty decent.

    • Dragon Rider (drag)
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      3829 days ago

      The internet is part of real life. Internet trolls are real people behind their screens, and they live somewhere. Maybe they live far away from you and near this artist.

      • @HowManyNimons
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        1528 days ago

        If you’re a digital artist, your domain is the internet. Your audience is the internet. Your medium is the internet. In that case, you’ll write about the internet.

      • @[email protected]
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        529 days ago

        Maybe they also don’t socialize because they never actually go out either. Just a bunch of asocials sitting in their respective moms basement trolling away.

        • Dragon Rider (drag)
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          1129 days ago

          Maybe the artist is a mum with a troll in her basement. Or maybe she has a shithead cousin who says this garbage at family reunions.

      • Ohbs
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        428 days ago

        I agree. There is an added layer of depersonalization, but it’s still real life, just like driving in traffic. The same people who would be courteous in person could be cutting you off and being freely offensive on the road. The interactions are no less real, maybe even more real than some situations that prescribe some distancing, like a job interview or talking to a coworker, depending on how close you are.

      • @houstoneulers
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        -929 days ago

        The vast majority of ppl are decent. If others can’t find them, that’s a them problem.

        • @[email protected]
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          128 days ago

          I’m kinda with you on this. People are complex and for the most of their time they behave okaish.

        • Dragon Rider (drag)
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          -629 days ago

          No. Most people drive cars, despite the fact that they know cars are destroying all life on earth. Most people are capable of rationalising their behaviour to remove culpability for the consequences of their actions. Most people are evil, in the same kind of banal way that most people in Nazi Germany accepted the new way of doing things and didn’t fight back, because they felt they had too much to lose from resisting.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem

          • @hightrix
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            28 days ago

            deleted by creator

          • @houstoneulers
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            029 days ago

            Lmao, way to deflect. I didn’t say most ppl aren’t evil (not even addressing that your definition of evil isn’t even universally agreed upon), but I did say most ppl are actually pretty empathetic to the plight of others and thus decent in that regard.

    • @[email protected]
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      428 days ago

      Just like me. Here I am a very toxic one, but in the real world I consider myself a nice person

      • @hightrix
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        -228 days ago

        Isn’t that the whole point of social media? A cathartic outlet that doesn’t actually affect anyone or anything.

  • @[email protected]
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    6429 days ago

    Honestly same thing happens when we talk about men.

    Tons of women coming up, saying “women have it worse” and attempting to minimize the importance if men’s issues.

    Let’s just listen to both sides for once, and make everyone heard. When everyone is given a platform to speak, there’s no need to interrupt each other.